Looking for the complete truth.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

Why is it that WvW does not get more new content in the form of new maps? The game is 10 years old and since that time we have had 1 new map. I did not like it for the size and the aesthetics of it (to reminiscent of silver wastes for my taste) but that's ok, at least it was something. There have been 3 expansions on the pve side of things and there have been multiple zones added each expansion, but we wvw really only have 3 maps 1. EB, 2. Borderlands is copy pasta for each color and then 3. Desert borderlands. 

So, I keep hearing that Anet hates WvW and Pvp in general and doesn't care about that player base, but I seriously would like to know, why?  Why so little to WvW?

Maybe it is just my perspective, but it seems like not much in the way of new map content.

The other thing that I was wondering about is the balance. Why isn't there a clear communication about the balance direction? Example, a lot of people do not like the overabundance of boon sharing and there are a lot of those that don't like the amount of condition application in the game, so why isn't there more communication about the direction of the balance? Just something to let players know, like, Anet says, " we love boon sharing and are happy how it is" or " we like condition damage and would even like to put more in", just something that would tell what there vision is and then it would be nice if they looked for feedback from the players too. Anyway, I just was seriously wondering and It would be absolutely awesome, if somebody from Anet would respond to this thread.

One more thing any news on Alliances?

[Telgum.6071]

38 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Why so little to WvW?

My opinion:

1. Most playerbase is pure PvE and extremely ocasional WvW for Gift of Battle. sPvP receives even less content that WvW because there is no reason to do sPvP as PvE player, unless you want achievement points or certain skins.

2. On top of that, you only pay once for each expansion and maybe for living worlds, that makes the gem store the most recurrent source of revenue for Arenanet, so a part of the heavy focus goes there with new skins each month.

3. kitten feedback from the WvW community, there isn't a single WvW addittion (tactics, warclaw, glide, desert borderland) that didn't receive a ton of hate, most times unjustified IMO.

4. Alliances were announced in 2018, just one year later some people got fired or different roles at the company and the game passed a very bad moment. And yet another year later the covid and lockdown.

The people who says "Arenanet hates this gamemode or this class" is either stupid, biased or exaggerated.

38 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Why isn't there a clear communication about the balance direction?

Because Arenanet sucks at communication (they seem to be improving at it, as they stated they want to enforce more melee encounters over ranged for zergs and have made some more frequent roadmaps and blogspot), also one could argue they don't have much idea about competitive balance. Not that I know better, but there is stuff crystal clear OP like Celestial in roaming, boonballs that are excessively strong or power Willbender. They also needed a ton of time to nerf Necromancers in pvp, while Warriors keep fading into nothingness.

38 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

One more thing any news on Alliances?

This is the most recent stuff and I think we should expect more info before the end of the month or right after. If I were you I wouldn't expect the final Alliances version for this year.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Why is it that WvW does not get more new content in the form of new maps? The game is 10 years old and since that time we have had 1 new map.

1. When Anet added the Desert Borderland map with HoT, it nearly killed the game mode and Anet had to make a lot of changes to the map (i.e. remove PvE map events, etc.). The sad truth is: Anet did/does not really understand the game mode WvWvW and what worked and what not.

2. Anet ignored the game mode for years and did not care about it and did not put any/enough dev ressources in this game mode that was recently called  "a cornerstone of the game".

3. Also part of the truth: When Anet announces something and then there are not regular updates or just silence for some time, then the chances are high that the project is no longer worked on because ressources are shifted to other projects. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Zok.4956

[jul.7602]

Because the silly hardcore players decided that Anet should put all of their WvW allocated resources into alliances. We wont get any major project in WvW until that (if ever) is complete. I've been telling everyone in the beginning that this whole alliance thing would amount to nothing. At best, alliances will be finished mid 2023. Until then don't expect anything huge as far as patches go. 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

WvW team has been pulled to work on the new guild wars mobile br game.

Side note, there really aren't any WvW devs left, just the janitor that knows a tiny bit of coding to change values on skills.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

WvW team has been pulled to work on the new guild wars mobile br game.

Side note, there really aren't any WvW devs left, just the janitor that knows a tiny bit of coding to change values on skills.

Can he missclick and make all dragon banners still mobile? At least that will be more fun to me rn than it used to. 😁

[lotus.5672]

Cause anet makes most of their money off gemstore whales, so thats where most of their resources go.

Also Im willing bet they have way more artists and 3d modelers than actual good programmers (good is a keyword) that could tackle the massive spaghetti code that is wvw.

[Xenesis.6389]

Pve sells the game, the rest doesn't. Think that's simple enough.

Even though a game company should take care of their entire game, and not just one section. We could go into the argument that the other sections weren't popular enough, or maybe they didn't bother to put anything specific to those places to sell other than finishers. They invested a lot of money into spvp esports and then abandoned it. Wvw was the lowest priority from day one, and still is in it's "cornerstone" status. Their communication is some of the most inconsistent I've seen in gaming.

They're made so many mistakes that led to abandon content, abandon projects, layoffs, last founder to leave, forced to sell pve expansions (I believe they weren't going the expansion route first couple years of the game, living story was suppose to cover this), they're left to only focus on pve and fueling the cash shop.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

First of all, thank you to all that responded. I had been away from the game for about 8 months and just recently returned, so in a way for me it was like looking at the game through fresh eyes to a degree. I have always enjoyed the game mode wvw and I just see a lot of potential if given the right resources, as some of you pointed out doesn't seem to be a priority. 

Speaking for myself I see a game mode that has a lot of potential. I enjoy the build diversity, both large scale and small-scale battles as well as solo roaming throughout the maps on that chance you meet the other roamer or roamers and the spontaneous battles that come from it. Win lose or draw they really are fun as long as it was a good fight. I find large scale battles fun as well, very satisfying to clash against a bunch of others players dodging red circles and projectiles and huge aoe bombs and still coming out with loads of bags and looking down on the bodies all over the ground. It really is fun!

I won't get into the problems it has that needs to get fixed but before moving forward but think of it like this, if after 10 years and with very little development and resources put into the game mode, it still has this many players that are still playing and watching and waiting for improvements and still passionate enough about that game mode that you still get the feedback good or bad, that alone should be a testament to just how much more the game mode could be with the right allocation of resources as well a design vision. It still is an untapped gold mine, that for some reason, just keeps getting pushed aside. 

Anyway, thanks again for all the responses and I look forward to seeing you out there.

[Mabi black.1824]

33 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

if after 10 years and with very little development and resources put into the game mode, it still has this many players that are still playing and watching and waiting for improvements and still passionate enough about that game mode that you still get the feedback good or bad, that alone should be a testament to just how much more the game mode could be with the right allocation of resources as well a design vision. It still is an untapped gold mine, that for some reason, just keeps getting pushed aside. 

this is really a very good observation brother. I've been thinking about the same thing for a long time. it is really under the eyes of all 10 years and you still do not have a competition in the market that comes close to your level. you have to say it and you have to be proud anet of the product you have made. not even a giant like amazon (with probably infinite resources) can compete.

 

have you had a hard time? are there no economic resources to invest in planning or planning a profitable future? ok it happens all the time in the world of work. look for a partner with good financial capital that can support your project. you don't want partners between your feet, ok use some advertising, sponsors of other products open a pop up in the corner of the screen and let me see your sponsors. we still have more than 800,000 deaths in 7 days and only in Europe.

or look for a good financial advisor who can help you, this game mode can really go further, grow, entertain many more people and make your company earn well. of course you have to believe it and you have to want it.

 

with this I do not want to be offensive or presumptuous that everything is simple. it's just a customer of yours who wants to give good advice.

[Svarty.8019]

19 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Looking for the complete truth.

Might I suggest you give up that search? The buddha said that if you are to put off the search for enlightenment to search for truth, you will never find the path.

[Mabi black.1824]

10 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Might I suggest you give up that search? The buddha said that if you are to put off the search for enlightenment to search for truth, you will never find the path.

and I would say that he said well. very nice quote svarty 😉

[Fueki.4753]

Since Arenanet doesn't really tell us anything, you will not get access to the complete truth.

However, the most probable reason Arenanet doesn't spend more resources on WvW is the lack of players.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Telgum.6071 summed it up the best.

When they DO add something new to WvW the WvW forums find something, anything at all about it to moan and complain about whether justified or not.

Should there be a new map by this point? Yes. Make a Shing Jea map. Make a Kaineng City map, an Echovald Wilds map, a Jade Sea map (make it a green box :P). Make them rotate with Alpine and Desert. The KC map can rotate with EBG.

Add the Siege Turtle in and deactivate it's jets and make it's cannons cost supply.

[Sviel.7493]

tl;dr WvW has an identity crisis.  Anet can't make additional maps until they decide on an identity, but they are unwilling to publicly do that atm.  They claim to support all styles of play, but a map will always cater to one more than another as you cannot simultaneously support zerg-only play and mixed zerg/small-scale play.

Shortly after release, they realized that WvW was bleeding players with every tournament due to burnout.  They axed the tournies, then seemed to ignore the game mode for several years.  As it turned out, they were working on a huge WvW update that eventually dropped with HoT.  It was very good in some places and needed tuning in others, but overall turned out to be a disaster for two reasons.  First, the update addressed issues the playerbase had many years ago.  Many of the people who hated those issues had since left the game mode as it appeared to be abandoned due to a lack of communication.  The remaining people had very different ideas about what made WvW good.  Second, they dropped it at the same time that they forced everyone out of WvW to build guild halls to get crucial buffs (like +5 supply) back.  This made for a terrible first impression of the new maps and, along with the first reason, led to such blowback as to discourage any additional maps.

It's also worth noting that they don't seem to have a clear direction for WvW that they are willing to communicate to us.  They seem reluctant to do or say anything that might cause people to give up on the game.  We know they plan to work on alliances and improve rewards and are waiting to see what kind of changes that brings before doing a deep dive on every system.  That's encouraging.  At the same time, while they don't communicate a vision, they do have a pattern of changes that seem to favor zerging while discouraging other forms of play.  We don't get any justification for these changes so we can't know for sure, but the consistency is telling.

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

      Don't know that I'm comfortable with calling, what some of you are preaching, as gospel.  See alot of misinformation or half truths.

 I see many excuses being made for poor decisions but that's par for the course imo.  From beta of '05 until 5 seconds ago, the end result for competitive game modes in "Guild"wars has always been the same. How many updates did any competitive game modes get in gw1 after their inception? 

  Where have the fluxes been?   Where have the various weekend events been? Where has any effort at all been?  You seem to have a short memory.

   Not going to get in to what I know or believe....it's not important. Great lengths were gone to in communications with the powers that be in hopes of ensuring a better game eexperience for the best players in this game. Based upon past efforts and the perceived level of commitment....

The sword dangles above....all that awaits us now is pure butchery of this 1 chance being given.

   Drop me a mail and ill hit you back.

  It's Over.   WvW Loses.   gg

[nthmetal.9652]

Quote

Why is it that WvW does not get more new content in the form of new maps?

When the desert map introduced, and everything was suddenly the desert map, understandably, people were not happy. However, even to this day a vocal portion of the WvW community has .... challenges accepting change. Just ask around for who likes the desert map and a lot of people still will say they hate it. Why? I don't know. Too much of an issue to dodge roots and rocks? Keep andtower lords that actually, at least a little bit, fight back? The only kind of criticism I can somewhat understand is that the distances are longer.

Then look at what happened when they introduced the warclaw. It wasn't easily accepted - TO THIS DAY there are players, who say it should go away, even when it's already lost its biggest advantages. For a time, with the warclaw you had a speed buff in own territory, which would make fighting for objectives even more important. That has gone away, even though IMO it was totally in the spirit of the mode. For a time the warclaw could finish downies. Now we're left with a glorified speed boost. At least you can share it with your own people, who don't have it yet.

The reason we can't have new things in WvW is, because a portion of the community is not accepting change, and so we're left with what we already have.

[Dawdler.8521]

30 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

When the desert map introduced, and everything was suddenly the desert map, understandably, people were not happy. However, even to this day a vocal portion of the WvW community has .... challenges accepting change. Just ask around for who likes the desert map and a lot of people still will say they hate it.

 

Just to point something out, it was the WvW community at large that nearly destroyed WvW by narrowly evading a vote to have 3 ABL/3 DBL every quarter. Many of the "vocal portion" probably said kitten no to that. I know I did and made it very clear I'd rather vote to delete DBL than trust in the WvW community to make the right choice.

We got lucky.

Also note that this was the first version of DBL people voted for, not the vastly improved and far more playable version we have today. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Sahne.6950]

36 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

Just ask around for who likes the desert map and a lot of people still will say they hate it. Why? I don't know. Too much of an issue to dodge roots and rocks? Keep andtower lords that actually, at least a little bit, fight back? The only kind of criticism I can somewhat understand is that the distances are longer.

The verticality of it leads to a distinct advantage for one of the three sides in certain areas of the map. They can literally just glide over creeks to avoid fights completly. Furthermore there is jumppads that only one side can use. People will fight close to it and if there is a slim chance of them dying they use the pad and away they are. Desert has just so many cheap ways of avoiding combat... and thats why i avoid Desert.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[nthmetal.9652]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The verticality of it leads to a distinct advantage for one of the three sides in certain areas of the map. They can literally just glide over creeks to avoid fights completly. Furthermore there is jumppads that only one side can use. People will fight close to it and if there is a slim chance of them dying they use the pad and away they are. Desert has just so many cheap ways of avoiding combat... and thats why i avoid Desert.

Let me fix that for you:

The verticality of the map adds additional tactical options, such as gliding over a group blocking access to your keep, so you can instead try to properly defend said keep or at least regroup in a more davorable position.
Jump pads likewise make for more tactical options for either retreat or reinforcements, or quick repositioning while you're suffering under double teaming.
Jump pad access is usually tied to shrines, so attackers do well to control at least some of the shrines - and that usually also happens.

Personally I have never seen a group running away from a fight using the jump pads (usually because they don't control them all), but I do like the idea.

Why do you have to make it sound so negative, when it actually adds options? 

[Sahne.6950]

15 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

Let me fix that for you:

The verticality of the map adds additional tactical options, such as gliding over a group blocking access to your keep, so you can instead try to properly defend said keep or at least regroup in a more davorable position.
Jump pads likewise make for more tactical options for either retreat or reinforcements, or quick repositioning while you're suffering under double teaming.
Jump pad access is usually tied to shrines, so attackers do well to control at least some of the shrines - and that usually also happens.

Personally I have never seen a group running away from a fight using the jump pads (usually because they don't control them all), but I do like the idea.

Why do you have to make it sound so negative, when it actually adds options? 

because i have met to many individuals that are abusig your glorious "additinal tactical options". They sit next to your "TaCtiCal spOTs" and just glide away at the slightest inconveniance. The defenders can then reach spots that you can not reach and just sit on those little pixelwalks on walls and BRRRRR you with Rangers or siege. Nothing more frustrating than a 5-Ranger-Squad abusig all of these little spots, mainly you have these areas on Airkeep. Also your "glorious favorable positions" can be abused to setup Siege that cant be cleard, its just bad gamedesigin with literal 0 couterplay.

You just have to meet a nasty server... when that server (not gonna name it) has Redborder as homes they will abuse all the cheaky beaky spots to a level of frustration unheard of yet. It happend to me alot... im sick of it. Happy you have not experienced this yet. But Deserts maplayout can be abused in numerous ways. And most of them originate from Gliding and the jumppads.

Desert might be cool on paper, and they indeed look good. But as soon as you are facing a tryhardguild, there is just so many things that they can and will abuse.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[nthmetal.9652]

9 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Also your "glorious favorable positions" can be abused to setup Siege that cant be cleard, its just bad gamedesigin with literal 0 couterplay.

Simply attack from another angle. If what you said was a problem, keeps on desert would notor only rarely get flipped, but they do. And it often enough feels like actual battles for a keep with wave after wave of attack. It feels satisfying to take it. It feels satisfying to defend it. And if your group suffers from a 5-man ranger group, I fear the issues lie elsewhere than in the positioning of said rangers.

Regarding the 0 counterplay argument, we do have that. But it's not map-specfic. It's class specific. Did you ever try to catch that one shifty deadeye in a keep with their stealth and restealth mechanism? Are you aware what resources you have to invest to actually do that? We're talking about ONE player. And that wouldn't be a problem, if Anet, in their infinite wisdom hadn't decided, that thieves need access to portals.

Yes, WvW has issues with imbalances and mechanics that feel unfair, but map design is a far less important issue IMO.

[Sahne.6950]

40 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

Simply attack from another angle. If what you said was a problem, keeps on desert would notor only rarely get flipped, but they do. And it often enough feels like actual battles for a keep with wave after wave of attack. It feels satisfying to take it. It feels satisfying to defend it. And if your group suffers from a 5-man ranger group, I fear the issues lie elsewhere than in the positioning of said rangers.

Regarding the 0 counterplay argument, we do have that. But it's not map-specfic. It's class specific. Did you ever try to catch that one shifty deadeye in a keep with their stealth and restealth mechanism? Are you aware what resources you have to invest to actually do that? We're talking about ONE player. And that wouldn't be a problem, if Anet, in their infinite wisdom hadn't decided, that thieves need access to portals.

Yes, WvW has issues with imbalances and mechanics that feel unfair, but map design is a far less important issue IMO.

you are not listening to what i am saying. You are making "git gud" excuses and refering to class balance/problems. When in reality i am telling you that people are abusing gliding, pixelwalks and spots that you can simply not reach, should you not have the option to glide in this area, to avoid combat, and that i find that very annoying. I am also pissed about Warclaw, because of the same reasons. you can Avoid combat to easily. WvW was a happier place before these things. Some people have not played during that time, and some simply dont remember anymore. From what you are saying i guess you mostly participate in largescale battles... and your average " i follow tag for bag" gameplay might work.. but when you go in smallscale or are facing tryhardguilds that abuse those mechanics... it gets frustrating rather fast.

Just imagine your are fighting a dude and just before he dies, he jumps down the cliff to glide on a little edge just a few feet under the cliff.... you are warrior, aka. meele-only. You can not get there because you will die from falldamage, and you can not reach him with ranged because you decided to play warrior, and there is no other way to get to this ledge, besides gliding to it...

WHAT A SHAME! guess i can not kill this guy! MAN I LOVE THIS TACTICAL GAMEPLAY! If this happens to you multiple times in a single hour... you would be frustrated aswell.

 

i will end it right here. Good luck on your desertmap.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Mabi black.1824]

4 hours ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

Just ask around for who likes the desert map and a lot of people still will say they hate it. Why? I don't know.

I can tell you that they could make 100 new maps and there won't be 1 that the whole community likes, it's normal, but who cares.

any new map that arenanet could offer us will have something more fun and something less fun. that is not the point. the point that is rightly asked in the initial post , is why this game mode should not have new content in the form of new maps.

you have to imagine 3 or 4 new maps that you rotate continuously every 2 months with the aim of breaking the custom . don't just see what you can abuse on one map or another. in a competitive mode you will always find players who abuse anything just to win, or just to break your balls.

the problem is that when I also asked questions about any new maps, I was told that it takes 1 year of work to create a new wvw map.

I was disappointed, and then I thought, as in my work when we take the task of building a large plant for tens of thousands of euros. I can put 10 men to work on two shifts and finish the job in 3 months, or put only two men for 8 hours a day and I will need 3 years of work.

[senftube.6081]

They can also redo some old maps. EBG has a great Layout but it is to tiny at the Centre. They could rework the biomes and give EBG a HoT/PoF and EoD Biome. Red PoF/ Green HoT and / Blue EoD

 

Alpine could need some reworks at the Ruins and delete that silly Bloodlust.

 

Desert would be a great map but it is too big and sometimes pretty confusing.