Hellz.3058 Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: And I'm pretty sure a part of the sPvP community would argue that we are in an heavy condi meta. The thing is that this trait has been here for, what, 7-8 years and people have been sleeping on it because "water traitline is mandatory!" or "Earth traitline is crap!". Stone heart wasn't useless a year ago, elementalist players just weren't willing to try and use it. You've got ton of example across all professions were people just aren't willing to give a try on things that are potentially OP simply because they are sheeps that follow what the god "metabattle" tell them is the best (forgeting that this "god" tell nothing but what a few players agree to share with the community). In any case, if it's currently an "issue" because "the meta is power", then all people have to do is shift toward condi build and thus a condi meta for this trait to be forgotten yet again. You shouldn't ask rock to be nerfed because your scisor can't deal with it, you should just use paper to deal with it. Let me rephrase, it WAS a useless trait to anyone above a Plat level in a core necro/ scourge meta. If something is overperforming, it SHOULD be adjusted. That's how balancing works in the first place. Sincerely, an Ele player. Edited July 11, 2022 by Hellz.3058 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) people are crying for ele nerfs...🤢 the second ele sees a glimps of "being useful" people come in and demand nerfs.... The second they nerf Stoneheart.... it is BYE BYE for support tempest. Why you guys hate ele? People complaining about stoneheart... what the duck xD! Ele was dogtier for so long... the second SUPPORT Tempest becomes viable.... people want to nerf it to the ground.... we are not even talking about a oppressive sidenoder or anything.... we are literally talking about a support... We are not even talking about a trait that affects others... or deals damage... or anything like that.... The tempest cant even dish out healing should he not switch to water periodicaly...you could only heal your allies with you healingskill once.... and from there on a ele sitting in earth is completly useless.... he could maybe overload earth... or use a aura from magneticshield... but that is about all the support a tempest can possibly do while in earth... sitting in earth is only good while you are being focused and try to survive. If we take that away...... yeah... Good night tempest, was nice seeing you in MAT for once.... back to Coreguard sup only! Tempest can barely compete with Coreguard..... if stoneheart is gone... tempest is gone. period. If they should ever decide to get rid of stoneheart... they have to replace it with a trait that reduces critdamage. the reduction gets applied by your protection, so you can share it via aurashare with your teammates. If you guys want to get rid of stoneheart... there needs to be a HEFTY compensation! Because right now stoneheart is the rope that holds Tempest in S-Tier. Edited July 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said: The amount of tempest coping xd Yet no one can explain why a trait that's been in the game for years and never talked about is now problematic when earth attunement hasn't even been buffed significantly in anyway. A trait that is easily countered by conditions since earth lacks any cleansing. It also lacks damage and provides weak condi pressure. And remember you have to sit in earth for this trait to work. 7 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) Double post, apologies. Edited July 11, 2022 by iKeostuKen.2738 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellz.3058 Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said: Yet no one can explain why a trait that's been in the game for years and never talked about is now problematic when earth attunement hasn't even been buffed significantly in anyway. A trait that is easily countered by conditions since earth lacks any cleansing. It also lacks damage and provides weak condi pressure. And remember you have to sit in earth for this trait to work. Because the meta changed to be primarily ranged/ power based so now the trait needs to be adjusted to something reasonable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hellz.3058 said: Because the meta changed to be primarily ranged/ power based so now the trait needs to be adjusted to something reasonable. you sir seriously need to stop. Stoneheart is NOT overtuned. If anything they need to change it so it doesnt mitigate "on crit" effects. it should scale down the damage to the level of a non-crit. But it can count as a crit to trigger traits of the attacker. Stoneheart only has value while sitting in earth...and a support tempest sitting in earth has no value to the team. If the tempest wants to actively support, he has to leave earth.... that is your window to attack them.... This whole thread is one BIIIG l2p issue. Before they nerf Stoneheart they have to nuke Guardian out of orbit..... because if they nerf stoneheart without touching coreguard..... we would be back to guardian being the only support. Edited July 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950 5 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellz.3058 Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: you sir seriously need to stop. Stoneheart is NOT overtuned. If anything they need to change it so it doesnt mitigate "on crit" effects. it should scale down the damage to the level of a non-crit. But it can count as a crit to trigger traits of the attacker. Stoneheart only has value while sitting in earth...and a support tempest sitting in earth has no value to the team. If the tempest wants to actively support, he has to leave earth.... that is your window to attack them.... This whole thread is one BIIIG l2p issue. Before they nerf Stoneheart they have to nuke Guardian out of orbit..... because if they nerf stoneheart without touching coreguard..... we would be back to guardian being the only support. No one said its used exclusively by support tempest. This is used in several condition tempest / bunker catalyst builds. Otherwise, this thread makes no sense at all... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) so you are really telling me that condition tempest is a problem in pvp right now? i mean... i just came back from 1 week vacation and have not played for a whole week, besides some wvw yesterday.... but that sound absurd to me. are we really complaining about Earth-condition-Tempest? and Catalyst? like... did i miss something!? since when are we complaining about ele? isnt harbinger and Willywonka still around? Are you really trying to nerf elementalist? like... come on xD give eles a break. they were lurking on the verge of being useless... let them have some fun. Edited July 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity.2876 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 People used to ignore this trait but after nerfs it starts to look op. Not that it is. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftFootpaws.9134 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) No one plays Tempest as anything but a support in Ranked, please play some actual PvP. One player playing another Tempest build in one out of ten games isn't significant. Edited July 11, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, Hellz.3058 said: Because the meta changed to be primarily ranged/ power based so now the trait needs to be adjusted to something reasonable. Or maybe the meta of the game currently is just in a terrible state. So instead of nerfing a no problem trait they actually fix the real issues with their system. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 The situation is fairly linear. >Focus Tempest, goes Air and gets their entire team with shock aura, other team wastes all their cd to try and up keep up with their pressure. >Tempest proceeds to go earth and tank, soaks all damage then proceeeds to earth shield pull the entire team fight into a spot, team gets deleted because no CD's, if team still has anything Invul and tank even more. Add multiple magnetic auras into the mix with clears if theres any condition. >"GUYS WHY CAN'T YOU FOCUS??? Y'ALL SO BAD" then team throws after having everyone scattered because nothing gets achieved. >Ezgame once again because there can only be so much communication, when there's so many steps to take before you can even start doing any meaningful damage to a certain type of spec. This calls for condition melee specs almost. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) Did folks have another memory aneurism? The reason Stone Heart appears more strong was because damage and pretty much everything was nerfed 2020 onwards, which inadvertently buffed tanky builds…this is why necro became much strong too. Edited July 11, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Hellz.3058 said: Let me rephrase, it WAS a useless trait to anyone above a Plat level in a core necro/ scourge meta. If something is overperforming, it SHOULD be adjusted. That's how balancing works in the first place. Sincerely, an Ele player. Ridiculous. A trait that didn't change 1 bit in 7-8 years suddenly see some playtime for what? a few day? People didn't even tried to adjust their build yet to face it and you're there advocating for a nerf and talking about "balance"? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 stone heart is degen trash and needs to get deleted 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Marshal.4098 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) So long as Balanced Stance doesn't get affected either XoX Edited July 11, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098 Used caps for emote to increase dramatic effect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semak.7481 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: Ridiculous. A trait that didn't change 1 bit in 7-8 years suddenly see some playtime for what? a few day? People didn't even tried to adjust their build yet to face it and you're there advocating for a nerf and talking about "balance"? Reminds me about chaotic interrupting before the trait was "reworked" to do nothing, literally nothing, but trait existed and havent seen play before condi mirage with condi duration amulet, so... ? 3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said: No one plays Tempest as anything but a support in Ranked, please play some actual PvP. Support espec is being played...as support... big surprise /s 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny.7260 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) Stone Heart needs changed. At least to prevent camping of the attunement. Maybe something like Protection provides critical hit immunity but Protection to self is reduced. (Similar to how Improved Alacrity on Chronomancer improves Alacrity but reduces duration.) That way it is still possible to get benefit, somewhat buff, and also provides unique effects to the boon. The trait encourages an unhealthy playstyle, doesn't matter whichever way you slice it. Change how it functions, but don't kill the idea. Kills off attunement camping. Edited July 11, 2022 by Vinny.7260 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 38 minutes ago, Vinny.7260 said: Stone Heart needs changed. At least to prevent camping of the attunement. Maybe something like Protection provides critical hit immunity but Protection to self is reduced. (Similar to how Improved Alacrity on Chronomancer improves Alacrity but reduces duration.) That way it is still possible to get benefit, somewhat buff, and also provides unique effects to the boon. The trait encourages an unhealthy playstyle, doesn't matter whichever way you slice it. Change how it functions, but don't kill the idea. Kills off attunement camping. Idk, attunement camping is kinda the point of Tempest. You wait 5 sec to get your overload, then channel for 4 sec. All other specializations like core, weaver and catalyst support quick swapping. Most of those builds use arcane to get swapping benefits. But tempest doesn't use arcane Honestly it's like Stone Heart was made specifically for tempest. Or vice versa 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 8 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said: Did folks have another memory aneurism? The reason Stone Heart appears more strong was because damage and pretty much everything was nerfed 2020 onwards, which inadvertently buffed tanky builds…this is why necro became much strong too. This is why a lot of content ended up playable, I wouldn't say Stone Heart is the exact cause of complains. Generally Earth Shield strong skills and Shock Aura dominant presence is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 On 7/11/2022 at 8:06 AM, Sahne.6950 said: The second they nerf Stoneheart.... it is BYE BYE for support tempest. Why you guys hate ele? If support tempest can't be played without this trait then something is very wrong. 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny.7260 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said: If support tempest can't be played without this trait then something is very wrong. Exactly. I do like the trait concept. Being able to get immunity to critical hits is a fair counter into power damage. Especially for a profession that is using Light Armor and a low HP pool. The issue becomes when it's encouraging players to do a less interactive play and just camp Earth Attunement. I've heard all the arguments about "But you're locking yourself out of your attunements." Do you have fun doing that? My suggestion above is honestly adding QoL to Tempest, adding a counter to a very passive trait, and buffing other avenues of using Earth. On 7/11/2022 at 3:22 PM, Stallic.2397 said: Honestly it's like Stone Heart was made specifically for tempest. Or vice versa This. This is the problem. Similar case with Powerful Auras. These traits are traits that are niche to the specific elite specialization, only work in a remotely useful way with this profession. Making Stone Heart improve Protection to grant immunity to critical hits (but also reducing incoming duration) would open up so many other doors while also giving it a viable counter to boon rip/converts. Edited July 12, 2022 by Vinny.7260 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Nah stone heart is fine. In 1v1 sitchuation it can be a pain to deal with. In a match it's wiser to ignore that player if they are solo caping and go smash people in the team fight. Stone heart users are kinda slow so if a team is good enough they can outplay that one stone heart user easy. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellz.3058 Posted July 13, 2022 Author Share Posted July 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said: Nah stone heart is fine. In 1v1 sitchuation it can be a pain to deal with. In a match it's wiser to ignore that player if they are solo caping and go smash people in the team fight. Stone heart users are kinda slow so if a team is good enough they can outplay that one stone heart user easy. If the solution to a trait is to avoid the player, then you're literally proving my point 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sltrmhcaoou.2305 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 12:37 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said: Change it to "while in earth attunement you're immune to damaging conditions". Then see how long it lasts until dozens of qq threads appear. so old resistance but worse? when you really think about it res was utterly broken for so long and almost nobody talked about it xd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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