Im pretty sick of failing Dragons End meta

[SlayerXX.7138]

 

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They could simply put the current version of Soo-Won into an instanced fight, similar to Dragonstorm, so that the people who enjoy organizing for it can keep their fun.

The actual open world version could then be adjusted to fit with the vast majority of players, rather than a smaller subset (like it currently is).

That way, Open World players can enjoy it more and organized people don't have to complain about non-participants taking up character space on the map.

What if people still fail it? How low should Anet go? As some Strike playing "elite" is double in worth then an OW player. A sweaty raider probably triple at least. They wont go to the OW version if there is an instanced version. You seem to not realize how a couple of semi competent people carry most OW events. It would take at max 2 weeks till the ow version would be drained of its carries. Then you would have to nerf it into nothingness. 

[mindcircus.1506]

18 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

I add everyone where I have extremely different opinions because I'm interested to see where these opinions formed. What kind of content they play. There's always much more nuance than can be conveyed in a few comments. This is one way to understand some of it. 

Whenever I play with some friends and invite them to my party / squad I get a quick glance on what people in my friend list are doing and get a more complete picture.

Cause that's not super creepy or anything

[Silent.6137]

5 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

There are many players that prefer the anonymity of that and not having to group up, because they know that when they group up usually it means that people will ask them about their build and they're very likely to get kicked for not having a proper meta build.

Asking for builds usually only happens in small groups instances. Even then, it's not a common occurences. What is asked is the roles. For metas like DE, with a squad of 50, the commander will have to be rather egotistical (and have too much time) to demand to ask all for their builds. It might have happened but I've never seen anyone being kicked for reasons like that.

At one point, there were a very few who asked to ping KP or LI, but I doubt they were ever successful, since those have virtually disappeared.

Organized squads are not 1 size fits all. They usually involved asking for a Quick and an Alac for each subs and filling the rest with whatever's there. A very few will start in Arborstone to ensure all in the squad gets on the map. I truly doubt there are any squads who do not use LFGs and/or get players from map to fill up the squad. Some use Discord but even then majority in any of those squads will not be on it.

Seriously, how many guilds are there that are capable of filling a 50-person squad each and every time? Not everyone plays at the same time for even a maxed out guild.

59 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Given that Dragon's End has next to no rewards in the first place, Arenanet might not too add much more to the hypothetical instanced version (if anything at all).

Really? It's a good place to farm, even if you don't do the meta. Isn't that what you do on any other maps? As an example: Farm Train although small in the data set yet, but still consistent.

EDIT: My suggestion for the Dragon's End Pre + Meta is for there to be non-auto-loot chests. At every phases, after killing the Saltspray champions or the Crystal phase, there will be loot chests. You'll still get the same rewards as now but maybe the players will have a different perceptions on how lucrative the map is for farming.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Zok.4956]

6 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

The same people that are complaining now would complain if the meta was an instance. They always complain about everything and they always feel left out. Their real problem is that there is something in the game they don’t like but others do, they can’t stand that  

Why are you playing forum-pvp and attack other players with your ad-hominem "arguments"?

I do remember, right shortly after relase of EoD when the discussions about DE started, that several players suggested that there should be a 50-player instanced version (where you can /gg and try again immediately if you fail) of the DE-fight, as an epic-raid-encounter, for players that like such challenge  (and who maybe think epic=challenging) and an OW version of the DE meta that is easy enough so "ad-hoc" OW map population has a good chance of success if most players know the mechanics (and who maybe  think epic=stunning visuals).

That way, "both groups" would have had an "epic finale that represents a culmination of 10 years of GW2" that they enjoy.

[Gehenna.3625]

54 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Asking for builds usually only happens in small groups instances. Even then, it's not a common occurences. What is asked is the roles. For metas like DE, with a squad of 50, the commander will have to be rather egotistical (and have too much time) to demand to ask all for their builds. It might have happened but I've never seen anyone being kicked for reasons like that.

At one point, there were a very few who asked to ping KP or LI, but I doubt they were ever successful, since those have virtually disappeared.

Organized squads are not 1 size fits all. They usually involved asking for a Quick and an Alac for each subs and filling the rest with whatever's there. A very few will start in Arborstone to ensure all in the squad gets on the map. I truly doubt there are any squads who do not use LFGs and/or get players from map to fill up the squad. Some use Discord but even then majority in any of those squads will not be on it.

Maybe I didn't word that right. It's not about what happens but what people fear or are uncomfortable with, especially after a couple of bad experiences. 

I do get that for some content you need to do this. I mean I raided in SWTOR for years and did Nightmare Mode/Master Mode in there. I knew there had to be requirements for people to join in order to even have a chance of being successful.

I also understand why there is such a need in the DE Meta, because it's more complex and takes a squad that works together and knows what they're doing generally. I also bet you that "quick and alac" are terms that a lot of people will have no idea what you're talking about; a lot of OW players aren't even aware of the roles that exist in group content. 

You see, I've played this game on and off since the start and I only recently, became aware of these roles. I didn't care about the roles because I didn't do group content in this game. But then I started doing some fractals and a few strikes within the last 6 months or so and then I became familiar with some of them. Still not a fan of group content in GW2, but when I do it at least I now know the roles I can play. But before that, all those years I had no idea what alac, quick, hfb, etc. even meant. It was Chinese to me...because I didn't care about what it meant. There are probably still many terms I wouldn't know what they mean. Now, I could've looked it up or asked about it before, but why would I? What would be my motivation? 

You see six months ago I wouldn't have known what you were talking about in this post. 

54 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Seriously, how many guilds are there that are capable of filling a 50-person squad each and every time? Not everyone plays at the same time for even a maxed out guild.

I'm not sure why you say this to me. I think you're responding to someone else here. I certainly never said anything of the kind.

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I also bet you that "quick and alac" are terms that a lot of people will have no idea what you're talking about; a lot of OW players aren't even aware of the roles that exist in group content.

Squads ask for that but as you said, there are many who have no clue about what professions offer which boons. Or if even their main offers that. However, there are usually more than enough who knows who can fill those roles. Even if not, most commander will assign them to subgroups so any splits will have some.

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I'm not sure why you say this to me. I think you're responding to someone else here. I certainly never said anything of the kind.

The only thing that I directly responded to your comments was the first paragraph. The rest were general responses to all the other comments. There is no need to multi-quote and directly respond to every single person with the same comments.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Gehenna.3625]

20 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Squads ask for that but as you said, there are many who have no clue about what professions offer which boons. Or if even their main offers that. However, there are usually more than enough who knows who can fill those roles. Even if not, most commander will assign them to subgroups so any splits will have some.

Yeah that's my experience as well, most of the time. I do understand anxiety and so I get why they fear joining a group.

20 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

The only thing that I directly responded to your comments was the first paragraph. The rest were general responses to all the other comments. There is no need to multi-quote and directly respond to every single person with the same comments.

Ah lol, I see. Thanks for explaining 🙂 

[Gorem.8104]

8 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They could simply put the current version of Soo-Won into an instanced fight, similar to Dragonstorm, so that the people who enjoy organizing for it can keep their fun.

The actual open world version could then be adjusted to fit with the vast majority of players, rather than a smaller subset (like it currently is).

That way, Open World players can enjoy it more and organized people don't have to complain about non-participants taking up character space on the map.

This would put Dragon's End in a better position for almost everyone who cares for it.

If it was like this from the start, and say the instance starter was in Aborstone (so that it actually serves a point for existing besides a weekly stop to pick up some word I would have censored if I said it here as its currently the only reason to visit Cantha shores as spending time here is telling the game "yes, I want to make less income for my time spent playing") It'd have been much better. Open world's would have the same rewards we do now and the private one would hopefully have better rewards, really with how often DE fails, if that was successes instead the rewards would match it. 

The rewards needs to be buffed again for the private version so its at least not pointless to do. I just don't get why they made them as bad as they were at launch and even after multiple buffs to it, they are still terrible rewards for the games "ten year event in the making". 

It would have fixed everything, Organised groups would have their fight, and un-organised groups would have theirs... like it has been in game for a very long time. Why they decided to test the playerbase with this event? Not sure, but if anything has been proved, is that this test failed. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Krzysztof.5973]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I also understand why there is such a need in the DE Meta, because it's more complex and takes a squad that works together and knows what they're doing generally. I also bet you that "quick and alac" are terms that a lot of people will have no idea what you're talking about; a lot of OW players aren't even aware of the roles that exist in group content. 

There is something wrong if you want to participate the culmination of a decade old dragon saga and you have no idea what type of boons are there in GW2...  If this is too complex for somebody then maybe they should not join this meta? There still is other stuff to do in EoD 😕

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

There is something wrong if you want to participate the culmination of a decade old dragon saga and you have no idea what type of boons are there in GW2... 

Well I don't think there's anything wrong with people not knowing about CC or boons to do the story in a game that has catered to them. They've been fighting many dragons and even a god like that. Everybody is a hero in his/her own mind after all. 

1 minute ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

If this is too complex for somebody then maybe they should not join this meta? There still is other stuff to do in EoD 😕

I do agree with this, but Anet made the mistake of putting the turtle egg behind this meta at first. They changed it now but that was really one of the bigger mistakes. 

I also do wonder why they put such a meta in OW at all, but I'm not against it. It's just that a lot of problems and negativity towards this meta could've been avoided if they hadn't put that turtle egg behind the meta at first.

[Ashantara.8731]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

For trying to push that majority of players into a content they don't (and will not) like.

But how are they "pushing" anyone? You no longer need that meta for the turtle. I'm confuzzled.

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The problem is not about "Providing different content for different players". The issue is when they provide wrong content to wrong players.

Okay, that I get. However, by now, everyone knows what that meta is -- so the"wrong" people could have walked away from it by now.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Ashantara.8731 said:

But how are they "pushing" anyone? You no longer need that meta for the turtle. I'm confuzzled.

If they didn;t try to funnel most of OW players into it, they would not have put it as the "culmination of 10 years of GW2 story". They would have put it in instance, or somewhere completely sidelined, outside of main expansion metas.

Just now, Ashantara.8731 said:

Okay, that I get. However, by now, everyone knows what that meta is -- so the"wrong" people could have walked away from it by now.

Why OW players have to now walk away from parts of OW just to make a small minority satisfied?

[yoni.7015]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Why OW players have to now walk away from parts of OW just to make a small minority satisfied?

There are Open World players that enjoy the meta. Open World players are not the monolithic block you like to portray them. Everyone who doesn’t like the meta can walk away and do the many other meta events where you just have to auto attack while watching Netflix, that’s 99% of Open World. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

5 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

 

What if people still fail it? How low should Anet go? As some Strike playing "elite" is double in worth then an OW player. A sweaty raider probably triple at least. They wont go to the OW version if there is an instanced version. You seem to not realize how a couple of semi competent people carry most OW events. It would take at max 2 weeks till the ow version would be drained of its carries. Then you would have to nerf it into nothingness. 

That's exactly the point. There's no reason why these two audiences should be pushed together and why there can not be a serious attempt at differentiating it from the rest of OW content. If ANet wants to make hrder OW metas, they could totally those and aim for a different range in the spectrum of players. Cater to a combination of more OW focused players and players who enjoy harder content.

But that should be communicated ahead of time. 

25 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

But how are they "pushing" anyone? You no longer need that meta for the turtle. I'm confuzzled.

Avoiding the meta is convoluted and it's very unlikely a significant amount of players deliberately and entirely avoided it. 

Both the story and the turtle send you onto the map.

It takes ~22 days of conversions (assuming you have all mats) or months of passively accumulated jade silver (10k) if you avoid the meta. Which you can only start farming towards once you know of the conversion. Something you only learn about in Dragon's End. The place your unlock achievement sends you as well. 
The store works more like a pity system. Where repeated failure leads towards an unlock as well. It's not designed as a way to entirely avoid the event.

25 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Okay, that I get. However, by now, everyone knows what that meta is -- so the"wrong" people could have walked away from it by now.

The ones who immediately played through EoD, yes. But the entire thing is designed to have every player go through that very experience.

And the complaints about that are, at this point, mostly about requesting that ANet please don't make that exact same mistake yet another time. Hard metas, if ANet wants to make those, should be clearly differentiated from regular OW content. They do appeal to some OW players. They do appeal to some players of instanced content. But when you play it, you should have a pretty good idea about what you are getting into. Or at least a negative experience should be limited to one or two attempts only (like raids for players who do not look for that kind of challenge. It is obvious what kind of content this is after the first minute of playing and one can make an educated choice)

Edited June 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Brimstar.9036]

I don't think there is anymore tuning they need to do now. They've posted the increase of success runs over failure when the changes took place and its a vastly bigger amount of people clearing it.

From my personal experience, I haven't failed since launch of EoD and after the changes/nerfs to the encounter I can even say with pickup PUG groups on LFG I haven't failed once yet. Its a clear sign the majority of people know the mechanics by now and that confidence shows in all the successful runs I've done post launch. 

I truly believe nothing needs to be changed about the encounter, anymore changes would make it another faceroll world boss where no thought has to go into it, which isn't what they want by the expression of keeping it some of the hardest PvE content they've made. 

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Brimstar.9036 said:

I don't think there is anymore tuning they need to do now. They've posted the increase of success runs over failure when the changes took place and its a vastly bigger amount of people clearing it.

From my personal experience, I haven't failed since launch of EoD and after the changes/nerfs to the encounter I can even say with pickup PUG groups on LFG I haven't failed once yet. Its a clear sign the majority of people know the mechanics by now and that confidence shows in all the successful runs I've done post launch. 

I truly believe nothing needs to be changed about the encounter, anymore changes would make it another faceroll world boss where no thought has to go into it, which isn't what they want by the expression of keeping it some of the hardest PvE content they've made. 

I am pretty sure the success rate is even higher now than at the time they posted that. 
But yes, there is no need to change it further. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Brimstar.9036]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

I am pretty sure the success rate is even higher now than at the time they posted that. 

I would incline to agree with that. I honestly don't see or hear it failing really at all anymore. My only suggestion for the OP is to get into more organized runs because there is a ton of people running it now.

[Astralporing.1957]

12 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

There are Open World players that enjoy the meta.

Yes, that small minority i mentioned. Frankly, i'd rather that small minority got the content for themselves somewhere where they won't be so in the face of everyone else. Something like Triple Trouble, with a single event that does not involve the whole map and does not cause issues for other OW players wanting to play there. And (to repeat it again) definitely not in an event that Anet meant to be a grand finale to 10 years of GW2 storyline. So, something they clearly wanted for everyone to participate in.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, Brimstar.9036 said:

I don't think there is anymore tuning they need to do now. They've posted the increase of success runs over failure when the changes took place and its a vastly bigger amount of people clearing it.

No, it's not. The % rate of clears may have risen up, but the number of people clearing it is either the same or even lower. It's just most of the people that were not clearing that event stopped trying.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, that small minority i mentioned. Frankly, i'd rather that small minority got the content for themselves somewhere where they won't be so in the face of everyone else. Something like Triple Trouble, with a single event that does not involve the whole map and does not cause issues for other OW players wanting to play there. And (to repeat it again) definitely not in an event that Anet meant to be a grand finale to 10 years of GW2 storyline. So, something they clearly wanted for everyone to participate in.

What small minority? How small? You have a number or how do you know that it is a small minority? 
A grand finale to 10 years of GW2 storyline where you just auto attack while watching Netflix? No, thanks. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Brimstar.9036]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, it's not. The % rate of clears may have risen up, but the number of people clearing it is either the same or even lower. It's just most of the people that were not clearing that event stopped trying.

To be fair, neither of us have data to actually backup those claims

[yoni.7015]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, it's not. The % rate of clears may have risen up, but the number of people clearing it is either the same or even lower. It's just most of the people that were not clearing that event stopped trying.

How do you know that? Of course not everyone runs the meta every day but in the group I am doing the meta there are new players every run who haven’t done it with our group before. 

like always you portray your opinion as fact. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Why OW players have to now walk away from parts of OW just to make a small minority satisfied?

Again, your usage of vague words to describe something that you can't prove.  What small minority according to what metrics? The small minority are those regular forumers posting on virtually all EoD threads complaining about how bad it is. You hardly hear that on mapchats or even on guildchats. Maybe the rare times people complain are when a few does so at failed metas. 

If we'd to take the 60% success rate of DE meta as a measure, then the majority (of those who does the meta) will be satisfied. If anything, I'd hazard to say most people would not give it a second thought.

Those whose meta succeeds do not complain. Only those who fails. And even then, only a very few will complain.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

What small minority? How small? You have a number? Or how do you know that it is a small minority? 

How big do you think the OW population is? How many people you think clear ED? Especially considering that the squads that do clear mostly consist of the same players day after day?

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

A grand finale to 10 years of GW2 storyline where you just auto attack while watching Netflix? No, thanks. 

That's still way better than a "grand finale" most players avoid.

[Brimstar.9036]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, it's not. The % rate of clears may have risen up, but the number of people clearing it is either the same or even lower. It's just most of the people that were not clearing that event stopped trying.

If you need help clearing the Meta however, I am always available to help those in need.