Just put the Skyscale in the shop [Merged]

[Labjax.2465]

3 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Hey lets put everything in the shop,legendary armor sets weapons trinkets too, I mean why play the game when you can buy it right? No how many times does it need to be said, it anet goes the p2w route im done  and im sure many others will be also 

Idk, I mean I don't want all stuff to be in the gem store, but gen 1 legendary weapons have long been in the gem store in a roundabout way via gems to gold and that never stopped me from making 2.

I do think psychologically, there is a slight difference between something being solid direct in the gem store and being purchasable with gems to gold from TP because the extra steps obfuscate the value of the item and allow it to fluctuate, whereas direct sale says "this is now what it's worth, forever." And just materially too because the "stock" for the item still has to come from people playing the game, whereas for buying direct from store the item has infinite supply (unless they've artificially rotated it out >.>).

I guess I am trying to look at how such is fundamentally different because if not technically pay to win, this game is already chock full of pay to convenience. I don't like it, but I choose to play the game knowing full well it's there.

But getting back to skyscale, personally I think the worst parts of it are:

- the time gated food and waiting for npc stuff (I know its time gates use to be worse, but still)

- the 3 different collections at the beginning in dragonfall that have you going over a lot of the same territory for each one

These are just what I'd call "oops we wanted it to be longer" design. Nothing interesting about it, just making you wait or retrace your steps because "it should be longer." That is not to say doing 3 different collections is objectively uninteresting (I know some people do like that stuff) but the way in which it's making you do them one at a time in the same map, so you can't be efficient about it, much less discover them in the same go if you are taking it as an exploration challenge, is in my view dull design.

The time gates part could at least be alleviated by just removing them, or making it, ya know, 5 mins if it's too annoying from a coding standpoint to remove them completely.

The collections part, I know some of it's tied to dialogue, so I can hear the complaints of breaking continuity and lore, but if it let you do the 1st three at the same time, I think that'd make the whole thing a lot less painful. Maybe have some kind of mode where you can talk to G and say "I don't care about story, let me do the 1st three at the same time" and it unlocks them for you immediately.

[XenMaster.7165]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:24 PM, Squeesidhe.4761 said:

The unlock quests for the Skyscale mount are beyond tedious. Just put the mount unlock in the Gem store and I'll just buy the damned thing. 

As long they give me free 2k gem after 2 weeks of farming that mount then yeah.

[Orddan.1648]

ABSOLUTLEY NOT.

 

First of all it's not a necessity. So if you want it that bad, work for it. If you can't or don't want to work for it, then you won't get it, plain and simple.

This game already lacks high value high incentive rewards. People farm for SKINS in other games, not just one base mount. 

Mmorpgs need some sort of grind, you gotta put in the work, the time and the effort to EARN a reward. Now I do agree the collection itself needs some changes (the timegate). 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Orddan.1648

[Kimmel Shore.3408]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:50 PM, Labjax.2465 said:

I've said it before I believe and I'll say it again: make the skyscale itself as easy to get as the initial PoF mounts and then make the big quest thing into a special skin unlock. That way there is still a reason to do it that people can "show off," but the utility is no longer hidden behind so much annoyance. Same with warclaw and WvW as well. Same with griffon and roller beetle.

The thing about mounts is, on top of the utility, some of them like griffon are just plain fun to use.  Or like roller beetle, there is potentially hours of content in doing the races and mastering them and it's locked behind a time-consuming collection.

Hiding fun is taking a gamble that the player will stick around through stuff they find unfun long enough to get to the fun. And sure, we can argue some people might find the collection itself fun in an RPG way, but others won't. They will just wonder why this thing that is supposed to make their game more fun is hidden behind a slog (and a sometimes expensive one at that, in gold farming and whatnot).

I realize there is a tradeoff here in design, but I don't know what else to say about it because they're the ones who made these mounts so useful and/or fun to use.

Also, before anyone tries to make this into a personal thing, I have all of the mounts in the game.

I have the same opinion when it comes to what should require chores in an MMO.  Aesthetic rewards should require chores, i.e. replaying old content or doing quests with no strategy involved, but gameplay elements should just be given to you when you reach that stage of the game.  If the game needs more people to replay old content, one option is making a material exclusively drop on each map that is an essential ingredient in the aesthetic rewards, so farmers will keep playing all maps, while people who are just doing your MMO for gameplay can enjoy the gameplay straightaway.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Kimmel Shore.3408

[Crono.4197]

Heck why do we even play this game anymore? I am offended that I have to press keys on the keyboard to play this game! I don't even wanna press W A S D to move my character anymore. ArenaNet should add bots in the gem store that allow your character to play itself because I'm too lazy to play the game!

[Maltyrius.2961]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:00 AM, ASP.8093 said:

If you do the "Return To" achieves (for a free legendary) you don't have to grind hearts for it.

This x10. I was lucky and played enough on the maps that when I went all in on the mount all I’d have to do was 15 min of gathering wood/ore and had my 250. 
 

The part that bugged me was the dwarven ruin puzzle. Got it done just fine, but dropping those keys 1 at a time made my jaw clench.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 7/5/2022 at 8:10 PM, Taclism.2406 said:

Literally no, I could do both with griffin aswell, it would just requiere more ellaborate maneuvers.
But I like the firebrand comparison : Both are crutches for laziness / low skill.

okay next time if you see someone scaling a cliff or something with a springer ask them if they have a skysclae in 9 out of 10 people will say no. anyone who scales a wall with  sykscale would not do so with a springer anymore.

[Artemis.8034]

Im just going to say it, I did the skyscale back when it came out the first time. It was more timegated then. I did the second skyscale after the changes and it was way faster. On my third one now, its not a bad timegate armor is far more of a time gate.  How long before people start demanding the wvw leggy set or the raid sets be sold in the shop because its too timegated. These are rewards for playing the content. I will never understand , why play a game if you dont want to play the game??

[The Greyhawk.9107]

4 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Im just going to say it, I did the skyscale back when it came out the first time. It was more timegated then. I did the second skyscale after the changes and it was way faster. On my third one now, its not a bad timegate armor is far more of a time gate.  How long before people start demanding the wvw leggy set or the raid sets be sold in the shop because its too timegated. These are rewards for playing the content. I will never understand , why play a game if you dont want to play the game??

Multiple accounts I presume? 

Got the skyscale before the timegating was turned down the first time as well, was a little annoying yes but even then in its hardest form it was no where near as bad as the OP claims.

Edited July 9, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Squeesidhe.4761]

Me: "You know, maybe I've been way too harsh on Anet. This actually isn't so bad. I'd still like them to work out some of the mechanical jank that's persisted for years, but the collection itself is kinda fun."

 

Anet: "Acrophobia"

 

"Me. God kitten it. Never mind."

[Heraldusluminare.2946]

As someone who (once upon a time) had to "grind" out the Skyscale myself... personally, I don't see the harm in having it sold in the shop now.

 

Not only does selling it make good business sense - I think it's also a great way to allow people who are unwilling (or unable) to farm the mount in the "traditional" way, to enjoy the content ANet has created.

 

Besides... it's been what, three years since this mount was released? I think it's safe to say that most of us Skyscale pioneers have already had a good, long ride with this mount. It's time for us to hand over the reins and let those who want to acquire it in an alternative way, join in on the fun too. 🙂

 

PS: I guess there will be some logistical problems for people who are halfway through the collection, but perhaps we can compromise and allow some of these collection items to be sold?

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

There have been a lot of bad ideas floated on the forums, I mean BAAAAAD, but this is probably the worst one to-date.

[Gibson.4036]

10 hours ago, Heraldusluminare.2946 said:

As someone who (once upon a time) had to "grind" out the Skyscale myself... personally, I don't see the harm in having it sold in the shop now.

 

Not only does selling it make good business sense - I think it's also a great way to allow people who are unwilling (or unable) to farm the mount in the "traditional" way, to enjoy the content ANet has created.

 

Besides... it's been what, three years since this mount was released? I think it's safe to say that most of us Skyscale pioneers have already had a good, long ride with this mount. It's time for us to hand over the reins and let those who want to acquire it in an alternative way, join in on the fun too. 🙂

 

PS: I guess there will be some logistical problems for people who are halfway through the collection, but perhaps we can compromise and allow some of these collection items to be sold?

Skyscale treats, food, and grow lamp can be purchased on the trading post from other players. You can always gem to gold and do this.

That means you can already skip all of troublesome skyscales as well as the charged quartz timegates by paying ANet.

[Nekro.3096]

On 7/3/2022 at 1:27 AM, disco.9302 said:

I agree, skyscale should be in the gem store. 50k gems to make it fair for all the people who already have completed the quest line. Anything less would be ridiculous.

50k gems? KEK You're havin' a laugh. That's ~$600 for a mount... xD

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 7/2/2022 at 10:24 AM, Squeesidhe.4761 said:

The unlock quests for the Skyscale mount are beyond tedious. Just put the mount unlock in the Gem store and I'll just buy the damned thing. 

Earn it like we did or go without it. Those are your options~ I just ran my partner through it and it took us maybe a week. 

[DarkSkysz.3521]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:01 PM, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

not just an arbitrary gold cost, time gate, and a grindy collection.

Like...any other legendary collection?

  

35 minutes ago, necromancin.2396 said:

50k gems? KEK You're havin' a laugh. That's ~$600 for a mount... xD

Thats a fair price. Don't wanna pay? Do the collection 😃

 

 

Anyway... lets be honest. It's an ONE TIME ONLY grind that is totally worth it.

If you had to redo it every X days, then I would understand.

Edited July 13, 2022 by DarkSkysz.3521

[Ashen.2907]

On 7/8/2022 at 6:11 PM, Artemis.8034 said:

Im just going to say it, I did the skyscale back when it came out the first time. It was more timegated then. I did the second skyscale after the changes and it was way faster. On my third one now, its not a bad timegate armor is far more of a time gate.  How long before people start demanding the wvw leggy set or the raid sets be sold in the shop because its too timegated. These are rewards for playing the content. I will never understand , why play a game if you dont want to play the game??

I enjoy playing the game. Scavenger hunts and chores designed to be chores dont feel like playing the game, this one or any other, to me. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Nine Inch Snails.7963]

Just put the shop in the skyscale.  Every time you mount the skyscale the gems store opens with the latest offerings.  J/K   😀

But if someone buys a skyscale in the gem store, if that ever was an option,  that's the way it should work for them.  😄

Edited July 13, 2022 by Nine Inch Snails.7963

[Silent.6137]

4 hours ago, Nine Inch Snails.7963 said:

Just put the shop in the skyscale.  Every time you mount the skyscale the gems store opens with the latest offerings.  J/K   😀

But if someone buys a skyscale in the gem store, if that ever was an option,  that's the way it should work for them.  😄

And the only skin available and exclusive to them are Whales so everyone will recognize their generosity and hard work in getting this mount.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

8 hours ago, necromancin.2396 said:

50k gems? KEK You're havin' a laugh. That's ~$600 for a mount... xD

 

[Rysinsun.7306]

Removed.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Rysinsun.7306
Can't be botehred.

[Gibson.4036]

10 minutes ago, Rysinsun.7306 said:

 Lets face it, this mount is needed because if you're part of a train and don't have it? Good luck keeping up.

The only two trains I’ve encountered that require flying mounts to keep up are the Dragonfall post-meta champs and the Drizzlewood cache keepers.

With the cache keepers, griffon is far superior.

Every hp train I’ve been on required raptor only. Meta escorts can be done on foot. Bounties can be reached with waypoints and ground mounts. Dragonfall and Dragons Stand has updrafts and gliding.

What trains require skyscale?

Edited July 13, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/11/2022 at 8:32 PM, Squeesidhe.4761 said:

Me: "You know, maybe I've been way too harsh on Anet. This actually isn't so bad. I'd still like them to work out some of the mechanical jank that's persisted for years, but the collection itself is kinda fun."

 

Anet: "Acrophobia"

 

"Me. God kitten it. Never mind."

You know, I suffer from acrophobia or fear of heights and it translates into games as well. So before there were mounts there were jumping puzzles already. I still get sweaty hands from doing most of them and there are a couple of them that are so bad that I had to let my wife do them to get the achievements.

But most of them I did myself. It took me a loooong time to get the one in Siren's Landing done. I still don't care to repeat it. The one in Ember Bay I couldn't complete on my own, however, I did most of it on my own and just had help to complete the last few jumps. It took me 2 days to get to that point though. Two days of doing nothing but that jumping puzzle.

The thing is, that I saw JPs as a challenge and not a barrier. I've lived a thousand fears while doing it, mind you. It wasn't easy and still isn't easy. But it did get easier. And that meant dealing with heights in whatever form got easier in the game for me. But the fear of heights isn't gone. There are still a number of things that trigger it.

Now, I'm not saying that "I could do it so anybody else can", but I am saying that when you run into limitations, it's ok to ask for help. The larger population are able to deal with this sort of thing because they don't have acrophobia. And I would really be sad for them if the game would be changed to make everything "acrophobia-proof".

Edited July 13, 2022 by Gehenna.3625

[Rysinsun.7306]

Removed.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Rysinsun.7306
Can't be bothered.

[bruakumfd.4817]

I love how so many people probably never actually looked into the gem shop because a lot of items aren't just about making your character look nice. They actually impact gameplay in some way, which is the definition of P2W. Let's be honest. You can buy legendary weapons, which are supposed to have even worse grind than Ascended Weapons. Or do we not acknowledge that because you can download the game for free? (You'll just be bombarded with restrictions until you buy an expac.) 

 

Then again, I haven't seen anybody else mention how Jim Sterling once complained about the mount skins. Yeah, throw money to play a guessing game or shell out just for nobody to comment on it.

 

I also love how many people are saying that because they suffered through a grind, everybody else should do the same. I say this as somebody who bought PoF on sale, and I've been revisiting the content regularly for a few years. I just started because Descent wasn't too hard, and already it feels as though if you don't have the griffin, you're better off not doing it. And while I can't rule out the possibility of keeping at it, it's already not feeling worth it. 

 

Of course, I can't say that 50,000 gems is a reasonable price. I appreciate you trying to be reasonable; as somebody else pointed out that's about $600. I don't know if I don't point out how that's 2-3 paychecks or if I should call it real animal money. I do think something could done about the timegating though because Blizzard managed to pull it off. And I think this was before the merger.