Sudden Soulbeast Love

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Any theories as to why big changes for soulbeast (not that I'm really complaining here mind you) over Untamed?

Removing the one pet swap tradeoff is interesting to say the least--and to double down on that with merge swapping seems to entirely replace Untamed in the APM department, but with actual reward.  

The Druid changes at least followed some sort of logic, even if I personally don't agree fully with some of it.  

Soulbeast though? Are they rolling D20s over there and we hit a critical role? 😂

[Arheundel.6451]

No theories....no untamed changes this patch, guess with November patch.

Losing mass cleanse with Druidic clarity will hurt rangers a lot, the support part will make happy the "wannabe clerics" but roaming druids will hate the change....

But Untamed needs something more, it's about to be replaced in pvp/wvw and maybe pve..sad day

[Rysdude.3824]

They’re finally allowing pet swap while merged, so now I don’t have to deal with the pet while still building for variety.

Hello again, Soulbeat. My dear friend.

[Sznurek.8791]

Pet swap while merged will be so much fun. 
I don't remember when my first thought listening/reading patch notes was "Wow, I really want to try it."

[Beddo.1907]

32 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

But Untamed needs something more, it's about to be replaced in pvp/wvw and maybe pve..sad day

I'm guessing they didn't finish Untamed as promised due to CMC coming in before it was done. (Which is probably for the better.)

34 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Losing mass cleanse with Druidic clarity will hurt rangers a lot, the support part will make happy the "wannabe clerics" but roaming druids will hate the change....

For me it was rare to use up all 13 cleanses, usually it was 3-6 unless going vs something like Harbinger, so I like the new Clarity more. Also quick cast seed makes it closer to 5-6 when you just want to stealth. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

No theories....no untamed changes this patch, guess with November patch.

Losing mass cleanse with Druidic clarity will hurt rangers a lot, the support part will make happy the "wannabe clerics" but roaming druids will hate the change....

But Untamed needs something more, it's about to be replaced in pvp/wvw and maybe pve..sad day

I mean... we're losing 10 cleanses (which we still have options for, i.e. heal spring, CA 2, or glyph of alignment) in exchange for group cleansing. And it could be tuned up pretty easily if it's too low.

[Downstate.4697]

Soulbeast changes push untamed out of the meta imo.

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Removing the one pet swap tradeoff is interesting to say the least--and to double down on that with merge swapping seems to entirely replace Untamed in the APM department, but with actual reward.  

Soulbeast always had a double trade off by loosing the pet when merging and also loosing one of the pets :  it was due to remove some of the overcomplicated garbage nerfs they done to the class.
In fact is don't think is enough, the pet swap while merged should be baseline, i don't understand why gating behind a trait. 

This will make Eternal Bond best on slot period. Which is an issue as now Soulbeast will go back into very selfish builds locking them out from any squad. Also the healing on every merged skill has a lot of lottery tickets to become very problematic balance wise. 
Increasing the range of the Leader of the Pack is not what it needs, otherwise that build would have a real slot in organized squads.

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The Druid changes at least followed some sort of logic, even if I personally don't agree fully with some of it.  

Agreed, most of them change nothing, the only good ones by removing the chanelling from the elite (who would have thought) and the possibility to use the staff on allies. 

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Please don't remove Minor Seeds of Life from this trait. Especially since Druidic Clarity is having it's Condi Removal reduced from 13 condi's to 3. As well as Glyph of the Stars no longer cancelling out all Condi's.. this is overall a huge nerf to Druid's ability to cleanse itself and counter heavy condi in PvP, forcing dedicated Druids to take core skills instead for condi cleansing (for example, survival skills and signets)

Also with the removal of Minor seed of Life from the traitline, where is a Druid supposed to have access to light combo fields? You've gutted this trait and in it's place put 3 Seconds of Protection. Which is a good buff but I wouldn't choose it over having access to cleanses and light fields.

[Arheundel.6451]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Soulbeast always had a double trade off by loosing the pet when merging and also loosing one of the pets :  it was due to remove some of the overcomplicated garbage nerfs they done to the class.
In fact is don't think is enough, the pet swap while merged should be baseline, i don't understand why gating behind a trait. 

This will make Eternal Bond best on slot period. Which is an issue as now Soulbeast will go back into very selfish builds locking them out from any squad. Also the healing on every merged skill has a lot of lottery tickets to become very problematic balance wise. 
Increasing the range of the Leader of the Pack is not what it needs, otherwise that build would have a real slot in organized squads.

Agreed, most of them change nothing, the only good ones by removing the chanelling from the elite (who would have thought) and the possibility to use the staff on allies. 

Soulbeast will be nerfed later on....removing the "trade off," removed the only reason to play core ranger over soulbeast, now you will have a core ranger with dolyak stance..and ability to ress pets instantly for a fraction of the time, now soulbeast will take over Untamed too

[Abyssisis.3971]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Any theories as to why big changes for soulbeast (not that I'm really complaining here mind you) over Untamed?

Removing the one pet swap tradeoff is interesting to say the least--and to double down on that with merge swapping seems to entirely replace Untamed in the APM department, but with actual reward.  

The Druid changes at least followed some sort of logic, even if I personally don't agree fully with some of it.  

Soulbeast though? Are they rolling D20s over there and we hit a critical role? 😂

I reckon anet has finally realised that they can’t fix pets without a full rework from the ground up, which isn’t possible at this stage so it was easier to undo the trade off for soulbeasts.

[Rysdude.3824]

How do you all think they will balance having two archetypes and its skills so readily available? Increase pet swap cooldowns while merged? Have both beast skills share the same cooldown?

[Zaret.1450]

14 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Any theories as to why big changes for soulbeast (not that I'm really complaining here mind you) over Untamed?

Removing the one pet swap tradeoff is interesting to say the least--and to double down on that with merge swapping seems to entirely replace Untamed in the APM department, but with actual reward.  

The Druid changes at least followed some sort of logic, even if I personally don't agree fully with some of it.  

Soulbeast though? Are they rolling D20s over there and we hit a critical role? 😂

my take is that untamed, instead of balances for itself, needs a pet sistem rework, think that sb is more self reliant, the pet just gives stats and 3 skills, and the new swap is interesting and a good thing that will help it a lot after owp lost its uniqueness.

While untamed relies on its pets, and a lot, so maybe theyre waiting for a moment where they can make mecanic changes to some classes and then well see untamed changes

[Arheundel.6451]

13 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I'm guessing they didn't finish Untamed as promised due to CMC coming in before it was done. (Which is probably for the better.)

For me it was rare to use up all 13 cleanses, usually it was 3-6 unless going vs something like Harbinger, so I like the new Clarity more. Also quick cast seed makes it closer to 5-6 when you just want to stealth. 

Rare to use all 13 cleanses? Just try to roam for few mins during peak times and you will be condi bombed to kingdom come in no time. Mass condi clear is so important right now and to reduce the condi cleanse from 13 to just 3 it's a uber nerf.

Druidic clarity has supported ranger for years through all the condi spam metas, the whole point of roaming on druid was to have a chance against heavy condi roaming meta, which has been years for almost a decade now.

Honestly who gives an absolute kitten about the "group removal", you still have pets wiped during group fights and now druid is that much weaker to massive condi burst, it's not just me...other "prominent" ranger players have noticed too

The ranger changes on paper look good...but people will realize when they start playing

[anduriell.6280]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Soulbeast will be nerfed later on....removing the "trade off," removed the only reason to play core ranger over soulbeast, now you will have a core ranger with dolyak stance..and ability to ress pets instantly for a fraction of the time, now soulbeast will take over Untamed too

Well that is the case with every class, or does core ele has any different uses to a tempest. 

Aside from that the double trade off never made any sense. Only seen on ranger. 

[Doggie.3184]

I played SB a lot and mainly for fractals, it was imo the best spec of gen2, but when they removed pet swapping I stopped playing it so I certainly like the Pet Swap+

Now it just needs the fart cloud to fade like they did with untamed. (or replace it with a beast tail based on pet :P)

Edited September 17, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[anduriell.6280]

4 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Now it just needs the fart cloud to fade like they did with untamed. (or replace it with a beast tail based on pet :P)

Please, that would make me very happy. Nothing we need nothing, there is already the off-center leaves floating around. Ranger does not need as many whistles as other classes. 

[Buzzbugs.1236]

I'm not liking where they are going with Druid, either. And I've mained Druid almost exclusively on my ranger since HoT, dipping into Soulbeast for a short time when PoF launched but dropping it after the pet swap nerf.

But it looks like I might have to drop Druid now for good. The changes to Druidic Clarity and Verdant Etching kills my particular play style on this elite spec.

And the Glyph of the Stars nerf is nothing short of disappointing, either. In the stream they argued it was unhealty because how strongly it denied condi but it was a 7 second channeling skill.. it took correct positioning and strategy to use it effectively, especially when Druid in particular doesn't have a lot of access to stability (so the 7 second channeling can easily be interupted). So, it seemed quite balance to me..

Always loved how Druid was a hard counter to heavy condi meta's in PvP and it's getting gutted in favor of more boons which I honestly think BOONS ARE OVER RATED !!!

Goodbye my Healer Druid

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Aeolus.3615]

@Buzzbugs.1236   The overal changes seam quite decent but i agree with you towards GoS, they overnerfed it.

THere should be no change to GoS....

 

This is Anet reasoning towards gw2:

- IF is melee....  its a blob spam game theres no need of melee combat, just spam aoe at melee range.

- If condis dont work since some class can counter it, will be nerfed, condi bunkers should have no counters unless players target lots of condi removal classes.

-If its perma boons, should have barelly no counters due how hard is to play boon-counter meta, to carry the boon poopers cause they dont know how to play w/o perma all boons, spellbreaker will continue lacking while it should be a direct counter to perma boons.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Mell.4873]

18 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Soulbeast changes push untamed out of the meta imo.

No it wont Soulbeast doesn't have the trait Fervent Force.

[Downstate.4697]

6 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

No it wont Soulbeast doesn't have the trait Fervent Force.

Yeah but soulbeast is easier to play. I should of been more clear. Will see more soilbeast than untamed in ranked. Who knows about AT

[Mell.4873]

Just now, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Yeah but soulbeast is easier to play. I should of been more clear. Will see more soilbeast than untamed in ranked. Who knows about AT

Yeah I agree there, it was already used quite a bit before.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Rare to use all 13 cleanses? Just try to roam for few mins during peak times and you will be condi bombed to kingdom come in no time. Mass condi clear is so important right now and to reduce the condi cleanse from 13 to just 3 it's a uber nerf.

Druidic clarity has supported ranger for years through all the condi spam metas, the whole point of roaming on druid was to have a chance against heavy condi roaming meta, which has been years for almost a decade now.

Honestly who gives an absolute kitten about the "group removal", you still have pets wiped during group fights and now druid is that much weaker to massive condi burst, it's not just me...other "prominent" ranger players have noticed too

The ranger changes on paper look good...but people will realize when they start playing

 

i had a feeling Paper Roll wouldn't be happy as nerfing Druidic Clarity pretty much breaks his roaming build.  It may free up other options, but as mentioned I'm not sure any of them are going to be viable with the condi spam going on.  

It is odd they didn't touch anything about the boon or condi output of Harbinger, but did these 'support' changes for Druid which are most likely getting hard countered even further now.  I mean in WvW Harbinger was already a crazy long / difficult fight, now I'm not sure it's a winnable one (solo roaming).

[Za Shaloc.3908]

5 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

I'm not liking where they are going with Druid, either. And I've mained Druid almost exclusively on my ranger since HoT, dipping into Soulbeast for a short time when PoF launched but dropping it after the pet swap nerf.

But it looks like I might have to drop Druid now for good. The changes to Druidic Clarity and Verdant Etching kills my particular play style on this elite spec.

And the Glyph of the Stars nerf is nothing short of disappointing, either. In the stream they argued it was unhealty because how strongly it denied condi but it was a 7 second channeling skill.. it took correct positioning and strategy to use it effectively, especially when Druid in particular doesn't have a lot of access to stability (so the 7 second channeling can easily be interupted). So, it seemed quite balance to me..

Always loved how Druid was a hard counter to heavy condi meta's in PvP and it's getting gutted in favor of more boons which I honestly think BOONS ARE OVER RATED !!!

Goodbye my Healer Druid

 

 

I think the removal of Glyph of the Stars' condi immunity is fair considering how they buffed it. To my understanding it will still pulse cleanse outside of CA (CMC only spoke about removing the condi immunity aspect of it), but now you don't have the chance of being interrupted so easily and can multitask while the AoE is pulsing. I really loved the unique mechanic of having the no-condi zone, but playing against people who know how to interrupt it--or especially in WvW where a random CC or dredge turret shot interrupts you as soon as you pop the skill--felt really horrible. Is it a nerf in certain contexts? Sure, it is. But as a whole I'd say its general usability and versatility went way up. Personally I'm excited in particular to be able to hand rez people WITH stab while the elite is pulsing rez juice too. With that said...they really need to give the non-CA version a water field like the tooltip has stated since the skill's inception. CMC used the skill on stream outside of CA and I saw no water field. Especially with it being a casted skill and no longer being channeled, being able to combo in the water field would bring it some great value. 

I think these changes were definitely a push in a good direction (most notably for WvW), but the CA cooldown in sPvP seriously needs to be reduced to 10s if ANet ever wants Druid to be a contender for a viable support in the gamemode. 20s CD is horribly long.

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Druid changes won't make Druid viable as a support next to Tempest or Guard variants. The nerf of DC 13 cleanse to 3 will actually hurt Druid a lot more than any of those other changes will help it.

Soulbeast will be strong with pet swap in merge.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524