What's one thing going in the right direction, and one thing that isn't?

[Zaret.1450]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:28 AM, Sunchaser.9854 said:

Gw2 is a pretty good game on the mmorpg game market but it has a weird habit of sticking to ideas that were revolutionary.. 10 years ago, and then sticking to it's bad guns just as well as choking it's good ideas out imo. 

 

After like a week of doing dungeons for runes it seems like all that worry about people not having alacity or quickness unless you're going after challenge modes seems frivolous.. I've already seen a couple dungeons where by the time i joined they had already just cleared half the dungeon on 2-3k dps even on 0 mastery characters. One time i joined a 4 man and when i tped in.. the dungeon was literally already done by the time the 5th player found the entrance. Meanwhile i did 4 more runs and it's just nearly always a nameless blob where we get story intersections nobody wants to be a stickler so we skip it so we can keep up with the group. And honestly at this point. People are still concerned if you'll have alacity + boon face poking range and quickness when while relevant to challenge modes.

 

It feels like you take a hour looking for a dungeon that is zerg rolled over in like 5-10 minutes as long as you have a decent elite spec? 

 

Who cares if the person autoattacking to 2k dps doesn't have +25% alacity for.. more auto attacks.... People are way overthinking something that seems to just be zerged. T4 fractals definitely needs optimization.. But.. Dungeons could really benefit from ideas other mmorpgs introduced like.. twenty years ago. Like.. teleport to dungeon for the no waypoint players, or at the very least, a right click party and "show closest unlocked waypoint" or summoning stone like WoW are just basic things to grease the gears so the dungeon doesn't get beaten before the 5th mountless player ever finds their way there.. 

dungeons have been oficially abandoned since a looong looong time ago, i mean yeah, they should remake tham, not rework but remake from 0, but its almost impposible for that to happen.

In my opinion one thing that goes bad is mostly the comunication between anet and the comunity, be it the patch notes, balance policy, all the way up to their streams, they should make a better job there, making streams with the devs playing and explaining why things are that way, answering comunity questions on stream, showing the process of balancing a class, streaming that im sure theyd get much more twitch views, the comunity would have more fainth in them, and also things like balance would be much more easy to understand and, if needed, change.

As for things theyre doing good, well wvw restructuring is a good way to go, also balance, while mising the point, at least looks like it tries to make more things abaliable, at least the sup balance, it wasnt good per se but a good starting point.

And lastly, well its good and bad at the same time, they recogniced making a mistake with warrior, wich is good, but at the same time, when those leaks appeared they said nothing, i understand that death threats were just too much and something unjustified, of course, but anet should take their part in the fall too, even if it were a joke or a, how would they react, and not a true leak, wich i doubt, they shoud say, Were sorry this happened, well take tjis seriously and apologize, but to those who sent death threats, you have no excuse, a death threat is just too much, that would have been a better aproach in my opinion.

[kharmin.7683]

57 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

dungeons have been oficially abandoned since a looong looong time ago, i mean yeah, they should remake tham, not rework but remake from 0, but its almost impposible for that to happen.

 

They did remake them.  They're called Strikes now.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

6 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

They did remake them.  They're called Strikes now.

oh wild, i didn't realize they had removed the old dungeons.

[kharmin.7683]

27 minutes ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

oh wild, i didn't realize they had removed the old dungeons.

no, the old dungeons remain.  Anet no longer maintains them.  Fractals replaced dungeons.  Strikes are the new thing that gets more attention than fractals as they are purported to be a stepping stone to raids (which seem to be Anet's real focus).

[Zaret.1450]

58 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

They did remake them.  They're called Strikes now.

mmmm you know dungeons are ascalon catacombs, fire citadel arah and so on right? they have been abandoned.

Strikes are raids, like wing 1 with VG and so on, strikes have nothing to do with dungeons.

[Zaret.1450]

24 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

no, the old dungeons remain.  Anet no longer maintains them.  Fractals replaced dungeons.  Strikes are the new thing that gets more attention than fractals as they are purported to be a stepping stone to raids (which seem to be Anet's real focus).

ctals could be considered dungeons, but at the same time they are different, for example 99, 98, etc are closer to raids, while strikes are raids with just one boss.

And yeah they are made to replace dungeons as end game content, but dungeons per se are abandoned, and i think noone would complain if arah, ascalon, etc were remade to be more in line with the rest of the game

[Zeivu.3615]

14 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Right Direction: The endgame PvE experience (Story, maps, metas, instances, and rewards on the whole)

Wrong Direction: Profession balance. This started going downhill fast with the Feb2020 update and has only gotten worse and has affected some professions much more than others, specifically warrior balance in light of the balance team apparently playing favorites leading up to June 28th. Obviously, warrior isn't alone in this, but it's become more obvious since June 28th.

 

 

This. I ended up cannibalizing my last ele's gear and deleted her for another revenant.

[Voyant.1327]

I mean it pretty much just feels like everything but the balance team is going in the right direction.
Look at this August 2nd patch. A bunch of great things one after another, improving New Player experience, awesome...
Genuinely get the vibe they're listening to the base & making strides forward.

Then you get to the balance notes and it's just back to the "how do you guys keep doing this?" They had two semi decent mini patches to balance where it was like ok we're getting away from the June 28th horror a bit.... and then this one comes out and it's just feels like they're completely ignoring the base's simple request.
"HAVE SOMEONE PLAY THE CLASSES ON THE DESIGN TEAM WHO IS DESIGNING THE CLASS ITSELF!"

Warrior gets it crit chance put in a weird spot, eventually it gets moved to place it makes sense.
Here we are again "Crit Damage" for Alacrity on Chronomancer on a spec that's struggling with Crit CHANCE. And buffs to two overly used weapons... is fixing Chronomancer?

Literally repeating the exact same kind of mistake that was just made while still not fixing the mistakes that have been made.

Sometimes it feels like the balance team is actively trying to troll and enflame the player base.

[Doggie.3184]

I agree with the direction of replacing all classes with Engineer. I don't agree with the direction of them adding this weird water dragon armor instead of adding Faren's swimsuit with fancy dragon print.

[Funky.4861]

17 hours ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Didn't like the charr civil war that was Drizzlewood Coast?   Because otherwise what are you even talking about? 

 

Going in the right direction:  story in general, bringing back season 1

Going in the wrong direction:  Too many bugs, bots, and balance issues. 

I've disliked the portrayals of the Charr and Norn since i started playing back in 2012; anet went in too hard with the stereotyping right at the start.

What i'm referring to re: ideology is the usage of feminism/misandry and other far-left thinking in creating the social fabrics of the game world and its storytelling. It's more subtle in the core game (but still noticeable if you have your analytical skills engaged) and it's constantly reinforced through npc interactions, becoming more prominent with each expansion. Let's pick a couple of obvious examples: Queen Jennah and Logan, and Crecia and Rytlock. If you gender-swapped them whilst retaining their dialogue and its tonality, would those relationships be as acceptable as what we have?

My favourite mentor in the personal story arc was Sieran and i think my favourite character in the game was Faolain, perhaps because of how males are ubiquitously written as always lacking, flawed or undesirable. The only likeable males which come to mind (off the top of my head) are Trahearne (borderline, he is a gloryhog) Knut Whitebear (largely irrelevant) and Gorrik/Blish (minor but poignant moments).

The racial power-structures are mainly female-dominated benevolent dictatorships, apart from the asura (socialist) and charr (interesting to note that they gave the only male malevolent lead to the beast race and heavily emphasised its' brutality). The norn are the only race with a male benevolent leader and they are mainly sitting on their hands. If we gender-swapped those characters, would they be as acceptable as what we have?

When you see the bias, you realise how bad it is.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Going well: Love the Mount system, the freedom to do what you want, it is still there after all these years even in new content.

Going bad (VERY bad): Balance patches!! 

There is absolutely ZERO excuse to utterly destroy entire proffesions and then, when finally admitting it, NOT do a Roll-Back and start again. The simple idea that from one day to another, ANY of my characters can be rendered utterly useless because of the balance team messing up and UNWILLING to roll back to correct their mistake is what makes me hold back on investing further in those characters. (thanks for destroying my deadeye and warrior)

I have never before expreienced a proffesional company that makes a mistake with an update is so unwilling to roll back to a previous version after admitting to the problem, but rather let us wait and HOPE they MIGHT fix it.

Extremely bad programming practise as far as I am concerned.

[Dante.1508]

Specter, Harbringer, Mechanist, and Firebrand are going in the right direction.

 

Every other class is not..

[yann.1946]

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

I've disliked the portrayals of the Charr and Norn since i started playing back in 2012; anet went in too hard with the stereotyping right at the start.

A common critique indeed, and one i do agree with.

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

What i'm referring to re: ideology is the usage of feminism/misandry

These are quite different ideas though (although ive seen people on all sides conflate the two, so that is an understandable mistake)

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

and other far-left thinking in creating the social fabrics of the game world and its storytelling.

 

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

It's more subtle in the core game (but still noticeable if you have your analytical skills engaged) and it's constantly reinforced through npc interactions, becoming more prominent with each expansion. Let's pick a couple of obvious examples: Queen Jennah and Logan, and Crecia and Rytlock. If you gender-swapped them whilst retaining their dialogue and its tonality, would those relationships be as acceptable as what we have?

For Crecia and Rytlock, i do not think there is any serious problem in their relationship.

 

For Jennah and Logan, Is this relationship considered a healthy one in the game?

Maybe i am to clouded from having ideas what happens in the books, but i never thought their relationship was considered healthy, even in the current genders.

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

My favourite mentor in the personal story arc was Sieran and i think my favourite character in the game was Faolain, perhaps because of how males are ubiquitously written as always lacking, flawed or undesirable.

This is where you lost me though. Faolain is written as an extremely flawed, she is a villain after all. (In the same way Joke is written as extremely flawed).

And Tybalt is also considered an extremely likable mentor (and i dont think the community has a big preference to either one)

So i do not think your preference shows some trend here.

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

The only likeable males which come to mind (off the top of my head) are Trahearne (borderline, he is a gloryhog) Knut Whitebear (largely irrelevant) and Gorrik/Blish (minor but poignant moments).

As i said above, tybalt comes to mind.

And then we have a decent amount of males who are liked by the community:

Rytlock, Joko, Canach, Rama etc.

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

The racial power-structures are mainly female-dominated benevolent dictatorships, apart from the asura (socialist) and charr (interesting to note that they gave the only male malevolent lead to the beast race and heavily emphasised its' brutality). The norn are the only race with a male benevolent leader and they are mainly sitting on their hands. If we gender-swapped those characters, would they be as acceptable as what we have?

Why wouldnt they be, and more importantly most of the leaders are critiqued in the story.

(the current empress is one who hasnt been critiqued yet, but we only met her a short time.)

As an example. Joon, who is in the EoD the most powerfull character we spend a decent amount of time with, was given so many negative characterization in the enviroments of EoD that the people ive talked to about the story considered it weird that she didnt backstab us in the end.

19 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

When you see the bias, you realise how bad it is.

I feel like the problem is the opposite here. While GW2 is indeed more left-wing in there messaging ( having prominent gay characters for example), it seems that your biased are clouding yourself to the characters who dont go with your idea about how the game is written.

[Crono.4197]

Wrong: The focus on elitist content. It's been there since HoT, but now it seems they're trying to make this game just another general "git gud" MMO like all the others.

Right: DX11 and the new improvements to make the vanilla experience better for new players.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Crono.4197

[Funky.4861]

@yann.1946

I see where you're coming from though i'd suggest that if Crecia was imperator and Rytlock treated her the way Crecia currently treats him, it would not be tolerated. Likewise with Jennah and Logan; i haven't come across any negative messaging about their relationship.

 

I agree with you 100% that Tybalt is a loved character, but not by me. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief enough when i did that story arc.

 

As for you other likeable males; Rytlock seemingly can't do anything without Crecias' approval, Joko is a pantomime villain, Canach started out under Anise' thumb as a servant and when he is freed appears to have no direction, and Rama is portrayed as a tryhard surrounded by women with more authority than he will ever have. Likewise with Joon; i didn't pick up on any negative messaging around her actions/behaviour until the big reveal and even then, that was apparently acceptable when she rationalised it. To me, Ankka is a harsher villain than Joon.

 

As for biases; everyone has them, but if you can objectively point out issues in the game which correlate to real-world radical ideologies i don't consider that a bias.

 

To finish- yes, Faolain was a villain from the get-go. But her poisoned reasoning was the result of constant hypocritical rejection from her (and her races') mother. The thorn is as valuable as the blossom...

[patton the great.7126]

We regret to inform you that although we believed WvW to have been on course back in her maiden voyage in 20 ought 11, WvW was lost at sea....all hands lost. Very sad. RIP, Press F however many times you wish. 

[lezbefriends.7516]

Right: Focus on end-game content

Wrong: Monetization of cosmetics

[yann.1946]

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

@yann.1946

I see where you're coming from though i'd suggest that if Crecia was imperator and Rytlock treated her the way Crecia currently treats him, it would not be tolerated.

Can you give an example?

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Likewise with Jennah and Logan; i haven't come across any negative messaging about their relationship.

The death of Snaff was caused by the relationship (which gets brought up in the dungeonstory and the PoF story) 

And in the latest LS1 release Anise calls out that his obsession with defending the queen is problematic.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

I agree with you 100% that Tybalt is a loved character, but not by me. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief enough when i did that story arc.

Thats fair. But when discussing whether male characters get written well, personal preference does not matter that much in my opinion.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

As for you other likeable males; Rytlock seemingly can't do anything without Crecias' approval,

Rytlock, who was a lone wolf from the beginning of the game and learned to cooperate more?

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Joko is a pantomime villain,

Does that make him badly written? I would argue that Faolain is also a pantomime villain to a big degree.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Canach started out under Anise' thumb as a servant and when he is freed appears to have no direction,

His direction is that he wants to be rich, that is not directionless to me.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

and Rama is portrayed as a tryhard surrounded by women with more authority than he will ever have.

He also gets portrayed as extremely respected.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Likewise with Joon; i didn't pick up on any negative messaging around her actions/behaviour until the big reveal and even then, that was apparently acceptable when she rationalised it. To me, Ankka is a harsher villain than Joon.

Maybe you do not consider enviromental damage and unsupervised experimentation as not a big deal. But in echoval these teams get brought up a lot.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

As for biases; everyone has them, but if you can objectively point out issues in the game which correlate to real-world radical ideologies i don't consider that a bias.

Sure, if these problems where objective. Me calling out bias is to point out that your problem seems to me more you missing the well written male characters for some reason, and then call the company out for only writing decent female characters.

39 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

To finish- yes, Faolain was a villain from the get-go. But her poisoned reasoning was the result of constant hypocritical rejection from her (and her races') mother. The thorn is as valuable as the blossom...

Most (not all ofcourse) of the villains in GW2 have reasons for their villainy. But i do not see how this matters to the discussion.

Her reason never gets used as a way to make her more gray after all, she is almost as comicly evil  as Joko is.

[Funky.4861]

Logan doesn't have an obsession with Jennah; he's under a manipulative spell cast by her.

The first example of Crecia/Rytlock that comes to mind is the brief dialogue before the steps of the Shiverpeaks pass Strike mission where she scolds him, snatches the device and puts him down. I get that they have an amiably bickering relationship, but that can easily be interpreted both as normal and as abusive, depending on your sensitivities.

There is a difference between learning to co-operate and being shamed into obedience by an ex-partner who is lower-ranking than you. At the end they are equals (which i don't mind at all) it's how they got there which annoys me.

I wouldn't call Faolain a pantomime villain (she does crave validation from those around her, as a direct result of her 'hypocritical' mother's continual disapproval and rejection which leads to her dramatic moments). Joko has no such sympathetic touches; he's just an egomaniac.

No matter how much 'respect' Rama has he will never rise among the ranks in his career and he knows this; he will never achieve his dreams and instead settles for less than he knows he can accomplish. The writers didn't have to do him dirty like that.

The thing about Joon is that the inquest did the same things pretty much and it was quite obvious that they were evil; i didn't get that vibe about Joons' behaviour.

 

To close, i guess we have different definitions of what makes a well-written character/story arc (and that's ok).

[yann.1946]

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

Logan doesn't have an obsession with Jennah; he's under a manipulative spell cast by her.

Do you mean the spells that connects them? Is it actually mindcontrolling him? And i do not think it gets represented as a good thing (It causes the death of Snaff after all)

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

The first example of Crecia/Rytlock that comes to mind is the brief dialogue before the steps of the Shiverpeaks pass Strike mission where she scolds him, snatches the device and puts him down.

 

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

I get that they have an amiably bickering relationship, but that can easily be interpreted both as normal and as abusive, depending on your sensitivities.

Isnt that more a consequence of Charr hierarchies? She became his boss right before the strike after all.

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

There is a difference between learning to co-operate and being shamed into obedience by an ex-partner who is lower-ranking than you.

Well in your example she is higher rank. She is the acting imperator at that moment.

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

At the end they are equals (which i don't mind at all) it's how they got there which annoys me.

 

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

I wouldn't call Faolain a pantomime villain (she does crave validation from those around her, as a direct result of her 'hypocritical' mother's continual disapproval and rejection which leads to her dramatic moments). Joko has no such sympathetic touches; he's just an egomaniac.

The only difference is that we have not seen Jokos origin. I personally like both characters, they are interesting in there own right.

 

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

No matter how much 'respect' Rama has he will never rise among the ranks in his career and he knows this; he will never achieve his dreams and instead settles for less than he knows he can accomplish.

As far as i know Rama didnt have goals to be in the politics that Lis position would entail and would rather be more on the ground. Can you show me an example where his ambitions were mentioned?

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

The writers didn't have to do him dirty like that.

The thing about Joon is that the inquest did the same things pretty much and it was quite obvious that they were evil; i didn't get that vibe about Joons' behaviour.

This seems more a problem with the cantha LS not yet being here. We have not yet dealt with here more negative escapedes in the story directly. But in the side stories of the expac it is pretty clear she is not good, more a morally gray person.

10 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

To close, i guess we have different definitions of what makes a well-written character/story arc (and that's ok).

But that is not what the problem is though. You made a pretty strong claim that no male character gets written well, even though there is a plethora of male characters the community likes. You mentioned how misandry is in the story, but ignore all the male characters which are written to be likeable. 

 

If your claim was just that you didnt like the male characters, then fair enough. But you made a way stronger statement, that they purposly write male characters worse.

[Treacy.4067]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:57 PM, Funky.4861 said:

I've disliked the portrayals of the Charr and Norn since i started playing back in 2012; anet went in too hard with the stereotyping right at the start.

What i'm referring to re: ideology is the usage of feminism/misandry and other far-left thinking in creating the social fabrics of the game world and its storytelling. It's more subtle in the core game (but still noticeable if you have your analytical skills engaged) and it's constantly reinforced through npc interactions, becoming more prominent with each expansion. Let's pick a couple of obvious examples: Queen Jennah and Logan, and Crecia and Rytlock. If you gender-swapped them whilst retaining their dialogue and its tonality, would those relationships be as acceptable as what we have?

My favourite mentor in the personal story arc was Sieran and i think my favourite character in the game was Faolain, perhaps because of how males are ubiquitously written as always lacking, flawed or undesirable. The only likeable males which come to mind (off the top of my head) are Trahearne (borderline, he is a gloryhog) Knut Whitebear (largely irrelevant) and Gorrik/Blish (minor but poignant moments).

The racial power-structures are mainly female-dominated benevolent dictatorships, apart from the asura (socialist) and charr (interesting to note that they gave the only male malevolent lead to the beast race and heavily emphasised its' brutality). The norn are the only race with a male benevolent leader and they are mainly sitting on their hands. If we gender-swapped those characters, would they be as acceptable as what we have?

When you see the bias, you realise how bad it is.

You've got to be kidding me lol.

[Funky.4861]

9 hours ago, Treacy.4067 said:

You've got to be kidding me lol.

Nope, not at all.

[Voyant.1327]

18 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

Nope, not at all.

Its actually a common complaint I hear these days. People don't like forced ideologies is all it is. But most people don't articulate or voice their concerns about it out of fear of backlash\being singled out for speaking up.

For the most part though the game seems pretty tame. Its clear that its a liberal focused ideology behind the writing, but as long as they're not malicious towards different views I personally don't care. Every time period has one demographic they blame for everything, so you'll see a lot of subtle jabs in various content until people realize hate is bad in all forms again. And you're not gonna get thru to people who don't want to see their scapegoat as a human being right now. But I applaud you for articulating it in a way that might being awareness to it for some. Most will dismiss it cause they're not ready to hear it but least the details are there. 

In general most the characters/story is one of the weaker points of the game so I don't think its such a big deal though. If the world was immersive or I cared what happens to them it might be different. I tend to like random gold heart npcs more then main characters. (Looking at you Taimi) 

Still kudos for explaining a different point of view without malice in a way people might understand. 🍻

[Wolfshade.9251]

Good: somewhat frequent balance patches.

Bad: the quality of those ''balance'' patches.

[Svarty.8019]

Right: Raids and kitten. Trying to retain the WoW refugees with this World's First BS.

Wrong: WvW desperately needs a massive amount of polish but instead Anet assigns people to this "World Restructuring" system that won't fix WvW's woes.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Svarty.8019
NOTHING WILL BE DONE