New Character Gem Store question

[Gladamire.8436]

Hello, 

Was wondering if the getting the unbreakable tools and copper vendor machine are good for new players or should you expereince the game as it is before getting those?

 

[Endaris.1452]

Both are very optional, the copper salvage-o-matic is certainly the more useful item because you can put it into a shared inventory slot and use it on all characters.

The unbreakable tools are just one set of tools and you'll have to keep switching them around your characters and (un)equip them every time you change character so their convenience value is limited in comparison. The only event in which permanent gathering tools are worth it is if they hold a good glyph (specifically the volatile magic gathering tools) that actually makes you recoup the cost in T5/T6 mats over a span of 1-4 years. Or alternatively if the specific gathering tool has a reduced cast time, specifically the Consortium Harvesting Sickle or the Fused Molten Sickle. Making you actually save time on gathering during home instance or node farm.

[DeanBB.4268]

I'd say the copper fed is an excellent addition. You'll want it in a shared inventory slot so all characters can use it.

Unbreakable tools are also a great QoL addition, but you might wait until a set with nice glyphs is available or on sale. You will want shared slots for those as well.

Once you have unbreakable tools in shared slots, equip normal tools in each character. Log in, double click each tool in the shared slots to swap them in, then double click the normal tools to swap them back before you log out.

Having all those makes the game better, and frees up each character from carrying multiple tools in inventory.

[Doggie.3184]

They're probably the most useful things to get starting out with limited space~ but you're better off getting Volitile set for the glyphs when they return~ and bag slots when you figure out which character you like most, especially for lengthy PvE/WvW adventures.

I have a ton of alts but mostly focus on one or two at a time to where my inventory space doesn't really matter much on the ones camping areas so I don't bother switching Tools around even though I could most of the time. You don't really have to worry about Shared Slots for tools atm imo, people here are used to min maxing and gathering on tons of alts end-game but as a new player who cares. 🙂Have fun and worry about micromanaging some other time.

Do fill all your character slots now though for birthday gifts. Optional "Keyfarming" slot in future is nice too. /Wiki it. 🙂 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Razadune.9260]

1 minute ago, Doggie.3184 said:

You don't really have to worry about Shared Slots for tools atm imo, people here are used to min maxing and gathering on tons of alts end-game but as a new player who cares.

I just use bank space to transfer things like ascended gear or gathering tools between characters. Shared slots I reserve for more permanent things, like living world teleport scrolls and my copper/silver fed salvage tools. Not mandatory by any means, but it does save time and helps with muscle memory using them since they're always in the same place no matter which character you're playing.     

The copper fed salvage tool is worth the gems because it's fairly cheap and it's a big quality of life improvement. I personally think the gathering tools are just as important, but absolutely wait and buy some with glyphs included. Some glyphs are better than others, but any glyph is better than none so I wouldn't buy tools without one included if I was just starting off and didn't already have some to swap in.    

     

Good advice here all around from everybody so far. The important thing is just using these different options to tailor your experience to your own play style; for some people they won't matter much, for others it's the difference between a frustrating game session and one where you can focus on what you want instead. 

[Westenev.5289]

Copper Salvage'o'matic is amazing, because you can stick it in a shared inventory slot and never have to worry about getting salvage kits for white/blue/green gear. But it's definately an upgrade you'll only want if you want to sink some hours into gw2.

 

Unbreakable tools aren't alt-friendly since they're items you have to move between and equip to individual characters, and "breakable" tools you get from street vendors are already super durable (100 uses for axe/pickaxe, 50 uses for the sickle), and if you're worried about running out, you can just keep a spare set of orichalcum tools in your characters inventory (they cost like 4s, so they're cheap as chips).

Edited September 1, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[costepj.5120]

2 hours ago, Razadune.9260 said:

I just use bank space to transfer things like ascended gear or gathering tools between characters. Shared slots I reserve for more permanent things, like living world teleport scrolls and my copper/silver fed salvage tools.

Everyone has their own way of playing and I have all the above in Shared Inventory. However, if I had to store some stuff in the bank instead, it would be the teleport scrolls (except for Mistlock ofc!). I jump to a living world map maybe once or twice during a session, so popping to the bank in Mistlock first wouldn't be an issue, whereas I use the gathering tools all the time. I have leatherworker glyphs in each tool, which turns every map into a leather farm!

[RadiantWolf.2058]

I assume you're talking about the Steam starter pack? It's a good bundle but to me the best were the copper fed and character expansion.

Copper fed is great quality of life but as a new player none of these are super necessary. If you want to get them go for them though, they're not going to interfere with your experience and change how you play the game.

[Danikat.8537]

My approach to gem store items is to periodically look through it to remind myself what's available, then wait and see what annoys me enough that I think it's worth paying to get rid of that problem.

For example I didn't get infinite gathering tools when they first became available because I had more than enough tool for all my characters (even without buying them from merchants) and it didn't seem worth the cost. Later, once my main character had been level 80 for a while I found she was skipping around maps a lot and 'wasting' ori tools on lower tier materials bothered me, but constantly swapping to ones appropriate for the map and making sure I had spares also bothered me, so I bought some infinite tools. (Then wished I'd waited longer because ones with better animations came out, but that's not an issue now.)

I've been playing for 10 years and still don't have a copper-fed salvage-o-matic and don't want one. I use mystic forge stones to make Mystic Salvage Kits with 250 uses and (I think because I don't do meta events on a daily basis) they last me quite a while before I have to make another one so it's not annoying. (I've also never needed to buy mystic forge stones to make the kits, if I did then I'd get a copper-fed instead.) I did buy a runecrafter's salvage kit a few months ago, which I use for green quality items.

[Southerncarl.2740]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

My approach to gem store items is to periodically look through it to remind myself what's available, then wait and see what annoys me enough that I think it's worth paying to get rid of that problem.

For example I didn't get infinite gathering tools when they first became available because I had more than enough tool for all my characters (even without buying them from merchants) and it didn't seem worth the cost. Later, once my main character had been level 80 for a while I found she was skipping around maps a lot and 'wasting' ori tools on lower tier materials bothered me, but constantly swapping to ones appropriate for the map and making sure I had spares also bothered me, so I bought some infinite tools. (Then wished I'd waited longer because ones with better animations came out, but that's not an issue now.)

I've been playing for 10 years and still don't have a copper-fed salvage-o-matic and don't want one. I use mystic forge stones to make Mystic Salvage Kits with 250 uses and (I think because I don't do meta events on a daily basis) they last me quite a while before I have to make another one so it's not annoying. (I've also never needed to buy mystic forge stones to make the kits, if I did then I'd get a copper-fed instead.) I did buy a runecrafter's salvage kit a few months ago, which I use for green quality items.

 

 

Anet adding problems to the game to make it less convenient so they can sell the player the solution to make it more convenient. Sabotaging their own game to make a bit more money. What a sad world of microtransactions we live in.

 

[Danikat.8537]

28 minutes ago, Southerncarl.2740 said:

Anet adding problems to the game to make it less convenient so they can sell the player the solution to make it more convenient. Sabotaging their own game to make a bit more money. What a sad world of microtransactions we live in.

I don't think that's entirely accurate, because a lot of these inconveniences were in the game since launch and the solutions weren't in the gem store until years later. If that was a deliberate plan it doesn't make any sense to wait that long to start profiting from it.

In these specific cases balancing the economy might be a factor as well. Gathering tools and salvage kits were originally designed as a gold sink - something players have to buy regularly to craft/sell materials and gold sinks are very important in MMOs to avoid inflation which makes everything less convenient. It might be the only way they could justify adding infinite versions was making them so expensive it takes years to break even vs. using the consumable tools bought from merchants. (If you buy the karma ones with extra effects, then it would take even longer.)

But also you're never going to find an MMO made by infinitely wealthy altruists which doesn't have any costs for players because that doesn't happen. The only option is to decide which business models are acceptable to you, and if you find one which gives you the choice, which of those costs you want to pay.

I haven't bought most of the convenience items in the gem store and I don't feel like my experience is being "sabotaged" as a result. Given that I'd also prefer to buy things I want as and when I want them to paying a subscription (and these days also dealing with a cash shop on top of that) I'd say it works out pretty well for me as a player.

[Southerncarl.2740]

2 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I don't think that's entirely accurate, because a lot of these inconveniences were in the game since launch and the solutions weren't in the gem store until years later. If that was a deliberate plan it doesn't make any sense to wait that long to start profiting from it.

In these specific cases balancing the economy might be a factor as well. Gathering tools and salvage kits were originally designed as a gold sink - something players have to buy regularly to craft/sell materials and gold sinks are very important in MMOs to avoid inflation which makes everything less convenient. It might be the only way they could justify adding infinite versions was making them so expensive it takes years to break even vs. using the consumable tools bought from merchants. (If you buy the karma ones with extra effects, then it would take even longer.)

But also you're never going to find an MMO made by infinitely wealthy altruists which doesn't have any costs for players because that doesn't happen. The only option is to decide which business models are acceptable to you, and if you find one which gives you the choice, which of those costs you want to pay.

I haven't bought most of the convenience items in the gem store and I don't feel like my experience is being "sabotaged" as a result. Given that I'd also prefer to buy things I want as and when I want them to paying a subscription (and these days also dealing with a cash shop on top of that) I'd say it works out pretty well for me as a player.

 

True a lot of the inconveniences were in the game from the beginning but I feel now they are targeting these inconveniences for monetization rather than just upgrading the game and making the game more convenient for the player experience. Now what you have is them purposefully leaving the inconvenience in the game to sell the solution which isn't good for the game. I don't mind monetizing cosmetics although it's not great but now it's spread to things like paying for extra bag slots, paying for extra build slots, bank tab expansions, storage expander. The game wasn't free you paid for the base game, heart of thorns, path of fire and end of dragons. These kind of very basic systems within the game of bag slots and build slots should be completely free. It's too much monetization it's starting to feel like a mobile game rather than a successful mmo.

[Mungrul.9358]

Fully with you @Southerncarl.2740

I mean, I've spent a small fortune on "fixing" the game at this point (thanks to some good luck during the pandemic, I have plenty of disposable income), but I wouldn't resent the QoL items I have bought being made available to everybody for free.

I would appreciate ANet a lot more if they followed Grinding Gear Games' example from Path of Exile and purely sold cosmetics.

 

Hell, if I could, I'd even buy the remaining legendary items I need for my account (rings, backpack and armours; you're missing a trick here ANet).

But even more so, I'd prefer it if ANet made free stat swapping available on all gear tiers.

[kharmin.7683]

6 hours ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Copper Salvage'o'matic is amazing, because you can stick it in a shared inventory slot and never have to worry about getting salvage kits for white/blue/green gear. But it's definately an upgrade you'll only want if you want to sink some hours into gw2.

 

 

Many players talk about how great this item is, but IIRC someone did an analysis and found that you would have to do a TON of salvaging just to break even on it.  So, yes, if you're going to sink hours into GW2, this might be worth the investment.

[Gibson.4036]

Copper fed doesn’t really become necessary until you’re doing level 80 metas, IMO. Until then, you don’t really get inundated with salvageable gear.

As long as you make sure to get bigger bags (18 slot is where I personally think the cost/slot is ideal), deposit materials and sell junk to vendors regularly, you’ll have plenty of room as a new player.

Having said that, Copper Fed is absolutely the first QoL gemstore item I’d recommend to new players. 

Before unbreakable gathering tools, I’d recommend a bank tab or two, and a crafting material expander, but those are a lot more debatable.

If you play more than one character at all, expect that the cost of unbreakable tools also comes with the cost of three shared inventory slots.

[Mungrul.9358]

Oh, and it's deplorable that the Permanent Bank Access Express is a gamble-box item and can't even be bought directly from the gem store. That functionality should be available to everyone by default.

[Gibson.4036]

2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Many players talk about how great this item is, but IIRC someone did an analysis and found that you would have to do a TON of salvaging just to break even on it.  So, yes, if you're going to sink hours into GW2, this might be worth the investment.

I don’t know anyone buys it thinking they’re getting a financial benefit. It’s entirely about the perpetual hassle of having to stock salvage kits.

Its a bearable hassle, until you get to level 80 metas that throw dozens of unid gear pieces at you in a very short amount of time. Without copper fed, this requires multiple inventory slots of basic salvaging kits, and would even burn through mystic salvage kits ridiculously fast.

[Mungrul.9358]

1 minute ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I don’t know anyone buys it thinking they’re getting a financial benefit. It’s entirely about the perpetual hassle of having to stock salvage kits.

Yeah, I didn't even think about the financials of the things when I bought my salvage-o-matics. It was purely convenience, and fixing an artificial problem ANet had created.

[Danikat.8537]

Out of curiosity how do other MMOs handle this? Do they somehow ensure you only get drops you actually need and anything extra is purely in the form of gold? Do they let everyone salvage for free? Something else entirely?

My other MMO is Elder Scrolls Online and that's pretty similar to GW2, although it doesn't have anything like map meta-events. You'll do a dungeon or two and end up with a bag full of gear (which doesn't stack like unid does), most of which you won't need on that character, so then you have to go to the bank to store it or sell it through a guild store, sell it to a merchant or go to a crafting station to deconstruct it for materials. Or you can buy bank, merchant and deconstruction assistants in the cash shop which allow you to do it anywhere.

Other than those two and GW1 I've only really played Ultima Online which is so different it's not really comparable (it certainly didn't have a functional economy when I played it) and I never got into doing dungeons in that game, I was mainly taming and selling mounts. But even in single-player RPGs inventory management is a fairly common problem, they just don't give you a solution (paid extra or otherwise), you either leave stuff on the ground or go back to town to sell it. I'm kind of curious about what I've been missing out on for decades by missing games that do it better.

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, Westenev.5289 said:

Unbreakable tools aren't alt-friendly since they're items you have to move between and equip to individual characters, and "breakable" tools you get from street vendors are already super durable (100 uses for axe/pickaxe, 50 uses for the sickle), and if you're worried about running out, you can just keep a spare set of orichalcum tools in your characters inventory (they cost like 4s, so they're cheap as chips).

They're not alt-friendly indeed, but that the ones from street vendors are "super durable" I have to disagree with. Before I had  unbreakable tools I used to bring like 3-4 of each with me so I wouldn't run out too quickly. Since they don't stack it's rather inventory unfriendly, especially for new players. Think of it, 100 uses is roughly 33 nodes. They really don't last that long if you're keen on gathering.

[DeanBB.4268]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

...I would appreciate ANet a lot more if they followed Grinding Gear Games' example from Path of Exile and purely sold cosmetics....

Path of Exile absolutely does sell more than cosmetics in their shop. I haven't played for a while, but if you want expanded storage, you pay. I seem to remember their pricing being such that you pay $5 or $10 for their version of gems and the $5 wasn't enough so you'd pay $10 but then have extras, so would chip in another $10 for the next thing, but also have extra. And so on. I probably have unspent gems.

[Mungrul.9358]

3 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Path of Exile absolutely does sell more than cosmetics in their shop.

Thanks for the correction; last time I played, not even storage was available, it was purely cosmetics.

Although, it hasn't expanded beyond that from checking the store. It's still cosmetics and now storage, but nothing else.

[DeanBB.4268]

It's still a huge QoL in Exile with all the junk you collect. Very similar to what we're talking here.

[Westenev.5289]

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Many players talk about how great this item is, but IIRC someone did an analysis and found that you would have to do a TON of salvaging just to break even on it.  So, yes, if you're going to sink hours into GW2, this might be worth the investment.

 

After PoF, the game moved into a loot in lootbox in lootbox direction. 8 stacks of 25x salvage kits couldn't keep up with 2 or 3 meta events and I'd be constantly forced to visit the street vendors.

 

It isn't even a question of value, it's just QoL. xD

[Shena Fu.5792]

13 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Many players talk about how great this item is, but IIRC someone did an analysis and found that you would have to do a TON of salvaging just to break even on it.  So, yes, if you're going to sink hours into GW2, this might be worth the investment.

That's a fallacy. the ROI argument on copper-fed is only if a player traded gold for gems. But if you buy gems with real money or got the gems for free, then copper-fed's is one of the best items to have.

As for tools, you don't have to buy them with gems. You can also buy them for 45 statuettes. Until then, buy tools with karma. Regardless, avoid the "Unbreakable" set. These are slow and have post-channel delay. Instead try to get tools that come with glyphs (and possibly other advantages).

Recommend new players spend gems on copper-fed and extra character slots.