[WvW] Is there even a point to dodge against ranged Soulbeasts?

[Player.2475]

I realized that even with some toughness and vitality, a Sic' Em' One Wolf Pack Soulbeast can get you from being mounted to downed to dead in less than 2 seconds even if you dodge most of the projectiles because the entire volley with buffs and a sigil deals about 40k damage.

Projectile block/reflect, interrupts, or just moving behind them typically does the trick for me, but I don't understand how one simple attack can make dodging, blinking, and stealthing completely useless because of its tracking and damage over time.

[Beddo.1907]

20 minutes ago, Player.2475 said:

I don't understand how one simple attack can make dodging, blinking, and stealthing completely useless because of its tracking and damage over time

If they don't kill you with the combo you can just destroy them. Sic'em+sigil means they are stuck with 1 stunbreak/condi cleanse and can only swap to greatsword and run away.

Also it's been years since sic'em ranger even dismounted me. If you just move in a way that allows quick cover with just warclaw dash they won't even approach you. (Unless it's a typical new player. In that case it's a free kill.)

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, Player.2475 said:

I realized that even with some toughness and vitality, a Sic' Em' One Wolf Pack Soulbeast can get you from being mounted to downed to dead in less than 2 seconds even if you dodge most of the projectiles because the entire volley with buffs and a sigil deals about 40k damage.

Projectile block/reflect, interrupts, or just moving behind them typically does the trick for me, but I don't understand how one simple attack can make dodging, blinking, and stealthing completely useless because of its tracking and damage over time.

Don’t use warclaw, problem solved. Lol

I’ve heard that there is an issue with warclaw where your toughness isn’t applied or something shortly after being dismounted. Don’t quote me on that tho, I’m sure smarter and more clued in people know if there is any truth to that.

[Choppy.4183]

10 hours ago, Player.2475 said:

I realized that even with some toughness and vitality, a Sic' Em' One Wolf Pack Soulbeast can get you from being mounted to downed to dead in less than 2 seconds even if you dodge most of the projectiles because the entire volley with buffs and a sigil deals about 40k damage.

Projectile block/reflect, interrupts, or just moving behind them typically does the trick for me, but I don't understand how one simple attack can make dodging, blinking, and stealthing completely useless because of its tracking and damage over time.

 

Dodging actually denies a bunch of the damage, and you can often stay on yer pony if do it well. I generally just dismount when I see what looks like an lb soulbeast planning to pew pew me... that makes a big difference.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Oh...warclaw dodge, lol.  

Old boomer me was thinking player dodge, and was going in my head 'yes, player dodge negates not only rapid fire but also warhorn #4'. 

Actually used that dodge info while solo'ing Honor of the Waves story yesterday (need that mastery point)--the final boss uses a lot of warhorn attacks and can just dodge them in entirety for an easy time.  

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:17 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Actually used that dodge info while solo'ing Honor of the Waves story yesterday (need that mastery point)--the final boss uses a lot of warhorn attacks and can just dodge them in entirety for an easy time.  

That boss' warhorn scares a lot of people, but the big killer is actually his ranger sword 3/2 combo. If you eat both of those, he can down a necro through full shroud quite easily.

[anduriell.6280]

Just wear some toughness and stop going full glass. Wvw is not pve, you need some Hp and toughness in there. 

Also some defensive trait or runes like runes of durability negates the pewpew combowombo.

No need to dodge after all. Although with one dodge you are usually good, just don’t forget the Stunbreak for when you are dismounted. 
After that you are probably safe for 60s. 

[Atticus.7194]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:03 AM, Player.2475 said:

I realized that even with some toughness and vitality, a Sic' Em' One Wolf Pack Soulbeast can get you from being mounted to downed to dead in less than 2 seconds even if you dodge most of the projectiles because the entire volley with buffs and a sigil deals about 40k damage.

Projectile block/reflect, interrupts, or just moving behind them typically does the trick for me, but I don't understand how one simple attack can make dodging, blinking, and stealthing completely useless because of its tracking and damage over time.

Not really this combo needs to go away into the dirt. If you're distracted for a second and dont see them standing on the edge of the map they'll hit 3 buttons from safety and do more damage then 3 backstabs. 
 

This whole combo is no skill all reward and I have no idea why it has remained as long as it has. Not like soulbeasts don't have better other builds they could fall back to that are eclipsed this ez mode auto win spec.  

[ASP.8093]

Don't think of the Warclaw as a free HP buffer against classes with serious ranged burst: its mechanics leave you vulnerable just as much as they help you. The best HP buffer against such foes is a stony pillar, a big rock, the gentle slope of a hillside, that little micro-perturbation in the middle of south camp that causes all your attacks to say OBSTRUCTED inexplicably — things of that nature.

Edited June 16, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Grand Marshal.4098]

On 6/8/2022 at 12:49 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Just wear some toughness and stop going full glass. Wvw is not pve, you need some Hp and toughness in there. 

Also some defensive trait or runes like runes of durability negates the pewpew combowombo.

No need to dodge after all. Although with one dodge you are usually good, just don’t forget the Stunbreak for when you are dismounted. 
After that you are probably safe for 60s. 

Once you go glass you never go back! 

 

As for the topic at hand, nothing can defend Soulbeast Longbow burst. Rangers are biased they will defend it. Just because it is a dumb way of dealing dmg doesn't mean it should exist. 

Let's compare the burst, range and survivability of a classic Sic Em Soulbeast and a Gunflame zerker to truly get into this. 

But what I am here for is to say that try to LoS the ranger, if you see a Soulbeast standing menacingly just walk away or prep defensive CDs. They can't commit to chases hard cause you can gapclose easily when their movement skills are on CD. A very cowardly way of playing, which I tried with a friend (duo beast for half an hour) and I felt disgusted by the reward this class brings with an auto attack. 

TLDR Dont fight them in open field, if you get bursted the sneaky way it is what it is. 

[captrowdy.9561]

I’ve been by a ranger maybe 5 times in year. What are y’all doing??

[Choppy.4183]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:45 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Once you go glass you never go back! 

 

As for the topic at hand, nothing can defend Soulbeast Longbow burst. Rangers are biased they will defend it. Just because it is a dumb way of dealing dmg doesn't mean it should exist. 

Let's compare the burst, range and survivability of a classic Sic Em Soulbeast and a Gunflame zerker to truly get into this. 

But what I am here for is to say that try to LoS the ranger, if you see a Soulbeast standing menacingly just walk away or prep defensive CDs. They can't commit to chases hard cause you can gapclose easily when their movement skills are on CD. A very cowardly way of playing, which I tried with a friend (duo beast for half an hour) and I felt disgusted by the reward this class brings with an auto attack. 

TLDR Dont fight them in open field, if you get bursted the sneaky way it is what it is. 

Nothing can defend it? You're a pretty experienced player so I'm sure you don't really believe this.

As noted above, if you're riding a pony and a Sic em soulbeast looks ready to open up and you're up for a fight, dismounting is about the best thing you can do. Breaking line of sight, as you mention, is an easy and free way to prevent the burst if it's an option, but so will any block, evade, dodge, reflect, invuln, etc. Even if you can't dismount before the burst starts, dodge twice after rapid fire starts and you'll negate most of the damage. If you eat it and the ranger discounts you, you're gonna have a bad time because you french fry'd when you shoulda pizza'd....

Don't be like (M)Ike and you should be fine....

Edited June 14, 2022 by Choppy.4183
Spacing

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Choppy.4183 said:

Nothing can defend it? You're a pretty experienced player so I'm sure you don't really believe this.

As noted above, if you're riding a pony and a Sic em soulbeast looks ready to open up and you're up for a fight, dismounting is about the best thing you can do. Breaking line of sight, as you mention, is an easy and free way to prevent the burst if it's an option, but so will any block, evade, dodge, reflect, invuln, etc. Even if you can't dismount before the burst starts, dodge twice after rapid fire starts and you'll negate most of the damage. If you eat it and the ranger discounts you, you're gonna have a bad time because you french fry'd when you shoulda pizza'd....

Don't be like (M)Ike and you should be fine...

I've actually never hit the numbers some people say they can. I could see 40k with warhorn into longbow, but if you're running that and they survive the burst, then you're a sitting duck- longbow (excluding 2 because this is assuming youve used it), sword, axe, or dagger does not have the strength on their own to get you out of a counterattack from someone who survived. There's definetly counterplay, and if the soulbeast runs up on you when you're in an open field then they simply led well for their build.

[Sahne.6950]

On 6/14/2022 at 7:20 PM, captrowdy.9561 said:

I’ve been by a ranger maybe 5 times in year. What are y’all doing??

you dear sir... have not met my "no-pet-karate-ranger"

Edited June 22, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

22 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you dear sir... have not met my "no-pet-karate-ranger"

!Warning! Videoquality and Audio made by Anet-balancing team! (this video is a kitten meme recorded with a microwave and is 100% intended this way...  its not meant to be taken seriously. its not even a montage or anything its just someone recording me playing for 20 minutes, cutting out the running part and uploading, there is no deaths inbetween... its sole purpose is to show how stupid the Soulbeast damage can be... i mean... look at those numbersxD)

 

You're burning a lot to hit those numbers at times though. Not that you shouldnt- but when people just stand there of course you'll do a lot of damage. Power soulbeast is all about burst, in every mode. A lot of people seem to think it's 'click ultimate, click sic em, click signet for unblockable, win', but you're hitting a decent amount of skills for some fights and the ones where you're not (i.e. the first one) they're running away in a still open area that's easy for any ranged attacker to pick off.

[Sandzibar.5134]

isnt that video from over a year ago?

 

[Sahne.6950]

yup its a year old. you should see what the karate ranger does to celeharbingers xD!

[Sahne.6950]

6 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

You're burning a lot to hit those numbers at times though. Not that you shouldnt- but when people just stand there of course you'll do a lot of damage. Power soulbeast is all about burst, in every mode. A lot of people seem to think it's 'click ultimate, click sic em, click signet for unblockable, win', but you're hitting a decent amount of skills for some fights and the ones where you're not (i.e. the first one) they're running away in a still open area that's easy for any ranged attacker to pick off.

 in some of the clips i use it but alot of the times i dont even use it.  just saying it 100% doesnt even need sicem and owp. alot of the times i used protect me, dolyak, and quickening, just for the extra sustain.

The build is a meme tho. It melts to condis if you play dumb.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sandzibar.5134]

Probably does a bit of dmg vs bads/bronze when you get the jump on them.

The skirm/bm/sb glass build with OWP and Sicem is good for that.

 

Versus any decent roamer that combo is played out and predictable and you get absolutely rinsed because it sacrifices so much for that damage front load.

 

Or anything with reflects and block up time.

How you doing with it vs cele virts or scrappers and weavers?

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Sandzibar.5134

[Sahne.6950]

11 minutes ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Probably does a bit of dmg vs bads/bronze when you get the jump on them.

The skirm/bm/sb glass build with OWP and Sicem is good for that.

 

Versus any decent roamer that combo is played out and predictable and you get absolutely rinsed because it sacrifices so much for that damage front load.

 

Or anything with reflects and block up time.

 

 

yeah totally agree. i am rocking wilderness+bm+sb most of the time. But your everyday pew pew karatechop ranger is always a blast^^.

But i have to add that this is by no means a noobstomper. It is surprisingly effective even against people with decent skill. i would highly advise you try it tho, before rating it a noobstomper. its actually crazy good. The matchup vs Willbender/Harbinger/virtuoso/and Vindicator is ezpz for this build. thats why its pretty good atm.

your are literally trading the cleanse on survivalskills and prot on dodge, for a WAGONLOAD of damage. You can still become incredibly tanky during dolyakstance+ having prot on you. You are only missing the cleanse from survival and prot really. But you take protect me to compensate the lack of protection on dodge and you take double cleansing sigils and bearstance to compensate the cleanses that you lost from not taking quickening and lightning reflexes... overall it balances out surprisingly nice. On paper you are only loosing some protection uptime, but with Durarunes and protect me at the right times you barely notice! i can link the build if you want, so you actually see whats goin on.

However if you are on your backfoot/messed up your kiting and get spammed with condis your toast! 😄

if you know how to space with gs3 and gazelle f2 this build is pretty bonkers, not many things can chase it. Abusing OOC and your BRRRR goes a long way in roaming.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

On 6/15/2022 at 2:52 PM, Sandzibar.5134 said:

How you doing with it vs cele virts or scrappers and weavers?

virtuoso is managable, altho i have to say i met cele virtuosos, where i am simply hitting a brick wall. They dont die, i dont die...but if you get the jump on them you win 100%. Cele virtuoso is actually pretty stronk in roaming atm. but literally turning around and YEETING away with gs3 and gazelle f2... they cant keep up. so even if you should loose the engagement, you can simply walk away from it.

Scrapper is almost always a win. If they get the jump on you, thanks to their stealth its sometimes hard to recover, but when you both are starting a fair fight you should always win.

And Weaver is a complete freekill. Just kite and go boom. I am also fighting a celeweaver in the video, so you can see it there. I kite him under the bridge and then open on him again and obliterate him. Weaver can simply not keep up with Gs3 into gazelle f2 mobility.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Ferus.3165]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

virtuoso is managable, altho i have to say i met cele virtuosos, where i am simply hitting a brick wall. They dont die, i dont die...but if you get the jump on them you win 100%. Cele virtuoso is actually pretty stronk in roaming atm. but literally turning around and YEETING away with gs3 and gazelle f2... they cant keep up. so even if you should loose the engagement, you can simply walk away from it.

Scrapper is almost always a win. If they get the jump on you, thanks to their stealth its sometimes hard to recover, but when you both are starting a fair fight you should always win. (im fighting a scrapper in the video aswell... i simply overwhelm him with dmg. i dont even bother to kite there.

And Weaver is a complete freekill. Just kite and go boom. I am also fighting a celeweaver in the video, so you can see it there. I kite him under the bridge and then open on him again and obliterate him. Weaver can simply not keep up with Gs3 into gazelle f2 mobility.

just lol if you think this one year old video where you are stomping complete noobs is in any way shape or form an indication that SB is somehow too strong. The fight against the scrapper in your video is the perfect example. You are beating a monk rune scrapper who simply runs straight at you even though you just used all your selfbuff skills visibly in front of him. The scrapper has absolutely no idea what he is doing. He has bulwark gyro equipped and could have blocked your whole longbow burst with his toolbelt skill. He also could have activated it simply for the stability when he was engaging you in melee combat but he used it after you swapped to greatsword and after you already used your cc on him Oo.

I don't know what other skills he had equipped or what strange stat combination with possible just exotic or yellow equipment he was using but that was enough skill display (or lack thereof) to easily understand that this scrapper does not represent who has any favor in this matchup. And the same goes for the rest of the video.

[anduriell.6280]

20 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

You're burning a lot to hit those numbers at times though. Not that you shouldnt- but when people just stand there of course you'll do a lot of damage. Power soulbeast is all about burst, in every mode. A lot of people seem to think it's 'click ultimate, click sic em, click signet for unblockable, win', but you're hitting a decent amount of skills for some fights and the ones where you're not (i.e. the first one) they're running away in a still open area that's easy for any ranged attacker to pick off.

Actually the soulbeast has to blast the whole utility bar  (with some pre-emptive cast like OWP) to be able to pull high numbers. 

However as i said, a protection proc literally negates 30% of the damage and with some toughness could barely take down a player. Without even dodging. You move or throw an evade into the mix and there is  not even the need to use the heal.  

And then you have an enemy with all the utilities in CD and you as it's target the whole 15 skills. But I guess the glassy thieves need to come here to complain. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Ferus.3165 said:

just lol if you think this one year old video where you are stomping complete noobs is in any way shape or form an indication that SB is somehow too strong

as if i said anything like that lol. I stated it that this Video is not even supposed to be good fights or anything. its literally just random footage with w0nky music and bad video. The intention of the video is not to show individual performances to prove a point. Its supposed to be funny that a Soulbeast can literally walk around and go 9k-9k-13k your dead. Abusing the OOC and Rapidfire into a quick gazelle burst goes a long way actually. Its more about the killingspree, rather than intense, close and skilled fights. However this build is far from being overpowered. It simply works because it abuses the OOC mechanic with mobility. I wanted to show how cheap and easy you can navigate thru WvW with this build, literally oneshotting 6 or so people back to back to back, but that alone does not make a build overpowered.

Never have i said that its too strong or needs a nerf or anything.... Neither have i said that this was good fights or anything. i said it numerous times that this is literally a memebuild, which has to run from any form of heavycondipressure.

Do you really think that my intention was to prove that Soulbeast is overpowered and needs a nerf? lol. Why would i advocate for nerfs to my main when there is literally Harbinger running around? xD

i mean, come on! its 2022 and this Thread is crying about Rapidfire oneshotting you even if you doubledodge..... xD we should not take any of this seriously.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

Maybe try... double dodge?

Especially considering most OWP SBs are like NPCs, they see you, they pop all CDs and do bow 2. And then they burn through whatever defensive CDs they slotted and either run or die.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Hotride.2187