Is warrior truly the worst class in the game?

[eXruina.4956]

some people can get by with warrior in a bad state, specially people who don't really play the class and shelve it as fast as they pick it up.

 

in pve it can get away with being worse than everything else as long as it is competent enough to clear.

 

but in competitive modes like pvp and wvw where you have to fight against other classes, this is not the case.

 

there are many caduals out there, who play warrior casually or on the side and are oblivious to the gap in balance, that is all well and good.

 

but i find it weird that people who don't really give an f* about warrior's gamestate, or for that matter hardly ever play warrior to begin with, incessantly have to chime in on warrior balance, specially when they lack history, knowledge and experience with it. because honestly they don't give an f* if warrior is bad. in fact these people probably prefer warrior remains bad.

[prototypedragon.1406]

@eXruina.4956 it may mostly be do to them getting destroyed by a warrior regardless of the nerfs we had dealt with since the dreaded 2020 patch. The 15 damage smackaroons of destruction.

https://youtu.be/qJy8NFoCfI8

Edited November 2, 2022 by prototypedragon.1406

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

@eXruina.4956 it may mostly be do to them getting destroyed by a warrior regardless of the nerfs we had dealt with since the dreaded 2020 patch. The 15 damage smackaroons of destruction.

https://youtu.be/qJy8NFoCfI8

I ran something close to that post Feb2020. Sentinels Arms/Str/Disc. Builds like that handle thieves that don't know how to run very well.

[Leo G.4501]

10 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

 

debate gets tiring and pointless when people don't defer to reality and current state.

 

 

Relax, I'm not trying to debate anything (not at this point, especially). If you find it's a waste of your time to respond to posts, you too can indefinitely defer responding to said posts.

[Obtena.7952]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:18 AM, Hashberry.4510 said:

This really should be enough for anyone. This is a game.

Especially considering most of the content is easy enough to play and win with any class in the game.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Builds like that handle thieves that don't know how to run very well.

A thief that don't know how to run? That's a thief that need the basics hammered into it!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

A thief that don't know how to run? That's a thief that need the basics hammered into it!

When you run, as a warrior, a Soldier or Sentinel build a good thief realizes quickly that they are in for a long fight and stealth+shadow step away as it is not worth the time investment.

A bad thief sees the low damage non crits, does not realize what the build is, and thinks they have an easy kill, not realizing the entire fight is just one long bait on the warrior's part. They stop dodging, because why dodge such low damage that you can easily heal up right? Then the 8k Eviscerate lands and the thief drops into downstate. 
 

[Dadnir.5038]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

When you run, as a warrior, a Soldier or Sentinel build a good thief realizes quickly that they are in for a long fight and stealth+shadow step away as it is not worth the time investment.

A bad thief sees the low damage non crits, does not realize what the build is, and thinks they have an easy kill, not realizing the entire fight is just one long bait on the warrior's part. They stop dodging, because why dodge such low damage that you can easily heal up right? Then the 8k Eviscerate lands and the thief drops into downstate.

A thief should never take on a turtle unless he is good at hit and run. Underestimating incoming damage is the worst mistake any player can do...

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

 

No, the statement does hold. Players, in fact, do overstate deficiencies in their chosen profession which is further exacerbated when the vocal minority of each of these groups starts shouting at each other to out-victimhood their cases.

 

I can link you to plenty of evidence.

There's a degree of truth to this. It usually comes about in part because of the negative bias (negative experiences stick in memory more than neutral or positive ones), and people who don't play a profession generally experiencing the strengths of the profession (by being on the receiving end in competitive or seeing their performance in cooperative), but often don't recognise the weaknesses and attribute any victories they have to their own skill rather than unknowingly benefiting from a weakness.

But... I play everything. Not equally (who does?), but I've been going for the champion title with every profession and part of how I keep PvE fresh is playing through with different professions and builds. Warrior is probably among my least played professions, but I think I have an understanding of its strengths and weaknesses.

I'm fairly confident in saying that warrior had been near the bottom for a long time. I predicted that the 2020 patch would disproportionately impact warriors in competitive, and they're only now starting to get compensation for it. They've been carried in endgame PvE by banners, and that high bladesworn DPS is not always easy to pull off. In PvP, meanwhile, there are still a number of ways they can be rendered nearly helpless. I think there are possibly professions that are worse off than warrior in specific modes (thief, for instance, has typically struggled with anything that isn't roaming or Qadim - specter helped in that respect but still has issues, especiallywith the shroud nerf), but taken across all modes, I think warrior has possibly been in the worst shape overall for the past few years.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

58 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

A thief should never take on a turtle unless he is good at hit and run. Underestimating incoming damage is the worst mistake any player can do...

I know. I'm more than happy to teach them that lesson though.

[eXruina.4956]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Especially considering most of the content is easy enough to play and win with any class in the game.

i agree, in pve, should be helpin' each other vanquishing them baddie for more shiny. 😎

 

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I know. I'm more than happy to teach them that lesson though.

and they say warriors are masochists. someone's got some leather straps under that full plate. 🤣

 

4 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

 

Relax, I'm not trying to debate anything (not at this point, especially). If you find it's a waste of your time to respond to posts, you too can indefinitely defer responding to said posts.

yeah, true, sorry its been an annoyance lately, and i can get very.. passionate. 💪🔥

Edited November 2, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[DaniTheHero.6318]

On 10/30/2022 at 1:46 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

That depends entirely on the nature of the changes., and what "worst" means. There's all kinds of combinations where the answer to that would be "yes", and a bunch of configurations where it would be unacceptable. A good chunk of the warrior playerbase has voiced sentiment that they don't mind trying harder or playing riskier than other classes, as long as that risk is rewarded in some way. Playing a class that is hard, because it is hard, because y̸̤̋ó̷̝ü̸̦ ̶̾͜ḷ̵͆i̴͕͗k̸͌͜e̸̡̅ ̶̺̊p̷̱̊a̵͎̍i̵̧͗n̴͙͋  is also a valid sentiment, but not one that should dictate the balance of a class in an MMO. 

You're still putting out those weird vibes.

Nobody in this thread is pursuing superiority. Look at them. Most of the comments have some variant of "warrior is punishing and restrictive for no good reason."

It's really strange and oppressive when people try to make the assertion that warrior could stand to be less punishing and get comments like "just shut up and stop worrying about numbers", or the above, when their assertion is something adjacent to "warrior can do only one thing, but it can't do that thing well.". Are you concerned that the moment you remove one of warrior's handicaps they will proceed to eat the rest of the playerbase alive like an accidentally released pack of bears?

 

Equality and balance are not the same thing. 

 

 

These questions are not only impossible to prove, but irrelevant. It's equally as likely that people share the same sentiment as OP, but don't post anything on the forums. Why do you assume because they aren't here talking about it, that they're satisfied? I don't leave a 1 star review every time I have bad service, sometimes I just stop using the product and do something else. 

 

We have Op's assertion of warrior being bad at content roles, and there's data to corroborate that assertion of warrior having a drop off in popularity over time.

Instead of trying to judge whether or not the opinion is worthy based on how many people are silently playing warrior, we can focus on giving the class some more reward for all the risk. Most of the warriors that took the time to comment here agree with him.  

 

 

Thank you.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:48 AM, prototypedragon.1406 said:

@eXruina.4956 it may mostly be do to them getting destroyed by a warrior regardless of the nerfs we had dealt with since the dreaded 2020 patch. The 15 damage smackaroons of destruction.

https://youtu.be/qJy8NFoCfI8

I remember that video. It's peak kittenpost.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

In short, Yes; yes it is.

Warrior is the worse class of the entire game.

 

The only reason I still have one is simple.

I Remade all my 10 original characters from GW1 in GW2.

So to keep its herritage, it has to be a warrior.

Period!

 

Plus, I like Warrior's Long Bow.

I really like it.

It needs tweaks. 

It could do with having a faster fire rate, and do a bit more damage.

Other than that is the best weapon warrior has after double axe, which have been nerfed yet again.

 

Since my warrior only uses blades though and I'm stubborn as frigging everything.

I use a sword and shield.

Ya know? RP purposes.

I don't care.

It's my warrior. 

 

So, I use

 

● sword but it's useless.

● Shield even more useless.

● GS is hard to use.

● Maces are both useless and boring.

● Same as hammer.

Even if the heavy hat has made a video trying to make it look fun, in reality isn't. 

But hey, each to their own. You do you.

● Warrior Torch is the most useless weapon ever conceived in any videogame, ever.

● Daggers. Useless. Even though they have cool animations. Just not enough damage, and warrior feels heavy and clunky using them.

● Gunsabre. Has a lot of potential, but right now is just a gimmick. 

Those trigger special skills need a total conversation. 

This isn't it. 

They need to be activated using a bar exactly the same as fishing that moves from side to side, if you time it right when in the centre; it will trigger the Dragon moves, inflicting great damage with critical hits.

As it is right now... what is that, by the way?

 

Anyways.

This short answer is turning into an essay, so I'll finish here.

 

Just hope warriors get improvements. 

It needs major reworks. From core to BS.

[felix.2386]

they need to give unique gameplay at least for warrior like seriously

why make OH dagger/pistol 85% the same as OH axe.

it's so crazy.

dagger could have some ammo mobility skill that dashes

pistol could increase 4 range, and make push back for 5 farther so we can get range to set up for DT.

[Zekent.3652]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:47 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

 

A bad thief sees the low damage non crits, does not realize what the build is, and thinks they have an easy kill
 

Jokes aside, this is why some persons tends to focus warrior, because the class is not that oppressive, it's not a catalyst and their many effects around, it's not a harbinger and their constant condi bomb and boon corrupt, etc.

but then BAM YOU SLAP THEM WITH A 10K HAMMER 2 AND REMIND THEM THE RESPECT THAT THIS CLASS DESERVES
 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Mungrul.9358]

I'm beginning to think that dropping the GW1 concept of profession-specific "Primary Attributes" was a really bad thing.

Instead, boons have largely replaced them, resulting in increasing homogeneity.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a return to the bad old days of needing specific professions to even start certain content (although one could argue that's the state of high-end PvE at the moment anyway).

 

But I recognise that giving every profession access to everything that used to be profession-specific makes it increasingly hard to buff specific professions without affecting others.

 

To me, an old GW1 player, it feels wrong to see Alacrity no longer being a purely Mesmer mechanic (Fast Casting from GW1 being the closest analogue), and indeed, seeing a lot of other professions do it better.

Similarly, even though it wasn't a Warrior's primary attribute, I was used to seeing warriors have far more access to IAS (Increased Attack Speed=Quickness) than other professions.

And even Warrior's actual primary attribute, Strength, provided something that on paper, came off as quite dry, but in practice, made people fear them in melee. An inherent ability to ignore a percentage of a target's armour was fantastic. And no other profession had this.

 

I think the problems we're seeing now are because instead of each profession having one really strong, unique mechanic that no other profession had (as per GW1), they were instead given lots of lesser unique mechanics.

And in eliminating them and replacing them with boons (which are increasingly accessible to all professions), the focus naturally falls on those professions that provide the easiest and best implementation of said boons.

 

But then again, a move to inflexible gear rather than build controlling stats hamstrung balance from the very start anyway.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Jokes aside, this is why some persons tends to focus warrior, because the class is not that oppressive, it's not a catalyst and their many effects around, it's not a harbinger and their constant condi bomb and boon corrupt, etc.

but then BAM YOU SLAP THEM WITH A 10K HAMMER 2 AND REMIND THEM THE RESPECT THAT THIS CLASS DESERVES
 

 

Yeah. Anet needs to remember that and stop nerfing our hard hitting highly telegraphed attacks. We have nothing truly special otherwise.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah. Anet needs to remember that and stop nerfing our hard hitting highly telegraphed attacks. We have nothing truly special otherwise.

On that note, gotta ask you something: I was doing a Dragonstorm yesterday and i was using a celestial SpB build for both solo and entry group content, it's a Sword/Dagger build.

I had 25 stacks of might and i was doing between 3k to 5k autoattacks with sword, besides the bleed stacks. Isn't that a kinda ok number for a relatively mediocre weapon? Maybe we're missing something here? ( besides hamstring being weak as a finisher ) Savage Leap crit for like 8/9k and FT was getting 13/15k crits.

Now, Sword does feel weak, for several reasons, the autos aren't satisfying, the skills are weird and you don't have much of a flow with it, it doesn't synergize with anything besides torch or maybe axe in the offhand for the quickness, and the build is wonky. But still, i felt like i was doing more damage than i had the right to do. What do you think?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

On that note, gotta ask you something: I was doing a Dragonstorm yesterday and i was using a celestial SpB build for both solo and entry group content, it's a Sword/Dagger build.

I had 25 stacks of might and i was doing between 3k to 5k autoattacks with sword, besides the bleed stacks. Isn't that a kinda ok number for a relatively mediocre weapon? Maybe we're missing something here? ( besides hamstring being weak as a finisher ) Savage Leap crit for like 8/9k and FT was getting 13/15k crits.

Now, Sword does feel weak, for several reasons, the autos aren't satisfying, the skills are weird and you don't have much of a flow with it, it doesn't synergize with anything besides torch or maybe axe in the offhand for the quickness, and the build is wonky. But still, i felt like i was doing more damage than i had the right to do. What do you think?

PvE versus WvW/PvP issue. PvE everything pretty much works. That as you probably had 5 stacks of AI along with those 25 might. That is still a lot of power and Ferocity, even on cele and can easily crit something with 2681 Defense for over 21k in PvE. FT is mostly a power move and has an obvious windup. 

If you took that build into WvW you wouldn't be hitting for nearly as much.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

PvE versus WvW/PvP issue. PvE everything pretty much works. That as you probably had 5 stacks of AI along with those 25 might. That is still a lot of power and Ferocity, even on cele and can easily crit something with 2681 Defense for over 21k in PvE. FT is mostly a power move and has an obvious windup. 

If you took that build into WvW you wouldn't be hitting for nearly as much.

No, no, absolutely. I just found it weird to have that ammount of damage out of a wonky build. It wasn't performing as badly as i thought it would ( that being said, the bleed upkeep is awful, i couldn't break 15 stacks easily and i used a bleed duration sigil and a bleed on crit sigil ).

FT is a really bad move for condition in it's normal state. Sword needs more conditions besides bleed and immobilize, and it could also use a complete revamp in the direction of being full-condi, while Mace would be the hybrid condi-power weapon.

Hamstring is one of the worst finishers i've seen in a weapon.

To be fair, there's a SpB roaming build i saw with power Sword/Dagger-GS where you bullrush into dagger 4+Sword 3 for maximum burst. Savage Leap's damage isn't as bad either ( altho it's nothing to write home about ).

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Here's an honest and clear oppinion on warrior.

 

1. It needs a major revamp. 

 

Forget the traditional all broad no brains class that gets a red version of hulk and just smash smash.

This has to change now.

This is where it went wrong to start with and now it's stuck in a non evolutionary state.

 

You have to drag warrior out of that box and give it some god darn magic already.

 

This primitive gorilla like theme has to evolve into the future.

 

Magics for warrior could include just the one element, such as fire.

Or could be spiritual magics.

Imbue weapons with energy or souls.

Those spirit imbued weapons could do all sorts, from stealing enemy health and endurance, to becoming stronger with every kill.

On full bar could give you special abilities. 

 

Shouts need to start feeling like it makes an impact on all party members around, by giving all superspeed, stability, aegis, etc, in order to be useful in WvW, Raids, etc...

Meaning warriors use tactics, so make it useful... and warriors should ALWAYS be the front man/woman/etc

 

2. All weapons needs major reworks.

If that means even sacrificing sime weapons by removing them completely or change them.

I'm not saying to give warriors a focus and a wand.

But what's wrong with a staff that works like a stave such as DD and Core Rev?

Stick it a blade on the tip and class it as slashing damage and voila! 

You have a brand new avenue to explore on warriors. 

 

How about reworking weapons such as shield, that could simply have a shield bash that knocks back foes?

 

Sword skills feel stiff and clunky.

GS is even worse compared to the mobility and overall feel of Guardian's GS.

 

3. Overall theme

As I initially said.

Let go of the mindless hit as hard as you can class and actualy make them tactical, strategic, and a proper frontline tank.

 

Warhorn is underused as far as I can tell.

So weapons such as these should be improved and used for party wide boons.

 

Warriors should also provide an easy retreat for party members if the battle requires so.

Again, superspeed and a short unvunerable boon instead of being ran over by an enemy zerg.

 

There's no shame in running sometimes in wvw.

Better than being ravaged on by an angry stampede of enemies.

 

Last resort.

I know a lot of people aren't fans of minions and pets, but warriors could have some sort of summons, such as fiendish like creatures that go from swordsman/militia to a crossbow ranged malice legions of sorts.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Technically, warrior does have magic, every profession in Tyria does. Ours is more overt in Shouts, Banners, Signets, and Rampage for Core. Even Warhorn really is a magical effect. Tyrians use ley magic to either augment their abilities, or to produce magical effects.

It's kind of like how Nen works in Hunter X Hunter except that you don't have an intrinsic type, you learn one thing or another. Warrior is essentially the 'Enhancer' from HxH.

[Mungrul.9358]

23 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

On that note, gotta ask you something: I was doing a Dragonstorm yesterday and i was using a celestial SpB build for both solo and entry group content, it's a Sword/Dagger build.

I had 25 stacks of might and i was doing between 3k to 5k autoattacks with sword, besides the bleed stacks. Isn't that a kinda ok number for a relatively mediocre weapon? Maybe we're missing something here? ( besides hamstring being weak as a finisher ) Savage Leap crit for like 8/9k and FT was getting 13/15k crits.

Now, Sword does feel weak, for several reasons, the autos aren't satisfying, the skills are weird and you don't have much of a flow with it, it doesn't synergize with anything besides torch or maybe axe in the offhand for the quickness, and the build is wonky. But still, i felt like i was doing more damage than i had the right to do. What do you think?

Was it the private or public version?

Either way, you have to remember that if there's even a few good support players playing at the same time as you, you're going to get huge benefits from the buffs they're pumping out.

I've got several builds that are difficult to play solo, but blossom in group environments, purely because I don't have to worry about boon generation any more.

In OW PvE, Warrior can all of a sudden feel very effective when the zerg hits, and in a wipe situation, you'll often be the last left alive.

So many other professions are spewing out stab, protection, aegis and regen, you no longer have to play at your limit just simply trying to stay alive.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Mungrul.9358
Mixing up me Rs.

[Jzaku.9765]

23 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

On that note, gotta ask you something: I was doing a Dragonstorm yesterday and i was using a celestial SpB build for both solo and entry group content, it's a Sword/Dagger build.

I had 25 stacks of might and i was doing between 3k to 5k autoattacks with sword, besides the bleed stacks. Isn't that a kinda ok number for a relatively mediocre weapon? Maybe we're missing something here? ( besides hamstring being weak as a finisher ) Savage Leap crit for like 8/9k and FT was getting 13/15k crits.

Now, Sword does feel weak, for several reasons, the autos aren't satisfying, the skills are weird and you don't have much of a flow with it, it doesn't synergize with anything besides torch or maybe axe in the offhand for the quickness, and the build is wonky. But still, i felt like i was doing more damage than i had the right to do. What do you think?

I would not recommend trying to get a feel for damage from big crits or ticking numbers. If you truly are interested in your performance (or more relevantly, your performance measured compared to others engaging in the same content you are right now), you should download arcdps to get an objective measure. Then you can simply compare yourself to how other people in your party/squad are doing.