All the best players play mechanist...

[MrForz.1953]

 

11 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Or maybe it's just "jealousy" that this particular spec is popular while [favourite spec] isn't?

I only have 4 characters, engineer is 80% of my playtime since the release. The spec replaced half my serious builds list and the non-mechanist ones I keep due to a mix of fondness and some misplaced belief that they're still relevant.

I clear raid wings and strikes with a team that is nowadays made of at least 5 or 6 mechanists, the few pugs we occasionally pull in are also rifle mechanists. We crack jokes about how we need more mechanists to pulverize the content further. Many of them "mains" I can't joyfully talk engineering with because they don't know much beyond the rifle mechanist frontier, and they don't have to.

I play Quick-Scrapper and Holosmith every once in a while to remain mentally stimulated in that content and challenging that one trendy build is complicated, it's like everything I knew beforehand has no relevance except maybe for the condi builds, which will take a nerf.

[Gorem.8104]

12 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

A few weeks ago we had people saying: "Harbinger just spam AA and have incredible survivability! Please nerf!" (I'm pretty sure many people still think that)

In a few weeks (if mechanist is brought down from it's current spot) you'll have the same people saying: "[insert e-spec] just spam [whatever] and break the game! Please nerf!"

This is just how things goes on this forum after all. Prior to Harbinger I'm pretty sure Scourge, Renegade, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Mirage, Chronomancer... etc. received the same negative "feedback" at one point or another. And I'm pretty sure we will see similar "feedback" in the futur for Specter, Bladesworn... etc.

The question is: "Is it really as bad as you think it is to have a dominant mechanist in the meta?"

If it is as easy as people say, then it mean PvE end game can see an increase of activity. More group/raid become succesful, which mean less player are frustrated while some even began to enjoy this part of the game. More people enjoying what they do lead to less toxicity between players... etc. All in all, you could say that it's supposed to be a virtuous circle.

On another hand, what do we see in this forum? People saying that 80-90% of the playerbase is unhappy because "mechanist is to easy". Do people want to have a semi deserted end game that only a few play until they are sick of it to the point that they look for another game? Or maybe it's just "jealousy" that this particular spec is popular while [favourite spec] isn't?

Can we look at the game a bit more positively instead of quickly stygmatising anything that become a bit succesfull as soon as it appear?

 

Have ya even taken a look at GW2 Wingman before making this comment? 

You can't use the excuse "oh its just forum uproar therefore ignorable" and then use things that didn't happen anywhere near as big as this has. There is now a class in game that requires no effort to play that is more survivable then every other class and can do huge dps with the least effort ever possible. I played Hizen's Mech build before the June change and it was incredible just how hard it was to die while everything around me died faster then any class I had played beforehand. Then June dropped and Hizen's build was buffed while other builds that were weaker, were nerfed. 

Ever since the update I've never seen as wide-spread the complaints about a class before. Usually my discord groups are pretty calm, but since June even there has been talk of Mechanist being everywhere and in everything. Been in them for a year, and this is the first time. 

The facts are this: Mechanist has increased the average dps in open world by more then anything else ever has in 10 years of the games life. Maybe some see that as a good thing? heh. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Dadnir.5038]

10 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Have ya even taken a look at GW2 Wingman before making this comment? 

You can't use the excuse "oh its just forum uproar therefore ignorable" and then use things that didn't happen anywhere near as big as this has. There is now a class in game that requires no effort to play that is more survivable then every other class and can do huge dps with the least effort ever possible. I played Hizen's Mech build before the June change and it was incredible just how hard it was to die while everything around me died faster then any class I had played beforehand. Then June dropped and Hizen's build was buffed while other builds that were weaker, were nerfed. 

Ever since the update I've never seen as wide-spread the complaints about a class before. Usually my discord groups are pretty calm, but since June even there has been talk of Mechanist being everywhere and in everything. Been in them for a year, and this is the first time. 

The facts are this: Mechanist has increased the average dps in open world by more then anything else ever has in 10 years of the games life. Maybe some see that as a good thing? heh. 

Did you read the comment you quoted?

I'll make it very simple for you to understand. The raid/dungeon subforum have 6 kind of thread:

- "Bug" thread

- "Give us easy mode" thread

- "Give us hard mode" thread

- "Nerf [spec]" thread

- "Elitists are bad" thread

- "The gamemode is dying, we need new blood" thread

ANet give an easy to play spec that can bring new people with "lesser" personal skill enter and enjoy the gamemode solving 2 kind of thread category. To which your kind answer with a "nerf [spec]" thread and your argument is "look at wingman it's obvious that there is to many mechanist and thus that it's OP!" 

Ask yourself, who play mechanist? Sure there is the lazy old players that just want the reward at the end of the wing. But there is also the "new blood", the one that needed something easy enough to be able to discover the various wing without being thoroughly disguted by the gamemode in a few hours.

You don't like mechanist? Just form groups/raids that ban the use of the spec and enjoy playing thing that you think deserve to be "meta". You find the gamemode to easy? Play off meta raid composition, challenge yourself by playing things that are underestimated! (who know, maybe like teapot with scourge, you might one day bring light onto a spec that was totally disregarded by other players).

Why exactly is it an issue that a spec see a lot of use because it's easy to play? Are you affraid that you might get "corrupted" by this spec? Are you affraid of the challenge to not play "easy mode"? If there are so many people that despise mechanist then you shouldn't have any issue gathering "non-mechanist" raids.

NB: Honestly, I find the irony of the situation quite amusing. In HoT era, players that wanted to play necromancer in raids were basically said similar words from meta specs players.

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Did you read the comment you quoted?

I'll make it very simple for you to understand. The raid/dungeon subforum have 6 kind of thread:

- "Bug" thread

- "Give us easy mode" thread

- "Give us hard mode" thread

- "Nerf [spec]" thread

- "Elitists are bad" thread

- "The gamemode is dying, we need new blood" thread

ANet give an easy to play spec that can bring new people with "lesser" personal skill enter and enjoy the gamemode solving 2 kind of thread category. To which your kind answer with a "nerf [spec]" thread and your argument is "look at wingman it's obvious that there is to many mechanist and thus that it's OP!" 

Ask yourself, who play mechanist? Sure there is the lazy old players that just want the reward at the end of the wing. But there is also the "new blood", the one that needed something easy enough to be able to discover the various wing without being thoroughly disguted by the gamemode in a few hours.

You don't like mechanist? Just form groups/raids that ban the use of the spec and enjoy playing thing that you think deserve to be "meta". You find the gamemode to easy? Play off meta raid composition, challenge yourself by playing things that are underestimated! (who know, maybe like teapot with scourge, you might one day bring light onto a spec that was totally disregarded by other players).

Why exactly is it an issue that a spec see a lot of use because it's easy to play? Are you affraid that you might get "corrupted" by this spec? Are you affraid of the challenge to not play "easy mode"? If there are so many people that despise mechanist then you shouldn't have any issue gathering "non-mechanist" raids.

NB: Honestly, I find the irony of the situation quite amusing. In HoT era, players that wanted to play necromancer in raids were basically said similar words from meta specs players.

Okay, let's ask ourselves who plays mechanist.  Answer: Everyone.  Look at recent speed kills, HT CM, open world squads, wingman stats.  Mechanists are everywhere.  It is not just a spec for "low-skill" players.  Its performance is simply that good.

Why exactly is that an issue?  In a word: Balance.  If balance doesn't matter to you, then why would it be an issue if they brought mechanist down to a reasonable level?  As you advise others to do, you can always make your own group.

Besides, appropriately tuning mechanist so that it doesn't overperform would do nothing to change how easy and accessible it is for low-skill players.  They would still perform dramatically better on such a class.  What's the problem?

[Gorem.8104]

6 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Okay, let's ask ourselves who plays mechanist.  Answer: Everyone.  Look at recent speed kills, HT CM, open world squads, wingman stats.  Mechanists are everywhere.  It is not just a spec for "low-skill" players.  Its performance is simply that good.

Why exactly is that an issue?  In a word: Balance.  If balance doesn't matter to you, then why would it be an issue if they brought mechanist down to a reasonable level?  As you advise others to do, you can always make your own group.

Besides, appropriately tuning mechanist so that it doesn't overperform would do nothing to change how easy and accessible it is for low-skill players.  They would still perform dramatically better on such a class.  What's the problem?

This, its got nothing to do with "Accessibility" and everything to do with balance and how its just a better class then every other class while afk. There already is low intensity builds for classes, low intensity is not "I can go afk and outdps 90% of players". That number is probably a lot lower now that everyone is just playing Mechanist cause why would you not? 
Why not play a class that can outdps most people in the game without even needing to play the game? Then you just look like a try hard at this point. The real turning point though was when people started being told to play Mechanist over their favourite classes or they would not be invited, which has been reported all around now. 

[Voyant.1327]

I decided to mess around with a cDPS Engineer (Holosmith) coming from a Mesmer Virt.

Its insane the stat benefits Engineers have, I'm in mostly the boosted celestial exotic with maybe four pieces of ascended.... Threw on some runes & sigils. And I'm over 100% on bleed, 100% burn, and 100% crit chance (fury/bleed/range) within 2 hours of playing a class I know absolutely nothing about beyond avoiding Mechanists.

Like I legit felt I stumbled onto three 100%, no other class has that to my knowledge. At least not in mostly basic celestial exotic.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Voyant.1327

[zeyeti.8347]

And they are still people trying to defend the spec saying it's at 26% played in endgame content because it has a lot of roles management... yeah sure the 8 mechanist in my raid where all playing HAM.... I remember when you had to do a full rotation to hope reach 30k , now you just have to press 1! Accessibilty ? more like stupidity

21 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

The real turning point though was when people started being told to play Mechanist over their favourite classes or they would not be invited, which has been reported all around now. 

Yes that sound familiar to me .

[Lysico.4906]

It boils down to other people be jealous of the mech.   Really no other reason

[Myror.7521]

Best Player play mechanist cause best players tend to win. Just  simple as that 😛

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 hours ago, Lysico.4906 said:

It boils down to other people be jealous of the mech.   Really no other reason

What are they jealous of?  I thought mech wasn't strong and everyone else just needs to git gud? 

[Obtena.7952]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:13 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Okay, let's ask ourselves who plays mechanist.  Answer: Everyone.  Look at recent speed kills, HT CM, open world squads, wingman stats.  Mechanists are everywhere.  It is not just a spec for "low-skill" players.  Its performance is simply that good.

Why exactly is that an issue?  In a word: Balance.  If balance doesn't matter to you, then why would it be an issue if they brought mechanist down to a reasonable level?  As you advise others to do, you can always make your own group.

Besides, appropriately tuning mechanist so that it doesn't overperform would do nothing to change how easy and accessible it is for low-skill players.  They would still perform dramatically better on such a class.  What's the problem?

Yes, mechs are played alot, but not everyone plays them; that's certainly an exaggeration. Maybe if MORE classes had specs that were as versatile, we wouldn't see such high adoption of mech.

There is a balance issue with it, but there are two very different issues happening at the same time here. One is LI build and the other the support build ... and nerfing the DPS isn't a fix for either of those because no one in either of those paths is taking mech because of its DPS. 

You are right ... Anet could nerf the DPS 5-10K, but I doubt that's going really affect the usage because DPS not the reason people take LI or support mech in the first place. It's just not solving either of the problems both those path have that anyone is talking about. 

Tomorrow we see the first step to a fix that is actually addressing the support mech. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Tails.9372]

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes, mechs are played alot, but not everyone plays them; that's certainly an exaggeration.

Exactly, what I also noticed is that the amount of people playing mech is significantly higher in organized meta trains than it is in more spontaneously formed groups. It's almost as if many of those players specifically prepare themselves for long grinding sessions by going for the most suitable LI build.

Also, the visual noise of the mech is exacerbating the issue to the nth degree. I doubt many people would notice 10-15 thiefs in a 50 man squad unless all of them are using "The Dreamer" but 10-15 mechs would be more than enough to dominate the visual landscape.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Exactly, what I also noticed is that the amount of people playing mech is significantly higher in organized meta trains than it is in more spontaneously formed groups. It's almost as if many of those players specifically prepare themselves for long grinding sessions by going for the most suitable LI build.

Also, the visual noise of the mech is exacerbating the issue the nth degree. I doubt many people would notice 10-15 thiefs in a 50 man squad unless all of them are using "The Dreamer" but 10-15 mechs would be more than enough to dominate the visual landscape.

Its not a LI build, its an afk and beat the majority of players build by basically legalised in game botting build, gotta be more accurate with the naming. 

Also not sure what Game Obtena is playing, cause indeed Most people right now are playing Mechanist, this is factual due to number gathering websites. 

[zeyeti.8347]

12 hours ago, Lysico.4906 said:

It boils down to other people be jealous of the mech.   Really no other reason

Yeah it's kind of jealousy , but more afraid that the game gets more and more mechs players only , have you done raids or strikes recently ?  well the numbers of mechs increase day by day , i see no rev. , ele , warrior , whatsoever (sometimes one guy , who seem to be lost...) . Thats the main problem for me , i do play the mech pew pew afk , sure not everyone plays it , but the numbers are there ,26% of the players choose mech in endgame content (strikes and raids , fb still  dominant in fractals at same level of mech)

 

2 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Also, the visual noise of the mech is exacerbating the issue the nth degree. I doubt many people would notice 10-15 thiefs in a 50 man squad unless all of them are using "The Dreamer" but 10-15 mechs would be more than enough to dominate the visual landscape.

Thats the funny part ! Just take a SAB pistol or the winter popgun , the noise !!!! I have been told to switch my sab gun to another skin cause of that noise  , people have no humor , ...hum.... or sensible ears 😛

[Polar.8634]

Yesterday was doing my daily fracs and strikes.

Had 3 mechs in fracs( and is was horrible, we did not have strips for no pain no gain, and they are always scattered not on healer). 

In strikes we had 5 mechs. Not as horrible as fracs, but also strikes are easier.

One point, if i continue have prolonged times with my routine daily farms coz mechs leave their characters autoattacking and go poo, I'll start kicking them.

Second point, where is mech versatility when they cannot strip at no pain no gain, in party of 5 i should strip as healer. So heal them, boon them, strip for them so they can use 1 skill. And then they say not enough heal .

Really, made me bit mad .

[soul.9651]

22 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

Yesterday was doing my daily fracs and strikes.

Had 3 mechs in fracs( and is was horrible, we did not have strips for no pain no gain, and they are always scattered not on healer). 

In strikes we had 5 mechs. Not as horrible as fracs, but also strikes are easier.

One point, if i continue have prolonged times with my routine daily farms coz mechs leave their characters autoattacking and go poo, I'll start kicking them.

Second point, where is mech versatility when they cannot strip at no pain no gain, in party of 5 i should strip as healer. So heal them, boon them, strip for them so they can use 1 skill. And then they say not enough heal .

Really, made me bit mad .

Funny part is they all can just take nullification sigils and you would have that boonstrip you are missing rn, but i doubt they would even put an effort to changing their weapon sigils considering all the effort they can do is just to  autoattack. On the other hand yes, its the supps job to do the boonstrip on top of everything if noone can do it. Altho these days anyone can do boonstrip they only need to change their build but thats the thing either people are too lazy or they just dont know their spec

Edited August 23, 2022 by soul.9651

[Polar.8634]

3 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

On the other hand yes, its the supps job to do the boonstrip on top of everything if noone can do it.

Why bother, more efficient to kick useless robot and take rev/necro/mesmer/ thief

[soul.9651]

6 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

Why bother, more efficient to kick useless robot and take rev/necro/mesmer/ thief

I mean mech already lets players to be lazy with their dps and if people refuse to do anything if needed (when they literaly can but just refuses to put any effort) they deserve the kick

[Ashen.2907]

7 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Its not a LI build, its an afk and beat the majority of players build by basically legalised in game botting build, gotta be more accurate with the naming. 

Also not sure what Game Obtena is playing, cause indeed Most people right now are playing Mechanist, this is factual due to number gathering websites. 

Most means greater than 50%. Do those sites, such as Wingman, show Mechs at that rate of representation?

[Polar.8634]

 https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity

26% for now. This statistics is only from people who use arc dps and share data with wingman. Also, it`s only for instanced content. 

 

From my expirience last few weeks in strikes, easily half or more of squad is mechanist. Franctals - usually 2 players are mechanist. I dont play raids latelly.

You have better info by just playing instance content yourself

[zeyeti.8347]

5 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

Yesterday was doing my daily fracs and strikes.

Had 3 mechs in fracs( and is was horrible, we did not have strips for no pain no gain, and they are always scattered not on healer). 

In strikes we had 5 mechs. Not as horrible as fracs, but also strikes are easier.

One point, if i continue have prolonged times with my routine daily farms coz mechs leave their characters autoattacking and go poo, I'll start kicking them.

Second point, where is mech versatility when they cannot strip at no pain no gain, in party of 5 i should strip as healer. So heal them, boon them, strip for them so they can use 1 skill. And then they say not enough heal .

Really, made me bit mad .

Me mech ! Me pew pew ! And me dont know who Mech Anics is.

Edited August 23, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Polar.8634]

13 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Me mech ! Me pew pew ! And me dont know who Mech Anics is.

Exactly my point, ty.

[Zaret.1450]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:35 PM, ThunderX.6591 said:

Renegade Alac give 100% alac uptime and do decent damage, is even better than Mecha you know that right?

So why people get Mecha? Robot, easy as that, People like robot even unconsciously, easy.

 

Sunchaser, you explain things nicely, even if post became a bit longher, so, could you start asking for some Buffs to the "not so good class" like power dh/wb, non spectre thiefs specs, the strangely negletted Reaper, and so on? Could help a lot.

alac rene does decent dmg, but thats it, mech does decent dmg, gives stab, aegis, power and barrier, also the mech dmg is half the pj and half the robot, so you can go do mecs or evade things and the robit will still do dmg, while rene, being decent, isnt even close, its cc is better but only if you use staff, wich drops your dmg to hell, you only give alac, and power and stab are there but power is a bit meh by itself, while for stab you need dwarf and swaping legends is more bothersome than just spam skill of cd.

maybe power wise theyre similar, but mech brings more things as a suport.

The robot thing is good on expan release and all that, but were months into the expan and most people already came back to "optimization" the best in slot, and fb and mech arent the 2 best, most used, and meta defining classes for nothing.

[ThunderX.6591]

With the patch today, Mecha was nerfed (again) on the condi side (again) and on the barrier side (half the barrier from original now, a new nerf).

Scrapper and holo was powered up (weapons powered up and some skills), but noone talk about them for now, noone talk about the Iboga ranger nerf, or about the powering up of some power build (that didn't need extra power, but get it, and for me, is ok, didn't bother me at all).

 

On the Renegade part, he do a lot more than the Mecha, but, is a bit more complicated to use, cause you need to "move" in combat, because you are "more versatile" than a mecha that can only hit with mace for giving alac............ play renegade is a lot more "moving intensive" than a normal Mecha, that is the main difference. But for alac, Renegade is better than mecha, but Mecha have the robot, ehehehehe, and like i say all time, many people choose it because of the Robot. Is in the login window, the main selling point of EOD (robot and tecnology), and so, from a businnes point of view, they hit the jackpot, even if they are nerfing it constantly for the last 4 patch at least.

But don't know, the Steam release if they continue with the nerfing could became a real nightmare for them.

[Karagee.6830]

27 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

With the patch today, Mecha was nerfed (again) on the condi side (again) and on the barrier side (half the barrier from original now, a new nerf).

Scrapper and holo was powered up (weapons powered up and some skills), but noone talk about them for now, noone talk about the Iboga ranger nerf, or about the powering up of some power build (that didn't need extra power, but get it, and for me, is ok, didn't bother me at all).

 

On the Renegade part, he do a lot more than the Mecha, but, is a bit more complicated to use, cause you need to "move" in combat, because you are "more versatile" than a mecha that can only hit with mace for giving alac............ play renegade is a lot more "moving intensive" than a normal Mecha, that is the main difference. But for alac, Renegade is better than mecha, but Mecha have the robot, ehehehehe, and like i say all time, many people choose it because of the Robot. Is in the login window, the main selling point of EOD (robot and tecnology), and so, from a businnes point of view, they hit the jackpot, even if they are nerfing it constantly for the last 4 patch at least.

But don't know, the Steam release if they continue with the nerfing could became a real nightmare for them.

The only balance nightmare is mechanist as currently constructed. The only reason why people from steam would pick engi is this broken build anyway, because it's broken. Engi has always been at the very bottom among all playable classes. So when they nerf mechanist at least 90% of the new players will be happy.

 

NERF NOW, NOT IN OCTOBER. In October it will be too late.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Karagee.6830