Harbinger shouldn't be allowed to wear celestial gear

[Guirssane.7082]

Who agrees xd

[SleepyBat.9034]

Hahaha hilarious, now get out.

[Lysico.4906]

Harbinger are easy kills.   Assuming you just keep at 1200 range

[Xenesis.6389]

Hardly see Harbingers tbh, I think the fotm wore off and they went to mechanist like everyone else.

[cyberzombie.7348]

Idk about that but they definitely shouldn't have insta access to every boon in the game while giving out an array of conditions in a single button.

Edited August 22, 2022 by cyberzombie.7348

[Junkpile.7439]

Killed celestial harbringer in 4 vs 1 fight. I did have to whisper him and ask how he manage lose like that against only 4 players. Dude was like i use celestial, not trailblazer you stupid ****** and blocked me. Made my day. 😁

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Hardly see Harbingers tbh, I think the fotm wore off and they went to mechanist like everyone else.

you hardly see any harbinger atm, because their GM trait "weakening shroud" is broken right now and not working.

Thus they dont have as much weakness application -> not as many stacks of might from aristocracy-> aristocracy is no longer worth it -> people gravitate towards speed/antitoxin -> people notice that a celebuild with 0 might deals no damage-> they play thief or Mechanist.

If they fix "weakening shroud" we will see Harbingers in WvW and PvP again.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Guirssane.7082]

Tbh I'm just hating because it's impossible for my zerk/toughness Holo to win this match-up, like many celestial match-up. Cause this gear is beyond broken for roaming

[Sahne.6950]

31 minutes ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Tbh I'm just hating because it's impossible for my zerk/toughness Holo to win this match-up, like many celestial match-up. Cause this gear is beyond broken for roaming

tbh, Celeharbinger, if the trait would work, is without a doubt the strongest roamer, if we determin strength by winning most matchups against other builds.

A good Celeharbinger, with all of its traits working, is borderline impossible to beat in a fair /bow 1v1.  But you can run away from them 😅

Edited August 23, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[kmfart.7480]

Then perhaps PvP is more your gaming style, they don't have much gear options anymore, so now u can win again. Perhaps they could also remove enemy weapons for you, so you can feel safe again.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

IME a lot of cele harbinger players are remarkably ignorant they're playing a busted build, and get super offended if you point it out. Kinda like the ones in here.

[ASP.8093]

2 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Tbh I'm just hating because it's impossible for my zerk/toughness Holo to win this match-up, like many celestial match-up. Cause this gear is beyond broken for roaming

Holo has a lot of trouble with damage output besides a few burst skills (and the Photon Forge fingerguns are incredibly anemic in SPvP/WvW, so it's way less burst than in PvE) so any class with a lot of health and sustain is pretty strong against it, in my experience.

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

IME a lot of cele harbinger players are remarkably ignorant they're playing a busted build, and get super offended if you point it out. Kinda like the ones in here.

Oh I'm very much aware how broken a good Cele Harbinger is, they really should tweak it a bit to make it a little more fair. When it gets to the point where it's normal to win a 1v2 you know somethings needs to change haha.

[SleepyBat.9034]

3 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Tbh I'm just hating because it's impossible for my zerk/toughness Holo to win this match-up, like many celestial match-up. Cause this gear is beyond broken for roaming

That's understandable I don't think even my boon Holo build could beat a good Cele Harbinger, at least not a death magic one.

[Shroud.2307]

I'm not going to say Cele Harbi isn't broken, because it is, but it's also easier to deal with than people care to learn.

This is Harbinger remember, maximum health will be reduced, it doesn't have protective Shroud, and it's not an evasive or very mobile spec.

I'm not trying to downplay the strength of it, but what makes it so strong is how quickly it snowballs a fight. If you use your cleanse(s) and stunbreaks wisely, the best way to deal with them is to be hyper aggressive. Don't try to work the field waiting for openings, as soon as the Harbi has you on the backfoot the fight is over. The amount of pressure and passive sustain it has means as soon as you try to back off to recover you're going to be stuck trying to kite while the Harbi is getting passive health back.

Counter or avoid the CC, dump your damage on them, and don't panic cleanse. 

I think I could agree that Cele is most obnoxious on Harbi or maybe Mechanist, but practicing against it and learning how it plays is the best way to lessen your frustrations against it.

[Riba.3271]

Cele is just stupid on anything right now. 70+% of power damage of full berserker while being unkillable. Granted you can disengage from them or run heavy sustain+burst build to RNG victory with crits. I dont know which idiot thought giving already decent stat line 40%+ boon duration and 40%+ condi duration for free was fine.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Riba.3271

[Galmac.4680]

Much worse are that unkillable guardians (newest spec), mech-ingies with a huge damage output… and and and

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

When it gets to the point where it's normal to win a 1v2 you know somethings needs to change haha.

HAHA!

You mean: "When it gets to the point where it's normal to win a 1v2, Without even running a-GM trait, you know somethings needs to change haha.

[Guirssane.7082]

17 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Holo has a lot of trouble with damage output besides a few burst skills (and the Photon Forge fingerguns are incredibly anemic in SPvP/WvW, so it's way less burst than in PvE) so any class with a lot of health and sustain is pretty strong against it, in my experience.

Ye that's true, I can't win Cele match-up cause they just outsustain me even if I kite correctly. I could just play Cele Holo but that's kinda boring. They shouldn't have buffed Cele in the first place imo. 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

The cele dual pistol daredevil build that's floating around actually has a good matchup into cele harbinger, because it stays at range and applies constant bleed while passively cleansing everything the harbinger does. Bound + antitoxin runes + new shadow arts = up to 6 condis cleansed per stealth rotation, make sure to stand in the black powder as you sneak attack for even more blind spam. That said, that build is also utter cheese so probably isn't the best measure of things haha. 

[Guirssane.7082]

17 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

I'm not going to say Cele Harbi isn't broken, because it is, but it's also easier to deal with than people care to learn.

This is Harbinger remember, maximum health will be reduced, it doesn't have protective Shroud, and it's not an evasive or very mobile spec.

I'm not trying to downplay the strength of it, but what makes it so strong is how quickly it snowballs a fight. If you use your cleanse(s) and stunbreaks wisely, the best way to deal with them is to be hyper aggressive. Don't try to work the field waiting for openings, as soon as the Harbi has you on the backfoot the fight is over. The amount of pressure and passive sustain it has means as soon as you try to back off to recover you're going to be stuck trying to kite while the Harbi is getting passive health back.

Counter or avoid the CC, dump your damage on them, and don't panic cleanse. 

I think I could agree that Cele is most obnoxious on Harbi or maybe Mechanist, but practicing against it and learning how it plays is the best way to lessen your frustrations against it.

I played this match up like 50 times against a friend around plat 1 level (just like me), I won maybe 3 times because I kited him well but let's be honest, it's almost impossible to win against this if you're not using Cele yourself or have tons of condi cleanse.

If the dude has the same skill level as you, GL winning this class. 

[Sleepwalker.1398]

40 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

The cele dual pistol daredevil build that's floating around actually has a good matchup into cele harbinger, because it stays at range and applies constant bleed while passively cleansing everything the harbinger does. Bound + antitoxin runes + new shadow arts = up to 6 condis cleansed per stealth rotation, make sure to stand in the black powder as you sneak attack for even more blind spam. That said, that build is also utter cheese so probably isn't the best measure of things haha. 

Also double rifle DE is now better with Shadow Arts changes.
Not many have caught up.

[Sahne.6950]

52 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

The cele dual pistol daredevil build that's floating around actually has a good matchup into cele harbinger, because it stays at range and applies constant bleed while passively cleansing everything the harbinger does. Bound + antitoxin runes + new shadow arts = up to 6 condis cleansed per stealth rotation, make sure to stand in the black powder as you sneak attack for even more blind spam. That said, that build is also utter cheese so probably isn't the best measure of things haha. 

you should try the p/p + p/p build with energy sigils / sigil of battle and aristocracy rune.

This way you are sitting at 25 might with the build and deal a wagonload of damage.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you should try the p/p + p/p build with energy sigils / sigil of battle and aristocracy rune.

This way you are sitting at 25 might with the build and deal a wagonload of damage.

You can get to 25 might with antitoxin runes and strength/energy sigils just by throwing an unload in during the reveal timer between stealth rotations. Aristocracy is great if you don't need much cleanse, but antitoxin is better if you do. 

[Karagee.6830]

On 8/22/2022 at 11:17 PM, Lysico.4906 said:

Harbinger are easy kills.   Assuming you just keep at 1200 range

I'd say 2k range just to be on the safe side...