Matchmaking needs to be changed

[Knote.2904]

Not having top players have to wait in queue for ever is fine and all, but with how small the pvp population is this just doesn't work and creates a completely unhealthy matchmaking and ranked scene. The primary way these players climb is to duo queue cheese meta builds and then queue at off hours to farm silvers and gold players for extreme win rates. There's also so few of them in a clique that they rotate their rating farming times so they never queue on their mains at the same times. I see it almost every night if I am playing really late (3 am pst), naru is duo queueing at these times with a sweaty duo, and the rest of the players are just average gold players and it's a very boring 1 sided stomp, even if I'm on his team benefitting it's not fun.

Top players should have to compete with each other for the top and not just collectively farm lower players for free spots at the top. Instead of match making trying to average rating and pairing top players against lower players constantly. Queueing needs to be capped within a division. Legend players only against legend players, plat again plat, gold again gold, etc. If there's not enough players in a division then that's another thing that should be fixed or adjusted for the population, because it's too difficult for people to hit legend at this point. 

[Downstate.4697]

You should listen to the teapot vid with naru and and helseth. Its not quite that simple and your suggestion would just cause top players to quit or make alts

[Lysico.4906]

Just don’t allow duo group.  

[Bast.7253]

Remove duo and displayable titles/leaderboards/badges. 
 

 

[JTGuevara.9018]

27 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

Remove duo and displayable titles/leaderboards/badges. 
 

 

I mean...they're pretty much bought and paid for anyway. It's like seeing a freakin' billboard lmao.

[Nardosson.3209]

They should add Strict Solo Matchmaking feature.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

5 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

You should listen to the teapot vid with naru and and helseth. Its not quite that simple and your suggestion would just cause top players to quit or make alts

They already make alts and they're most assuredly bluffing about quitting.

More's the pity. Goodbye & good riddance, i'd say.

[JTGuevara.9018]

5 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

You should listen to the teapot vid with naru and and helseth. Its not quite that simple and your suggestion would just cause top players to quit or make alts

Baahahaha...!! People STILL listen to those fools?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

there is a cap on how far the matchmaker will go in search of players but on off hours when theres no one else i guess the mm doesn't account for the low pop. anet might be aware of this and disable it manually so people can play cuz they figure allowing people to play is better then not even if it leads to lopsided matches.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

there is a cap on how far the matchmaker will go in search of players but on off hours when theres no one else i guess the mm doesn't account for the low pop. anet might be aware of this and disable it manually so people can play cuz they figure allowing people to play is better then not even if it leads to lopsided matches.

The cap has mostly been removed at this point, I asked around in games last season and found players all the way from bronze to platinum on my team in the same game, with silver vs. platinum being extremely common. We knew they kept widening the search parameters over the years to account for the lower population, but around the time that IBS dropped it seems to've had all restrictions removed.

 

I've been teamed with the top 10 players both for and against in placement matches last few seasons, causing my placements to be completely screwed up, so I just gave up entirely at this point. Additionally, being in a game with the top 10 has now become common place, regardless of your rank.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Grimjack.8130]

id love to go against 10 plat players every game i queue into, but the last time thats happened was back in 2019 so thats not gonna happen anytime soon, people arent dodging people they care about rating, people are dodging because its not fun rolling dice on the mmr and its not fun going into predecided games.

does naru get the 1 lone other plat player on his team or do i? well thats the team thats winning that game, and thats it. or even worse when it happens and the plat player is put with a duo against a solo qer, which for some reason happens more than the opposite way

simply put the MMR system is not made to handle such a low top end population and it CANNOT do its job properly. it routinely will put plat players onto teams that are already favored to win because it cares far more about not putting 2 of the same class on the same team than it does about rating, and why wouldnt it? it doesnt know that the skill rating between a plat player and a gold 3 player is literally like playing against AI or a vs a human being, it cant know that. It goes off of rating, when rating is meaningless.

for gods sake the point where we're at is where it will take silver players to balance out a plat players rating, because it cant even find a single other plat player to put on the other team to go with the 4 gold 2-3s on each team

 

[Goldilock.2584]

I felt the games where better where u could not duo past p2. But i also had to look at the year this happened and pvp was more players.

[JTGuevara.9018]

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The cap has mostly been removed at this point, I asked around in games last season and found players all the way from bronze to platinum on my team in the same game, with silver vs. platinum being extremely common. We knew they kept widening the search parameters over the years to account for the lower population, but around the time that IBS dropped it seems to've had all restrictions removed.

 

I've been teamed with the top 10 players both for and against in placement matches last few seasons, causing my placements to be completely screwed up, so I just gave up entirely at this point. Additionally, being in a game with the top 10 has now become common place, regardless of your rank.

Yeah...I got matched both with and against 'X of the Arena' players. It's like..matchmaking is completely useless. Nobody knows how skilled they really are anymore. The system is that horrid. Just completely useless. You're better off just literally rolling the dice at this point.

[Bizgurk.5639]

6 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

there is a cap on how far the matchmaker will go in search of players

That cap is 1200.
So if someone with a skill rating of 0 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 in order to create a match.
Furthemore, if someone with a skill rating of 2400 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 as well.
The cap reaches from legendary division all the way down to bronze.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

8 hours ago, Bizgurk.5639 said:

That cap is 1200.
So if someone with a skill rating of 0 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 in order to create a match.
Furthemore, if someone with a skill rating of 2400 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 as well.
The cap reaches from legendary division all the way down to bronze.

<Rating start="3m" end="10m" max="1200" min="25"/>

yeah you're right, i haven't checked the algo in a while. wasn't like that before. big lols now i really can't comprehend why people are still try harding in ranked. really sad.

[JTGuevara.9018]

8 hours ago, Bizgurk.5639 said:

That cap is 1200.
So if someone with a skill rating of 0 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 in order to create a match.
Furthemore, if someone with a skill rating of 2400 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 as well.
The cap reaches from legendary division all the way down to bronze.

That is hilarious. Also, completely absurd lmao! "Sorry there, player! We'll have to lower the bar just so we can host a match!!" So, all that's left in ranked is the pretense of competition among players, then. Noted!

"Hey! Let's all pretend to compete for some pretend reward or title!"

[Knote.2904]

20 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

id love to go against 10 plat players every game i queue into, but the last time thats happened was back in 2019 so thats not gonna happen anytime soon, people arent dodging people they care about rating, people are dodging because its not fun rolling dice on the mmr and its not fun going into predecided games.

does naru get the 1 lone other plat player on his team or do i? well thats the team thats winning that game, and thats it. or even worse when it happens and the plat player is put with a duo against a solo qer, which for some reason happens more than the opposite way

simply put the MMR system is not made to handle such a low top end population and it CANNOT do its job properly. it routinely will put plat players onto teams that are already favored to win because it cares far more about not putting 2 of the same class on the same team than it does about rating, and why wouldnt it? it doesnt know that the skill rating between a plat player and a gold 3 player is literally like playing against AI or a vs a human being, it cant know that. It goes off of rating, when rating is meaningless.

for gods sake the point where we're at is where it will take silver players to balance out a plat players rating, because it cant even find a single other plat player to put on the other team to go with the 4 gold 2-3s on each team

 

This is literally all I want to. I also don't even give a kitten about rating when it doesnt even mean much anymore. I'm just tired of sleeping through one sided stomps.

[Zekent.3652]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:13 PM, FrownyClown.8402 said:

You should listen to the teapot vid with naru and and helseth. Its not quite that simple and your suggestion would just cause top players to quit or make alts

They already do the alts thing, and a lot of them also avoids competition, competitive players doing that, lmao, sweatty gamers abusing the duoQ and alts.

Also, they're just a really small part of the community, you don't need to ruin the majority of the players experience just because of some sweatty gamers that avoids real competition, let those guys fight the other high rank ones instead of abusing the low rank ones.  

[Marxx.5021]

It was stated in the past that it works as intended. Otherwise high ranked players wouldn't find matches. This is one reason for low population in PvP. Unlike PvE it is simply not designed to attract many players.

[Cyninja.2954]

At this point it might be a good idea to look at other MMOs which are successful at pvp, say League for example.

Add in alternate game modes (add in any type of game modes tbh, this 5v5 capture 3 points has grown stale after 10 years. I twas stale 5 years ago already) which are semi pvp focused if need be if only to increase the player population so the "main" game mode can be sustained.

One thing I am missing was and always has been a pick and band phase for ranked.

Teapot had a nice discussion about barrier of entry to spvp, which is very high for a new player and becomes even worse when getting stomped due to unbalanced matchmaking. Offer a practice vs AI mode if need be, anything which gets more players interested into trying spvp and actually improving at it and staying needs to be explored by now.

That or the game mode will degenerate, I know it's hard to imagine, even more. There has been a huge influx of new players this year and nearly none of that seems to have converted to spvp. That is the most disturbing aspect tbh.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Spellhunter.9675]

5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Offer a practice vs AI mode

I imagine new players vs 5 mesmer bots runned by anet. 

[Cyninja.2954]

9 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

I imagine new players vs 5 mesmer bots runned by anet. 

 

5 mirage bots would be very difficult tbh, that class was/is pretty strong when played aggressively. That said, absolutely there could be different "tiers" of bots, but that might be totally out of the scope of the game or resources devoted to the mode.

 

I was actually thinking along the lines of Leagues ARAM (All Random All Mid), basically a simplified game mode based around a single lane instead of 3 lanes with jungle in-between. Not sure how to convert that to GW2 Conquest, maybe a single point to capture which resets and/or changes ownership as to simulate different scenarios.

 

The important part would be to somehow make players feel both comfortable at designing builds around specific tasks as well as understanding spvp combat flow. Obviously with limited contribution to spvp rank (or none at all) and reward tracks, which we already have with custom arenas.

 

Ah, I guess one can dream.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

13 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

It was stated in the past that it works as intended. Otherwise high ranked players wouldn't find matches. This is one reason for low population in PvP. Unlike PvE it is simply not designed to attract many players.

 

I think they need to show ranks (as in actual like 'p2, g3' not just 'plat/gold./etc' in the match lineup screen, that way if you happen to be the sole like bronze against a bunch of high gold / plats then you can choose to just take the dishonor, and that dishonor would be slightly less based on how outmatched you are.

 

On 10/9/2022 at 4:13 AM, Bizgurk.5639 said:

That cap is 1200.
So if someone with a skill rating of 0 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 in order to create a match.
Furthemore, if someone with a skill rating of 2400 waits 10 minutes in queue, then he could be treated as someone with a skill rating of 1200 as well.
The cap reaches from legendary division all the way down to bronze.

 

This is interesting.  I've always wondered what the 'X of the arena' stuff meant and how I'd see it ranging from my time in silver 3 to gold 3. 

Now it kind of makes sense, but they always seem to be not the most skilled players either so it baffles me; I mean not always, but just because you have one or two on your team doesn't mean a slaughter, I've lost like 200-500 plenty of times with 'high title' players on team. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:56 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

does naru get the 1 lone other plat player on his team or do i? well thats the team thats winning that game, and thats it. or even worse when it happens and the plat player is put with a duo against a solo qer, which for some reason happens more than the opposite way

If you're serious here then someone should mention this in that discord

We seen it, and its all just standard balance complaining. 

We could complain about matchmaking on the forums until we curl over and die; its never going to be answered, but if someone in that discord started a dialogue about it, at least pretended like they cared about better matchmaking then maybe that would become a priority.

On 10/8/2022 at 10:56 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

simply put the MMR system is not made to handle such a low top end population and it CANNOT do its job properly. it routinely will put plat players onto teams that are already favored to win because it cares far more about not putting 2 of the same class on the same team than it does about rating

This a good point as well.

So tell them to get rid of class-swap too while you're at it.

[Bunny.9834]

Idk what you're talking about. Matchmaking in this game is genius.