Should there be an elite and healing skill for every skill type?

[Kalthea.4326]

It has always bothered me that this isn't the case. Warrior is missing a shout and stance elite, guardian is missing spirit weapon and consecration elites, engineer is missing a gadget elite, Ranger is missing signet and trap, thief is missing signet and preparation, elementalist is missing signet and arcane, mesmer is missing illusion and mantra, and necro is missing a signet and a well. That's a lot of options to not have (and that's just the elites!) that could very well help to streamline builds, increase build diversity, and most importantly, allow for a focus if traitlines to ensure that a single build around a set of skills. Build entirely around minions, physical skills, shouts, mantras, canaries, arcane, etc. (These are just examples, you can already do that with some builds)

 

I feel that filling out some missing links for specific, dedicated builds would go a long way in helping balance, as it could give a better identity to different parts of professions.

[Mell.4873]

The one class that really needs some more ultimate skills is engineer so I totally agree with this idea. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Mell.4873

[crosknight.3041]

yes, it feels incomplete without 5 of each skills on each class. would love an ele elite signet and arcane skill  atleast until they nerf them

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yep. game needs more core skills for sure.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Yes. Considering that each Elite Spec offers a healing and elite skill of the new type I think it is fair that all skill types get a healing and elite skill.

[Artificer.3468]

Yeah I would like those skills to be made too

[Rauderi.8706]

Yes. For parity's sake and because there are still traits that effect them. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

They won't do it because then players would chose core classes over the elite specs. Its basically been the problem since the new specs were introduced, they always have to be better.

 

One of the things that makes core classes so clunky is the hodgepodge of skills. Most of the time they don't even synergise that well with each other, whereas elite spec skills are almost always designed with consistent themes and good synergy and completeness overall.

 

Its the same situation with the core trait lines to be honest.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Kalthea.4326]

37 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

They won't do it because then players would chose core classes over the elite specs. Its basically been the problem since the new specs were introduced, they always have to be better.

 

One of the things that makes core classes so clunky is the hodgepodge of skills. Most of the time they don't even synergise that well with each other, whereas elite spec skills are almost always designed with consistent themes and good synergy and completeness overall.

 

Its the same situation with the core trait lines to be honest.

See, that's why the cores should be the baseline. If you build around the core and offer better builds around that, then the elite specs can also benefit from that. Elite specs aren't generally the primary reason that people pick up an expansion, so I see no reason for that to be an issue.

 

Also, Revenant exists, and the cores in that have some issues too, and that entire profession is from HoT. But at the very least, because of how its designed, it has a healing and elite skill for each stance.

[Uete.3805]

In short: yes they do.

Also Rev should get an extra option for a 4th utility skill for each legend, allowing for a bit more build variety.

[Bazsi.2734]

Yes, and that was the original intent at some point. Some classes got new healing skills like Arcane_Brilliance , but then HoT got into development and this project was abandoned I guess.

[Bookah pls.9352]

Honestly this has always really bugged me. The opportunities available to anet here is pretty massive.

When you think about just how many excess hero points you have these days (even after deducting NEXT expansions espec) you have like what? 200ish points left? That's before grabbing a single hero point that exp will come with.

You could throw in some new abilities to core and even a whole new traitline and you would still have plenty of excess points to keep up the buffer of not needing every point.

 

Like just think how things could have evolved if we had some new core traitlines and abilities added instead of just slapping boons onto existing stuff and calling it balance.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

I agree with this suggestion.

[Kodama.6453]

Would be nice for sure. Unfortunately, this would require some reworks for the engineer class to make it really fair for all classes.

All other classes have 5 different utility skill types in core. Engineer is different, it just has 4 different core types (elixirs, kits, turrets, gadgets).

To make it fair, Anet would have to rework the class by deleting one skill of each utility type, then design a new type for engineer with new skills. Otherwise every other class will have 5 different core healing skills and elite skills, while engineer would just have 4, which doesn't seem really fair.

And this sound like a pretty big workload, but I would be in favour of it.
I would remove Elixir R, Tool Kit, Net Turret and Throw Mine and replace them with new trap skills. If this is done, engineer will also have 5 utility types to get healing and elite skills for. Which means engineer gets 1 new gadget elite skill, 1 trap healing skill and 1 elite trap.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Would be nice for sure. Unfortunately, this would require some reworks for the engineer class to make it really fair for all classes.

All other classes have 5 different utility skill types in core. Engineer is different, it just has 4 different core types (elixirs, kits, turrets, gadgets).

To make it fair, Anet would have to rework the class by deleting one skill of each utility type, then design a new type for engineer with new skills. Otherwise every other class will have 5 different core healing skills and elite skills, while engineer would just have 4, which doesn't seem really fair.

And this sound like a pretty big workload, but I would be in favour of it.
I would remove Elixir R, Tool Kit, Net Turret and Throw Mine and replace them with new trap skills. If this is done, engineer will also have 5 utility types to get healing and elite skills for. Which means engineer gets 1 new gadget elite skill, 1 trap healing skill and 1 elite trap.

Would you like to have banners?

[Kodama.6453]

19 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Would you like to have banners?

We already have them, we just call them turrets.

• stationary object (even destroyable)
• special effect on placement (overcharge vs banner drop)
• pulsing boons (if traited) with poor uptime

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

We already have them, we just call them turrets.

• stationary object (even destroyable)
• special effect on placement (overcharge vs banner drop)
• pulsing boons (if traited) with poor uptime

Want a duplicate?

[Legion.9617]

While engineer have less types, they have more skills per type.

[Kodama.6453]

36 minutes ago, Legion.9617 said:

While engineer have less types, they have more skills per type.

Yes, hence why I say they should delete 1 skill of each type to create another one.

If they don't do that, then there are 2 options:

1. Every other class gets 2 new elite skills and 1 new healing skill, while engineer just gets 1 new elite skill (gadget), since all the other skill categories already have an elite and healing skill. Which would be unfair in my opinion.
2. Engineer gets a second healing skill and elite skill for a skill type they already have one (for example, getting another healing and elite elixir, despite elixir h and elixir x already existing). It would be fair, since engineer would get the same number of new skills like the other classes, but would feel weird to have 2 of these for one category while the others just have 1.

So I think the best solution, if we really want to fill out the missing healing and elite skills, is to remove 1 skill of each type from engineer (so they have the same amount like other classes here) and rework them into a new skill category, so they also have the same amount of healing skills and elite skills as other classes with this update.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[otto.5684]

That would be nice, but not likely. And Anet has been almost ignoring pvp balance since EoD release. Imagine the level of show if new core skills were releases.

[Shadowwaka.1952]

I'd love to see each skill type get heals / elites! For those curious, I made a list of those ones missing elites here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/113921-missing-elite-skills

 

 

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Shadowwaka.1952 said:

I'd love to see each skill type get heals / elites! For those curious, I made a list of those ones missing elites here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/113921-missing-elite-skills

 

 

Clones and Phantasms should be combined for mesmer, maybe as a tag called "illusions". Then a new illusion elite skill added for them. Maybe summoning a strong, damage dealing phantasm which then generates not 1 but 2 clones when expiring?

They still would have to fix the engineer problem by reworking some skills, tho.

[Bunny.9834]

Yes and Yes. 

I think it would be cool to complete the line for all types and also to increase build diversity. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

Yup.