Do something about your trash matchmaking

[Bast.7253]

A team of gold 1-3's should not be going up against 4 people on the leaderboards, likely double duo queues. 

If you can't increase the population, (likely due to longstanding neglect to balance and the game mode in general) then adjust the algorithm. It clearly isn't working.

[Lysico.4906]

The double duo’s always amazes me. How can they not split them up??

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

8 minutes ago, Lysico.4906 said:

The double duo’s always amazes me. How can they not split them up??

Because one of them is on an alt and is technically rated silver, putting their DuoQ's average MMR rating somewhere around ~1,300

There's no check to make sure both teams have a Duo because Duo is broken and was shoehorned back in suddenly and without fanfare just to dry the tears of salty wintraders who "only want to play with friends" but that's really just code for "I'm going to pay $900 for a virtual nameplate and I want to stomp noobs with 0 effort to get there."

 

Down with the wintrader cartel 🧑‍🤝‍🧑👉🚪

[Bast.7253]

lol Another duo and a 500-60 stomp. 

Yikes. Maybe they just want this gamemode to die so there's less work for the 10 people still working on the live product? Idk. 

Gonna suck for these duos exploiting matchmaking and alt-hopping when they drive everyone out of the game mode and actually have to face people of a similar skill level. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

41 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

lol Another duo and a 500-60 stomp. 

Yikes. Maybe they just want this gamemode to die so there's less work for the 10 people still working on the live product? Idk. 

Gonna suck for these duos exploiting matchmaking and alt-hopping when they drive everyone out of the game mode and actually have to face people of a similar skill level. 

The win trading in NA is bad today.

I logged off earlier after 3x losses in a row and -41 rating from those losses.

The same guy in the top 10 was against me in all 3 of those games. I know who it was centered around, and he had a lot of synch queue with him while doing it this morning. In fact the synch queue was so strong this morning, that the first game's queue box popped 3x before everyone hit accept, the second game's queue box popped twice before accepts, and the third game again popped 3x before all accepted. And then of course all 3 games were a throw show, losing 500 to 100ish. Same exact pattern happened in each game where, your throw PUGs play normally to about 100 to 100, and then after allowing your team to get what they feel is a rational amount of points to avoid being noticed, they then super throw to make sure you lose. Like you can noticeably see these players drop from some bottom 1500 skill value down to 1100 explode on contact level game play. And the harder you play to make up for their sand-bagging, the harder they throw.

When you get a game or two in a row where that happens ^ it's just indication that a win trade clique is at work attempting to get their synchs into the right games. Best to stop queue.

I feel like this is a selfish thing to say but I don't feel bad about it:

~ I wish Arenanet would delete the ranked mode because if I can't have the game mode, I don't want the cheaters to have it either.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Stallic.2397]

Why can't wintraders just kitten'ing git gud?? They're actual skill rating is gold 1 at best

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I feel like this is a selfish thing to say but I don't feel bad about it:

~ I wish Arenanet would delete the ranked mode because if I can't have the game mode, I don't want the cheaters to have it either.

Finally. Honesty.

And this is honestly one of the most compelling arguments i've heard to remove Ranked.

 

Personally, I would be a lot more satisfied with taking back Ranked from the cartel rather than blowing the entire thing up. Take a few seasons to play the game like it was meant to be played, dabbing on the cartel the entire time.

But I suppose the end result will be the same. I would rather see them lose than win myself.

[Bazsi.2734]

Well I did something about my bad matchmaking. I totally solved the problem. Can you guess what I did?(Get rid of ranked-troubles with this one easy step, game developers hate him!)

[Pimsley.3681]

18 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

then after allowing your team to get what they feel is a rational amount of points to avoid being noticed, they then super throw to make sure you lose.

 

Happened to me recently, we had 2 caps, leading by 30pts 280 to 250 then one just AFK. the AFK was noticeable lol not as sneaky as your guys but probably from the same ilk. Play in NA. I knew what was going on and didn't say anything. It's disappointing people would stoop low and inconvenience the team, my time for their selfish gains 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Pimsley.3681

[Stand The Wall.6987]

trashmaking

[Khalisto.5780]

Duo q should have been gone like in 2018, now even its removal wont do much, but it would still be a good faith action from anet remove ir or lock it to 1500+ players

 

With steam release and ppl genuinely wanting to play with their friends theres a chance we getting team q back

Honestly it wouldnt be that bad if they locked any team q size to plat players or once you reach top 250

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Xentera.4560]

MMR is doing exactly what it is supposed to do: force a 50:50 win rate without seriously taking into account  any other factors  (including DuoQ). Kitten system for a kitten and abandoned game mode.

[ruikarikun.9402]

Today early morning I got 4 matches where one team always had 1 left.

All 4 matches I was on team with 3 players. 4 matches in a row 4 vs 5.

Plus opposites teams act pretty standard with toxic behavior, chasing, emotion, dancing etc.

How do you think steam players will be happy with this?

[ruikarikun.9402]

3 hours ago, Xentera.4560 said:

MMR is doing exactly what it is supposed to do: force a 50:50 win rate without seriously taking into account  any other factors  (including DuoQ). Kitten system for a kitten and abandoned game mode.

Explain me one thing.

I have matches, snowball, one sided. You do not need to be educated to say one team is have minimum 4 players from high tiers and other team looks like have full bonze or bronze + silver. Why not mix those players, so one team get a few bronzes/silver and weak team gets a few stronger, and score/game will feel not such insane one sided?

One argument I can imagine why they do one sided mm. They want to destroy pvp, make ppl leave.

[Xentera.4560]

3 minutes ago, ruikarikun.9402 said:

Explain me one thing.

I have matches, snowball, one sided. You do not need to be educated to say one team is have minimum 4 players from high tiers and other team looks like have full bonze or bronze + silver. Why not mix those players, so one team get a few bronzes/silver and weak team gets a few stronger, and score/game will feel not such insane one sided?

One argument I can imagine why they do one sided mm. They want to destroy pvp, make ppl leave.

That’s because the MMR decided that team A has to win and team B has to lose. And each player would be placed on the winning or losing team according to that player’s win rate. A system that literally discourages players from playing. Then people wonder on the forums why the population is so small. Why should I keep playing if your system is designed to keep my win rate around 50% no matter what I do?! 

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

trashmaking

matchtrashing.

[Bast.7253]

9 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

matchtrashing.

scratchmashing?

mashscratching?

 

rashscratching!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

21 hours ago, Xentera.4560 said:

MMR is doing exactly what it is supposed to do: force a 50:50 win rate without seriously taking into account  any other factors

I want to highlight this statement because this is somehow a great revelation. You are absolutely right. It really is just making 50/50 win rates over the course of time without considering anything else at all.

You know how a duo with one high rated and one low rated will EVENTUALLY result in those two having the same rating? This is because the high rated gets much less gains on wins and much heavier loss on losses, whilst the low rated gets very high gains on wins and much lower loss on losses. Over the course of time playing say 50 games together, a 1600 and a 1300 will end up both having like 1450 rating.

This same effect ^ is happening in the low population now, when you go to queue games and keep seeing the saaaame skew of people over and over and over. What is happening is that 1500+ mixed with 1400s and 1200s are all getting the same wins & losses as each other, and at the end of the queue session, people who started with ratings like 1550, 1475, 1350, 1300, 1260, if you were to look at everyone's rating by the end of that inhouse like queue session, those ratings turn more into like 1410, 1400, 1395, 1380, 1360, where everyone is getting shoved together into this extremely similar rating margin with only about 50 points difference between the noticeably very strong carry hard players and the virtually useless players.

This is again, because of what you said, it wants to force 50/50 match making for everyone, and it knows how to do it well. Glicko has fallen apart in low population. Go figure why people win trade. Sometimes I can't blame them.

[Marxx.5021]

Anet does nothing for PvP. I guess there is not even enough manpower left to shut it down.

[Bast.7253]

6 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

Anet does nothing for PvP. I guess there is not even enough manpower left to shut it down.

Yeah, I really have to wonder what they've been tied up with all this time or if everyone possible has been moved off to the expansion. 

If we look at upcoming releases we have: New armor set that has achievements, we had currency modifications and embolden mode (which I won't trivialize the undertaking of factoring this into the code but is just a buff to the players not mechanics changes), we've had challenge mode strike missions (yay I guess? Did Ion Hazzik-what's-his-face take over this game too and decide only elite end-gamers are worth producing content for?), we had a world boss revamp which is welcomed (but what is it in comparison to the previous revamps of world bosses that were done along with other content), and we have a new map coming... at some point in the future! 

Where is everyone? Is it just poor Ruby left making blog posts and like.. one guy that occasionally hops in to tweak columns in a database? 

Idk. It is sad though because the combat in this game and the physics system and coding that went into building this system from projectile reflects, dodges, combo finishers and fields,  etc, is a lot more advanced than you'll find in many other mmo's. They just don't seem to have a firm grasp on what they want to do to improve it - balance and build diversity aside - looking at you 23092309230 useless utility skills and traits that are underutilized in all game modes. 

People get excited about new elite specs and expansions but they could apply a fraction of that effort into revamping existing specs and classes and still get people excited to try things out. And there are so many good ideas on the forums but they often go unnoticed or not acknowledged. I'm not saying let the community balance your game (despite recent events insisting that's already happening in other media platforms) but they're fortunate to have a vehemently passionate playerbase that (from what I've seen from some of the posts on these forums) put a lot of thought and consideration into their suggestions that isn't simply rooted in bias or steam pouring from their ears. 

Maybe they want to weed people out naturally and be left with only the players that are satisfied with things exactly the way they are, Idk.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:22 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The win trading in NA is bad today.

I logged off earlier after 3x losses in a row and -41 rating from those losses.

The same guy in the top 10 was against me in all 3 of those games. I know who it was centered around, and he had a lot of synch queue with him while doing it this morning. In fact the synch queue was so strong this morning, that the first game's queue box popped 3x before everyone hit accept, the second game's queue box popped twice before accepts, and the third game again popped 3x before all accepted. And then of course all 3 games were a throw show, losing 500 to 100ish. Same exact pattern happened in each game where, your throw PUGs play normally to about 100 to 100, and then after allowing your team to get what they feel is a rational amount of points to avoid being noticed, they then super throw to make sure you lose. Like you can noticeably see these players drop from some bottom 1500 skill value down to 1100 explode on contact level game play. And the harder you play to make up for their sand-bagging, the harder they throw.

When you get a game or two in a row where that happens ^ it's just indication that a win trade clique is at work attempting to get their synchs into the right games. Best to stop queue.

I feel like this is a selfish thing to say but I don't feel bad about it:

~ I wish Arenanet would delete the ranked mode because if I can't have the game mode, I don't want the cheaters to have it either.

I DO wonder why the queue pops not even a half-second later...

[JTGuevara.9018]

12 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

Yeah, I really have to wonder what they've been tied up with all this time or if everyone possible has been moved off to the expansion. 

If we look at upcoming releases we have: New armor set that has achievements, we had currency modifications and embolden mode (which I won't trivialize the undertaking of factoring this into the code but is just a buff to the players not mechanics changes), we've had challenge mode strike missions (yay I guess? Did Ion Hazzik-what's-his-face take over this game too and decide only elite end-gamers are worth producing content for?), we had a world boss revamp which is welcomed (but what is it in comparison to the previous revamps of world bosses that were done along with other content), and we have a new map coming... at some point in the future! 

Where is everyone? Is it just poor Ruby left making blog posts and like.. one guy that occasionally hops in to tweak columns in a database? 

Idk. It is sad though because the combat in this game and the physics system and coding that went into building this system from projectile reflects, dodges, combo finishers and fields,  etc, is a lot more advanced than you'll find in many other mmo's. They just don't seem to have a firm grasp on what they want to do to improve it - balance and build diversity aside - looking at you 23092309230 useless utility skills and traits that are underutilized in all game modes. 

People get excited about new elite specs and expansions but they could apply a fraction of that effort into revamping existing specs and classes and still get people excited to try things out. And there are so many good ideas on the forums but they often go unnoticed or not acknowledged. I'm not saying let the community balance your game (despite recent events insisting that's already happening in other media platforms) but they're fortunate to have a vehemently passionate playerbase that (from what I've seen from some of the posts on these forums) put a lot of thought and consideration into their suggestions that isn't simply rooted in bias or steam pouring from their ears. 

Maybe they want to weed people out naturally and be left with only the players that are satisfied with things exactly the way they are, Idk.

Joke's on them. Then their titles become nothing but meaningless fluff since nobody is around to play lmao! It's like being the king of an empty castle lmao!

[Bast.7253]

17 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Joke's on them. Then their titles become nothing but meaningless fluff since nobody is around to play lmao! It's like being the king of an empty castle lmao!

They'll have mommy and daddy's credit card to purchase rigs to upload their 20 alt accounts so it won't be entirely empty! 

I just don't understand their pride in it when they go through such extreme lengths to game the system. I guess it's just delusion from not having to face adversity. But with how long it took them to address the nearly daily occurrences of teleport hackers it's kind of hard to take any of it seriously or assume that some of them aren't still using some third party software to "enhance" their innate super gaming abilities. 

I know I've faced quite a few people that either had an immaculate internet connection with 0 ping or some fancy macros to land all of their abilities in just the right order. I'm not the fastest person in the world, nor the brightest, but sometimes it just feels a little TOO reactive. 

[phokus.8934]

On 8/18/2022 at 2:38 PM, Xentera.4560 said:

MMR is doing exactly what it is supposed to do: force a 50:50 win rate without seriously taking into account  any other factors  (including DuoQ). Kitten system for a kitten and abandoned game mode.

Biggest misconception ever regarding match makers.  They do not force any 50% win rate whatsoever.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

56 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I DO wonder why the queue pops not even a half-second later...

Yeah something is weird lately. I don't think we are looking at just classic win trading anymore. Funny you bring this up, here are a few things I notice that are just.... strange.... and not typical of classic win trading or just a bad algorithm:

1. When the queue pops, we get what is it again, 25s or 30s to hit accept queue. If a normal player does not push accept and misses the queue, it will immediately boot that person who missed the box and requeue the match making in progress and you will immediately see at the top of your screen "match making in progress". However, when they are trying to land synchs into the same game, sometimes I will wait until the last second and watch the box check marks, to see how many people are not hitting accept. When MY time frame of 25s to 30s is up, I hit accept. Then somehow, the other person or two who did not yet hit accept, get some massively enlongated time frame to decide if they are hitting accept or decline. I've sat past the 25-30s timer and seen the queue box linger for upwards of almost 2 minutes before someone either declines or the match maker throws us back into "match making in progress", and then it immediately somehow finds another player to go back into queue. So you explain to me who it is and how are some of these accounts gaining the ability to greatly delay the accept timer or delay the requeue process, and who is waiting to push enter ranked queue after it resets queue? What in the actual f is going on there? You ever notice this? Ever see it? I see it often in ranked, that queue box taking waaaaaay longer to requeue than it should. You never see this happen in unranked. In unranked, if someone sincerely misses the queue, it instantly requeues the match after 25-30s is up, and generally takes upwards of 1 to 2 more minutes to actually find another player.
2. Unusual frequency of the same players being stacked on the same team, game after game, against a team of clearly much lower rated players being stacked on the same team, going against each other for several games in a row. I'm not even talking alt smurfing here. I'm talking like a plat+ duo who has a bottom 1500 or two with them and some top gold 3 vs. some lone 1500 who has 1x gold 3 and a few bottom gold 2s. And the team with all the plats in it are known main accounts that are somehow landing in the same team together for 3 or 4 matches in a row vs. a full team of people that are like 200 to 400 average party rating lower. And you can see that it isn't even throwing, they are just actual new or casual players who are trying hard that can't keep up. Please explain to me quite exactly how or why the algorithm would do this SEVERAL times in a row. I know I'm not the only one who notices these easy to spot patterns in the low population. If this were various alt smurfs it wouldn't confuse me, that would just be a big team of synch queues landing on w/e side they land on and choosing to throw or play. But when RED team has like 4 stacked known main account p1-2 material vs. BLUE team with one p1 and a buch of middle to low gold for 3 or 4 games in a row, what the hell is that? It should be skewing those ratings across both teams, not stacking one side for easy 500 to 80 win. Something is wrong with this lately.

People have cried conspiracy at me for 10 years now whenever I am the first to notice and/or point out these kinds of patterns that don't make sense, but lo & behold as the years had gone on, eventually things get exposed and come to find out I was right on every single thing I've noticed that didn't make sense.

I'm saying it again -> Whatever is going on with point 1) somehow people have figured out a way or have been granted access to a way to delay queues. As far as point 2), I am convinced there exists a way in ranked that some people have found a way or have been granted access to a feature that is allowing swapping players between RED & BLUE before a match starts, similar to or possibly exactly as the feature in custom arenas. We already know Arenanet partners have access to spectate any match in progress just like in custom arenas, so what other features from custom arenas are tied to ranked games that special admin access can use that we don't know about? Of course I can't prove any of this beyond observation that something is not making sense with these matches lately, in accordance to how the algorithm is supposed to work. If someone were able to selectively stack certain teams for wins before the matches began, it would perfectly explain just about every anomaly in this match making that can't be explained otherwise.

Not saying I'm correct or accurate with any of this, just pointing out to pay attention to these games lately.

There is a lot of something new going on that isn't just classic win trading.