Thoughts on the Balance Preview Stream?

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, itspomf.9523 said:

Fair enough, though from a PvE perspective, I'm still salty about the massive survivability nerf to Invigorating Precision.  It's basically useless now unless you have 3500+ effective Power and some 240% crit rate or more thanks to boons/utilities/food.

Oh yeah no, I agree with that. That nerf was stupid on every class, it was especially stupid on thief. Really sucks.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

22 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

1.5 to 0.69 (nice) ... they knew what they were doing

It's as if it is a joke to them with the number they put there... It might make sense for PvP/WvW, but for PvE it does not at all.

Edited September 17, 2022 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Bern.9613]

WAHAHAHAHAHA You all thought they were going to give thief some love? 🤣 You honestly thought "rework traits with 300 sec cd" meant anything good for thief? 🤣 Still like the SA changes? 🤣

[Mincsk.6028]

I hope with the success of eod they can afford to hire a balance dev that understands thief mechanics and can help this profession out. Just having 1 decent build in 1 game mode is irritating to me. (shadowmancer, spvp)

[AikijinX.6258]

It’s kind of unfortunate that out of all the classes, when it comes to gw2 Reddit, and balance updates/nerfs, the reason Thief doesn’t seem to get much attention is because of the lack of attention and representation generated by the Thief community. When it comes to ranger, engineer, warrior, and ESPECIALLY Elementalist nerfs there’s always a sea of threads essentially shining the spot light on their class making Anet aware that they need to do something. It seems as though people are much more eager to start up Reddit threads concerning those classes in comparison to Thief even if Thief had received the worst treatment of them all. Thief is among the lowest played class in the game, so it makes sense why not a lot of threads are made or why not much attention gets drawn to the class, (which would then draw the attention to Anet). But it just sucks because I do really enjoy and love the class, but we need more representation and eyes on us, because every balance we get overshadowed by mass amounts of people starting threads for their class and the Reddit gets over saturated with it, meanwhile Thief is there trying to clot the hemorrhage that consistently follows the balance patches (nerfs) silently and without uproar. Thieves could have the worst balance of them all and there will still be more representation and call outs on Reddit for a different class that received maybe a nerf to their vigor or might gain and there Anet will go completely disregarding and having a complete misperception of the true losers of their balance. 
 

sorry it was a bit of a rant. just something I noticed across multiple balance patches.

Edited September 18, 2022 by AikijinX.6258

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

43 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

It’s kind of unfortunate that out of all the classes, when it comes to gw2 Reddit, and balance updates/nerfs, the reason Thief doesn’t seem to get much attention is because of the lack of attention and representation generated by the Thief community. When it comes to ranger nerfs, engineer nerfs and ESPECIALLY Elementalist nerfs there’s always a sea of threads Essentially shining the spot light on their class making Anet aware that they need to do something. It seems as though people are much more eager to start up Reddit threads concerning those classes in comparison to Thief even if Thief had received the worst treatment of them all. Thief is among the lowest played class in the game, so it makes sense why not a lot of threads are made or why not much attention gets drawn to the class, (which would then draw the attention to Anet). But it just sucks because I do really enjoy and love the class, but we need more representation, and eyes on us because every balance we get overshadowed by mass amounts of people starting threads for their class and the Reddit gets over saturated with it, meanwhile Thief is there trying to hemorrhage their nerfs silently and without uproar. Thieves could have the worst balance of them all and there will still be more representation and call outs on Reddit for a different class that received maybe a nerf to their vigor or might gain and there Anet will go completely disregarding and having a complete misperception of the true losers of their balance. 
 

sorry it was a bit of a rant. just something I noticed across multiple balance patches.

Here is an idea...maybe its been on the drawing board...Why not have Alacrity and quickness and all boons split for each elite spec...one excels in the other than ...well, the others... Daredevil on quickness (thematic no?) Specter for alacrity and wotnot, Deadeye for the rest of the buffs ?! the beauty of this is that other non thief classes can do the same! this fits the "who can to who cant?!" DO it anet...DO IT...youd allow more flexibility for guilds that are themed, like mine for instance, as well as other weird fun comps for meme nights...what if someone only wants to play on one class, well they mastered it and its not nearly as hard to master vs going from ele to thief or thief to engi, warrior to mesmer...because you play the class you love, play a similar style but still be able to fill a viable role at...the...same...time. please...for the love of the game, for the love of the community, FREE US!

ps: Thieves rule! ❤️ u doubletap!

[Asur.9178]

The fact that there's (as of right now) 25 people confused about what that comment means says volumes about the understanding the general public has about thief...and when ANet's balance team only "balances" around FOTM and the average player's uproar or certain streamers' opinions/comments, the actual problems are never addressed; unless, those sources bring to light the issues plague-ing certain classes (in this case thief - too bad most don't play thief as a main).

I've been waiting for over 10 years for Trickery (specifically Preparedness' base initiative increase and Sleight of Hand's recharge reduction) to get addressed. OVER 10 YEARS! Instead, we've only ever seen garbage balance changes where they INCREASE initiative costs, making Trickery even more of a shoehorn traitline than it already has been since day one. Here's the biggest meme: even if they made Preparedness' initiative increase and Sleight of Hand's recharge reduction baseline, Trickery will still be mandatory because it's simply the best core traitline that offers the most diverse amount of choices across all the core traitlines; but, at least it would give the option to play some off meta diverse builds without feeling like you're heavily handicapped.

I've been waiting for over 2.5 years for Acrobatics to get addressed. OVER 2.5 YEARS! All we seem to be getting is some absurdly meager tweaks. Oh, since people seem to have missed it, the endurance gain on Hard to Catch is "a very small number" from the shadowsteps (Roy's words)...so, don't even think to get your hopes up. Not like it'd be able to replace Swindler's Equilibrium in the first place. Pain Response and Vigorous Recovery didn't even get touched...so, hurray for that - just goes to show how little understanding and attention they put towards Thief changes. I am willing to bet the Assassin's Reward bug will not be addressed either, considering how many times I've reported it for years now and it still hasn't been addressed.

I'm not going to even touch Sword for PvE...that has been a joke since the dawn of time.

The Well of Bounty change is an utter joke. They literally made it worse than it was...so, good job, I guess!? In terms of PvE, no reason to take an Alacrity Specter now over some other (better) options. Might, Fury, Vigor are surely some of the boons Thief heavily struggles to provide...yup!

They gutted (let's increase initiative costs some more...yup) power Specter (which was infinitely more fun to play) to force condi Specter into meta and then became utterly shocked about the survivability Carrion amulet provides *insert Pikachu face*. Now they plan to gut condi Specter, which makes power Specter even worse because the health to shroud ratio affects both. They used the argument that it's the same ratio as Necromancer...except they forgot that base necro health is 7567 MORE than Thief - absolute cluelessness.

They removed a bunch of trade-off, some absolutely absurd (distortion back on everything...yea, have fun with that), but they didn't even think to remove the trade-off on Daredevil. They added INSANE and OBVIOUSLY busted mechanics (pet swap on Soulbeast),  but they didn't even think to fix the traits on their newest Thief spec (Specter) - 2 traits that are never touched and 1 only ever used because the other 2 are awful choices in PvP. It didn't even occur to them to bring back Impacting Disruption to its former state (or even close to it), even though there are BETTER comparable traits like Lightning Rod, which doesn't require interrupts, can crit, AND applies weakness...but nope, Impacting Disruption is clearly too strong.

They obviously want thief to JUST be a decap bot; so, I'm not sure why they even bother adding new especs to the class - let's give PvE players some flavour so they buy our expansion...after all, that's how Deadeye came to be in the first place (a spec admittedly added to please all the players in forums asking for a sniper spec).

PS: You have no actual reason to play Deadeye post these changes because boonbeast will be back...and stronger than ever. Enjoy catching Sonic as it rotates infinitely through its skills (because it's not limited by a global cd...aka initiative), while you struggle with initiative and get farmed. If Warriors want to meme, they can also play Gun Flame and do better than Deadeye...enjoy that. Enjoy fighting infinite block/evade/invulnerable spamming mesmers and more. Have fun with all those changes.

I am already prepared to make my exit post the November changes (because I do not see Trickery and Acrobatics in all gamemodes, and Sword in PvE being addressed at the rate they are going), after supporting the game for over 10 years and the franchise over 17 years.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Asur.9178
Spelling/grammar/formatting

[Valisha.8650]

3 hours ago, Asur.9178 said:

The fact that there's (as of right now) 25 people confused about what that comment means says volumes about the understanding the general public has about thief...and when ANet's balance team only "balances" around FOTM and the average player's uproar or certain streamers' opinions/comments, the actual problems are never addressed; unless, those sources bring to light the issues plague-ing certain classes (in this case thief - too bad most don't play thief as a main).

I've been waiting for over 10 years for Trickery (specifically Preparedness' base initiative increase and Sleight of Hand's recharge reduction) to get addressed. OVER 10 YEARS! Instead, we've only ever seen garbage balance changes where they INCREASE initiative costs, making Trickery even more of a shoehorn traitline than it already has been since day one. Here's the biggest meme: even if they made Preparedness' initiative increase and Sleight of Hand's recharge reduction baseline, Trickery will still be mandatory because it's simply the best core traitline that offers the most diverse amount of choices across all the core traitlines; but, at least it would give the option to play some off meta diverse builds without feeling like you're heavily handicapped.

I've been waiting for over 2.5 years for Acrobatics to get addressed. OVER 2.5 YEARS! All we seem to be getting is some absurdly meager tweaks. Oh, since people seem to have missed it, the endurance gain on Hard to Catch is "a very small number" from the shadowsteps (Roy's words)...so, don't even think to get your hopes up. Not like it'd be able to replace Swindler's Equilibrium in the first place. Pain Response and Vigorous Recovery didn't even get touched...so, hurray for that - just goes to show how little understanding and attention they put towards Thief changes. I am willing to bet the Assassin's Reward bug will not be addressed either, considering how many times I've reported it for years now and it still hasn't been addressed.

I'm not going to even touch Sword for PvE...that has been a joke since the dawn of time.

The Well of Bounty change is an utter joke. They literally made it worse than it was...so, good job, I guess!? In terms of PvE, no reason to take an Alacrity Specter now over some other (better) options. Might, Fury, Vigor are surely some of the boons Thief heavily struggles to provide...yup!

They gutted (let's increase initiative costs some more...yup) power Specter (which was infinitely more fun to play) to force condi Specter into meta and then became utterly shocked about the survivability Carrion amulet provides *insert Pikachu face*. Now they plan to gut condi Specter, which makes power Specter even worse because the health to shroud ratio affects both. They used the argument that it's the same ratio as Necromancer...except they forgot that base necro health is 7567 MORE than Thief - absolute cluelessness.

They removed a bunch of trade-off, some absolutely absurd (distortion back on everything...yea, have fun with that), but they didn't even think to remove the trade-off on Daredevil. They added INSANE and OBVIOUSLY busted mechanics (pet swap on Soulbeast),  but they didn't even think to fix the traits on their newest Thief spec (Specter) - 2 traits that are never touched and 1 only ever used because the other 2 are awful choices in PvP. It didn't even occur to them to bring back Impacting Disruption to its former state (or even close to it), even though there are BETTER comparable traits like Lightning Rod, which doesn't require interrupts, can crit, AND applies weakness...but nope, Impacting Disruption is clearly too strong.

They obviously want thief to JUST be a decap bot; so, I'm not sure why they even bother adding new especs to the class - let's give PvE players some flavour so they buy our expansion...after all, that's how Deadeye came to be in the first place (a spec admittedly added to please all the players in forums asking for a sniper spec).

PS: You have no actual reason to play Deadeye post these changes because boonbeast will be back...and stronger than ever. Enjoy catching Sonic as it rotates infinitely through its skills (because it's not limited by a global cd...aka initiative), while you struggle with initiative and get farmed. If Warriors want to meme, they can also play Gun Flame and do better than Deadeye...enjoy that. Enjoy fighting infinite block/evade/invulnerable spamming mesmers and more. Have fun with all those changes.

I am already prepared to make my exit post the November changes (because I do not see Trickery and Acrobatics in all gamemodes, and Sword in PvE being addressed at the rate they are going), after supporting the game for over 10 years and the franchise over 17 years.

Agreed 100%.

All those balance devs do is ruin everything.

[Doggie.3184]

19 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

It’s kind of unfortunate that out of all the classes, when it comes to gw2 Reddit, and balance updates/nerfs, the reason Thief doesn’t seem to get much attention is because of the lack of attention and representation generated by the Thief community. When it comes to ranger nerfs, engineer nerfs and ESPECIALLY Elementalist nerfs there’s always a sea of threads essentially shining the spot light on their class making Anet aware that they need to do something. It seems as though people are much more eager to start up Reddit threads concerning those classes in comparison to Thief even if Thief had received the worst treatment of them all. Thief is among the lowest played class in the game, so it makes sense why not a lot of threads are made or why not much attention gets drawn to the class, (which would then draw the attention to Anet). But it just sucks because I do really enjoy and love the class, but we need more representation and eyes on us, because every balance we get overshadowed by mass amounts of people starting threads for their class and the Reddit gets over saturated with it, meanwhile Thief is there trying to hemorrhage their nerfs silently and without uproar. Thieves could have the worst balance of them all and there will still be more representation and call outs on Reddit for a different class that received maybe a nerf to their vigor or might gain and there Anet will go completely disregarding and having a complete misperception of the true losers of their balance. 
 

sorry it was a bit of a rant. just something I noticed across multiple balance patches.

Heh, I was sitting in a very large WvW discord the other day just listening quietly. Everyone started talking about all the balance patch changes for every class but one was literally never brought up or even acknowledged as something that existed which is this one. Just made me feel sad. It's such a dead class among the WvW community and anytime I would play it with others in a large alliance I'm generally the only one playing it, sometimes one other.

[AikijinX.6258]

4 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Heh, I was sitting in a very large WvW discord the other day just listening quietly. Everyone started talking about all the balance patch changes for every class but one was literally never brought up or even acknowledged as something that existed which is this one. Just made me feel sad. It's such a dead class among the WvW community and anytime I would play it with others in a large alliance I'm generally the only one playing it, sometimes one other.

This is unfortunately a sad reality we play in now. I also know a ton of Thief mains that have even changed their mains to different classes. Unfortunately Thief, as high skill cap as it is, the level of difficulty and the amount of work you have to put in to confirm kills safely and effectively doesn’t promote for very fun time or gameplay for most of the Gw2 community. Due to the level of difficulty playing this class we just don’t have the  audience and definitely don’t have enough of an audience that cares about what happens to us. From the outside looking in, since we have access to stealth, all the nerfs in the world that get thrown to this class is justifiable due to our innate stealth access ability. It’s very unfortunate, but not only are anet dev’s killing this class with these low blow ‘balances’.. due to the lack of audience, representation and just in general: care, this class’s murder gets multiplied because of this.

EDIT: And I truly don’t want people to think this is just another thief main upset and complaining. Because as I and many others do, we adapt. But it’s just getting exhausting. 10 years and we still haven’t scratched the surface of anywhere near a perfectly polished Thief. 
 

And i understand how terrifying it is on their end to balance a class that stealths. It’s a nightmare,  but there’s been 10 years of brainstorming and thinking to have been done. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by AikijinX.6258

[UNOwen.7132]

2 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Heh, I was sitting in a very large WvW discord the other day just listening quietly. Everyone started talking about all the balance patch changes for every class but one was literally never brought up or even acknowledged as something that existed which is this one. Just made me feel sad. It's such a dead class among the WvW community and anytime I would play it with others in a large alliance I'm generally the only one playing it, sometimes one other.

WvW thief sadly pays for the sins of PvP thief. Sucks for those who want to play thief in WvW, but oh well. 

[AikijinX.6258]

1 hour ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

WvW thief sadly pays for the sins of PvP thief. Sucks for those who want to play thief in WvW, but oh well. 

This is very true. WvW thief pays for the sins of PvP thief. It’s not really the fault of actual PvP players. It’s just that Anet doesn’t take into account WvW and PvP are vastly different. And although it’s good that there’s someone they atleast listen to for high tier perspective and opinion, and opinion that I myself respect as well, sinderer’s word is not bond and it seems like his opinion is pretty much a majority of what they and mightyteapot listen to. (This isn’t to bash them AT ALL. I just think they need to have more perspective than just PvP Thief), which eventually poses a detriment and bleeds into WvW and PvE universal ‘balances’.

Edited September 19, 2022 by AikijinX.6258

[UNOwen.7132]

7 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

This is very true. WvW thief pays for the sins of PvP thief. It’s not really the fault of actual PvP players. It’s just that Anet doesn’t take into account WvW and PvP are vastly different. And although it’s good that there’s someone they atleast listen to for high tier perspective and opinion, and opinion that I myself respect as well, sinderer’s word is not bond and it seems like his opinion is pretty much a majority of what they and mightyteapot listen to. (This isn’t to bash him AT ALL. I just think they need to have more perspective than just PvP Thief.), which eventually poses a detriment to WvW and PvE. 

What confuses me is that they *do* have the means to prevent this issue. Scrapper has some WvW only changes for example. They just seem to not care much about thief in WvW. Which isnt too surprising, but still.

[Myror.7521]

@Unowaselik.2508 thief and bad in wvw good joke. To be fair it lacks in teamfights maybe but in Roaming it is just still one of the best classes besides pew spamy kitten xd.

[Doggie.3184]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Unowaselik.2508 thief and bad in wvw good joke. To be fair it lacks in teamfights maybe but in Roaming it is just still one of the best classes besides pew spamy kitten xd.

Roaming shouldn't be the entire focus of a class and Thief roaming is still just a side effect of it's Spvp design and not made with WvW or PvE in mind~ This is an MMO; they shouldn't make anti-social classes. Making us a roaming only class makes us also suck in PvE.

1v1 in PvE is awful and most of our weapons aren't even practical mechanics for PvE even against bosses cuz of low damage (poor sword since beta) and/or working against the E in PvE by moving us away from the fight and allies with forced one directional movement spam. I'd rather they put most of our mobility onto new F skills like Guardian or improved our utilities for it instead of putting it all on our spam DPS skills.

Shortbow 5 as an F skill with a cooldown fixes it's problem being an unbalanceable "global cooldown" and a new skill could take it's place for something support oriented like a new combo field we dont have access to currently. Death Blossom coulda been like the Staff 2 change (though the tracking bugs still need fixed). P/D and Sc/P 3 would not be super annoying if the retreat was on an F skill instead to use when we actually want to. Most of our weapons are also too easily bodyblocked by groups of enemies with pistol/rifle/scepter/dagger AA (and even blocked by allies with scepter/dagger 3). 

Too much of this class is designed entirely around Spvp. Even our "HEALING" spec was entirely focused on Spvp gameplay, being single target and shadowstep oriented and all. That's not practical for PvE and WvW.

[UNOwen.7132]

6 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Unowaselik.2508 thief and bad in wvw good joke. To be fair it lacks in teamfights maybe but in Roaming it is just still one of the best classes besides pew spamy kitten xd.

Its not though. Thief in roaming is a very annoying class, but its not a good one. Its just a class that tries to hunt undergeared and significantly worse players, but runs away when theyre evenly matched.

[Jumpel.3972]

2 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Even our "HEALING" spec was entirely focused on Spvp gameplay, being single target and shadowstep oriented and all. That's not practical for PvE and WvW.

The healing build is actualy quite good in term of healing output for PVE group content but lack of boons to compete with other healer. (until it's shutdown with the shroud nerf)

[nopoet.2960]

I think the shroud nerf was coming no matter what.  I only take issue with how inelegant their solution was.  One thing that makes the shadow shroud so powerful is that is doesn't naturally deteriorate quickly.  I would have played with that number before simply taking an axe to size of the health pool.   Such a drastic change make me wonder how they came up with those numbers in the first place.

Edited September 19, 2022 by nopoet.2960
words

[Delcran.5734]

A shroud nerf seems fair, but the over 50% nerf does seem a bit heavy handed in PvE specifically.  I would love for this to be a little bit lower in PvE to continue to offer a unique spin on the alacrity spec for specter.   I'm thrilled we're going to get stability on demand with the initial cast of Well of Bounty, but it's not really on demand if we need to use the well on cooldown to keep alacrity up.  

Specter also suffers from needing to use venoms and a major lack of cleave damage.  If this nerf to shroud based healing allows us some reprieve on the cleave front, that would be terrific.  Perhaps we could have piercing on Haunt Shot, a less clunky Measured Shot/Endless Night, or a way for Rot Wallow Venom to have a bigger place in our kit.  I think we would be more inclined to use things like Dawn's Repose in addition to Consuming Shadows based healing/barrier if Rot Wallow Venom provided more torment.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Delcran.5734

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

I sat down and thought about the changes for a while. I am only really disappointed by the ratio change for shroud. I haven't really used the acrobatics trait line that much before though!

Hard to Catch: This trait has been reworked. It now grants endurance when shadowstepping.

At first I was disappointed because of the specter nerfs so I skipped over this, but this actually will be quite cool. It might be seen as problematic by some people, but we will have to see. I think it is cool to have another reactive skill. Here's a list of thief shadowsteps. from the wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep_(mechanic)

1. Weapon skills that shadowstep
Shadow Shot — Dagger
Infiltrator's Return — Sword
Infiltrator's Strike — Sword
Infiltrator's Arrow — Short bow
Ink Shot — Harpoon gun
Smoke Trail — Harpoon gun

2. Utility skills that shadowstep
Shadow Return — Deception
Shadowstep — Deception
Infiltrator's Signet — Signet

3. Profession mechanic skills that shadowstep
Steal

This list is incomplete now that I look at it. For instance what about specter wells or pistol dagger skill 3 Shadow Strike? "Dual Wield. Stab your foe, then shadowstep away and shoot them. Unlock Repeater for a short time."
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Strike

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Measured_Shot

Wells are incomplete o_o? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well I wonder if it has anything to do with the wiki update anyhow.

Instant Reflexes: This trait no longer grants evasion when dropping below 50% health. Instead, it grants evasion after using an elite skill.

This skill will only be useful for one or two elite skills. If you take Basilisk Venom or Thieves Guild forget it. Note is it required all elite skills to have synergy with all traits like this though?

Meld with Shadows: Reduced superspeed duration from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only.

This is just a balance thing. It sucks, but just a timing change.

Specter: Reduced Shadow Shroud health scaling from 1.5 to 0.69.

This change makes sense for PvP/WvW only. It is much to big of a nerf for PvE and doesn't make as much sense. I am not a fan of this. Also WHY the 69? sigh....

Specter: Well of Bounty

These changes make sense for PvP/WvW. I am mainly going to speak towards the boon application for PvE (the notes do not say it is PvP/WvW only). While it sucks to lose some boons and potential for overflow in a well the randomness isn't great. I really like the fact that pulse 1 will now provide stability. This would be great for high end PvE content. Stability for high end content like Fractal CMs etc is very important. If I am not going specter (DPS or Alac) I am going with a (QB or HB). Being able to offload some reliable stability to specter will feel great.

I am a little disappointed things like the bugged heal on initiative spent wasn't addressed or pain response staying a passive trait instead of responsive. I think every skill should be looked at in that manner.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

Additional thought to throw out there (I haven't given this one much thought so it could be a bad idea but...). What if pain response was changed to be sort of like skill 2 on sword? Clear a condi on a successful evade. Then it would synergize with the new HtC and be less passive?

Edited September 19, 2022 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Myror.7521]

@Doggie.3184 @UNOwen.7132 I mean i see your points here. But still if you want to see more dmg on thief we eather need less Defensive tools like stealth/blind/dodges or less mobility on it (not all since that would kill the entire class). The reason is clear. A class that is the best in mobility but also could clap every 1v1 cause if that many defensive  Tools plus good dmg would be too broken. That is also the reason why i like sword/dagger to be buffed again over d/p. Sword/ dagger would have good dmg with a good defensive Tool (dodge) and decent Mobility. How ever that is also why i hate SA d/p drd. It would have good mobility/ decent defensive Tools (dodges/stealth/blind) and good dmg at the same time. (All this at one would made it an unkillable Roaming spec that could also kill ya ezy). 

[UNOwen.7132]

4 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Doggie.3184 @UNOwen.7132 I mean i see your points here. But still if you want to see more dmg on thief we eather need less Defensive tools like stealth/blind/dodges or less mobility on it (not all since that would kill the entire class). The reason is clear. A class that is the best in mobility but also could clap every 1v1 cause if that many defensive  Tools plus good dmg would be too broken. That is also the reason why i like sword/dagger to be buffed again over d/p. Sword/ dagger would have good dmg with a good defensive Tool (dodge) and decent Mobility. How ever that is also why i hate SA d/p drd. It would have good mobility/ decent defensive Tools (dodges/stealth/blind) and good dmg at the same time. (All this at one would made it an unkillable Roaming spec that could also kill ya ezy). 

In WvW you dont really need any of them, but I'd cut some of the mobility. Thief already has very poor defenses, thats its biggest weakness. Its good at running away, but its bad at staying alive in a fight. 

[Bern.9613]

14 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

In WvW you dont really need any of them, but I'd cut some of the mobility. Thief already has very poor defenses, thats its biggest weakness. Its good at running away, but its bad at staying alive in a fight. 

The only class a thief can out run now is necro. I never liked nor wanted super speed and now they even knocked that down. I suppose they'll find a way to take speed runes away from thief, just like they did with trapper runes.

[Bern.9613]

Some of the "thoughts" and comments in this thread are absolutely hilarious. When I started playing GW2 10 yrs ago, thief was advertised as the "scourge of the battlefield". Now we're just a joke, an easy kill. Why does thief have to give up stealth, mobility, power? Because anet said, Shadow Arts has long been a source of frustrating gameplay, particularly in competitive PvP and WvW. This is partially due to the stealth generated by Concealing Restoration, Meld with Shadows, and Hidden Thief, which compounded with other Thief stealth sources to push stealth access to exceptional levels? And now this is their idea of "reworking skills with 300 sec cd";

              Hard to Catch: This trait has been reworked. It now grants endurance when shadowstepping.

               Instant Reflexes: This trait no longer grants evasion when dropping below 50% health. Instead, it                                                                               grants evasion after using an elite skill.

               Meld with Shadows: Reduced superspeed duration from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only.

 

When GW2 was released, every MMO had a thief/assassin/rogue/stealth class so they jumped on that band wagon. It's painfully obvious to us now that anet has no intention of allowing thief to be a useful stealth class, hell, a useful class, full stop. I, like so many other old school thief mains, have stopped playing and stopped recommending GW2. One thing the player base has to realize is once they're done gutting and salting the wounds of their so called "balances" of thief, they're going to turn to another class and start Michael Myers'ing it. Every game has it's sycophants that revel in every misstep made by the devs and, believe me, this game has it's fair share, which is why this game is going to be circling the drain for years to come and not die. Question is, how much longer are you going to endure the abuse?

 

Sidebar: Did you know that there is a point system for the forums? Like a driver's license, once you've maxed out, you'll be perma banned from forums. I doubt there's a way to regen the points. I doubt I care.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Bern.9613