(Pvp) spell breaker should be the duelist god not bladespam

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

No, Meditations aren't used. They haven't been used since very early Spellbreaker builds that used Featherfoot Grace, which got overshadowed by Stance builds (this was pre-300s ICD and and the gruesome murder of Defense). Meditations need some serious reworks.

Really just...so much of everything on Warrior needs reworks. The only worthwhile utility skills are Armaments (primarily in PvE) and then Shouts. Thats it. Banners are in a better place now, still need work but better than they were. At least Warrior can be a source of Quickness in Raids now. Firebrand still exists...but y'know, baby steps I guess.

Yeah, the question was semi-rhetorical (the 'semi' being that if anyone did pop up and present a strong use case for one, that would be interesting information). The lack of such a response does provide a use case for reworking them, possibly into something more support-oriented, possibly to something more damage-oriented.

 

4 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Spellbreaker - Literally just core warrior with 1 new ability tacked on,  never been relevant in pve since its release.

 

Truly the pinacle of elite spec design 

Similar to a discussion in a previous thread, performance is often more a function of numbers than base design. SB doesn't do enough damage to compete with power berserker in raids, nor does it offer support beyond core warrior stuff.

It's still fun in solo PvE stuff though.

It's less Full Counter itself and more the way the adrenaline system is modified. Most warrior setups, including Bladesworn now, are set up to charge and charge and charge and then they can do something cool, like go berserk or go into a full-flow DT or unleash a three-bar burst. Spellbreaker only being able to use one bar at once, though, means that you get more use out of it in open world and can more easily chain different adrenaline-fueled skills together. YMMV, naturally, but it is a more significant variation from other warriors than you seem to think.

[Yerlock.4678]

14 hours ago, stry.1493 said:

Now i know where youve been getting your copium supply, what am I supposed to do just watch you descend into addiction and OD at 35? You need to stop going on forums and posting about warrior and learn a real class like guardian or necro. This is an intervention.

I had a dream that the meta was 5 ele's but then woke up and laughed

[oscuro.9720]

12 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Spellbreaker - Literally just core warrior with 1 new ability tacked on,  never been relevant in pve since its release.

 

Truly the pinacle of elite spec design 

What an exceedingly dumb take. This thread is in reference to pvp, as the title says. No, spell is not good in organized PvE, it’s a competitive first spec. That’s okay. However, it should be a decently high performing spec in pvp if it is competitive first, which unfortunately it’s not. 
 

As for reducing spell to “core with 1 new ability”, complexity of gameplay is not predicated on the number of buttons you can press, but the quality of use cases of said buttons. Unfortunately, Aner has designed most Especs to be button-heavy-spam-intensive to try to simulate complexity when it’s gameplay isn’t complex, just complicated. You are free to disagree, which I’m sure you will, but that’s okay 🙂 

Edited August 8, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

20 hours ago, stry.1493 said:

you warrior mains complain all day long even though you literally have condi berzerker the most busted build in the game

 

I'm framing this one.

[Vancho.8750]

14 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Spellbreaker - Literally just core warrior with 1 new ability tacked on,  never been relevant in pve since its release.

 

Truly the pinacle of elite spec design 

At the time of release it beat everything in PVP on its designated area just by having that one ability on demand that is borrowed subpar skill from guardian. Sands were burning, Skies were falling, Lazars were flying but the biggest fear was that one ability, now it is not even the best counter attack skill in the game after all the nerfs, but back then it was amazing how such a simple skill can wreck the overkill design specs.   

[Kayberz.5346]

18 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

At the time of release it beat everything in PVP on its designated area just by having that one ability on demand that is borrowed subpar skill from guardian. Sands were burning, Skies were falling, Lazars were flying but the biggest fear was that one ability, now it is not even the best counter attack skill in the game after all the nerfs, but back then it was amazing how such a simple skill can wreck the overkill design specs.   

I remember well

 

It was basically an uber powercrept greataxe warrior 

Back when CC still did damage

Fullcounter-into arcing slice will kill almost anything in zerker amulet

As much fun as it was to play back then its design was rather shallow, it was quite literally just core warrior propped up with one super overtuned pvp tool

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Much like being just a core power build with one super overtuned PvE tool right? Well, that particular case also has an overtuned PvP tool as well doesn't it.

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

I remember well

 

It was basically an uber powercrept greataxe warrior 

Back when CC still did damage

Fullcounter-into arcing slice will kill almost anything in zerker amulet

As much fun as it was to play back then its design was rather shallow, it was quite literally just core warrior propped up with one super overtuned pvp tool

 

 

Nah, it was balanced before the CC nerf. It was only heavily overpowered for about 6 months, when it hit 10k (go play spell in a guild hall pvp arena, it’s HILARIOUS). Then it did about 3-5k on crit with Revenge counter, 2.5-3.5k crits without. That’s when the Str Dagger build started coming out as the higher skill cap build than Defense spell. At that point, spell was actually in a pretty good place, with a lower floor-lower ceiling Defense build (though that build was still overturned), and a really high ceiling, moderate floor build in str dagger spell (arguably a higher floor at the time because of the amount of damage everything else had). 
 

After CC nerf warrior as a whole was hit much harder than every other class. I actually agree CC needed it’s damage removed, but warrior then had all its other weapon skills parsed down by the universal 30-35% reduction, while also being disproportionately impacted by the CC nerf. This made war lose a lot more damage than every other spec (except maybe Mirage, with that line dodge nerf). War’s low-floor build (defense spell) was killed with 300s CD traits (an understandable change, don’t get me wrong). Wars high skill cap build (Str dagger) had its sustain nerfed by >60% with the combination of the universal 30-35% healing reduction and the might generation from MBT being reduced to 1 stack. This resulted in warriors build having its sustain nerfed more than basically every other spec (again, except maybe mirage, with that lone dodge nerf). 
 

The reason it worked so well wasn’t because it was an “overturned lone mechanic propping up spell”, because that’s just wrong. It was a line mechanic, sure, but again, how complicated something is doesn’t impact it’s complexity. Full counter was a high-reaction, high-skill mechanic that scaled appropriately with skill use, operated on a short CD to give a high degree of flexibility, and had 3-4 add on functions impacted by traits that could expand the ability to be a compound mechanic. This creates complexity of play that was similar to, say weaver. Again, you don’t need a functionally complicated mechanic to make its use cases complex, and therefore scaling well with player skill. 
 

You also had dagger, which was a very well designed weapon that interacted well with traits, had a combination of mobility, utility, and reaction-based skills that, again, gave it a higher skill cap and radically different play style than core warrior. 

[tunococman.7324]

To be honest, ANET had to make BsW replace spellbreaker because of its all about the money and they want you to buy the expansion

 

It's just business sadly.

They could literally tune the numbers right, but they don't want to simply lower power coefficients on all classes at the same time.

 

But they don't do that because money. Pay2win spec zzzz

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

50 minutes ago, tunococman.7324 said:

To be honest, ANET had to make BsW replace spellbreaker because of its all about the money and they want you to buy the expansion

 

It's just business sadly.

They could literally tune the numbers right, but they don't want to simply lower power coefficients on all classes at the same time.

 

But they don't do that because money. Pay2win spec zzzz

They could have made a Support spec like many of us were wanting and not stepped on SpB's toes in PvP and Berserker's DPS role in PvE and sold lots of copies anyway.

[otto.5684]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:28 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

Spell is, IMO, one of, if not the best designed spec in the game and one of the most fun to play. So why would I want to play spellbrealer? Because it’s more fun than most of the other specializations.

But that does not negate that it is useless in pve. 

[draxynnic.3719]

19 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

But that does not negate that it is useless in pve. 

In instanced content, perhaps. I'm pretty sure one of the 'solo things you shouldn't normally be able to solo' builds was spellbreaker. Mind you, bladesworn with GM1 can also contend in this area.

[tunococman.7324]

It's really sad because BsW powercreep does a couple of things:

 

1.) Hammer/Mace- because why pick mace/hammer when unyielding dragon is the way to CC while doing damage AND ignore mace and hammer weaknesses because it goes through block/blind

2.) Daring dragon = amazing mobility/stability spam/easier to chase with z-axis teleport/YOU ALSO KITE BETTER, so why even pick bulls charge and balanced stance anymore, why even pick greatsword when you could just go offhand axe and burn their dodges.

3.) Why play shouts on spb and core, it doesn't even work on berserker because you want stances/invulns. It's just too strong, the BsW trait: unshake-able mountaint trait barrier on last ammo.
 

Honorable mention: Rampage feels good on STR TACT BSW, it actually feels fluid and impactful

All sPvP-wise.

It's so stupid and sad to be honest. ANET's double standard is just something else it disgusts me.

Le Sigh.

Edited August 9, 2022 by tunococman.7324

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

I disagree, I think that Spellbreaker should become a support class that focuses on controlling boons and conditions. Full Counter feels like it was just slapped on them because A-net didn't know how to make a proper support spec for Warriors.
Bladesworn is kinda weird and doesn't feel like it has any purpose beside being a gimmick for the sake of it. Like F1 working as a "swap" weapon is actually what I had in mind for Berserkers aka enter Berserk Mode and for x seconds your 1-5 skills will get replaced by new ones that are based on the weapons you're currently using, not some meme busted upgraded core F1.
It really feels like most classes and their e-spec counterparts are burnouts, good idea in the beginning, but lack of actual vision for it's "finish result" gave us this half kitten usable dissappointemnts.

[tunococman.7324]

20 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Bladesworn is kinda weird and doesn't feel like it has any purpose beside being a gimmick for the sake of it. Like F1 working as a "swap" weapon is actually

It's weird but there is a way to sum it up: BsW basically dps Warrior that can chase better/kite better/spam better/catch better. Basically a Warrior spec that can finally cheese like other classes.

 

Hence not real Warrior because landing big casting times in suicide in the current state of the game. Warrior back in 2015 pre-HoT was like land telegraphed attacks ===== profit. BsW has a lot of leeways

 

So yeah it's just "forgiving dps Warrior" that can use shouts so why play anything else

 

 

 

It's really an anime protagonist designed by a naruto runner.

[oscuro.9720]

3 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

But that does not negate that it is useless in pve. 

That’s neither here nor there really. This thread specifically says PvP in the title, and it’s no secret that Spell is and has been a competitive-first spec. That’s OK, competitive first specs are perfectly acceptable imo. 

Not everything needs to be balanced for instances pve. Granted a competitive first spec should generally be in the top end of the meta, not low mid tier, otherwise the spec is useless as a whole.

[Arolandis.8360]

15 hours ago, tunococman.7324 said:

To be honest, ANET had to make BsW replace spellbreaker because of its all about the money and they want you to buy the expansion

 

It's just business sadly.

They could literally tune the numbers right, but they don't want to simply lower power coefficients on all classes at the same time.

 

But they don't do that because money. Pay2win spec zzzz

Except some of us are over bladesworn and try the other specs and go "wtf" and quit. They need to get on the ball with Warrior already. It's been too kitten long. If they want more money they shouldn't just assume all anybody is going to want to play is the new elite specs and nothing else.

Anytime I try to make other builds on Warrior I just end up pissed off anymore.

[draxynnic.3719]

21 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Full Counter feels like it was just slapped on them because A-net didn't know how to make a proper support spec for Warriors.

I suspect someone's a Seven Deadly Sins fan in the design team. Full Counter was an ability of a character in that show, who would almost certainly be translated to Warrior in a GW2 context (and this in a setting where it was fairly typical for knights to have magical powers) to bounce any magical attack back to the source. Spellbreaker makes it work against all attacks (because GW2 doesn't distinguish between magical and nonmagical attacks) and has the energy dissipate out in all directions rather than being a reflect, but that's probably where the inspiration for an ability called Full Counter on a mage-fighting warrior probably came from.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:24 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

My guess, cause it is kinda almost useless in PVE and you can't retire it there like for example Berserker. Enjoying some playstyle over the other is good enough reason to want that.
With all the "IT'S A PVP SPEC" nonsense that was going around for a long time one would expect that it should probably do better than the big kitten dps PVE spec in PVP.

Its actually stronger (in theory and paper) since Anet has been adding more copy paste boons to the other classes like rev and ranger spirits and banners, but necro is still far stronger than spellbreaker now with more boons stacked

for pve all it matters is damage an perma boons, players need to play how Anet wants players to overperform  or gtfo.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I suspect someone's a Seven Deadly Sins fan in the design team. Full Counter was an ability of a character in that show, who would almost certainly be translated to Warrior in a GW2 context (and this in a setting where it was fairly typical for knights to have magical powers) to bounce any magical attack back to the source. Spellbreaker makes it work against all attacks (because GW2 doesn't distinguish between magical and nonmagical attacks) and has the energy dissipate out in all directions rather than being a reflect, but that's probably where the inspiration for an ability called Full Counter on a mage-fighting warrior probably came from.

I would suspect that is a very accurate guess. The original FC hit like a truck in competitive modes and got nerfed steadily ever since.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I suspect someone's a Seven Deadly Sins fan in the design team. Full Counter was an ability of a character in that show, who would almost certainly be translated to Warrior in a GW2 context (and this in a setting where it was fairly typical for knights to have magical powers) to bounce any magical attack back to the source. Spellbreaker makes it work against all attacks (because GW2 doesn't distinguish between magical and nonmagical attacks) and has the energy dissipate out in all directions rather than being a reflect, but that's probably where the inspiration for an ability called Full Counter on a mage-fighting warrior probably came from.

Its a merge of Meliodas' and Estarossa's versions. 

Tbh at this point, give me an Elite war spec that uses ominous Nebula like Zeldris as an F2 and it slashes anything entering it's area of affect numerous times (like 40 slices) whilst reflecting projectiles. 

[tunococman.7324]

seven deadly is such a bad anime tho sigh XD

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 minutes ago, tunococman.7324 said:

seven deadly is such a bad anime tho sigh XD

First 2 seasons were aight. Then animation crumbled and manga got zzzzz

[tunococman.7324]

21 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

First 2 seasons were aight. Then animation crumbled and manga got zzzzz

Escanor elite spec when XD

[anbujackson.9564]

30 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

First 2 seasons were aight. Then animation crumbled and manga got zzzzz

Too bad that there arent so many escanor scenes.

EDIT: Yo imagine berserk mode increasing in power to a maximum for the last 3 seconds (assuming a fixed duration) to unleash a burst that would make dragon slash blush. Nice

Like fixed duration of 20 seconds and every second your offensive stats increase by 50/75

Edited August 10, 2022 by anbujackson.9564