Honestly speaking, Thief isn't worth playing anymore

[itspomf.9523]

And I say this as a thief main since before launch.

 

Recently made the mistake of picking up my Mesmer again and remembering I gave them a setup for critical hits with greatsword and dual swords.  Gave me some fond memories of 2012 and going absolutely ham with magic lasers (even if greatsword isn't quite so great anymore), but then I swapped to swords and dang, these things were so smooth, Rytlock's fur has competition.

 

But what I want to know is this:  why can a Mesmer with only 59% crit rate, 206% crit damage, and 2168 power (which is actually REALLY low by most standards) hit for an upwards of 8000 damage with Mind Spike, but meanwhile a Thief with a sword, 76% crit rate (96% effective), 225% crit damage, and 2813 power struggles to even break 3500 damage -- less than half of that number?

 

Is it because Crippling Strike inflicts Crippled and Weakness despite only doing 447 base damage with a 1.3x power coefficient, compared to Mind Spike's 734 base damage and 2.0x coefficient on a target with no boons (and the preceding attacks inflicting Vulnerability)?

 

Because I distinctly remember hearing again and again that Thief was supposed to be a "high risk, high reward" play-style, yet Mesmer gets Blurred Frenzy (1128 damage, 3.0768x coefficient) with a 1s evasion window built in which can be traited to an 8-second cooldown, and has clones which can soak up damage, meanwhile Thief just has to hope they timed their dodge or stun/daze correctly.

Edited July 16, 2022 by itspomf.9523

[saerni.2584]

Thief is worth playing if you like thief. 
 

That Mesmer is a lot more vulnerable if they are running some kind of oneshot build. 
 

And, sure those clones soak up damage (not much), but they are a weakness (bouncing projectiles bounce off clones, can use a clone for CnD) as much as a strength.

 

I can't sit here and say all the design choices (or slow balancing) aren't an issue for thief. But a lot of professions are in a similar boat. 

[Wolfshade.9251]

Seems perfectly fine for farming onions in open world.

On a serious note, condi damage is in a good spot with specter (not really thief spec but whatever), deadeye useless as ever besides niche uses (still my main, i dont care it's useless) and daredevil... exists. Sucks that the plan to make specter a valid support option failed so terrifically, I was really hoping for a raid heal thief build.

[Kodama.6453]

Yeah, sword on thief definitely could use some buffs. I guess is that it was supposed to be more of a defensive weapon for thief, considering that it has a condi cleanse, evade frames and weakness on auto attack. But it still could use some more damage on some of it's abilities.

[Doggie.3184]

I stuck with Thief this whole time since beta but after this patch I maxed out my Engi's inventory slots and started building him up and even made him a clone in appearance to Thief. Life's 100x easier as a MCH and you got a ton of builds to pick from and hell~ you don't even need to cover your bars in Wells to give party Alacrity, you just auto-attack for it, lol. And for PvE farming Engi Rifle (with bonus jade mech AoE) totally obliterates Shortbow for tagging mobs and you got a ton of mobility without much/any sacrifice. Easily the best tagging weapon in game now.

Honestly if they wanted to be fair and put other classes at such standards, Thief should give perma-alacrity to party through just Siphon. It's insane how easy MCH spreads it with just their F skill and AA. 

CDPS Specter is high but you don't even get to do that with your new Wells. You have to deal with lame poison Trap arming time which is tedius, and venoms that give 0 utility, no mobility and using the same weapons on both sets for swap-gimmick and have no AoE while Engi just has everything you ever need at once. I just don't see a reason to not main Engi right now unless you just really like Guardian or Necro a lot.

I joined an EoD Strike Team today that just happened to be half Engi half Necro. Community already adjusting.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[andrewlcl.8176]

Are you kidding? 

 

I've dabbled with thief for about 4 weeks. First as s/d, then as DE and p/p + p/d condi DD (switching as I feel like it), and it's some of the most fun I've had in awhile. 

 

No, I didn't buy the recent expansion, hence have no access to some of the 1-press win builds in there. There's easier things we could play. Sword could probably be more fluid and punishing (even if already strong in its own right). But speaking as someone who has previously been on guardian/ele/necro, thief is definitely still worth playing. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by andrewlcl.8176

[Dadnir.5038]

11 hours ago, itspomf.9523 said:

Thief was supposed to be a "high risk, high reward" play-style

Come on, we all know that's a marketting argument (like most of the flavor text the devs grace us with).

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

18 hours ago, saerni.2584 said:

Thief is worth playing if you like thief. 
 

That Mesmer is a lot more vulnerable if they are running some kind of oneshot build. 
 

And, sure those clones soak up damage (not much), but they are a weakness (bouncing projectiles bounce off clones, can use a clone for CnD) as much as a strength.

 

I can't sit here and say all the design choices (or slow balancing) aren't an issue for thief. But a lot of professions are in a similar boat. 

this is why i moved to nms for a bit, till the community can work itself out and find out what works and wont work. wouldnt hurt to see some changes to SA again to adjust stealth access. supposedly Josh is gonna post more soon*

[Chips.7968]

Thief mobility was the big selling point, but now everything can have super (or even superior) mobility... and at that point thief attacks have become damned weak. 

 

Still think it's all to "encourage" people to buy the expansion to be competitive. I'd rather have a refund, it's not good. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Chips.7968

[Mincsk.6028]

Agree with op. I abandoned my thieves.

[Kodama.6453]

6 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

Thief mobility was the big selling point, but now everything can have super (or even superior) mobility... and at that point thief attacks have become damned weak. 

 

Still think it's all to "encourage" people to buy the expansion to be competitive. I'd rather have a refund, it's not good. 

Well, thief mobility is still a big selling point.

Specter literally got a shadow step on every single utility skill.

[Chips.7968]

12 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, thief mobility is still a big selling point.

Specter literally got a shadow step on every single utility skill.

Didn't say thief mobility wasn't, did I? I don't see where I did. Confusing point you are trying to make?

I pointed out that its not unique, or necessarily even the best anymore - the new stuff has excellent mobility, excellent damage , and of course they rock a shed load of boons because boons are no longer boons but standard. So at that point, s/d thief is left... wanting. Significantly. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Chips.7968

[ASP.8093]

I think thief core weapons base damage could use a moderate tune-up but it's a really good profession besides that.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Thief just seems like a 2nd rate melee ranger and willbender right now. They do everything but better. Aside from blind spam.

[Lighter.5631]

lol what?

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 7/20/2022 at 6:22 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, thief mobility is still a big selling point.

Specter literally got a shadow step on every single utility skill.

Yes, they did. But go fight a few rounds vs a harbinger on core S/D and you'll see what the other posters in this thread are getting at. 

[Ragnar.4257]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:02 PM, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Thief just seems like a 2nd rate melee ranger and willbender right now. They do everything but better. Aside from blind spam.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1540551945?t=3h29m31s

🤣

Meta is to run 3x thieves in a 5 man team, thief-mains still insisting it's not even c-tier viable.

If any other class was being stacked 3 on a team, you'd be losing your minds.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Kodama.6453]

30 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

🤣

And people calling mechanist broken in PvP, lmao.

Basically non existent in the tournament, alongside all other engineer specs. And the game I saw in that stream where a mechanist got played, they lost RIDICULOUSLY hard.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Mincsk.6028]

10 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1540551945?t=3h29m31s

🤣

Meta is to run 3x thieves in a 5 man team, thief-mains still insisting it's not even c-tier viable.

If any other class was being stacked 3 on a team, you'd be losing your minds.

 I main roaming wvw thief and get exploded by most everything so I stopped playing them. They have no room in zerg meta and now are pretty weak roaming. That is why I agreed with op. Also wvw thief ate the entire stealth nerf, spvp still has faster stealth cooldowns I think.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Mincsk.6028

[Dante.1508]

I disagree, i never played thief until specter so now i really enjoy thief..

[ASP.8093]

23 hours ago, Mincsk.6028 said:

 I main roaming wvw thief and get exploded by most everything so I stopped playing them. They have no room in zerg meta and now are pretty weak roaming. That is why I agreed with op. Also wvw thief ate the entire stealth nerf, spvp still has faster stealth cooldowns I think.

Nope. Compared to WvW, SPvP has +1 second longer Revealed cooldown globally, and significantly more nerfed Smoke Screen, Seal Area, Signet of Agility, and Shadow Portal skills.

Some key differences in playstyle apply, though:

• WvW solo roamers often seek duels or outnumbered fights. SPvP thieves generally don't — they're looking for the "+1," creating moments where their team can snowball by turning a momentary numbers advantage into a few kills.

• Everyone is playing with nerfed gear in SPvP, which I think hurts thieves more than it helps on the whole, but it does mean that "condi tank" and "pocket healer" type builds are way, way squishier in SPvP.

• Dithering around in stealth for 2-5 minutes straight waiting for a chance to grab a camp or knock over a dolyak is a viable strategy in WvW. You will absolutely lose the game and get yelled at by all of your team mates if you attempt that in SPvP.

Edited July 26, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Mincsk.6028]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:54 AM, ASP.8093 said:

Nope. Compared to WvW, SPvP has +1 second longer Revealed cooldown globally, and significantly more nerfed Smoke Screen, Seal Area, Signet of Agility, and Shadow Portal skills.

Some key differences in playstyle apply, though:

• WvW solo roamers often seek duels or outnumbered fights. SPvP thieves generally don't — they're looking for the "+1," creating moments where their team can snowball by turning a momentary numbers advantage into a few kills.

• Everyone is playing with nerfed gear in SPvP, which I think hurts thieves more than it helps on the whole, but it does mean that "condi tank" and "pocket healer" type builds are way, way squishier in SPvP.

• Dithering around in stealth for 2-5 minutes straight waiting for a chance to grab a camp or knock over a dolyak is a viable strategy in WvW. You will absolutely lose the game and get yelled at by all of your team mates if you attempt that in SPvP.

Well, that's odd perma stealth isn't a problem in spvp. I wonder why they wanted to nerf perma stealth then? Maybe wvw? 

[senftube.6081]

I deleted my thief a couple days ago. 😄 This class brings nothing to the table. In Roaming there are other classes which are much more versatile and some simply stronger + easier to play. In zergplay this class is utterly bad to play. Every Spec is a gimmicky kitten as always where other classes get super strong or funnier new things.

 

Thief is ded and everyone should reroll to the better classes.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Yunari.9065

[kash.9213]

23 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

I deleted my thief a couple days ago. 😄 This class brings nothing to the table. In Roaming there are other classes which are much more versatile and some simply stronger + easier to play. In zergplay this class is utterly bad to play. Every Spec is a gimmicky kitten as always where other classes get super strong or funnier new things.

 

Thief is ded and everyone should reroll to the better classes.

That's just wrong. I hope your poor thief didn't die believing that. Specter with SA especially is strong right now in squad and zerg fights but even old DE and a few core builds could influence a large fight. 

At least Anet provides a lot of level ups and instant 80s if you need to bring your thief back to life. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by kash.9213

[Sindrener.1592]

3 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

That's just wrong. I hope your poor thief didn't die believing that. Specter with SA especially is strong right now in squad and zerg fights but even old DE and a few core builds could influence a large fight. 

At least Anet provides a lot of level ups and instant 80s if you need to bring your thief back to life. 

My pvp power specter build in wvw is more than fine as well. Literally thief on steroids