Is....is SA deadeye really dead now? Did something actually good happen with this patch?

[Skada.1362]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Then I assume there's a bug in game, since I can't really mount-up after teef touched me, yet you claim it's "no combat" when he camps 24/7 stealth.🤔
Your second sentence also doesn't make sense, because how do you interrupt stealth application if target is already stealthed? It's still game of luck than skill against teefs. Probably you are assuming that he'll do it in front of your face in open field with smoke field + heartseeker combo?
On top of that, you only receive damage in stealth from very few sources "intentonally", anything else is also based on prediction or luck.
People still defending this broken mechanic...

Well, it's nerfed now so no need to keep crying. You are safe now!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sector.9634]

Yes they are.

Pleps and Noobs are save now 🙂

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

You can still permastealth, it takes a bit more effort, sure, but it's still possible and easy.

@Psycoprophet.8107 As for eso, bdo and wow (never played the first two) but with a little research:
bdo - oni shadow has a 30sec CD and 15sec stealth.
eso - fair enough
wow - you can enter stealth in combat with vanish 2min CD.

All of these however have counters and drawbacks to stealth such as stealth breaks with damage recieved/walking slower/detection range, GW2 has a handful of skills to counter stealth which DE counters.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

56 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

You can still permastealth, it takes a bit more effort, sure, but it's still possible and easy.

@Psycoprophet.8107 As for eso, bdo and wow (never played the first two) but with a little research:
bdo - oni shadow has a 30sec CD and 15sec stealth.
eso - fair enough
wow - you can enter stealth in combat with vanish 2min CD.

All of these however have counters and drawbacks to stealth such as stealth breaks with damage recieved/walking slower/detection range, GW2 has a handful of skills to counter stealth which DE counters.

Gw2 has drawbacks as well, any damage to opponents reveal, classes have reveal, thief is squishy, wvw has reveal at camps, the game is a aoe spam game......u get hit buy aoe's in stealth and so on and so on. There are a lot of ways to combat stealth in gw2 if players think about things for 2 secs.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Stealth maybe, but Deadeye is insane now---very, very hard to lockdown or hit.  It's like a super ranged Daredevil.

[MarkBecks.6453]

So SA got reworked, and how does that affect Deadeye? Deadeye is a Specialization track, and has nothing to do with anything else. This was a change to that track without any indication in patch notes, and how do I know this? Because I still have 3 seconds of invis, dodge rolling with a rifle equipped in PVE. The specialization track is specifically for the profession you choose, and no ways does it get affected by anything else you select. IMO, it doesn't matter what they did to SA, I now cannot play rifle deadeye because I dont need speed as a DE, I am not trying to run away, I am trying to stealth so I can stay engaged in the fight. All being said, I now longer play DE in WvW not interested in trying to compensate for something that was the most important skill as DE. I am done

 

[Dawdler.8521]

16 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

 wvw has reveal at camps

... say what now?

[UNOwen.7132]

SA DE was already unplayable garbage pre-patch. This actually changes the traitline into something usable for anything other than just getting extra armour-ignoring damage, and encourages the arleady superior playstyle of entering stealth just to leave it ASAP.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

23 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Gw2 has drawbacks as well, any damage to opponents reveal, classes have reveal, thief is squishy, wvw has reveal at camps, the game is a aoe spam game......u get hit buy aoe's in stealth and so on and so on. There are a lot of ways to combat stealth in gw2 if players think about things for 2 secs. 

 

Counters sure, there are a few, drawbacks there is none. 

What the heck is the reasoning "u get hit by aoe in stealth"? 

Not only there aren't a lot of ways to combat stealth but some skills don't even work without a target. 

Reveals in sentries, towers, etc. affect more mesmer than thief itself since mesmer has high CDs on stealth and low mobility. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

... say what now?

In wvw near enemy camps/guards u have a 2 sec max stealth limit no?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

27 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

In wvw near enemy camps/guards u have a 2 sec max stealth limit no?

Since when? I remember seeing teefs sitting near camp/guards in stealth forever without any penalties. You sure they weren't marked by random trap that someone placed against pests?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

8 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Since when? I remember seeing teefs sitting near camp/guards in stealth forever without any penalties. You sure they weren't marked by random trap that someone placed against pests?

Have u never played thief, or used stealth on toon ranger or any other toon than has stealth? In wvw if ur near a guard outside enemy camps/towers u get a little target debuff where u will be revealed if u try and stack more than 2 secs of stealth. This was added couple years ago iirc. The thief can remove the debuff by killing guard.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Dawdler.8521]

12 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Have u never played thief, or used stealth on toon ranger or any other toon than has stealth? In wvw if ur near a guard outside enemy camps/towers u get a little target debuff where u will be revealed if u try and stack more than 2 secs of stealth. This was added couple years ago iirc. The thief can remove the debuff by killing guard.

That's sentries and all of them can be avoided when going to camps/towers/keeps.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Have u never played thief, or used stealth on toon ranger or any other toon than has stealth? In wvw if ur near a guard outside enemy camps/towers u get a little target debuff where u will be revealed if u try and stack more than 2 secs of stealth. This was added couple years ago iirc. The thief can remove the debuff by killing guard.

Lmao, I'm 99.9% sure you're wrong, gonna log on teef and visit some enemy camps and afk in stealth.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

That's sentries and all of them can be avoided when going to camps/towers/keeps.

Yes they can be avoided and the thief can kill the sentry guard to cancel it which is a good thing. This is the problem with the mentality ofbgw2 players vs other mmo players, u guys are legit spoiled hand holding noobs lmao most the players in this game if thwy had their way.......their version of great balance would be sentries covering 100% of wvw limiting stealth to 2 secs  and unavoidable literally killing thief class which is ok cu they don't play it. I was simply stating that there are things LIKE sentries put in place to help counter thief on top of thieves being able to take damage while stealthed in a aoe spam fest game, target painters, most skills leave red circles where thief if doing finishers thru smoke fields, reveal skills, reveal when thief does damage etc etc and the response is sentries can be avoided. Seriously this games doomed lmao.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 minute ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Yes they can be avoided and the thief can kill the sentry guard to cancel it which is a good thing. This is the problem with the mentality ofbgw2 players vs other mmo players, u guys are legit spoiled hand holding noobs lmao most the players in this game if thwy had their way.......their version of great balance would be sentries covering 100% of wvw limiting stealth to 2 secs  and unavoidable literally killing which is ok cu they don't play it. I was simply stating that there are things LIKE sentries put in place to help counter thief on top of thieves being able to take damage while stealthed in a aoe spam fest game, target painters, most skills leave red circles where thief if doing finishers thru smoke fields, reveal skills, reveal when thief does damage etc etc and the response is sentries can be avoided. Seriously this games doomed lmao.

You claimed that you're hard capped on stealth in camps, which is false.
Sorry, but stealth in PvP and WvW should be hard capped at 3s, period.
You're also wrong about sentries, watchtowers, paints and other sources providing "environmental" Marked that reveals stealthed characters, it's not its primal function to be a counter to that mechanic. Marked first and foremost is used to provide information about enemy troops, the revealed is by-product that was demanded. 
 

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

their version of great balance would be sentries covering 100% of wvw limiting stealth to 2 secs  and unavoidable literally killing thief class which is ok cu they don't play it.

You seem to be projecting great anger towards the sentries. 

They're only doing their job.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Jitters.9401]

On 6/29/2022 at 10:43 AM, kash.9213 said:

I don't think it's a big loss unless those players were on a crutch

I am d/d  d/d....well was. Now my thief is unplayable. 

I routinely would  be in the middle of multiple enemies fighting. Thieves have zero block skills/traits. Zero invulnerable. Zero passive skills like aegis.

 

I used withdraw and stealth on heal, but considering how often I was in a reveal state by enemy traits/skills/traps it was not even close to being a "crutch ". It was just something that if it worked, it helped out but was no ultimate godlike skill.

[Svarty.8019]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:45 PM, Nirari.4827 said:

Yes they are.

Pleps and Noobs are save now 🙂

Why am I not convinced?

[Sahne.6950]

Thief and mainly Deadeye have received a MASSIVE buff with the Shadowarts changes. You have alot more initiative then you had before. Vallun released a Deadeye build on Guildjen.com and its disgusting. Gaining 3 Initiative, superspeed and over1k hp with EVERY dodgeroll is some serious business.... The only downside... you need to dip out of stealth. But if you manage to time the stealth good you barely get visible between your stealths, but receive all the benefits that came with the changes.... i have no clue how people think this was a nerf.

The changes shifted how you play the Thiefclass. It forces you to leave stealth more often, but boosts either your sustain with initiative or with permaprotection. For any thief that was not relying on the permastealth in the first place... this is a massive buff! Thief now has insane cleanse and the ability to maintain permanent protection..... pair that with Celestialstats and you have the perfect tank. i was looking for a tank thief for... forever kinda.... because i was playing heavyarmor tankthief in ESO... and now it finally happened.. and ohhh boyy is it strong!!!

I found a pistol/pistol Cele Daredevil build, with Bounding dodger, Trickery/ shadowarts, aristocracy rune and literal permaprotection.... !!!!this looks like the new FotM, ngl.!!!! It beats Celeharbingers, Sicém SLB, Celevirtuosos and the other kitten roaming around in WvW with ease. The value you get out of  Smokefield +Boundingdodger and then using the stealth attack thru the smokefield(multiple projectilvefinisher in smokefield + cloacked in shadow trait) is INSANE. You literally gain 4k+ hp every ~3 seconds, have permaprotection, you stealth everytime that "reveal" is gone, your enemy has permaweakness, you have 25 might, you spam blinds and have a cleanse on a level never seen before, thanks to new https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Fortitude.just doing the following simple combo over and over again, turns you into a raidboss.

Smokefield->dodge->1(->3 if running "shadowsrejuvenation" over "cover of shadows") ; Smokefield->dodge->1(->3 if running "shadowsrejuvenation" over "cover of shadows"); You can swap those traits depending if you want more sustain or damage.  They have literally turned Thief into a tank..... no cap. try it... its stupid! You can literally facetank 2 Celeharbingers xD!
I can upload a few clips of it this afternoon if anyone is interested. I have yet to loose a duell and managed to get a 4v1 in openfield yesterday..... as daredevil.... Shadowarts changes were a massive buff. it has elevated Daredevil to the new FotM condicircus bunkerspec! You just need to theorycraft a bit.Thief has defo changed, but there is huge potential. It is without a doubt stronger than before! Just the builds have changed.

The only popular build that died is imo the p/d core sindrener thief. Its really hard to pull off with the increased deception cooldowns(in wvw) and no stealth on steal.

i wish i could link the build, but they have not yet updated gw2skills.net

The build:

trickery: 3-1-3

shadowarts: 2-3-1     (leeching venoms works aswell, cloaked in shadow has more burstdamage/healing potential but leeching venoms is more consistent damage and healing) when you 100% know there is no condienemy use "1-3-2" or ("1-3-1" only if you struggle to use the extra initiative to reliably blind your opponent with your 3+smokefield and thus need the protection)

Daredevil:2-2-3

Celestial with Assasin weapons and 1 Assasin trinket(full cele might work for you, but i feel like the crit% is necesarry) - Aristocracy rune (weakness on dodge and the might on pistol 3 makes maintaining 25 might very easy)

pistol/pistol: generosity/agony

shortbow: corruption / cleansing or energy

HiS-Smokescreen-Blindingpowder-Shadowstep-Daggerstorm

!!!truffle and meat stew!!! + tuning icicle

(if you can manage that go for +precision infusions as you want to squeeze out ever crit% you possibly can)

useage: use smokefield + Bounding dodger whenever the "reveal" debuff has disappeared to gain all of the shadowarts traits nonstop. safe initiative for 5 and you will never run out of resources. shooting your stealthattack thru a smokefield + the other sa traits + escapist fortitude will keep you clean of condis and heal upwards of 4k per stealth. if you run 2-3-2 in SA you can add pistol 3 for extra might..... but thats it.... very easy. Yet again another "spam just this one button and win" condi thief build. But this time... its a permaprotection build with more than 1,3k hp/second passive healing and alot of stealth + superspeed...

^this thing right here is a BEAST, no cap. TRY IT! Vallun made a similar build a year ago, but the SA changes and aristocracy rune elevated it to a new level! its braindead ez to play and absurdly strong! I tested it against a plethora of builds and in 1vx situations... this build is a BEAST, literally facetanking multiple opponents at once.

Before anyone comes in with the: "this doesnt work" ; "its a noobstomper" ; "yada yada".... PLEASE TRY IT! This build is way stronger than it should be!

-sincerely, someone that mains thief again after dropping it for multiple years.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Salt Mode.3780]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:12 AM, MarkBecks.6453 said:

but mesmers, they stealth for longer periods,

That in the actual? A DE is complaining about Mesmers being able to stealth for longer periods...and issues with "escape"...? 

[felincyriac.5981]

there is now an even more kittenous condi daredevil build now, nice one anet..

[Khenzy.9348]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Thief and mainly Deadeye have received a MASSIVE buff with the Shadowarts changes. You have alot more initiative then you had before. Vallun released a Deadeye build on Guildjen.com and its disgusting. Gaining 3 Initiative, superspeed and over1k hp with EVERY dodgeroll is some serious business.... The only downside... you need to dip out of stealth. But if you manage to time the stealth good you barely get visible between your stealths, but receive all the benefits that came with the changes.... i have no clue how people think this was a nerf.

The changes shifted how you play the Thiefclass. It forces you to leave stealth more often, but boosts either your sustain with initiative or with permaprotection. For any thief that was not relying on the permastealth in the first place... this is a massive buff! Thief now has insane cleanse and the ability to maintain permanent protection..... pair that with Celestialstats and you have the perfect tank. i was looking for a tank thief for... forever kinda.... because i was playing heavyarmor tankthief in ESO... and now it finally happened.. and ohhh boyy is it strong!!!

I found a pistol/pistol Cele Daredevil build, with Bounding dodger, Trickery/ shadowarts, aristocracy rune and literal permaprotection.... !!!!this looks like the new FotM, ngl.!!!! It beats Celeharbingers, Sicém SLB, Celevirtuosos and the other kitten roaming around in WvW with ease. The value you get out of  Smokefield +Boundingdodger and then using the stealth attack thru the smokefield(multiple projectilvefinisher in smokefield + cloacked in shadow trait) is INSANE. You literally gain 4k+ hp every ~3 seconds, have permaprotection, you stealth everytime that "reveal" is gone, your enemy has permaweakness, you have 25 might, you spam blinds and have a cleanse on a level never seen before, thanks to new https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Fortitude.just doing the following simple combo over and over again, turns you into a raidboss.

Smokefield->dodge->1(->3 if running "shadowsrejuvenation" over "cover of shadows") ; Smokefield->dodge->1(->3 if running "shadowsrejuvenation" over "cover of shadows"); You can swap those traits depending if you want more sustain or damage.  They have literally turned Thief into a tank..... no cap. try it... its stupid! You can literally facetank 2 Celeharbingers xD!
I can upload a few clips of it this afternoon if anyone is interested. I have yet to loose a duell and managed to get a 4v1 in openfield yesterday..... as daredevil.... Shadowarts changes were a massive buff. it has elevated Daredevil to the new FotM condicircus bunkerspec! You just need to theorycraft a bit.Thief has defo changed, but there is huge potential. It is without a doubt stronger than before! Just the builds have changed.

The only popular build that died is imo the p/d core sindrener thief. Its really hard to pull off with the increased deception cooldowns(in wvw) and no stealth on steal.

i wish i could link the build, but they have not yet updated gw2skills.net

The build:

trickery: 3-1-3

shadowarts: 2-3-1     (leeching venoms works aswell, cloaked in shadow has more burstdamage/healing potential but leeching venoms is more consistent damage and healing) when you 100% know there is no condienemy use "1-3-2" or ("1-3-1" only if you struggle to use the extra initiative to reliably blind your opponent with your 3+smokefield and thus need the protection)

Daredevil:2-2-3

Celestial with Assasin weapons and 1 Assasin trinket(full cele might work for you, but i feel like the crit% is necesarry) - Aristocracy rune (weakness on dodge and the might on pistol 3 makes maintaining 25 might very easy)

pistol/pistol: generosity/agony

shortbow: corruption / cleansing or energy

HiS-Smokescreen-Blindingpowder-Shadowstep-Daggerstorm

!!!truffle and meat stew!!! + tuning icicle

(if you can manage that go for +precision infusions as you want to squeeze out ever crit% you possibly can)

useage: use smokefield + Bounding dodger whenever the "reveal" debuff has disappeared to gain all of the shadowarts traits nonstop. safe initiative for 5 and you will never run out of resources. shooting your stealthattack thru a smokefield + the other sa traits + escapist fortitude will keep you clean of condis and heal upwards of 4k per stealth. if you run 2-3-2 in SA you can add pistol 3 for extra might..... but thats it.... very easy. Yet again another "spam just this one button and win" condi thief build. But this time... its a permaprotection build with more than 1,3k hp/second passive healing and alot of stealth + superspeed...

^this thing right here is a BEAST, no cap. TRY IT! Vallun made a similar build a year ago, but the SA changes and aristocracy rune elevated it to a new level! its braindead ez to play and absurdly strong! I tested it against a plethora of builds and in 1vx situations... this build is a BEAST, literally facetanking multiple opponents at once.

Before anyone comes in with the: "this doesnt work" ; "its a noobstomper" ; "yada yada".... PLEASE TRY IT! This build is way stronger than it should be!

-sincerely, someone that mains thief again after dropping it for multiple years.

 

 

kitten, this reads like an add, and a false one at that. 

You not only don't beat Celestial Harbinger with this build, you wouldn't even be able to lower their HP below 90%. And what's worse, you're not tanking one celestial harbinger, much less two of them. Their damage coeficients are ridiculously high while doing hybrid damage, it's the perfect celestial spec.

They also have perma protection, then when Death's Carapace stacks start rolling in and with 25 might stacks, which they will have easily 100% of the time, they have like 3300 armor, 2900 power and 1800 condi damage all while they heal 500 to 600 health per second with Blight stacks AND all the while having 70 to 90% weakness uptime on you. A single Celestial Harbinger is going to roflstomp you while he/she laughs at you trying to damage him/her with your puny 2 to 3k damage Sneak Attacks every 3 seconds. 

A Celestial Virtuoso with runes of the defender alone is going to absolutely laugh at your damage as well.

You're not ever going to beat a properly played and geared Soulbeast with this build either, ever.

You don't seem to have proper game knowledge or experience to make these blunt affirmations. Or you just fought inexperienced players and based your statements on that alone.

 

[MarkBecks.6453]

7 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

That in the actual? A DE is complaining about Mesmers being able to stealth for longer periods...and issues with "escape"...? 

You clearly have missed the point, and that is that Anet took 4 seconds of dodge roll, and reduced it to 1 second without any explanation, or patch notes, or reason. Forget SA and all the other traits and skills, Deadeye rifle is a SPECIALIST BUILD that has nothing to do with anything else they did, NOTHING, its only pertinent to Deadeye Rifle and this change if you run SB, pistol pistol, nulifies the skillset for rifle. I understand I can tweak all the other skills, equip a SB, equip a staff, but then that's not a kitten deadeye is it, its just your average thief or whatever. I didnt make leggy stuff for my deadeye and spend hours honing it and working with it to get the best balance to get the carpet pulled from under my feet without at least an explanation, thats all I have been asking.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

9 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

That in the actual? A DE is complaining about Mesmers being able to stealth for longer periods...and issues with "escape"...? 

How did I miss that. 

Well, its not surprising. When PU granted 100% more stealth duration the main qqers were... You guessed it, thieves.