More loot for supports / return the old retaliation

[Rockal.5468]

I would just like to say that WvW is really unrewarding towards support players, and it went even worse with the remove of the old reta, but...

its total disaster if you would like to play pure healing build, which wasnt really possible until EoD and vindicator elite + the ventari rework.

 

I was trying to play around the healing of blue alliance for quite some time now, started before the ventari rework, but since the rework I started to enjoy it even more since I could basically focus only on healing, but the issue is, that you are not tagging any enemies, not getting any loot nor progressing in ultimate dominator while you are still somehow helpful for the teamplay. 

 

From 3 blob fights I had total of 4 kills. 

 

And it's just not issue since last Tuesday when people start to play it after the dodge rework (I would most likely still return to 1 dodge with faster fall and reduced energy cost), I am usually playing just once or twice a week so didn't bother to write a post, but since the build is getting some love I am going to fight for my fellow heal vindicators.

[roana.2654]

I agree that healers in WvW get the very short end of the stick.  I started playing heal scrapper over a year and a half ago, and finally gave it up after about a year because it was so very unrewarding.  I, too, need bags for the mats in them for making legendaries, thanks.  I shouldn't have to go grind PvE for hours to get mats because I chose to support my team in the only mode I want to play 99% of the time. 

How hard would it be to add a small AoE damage amount to heal skills, to even out the playing field for players in all roles?  

Edited October 10, 2022 by roana.2654

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the old retal should stay dead.

[Xenesis.6389]

Yeah it really sucks being the top meta and having two guaranteed spots in every single group. We need to get more more loot than some random dps who do the actual killing. They should put a special bonus on minstrels, wearing a full set gives you 100% magic find and 100% more wxp. Also there needs to be an auto tax generated from all players in a group (not squad, it would be too much), 100% sounds about nice, so for every monetary reward a group member earns we also earn the same amount, since players are stingy and don't want to donate bags in an organized group.

Normally you wouldn't want to be an accomplice to a crime like murder, but I feel like we should get credit on all kills from the group, even for just removing one condition on a person, or spraying them for 10 heal, we helped save their lives, we deserve full credit for whatever they do. I hope anet looks into this situation in the very near future, stop denying us loot, we take the same risks as everyone else running around, and we're forced to run tank stats and mindlessly spray heals and cleanses on everyone. It's been almost a year since they stated they know that support has loot problems, let's get this fixed already.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Not sure what builds you run. My support builds usually include offensive skills because you need to be ready to solo people at any given time too. Its kind of the trade off that players need to decide between full support and full offense. It seems like Anet is leaning towards you if you go full DPS one way you will fall at some point. But if you go full the other way we aren't going to pay you to just be a sponge. Not saying support might not need some love, but why not build out so you are doing some of both? As I tell DPS players, dead deeps don't do no deeps, but its just as bad when a support just feels that by them just spraying aoe support helps anyone when they aren't actually around anyone. 

 

[Xenesis.6389]

9 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not sure what builds you run. My support builds usually include offensive skills because you need to be ready to solo people at any given time too. Its kind of the trade off that players need to decide between full support and full offense. It seems like Anet is leaning towards you if you go full DPS one way you will fall at some point. But if you go full the other way we aren't going to pay you to just be a sponge.

Not saying support might not need some love, but why not build out so you are doing some of both? As I tell DPS players, dead deeps don't do no deeps, but its just as bad when a support just feels that by them just spraying aoe support helps anyone when they aren't actually around anyone. 

Because their guild tells them to run minstrels and all support skills, and being zombies they don't have a choice, or they need to pad meters cause that somehow quantifies how well they perform in an environment that is totally random in every single encounter and not static like a raid boss or training dummy. The obvious answer is for then to run some more dps oriented stats like celestial, or have a couple aoes to tag to go along with their support tagging, but no, can't have that. A dps has to run more tank stats if they want to survive one shots, but don't tell a support run more dps stats to get bags.

[ArchonWing.9480]

They should just remove damage thresholds from tagging and credit you with nearby party kills as long as you were in combat. Note that yak credit already has no damage threshold-- just hit it once to get credit.

That being said, heavy loot bags are like 2.29 silver which is like nothing. What else is there? Spikes. Just remember to tag uplevels since those bags have mid-tier mats. Even precursor's aren't really that valuable anymore.

Mostly anything of value comes from reward tracks and maybe skirmish tracks. Hurting your party to get a few more spikes is very silly.

Also of these, firebrand shouldn't have much trouble tagging because of reflects. Support scrapper still has elixir gun which isn't as good but still works. Chrono is medicore as always though.

So I guess it's harder to get UD, but that title basically means nothing anymore.

Edited October 10, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[solemn.9670]

Staff aura share heal tempest is pretty good in this regard because you can tag a lot of bags at 1200 range (lots of ground targeting skills as well) once the battle has mostly been decided/opponents are losing

I agree that it should be easier for supports to get bags, but in the meantime, if you want bags while supporting try staff tempest

[Svarty.8019]

5 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

They should just remove damage thresholds from tagging and credit you with nearby party kills as long as you were in combat. Note that yak credit already has no damage threshold-- just hit it once to get credit.

If you die and you're in combat, everybody you're in combat with (whether they hit you or you hit them) should get credit.

 

Am I missing something?

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

If you die and you're in combat, everybody you're in combat with (whether they hit you or you hit them) should get credit.

 

Am I missing something?

There's a minimum amount of damage that needs to be done. Sometimes if you don't hit a guard or lord hard enough you get no LOOT. But that's not true of dolyaks. Then again I'm not too sure about players but I guess I don't pay attention to who I give loot too lol.

If you don't hit a target, they definitely don't give loot.

I guess I should try min tapping people next time.

Edited October 11, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Aeolus.3615]

STOP using minstrell stats and   smashing utilities for the boon farting only 😄 that's how one get's more bags

 

@ArchonWing.9480 I think it is arround 700 damage dps on target now something like that, if i reccal was reduced from 1k, stuff from the old gw2 forum i think.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Svarty.8019]

7 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

There's a minimum amount of damage that needs to be done. Sometimes if you don't hit a guard or lord hard enough you get no LOOT. But that's not true of dolyaks. Then again I'm not too sure about players but I guess I don't pay attention to who I give loot too lol.

If you don't hit a target, they definitely don't give loot.

I guess I should try min tapping people next time.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant, that's how I believe it should work.

[Asahi.1487]

I run full minstrel support guard with sword summon to tag. Don't tell my guild

[Rockal.5468]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:32 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Because their guild tells them to run minstrels and all support skills, and being zombies they don't have a choice, or they need to pad meters cause that somehow quantifies how well they perform in an environment that is totally random in every single encounter and not static like a raid boss or training dummy. The obvious answer is for then to run some more dps oriented stats like celestial, or have a couple aoes to tag to go along with their support tagging, but no, can't have that. A dps has to run more tank stats if they want to survive one shots, but don't tell a support run more dps stats to get bags.

I am not part of any guild, so who tells me? 

 

But you are right, maybe I can swap the minstrel gear to marauder/berserker, swap to offensive weapons and change traits aswell.

 

Still the fact is that supports getting less loot, but I was using the issue mostly with vindicator, as its only build that actually allows you to be full healer since the ventari rework (and if you swap between blue alliance and ventari, you just dont have how to dmg enemies). Since I log only to wvw, the reward trucks and lootbags are the only income. But what is more sad for me that I am not progressing in Ultimate dominator. 

But it's whatever. Gonna wait another year if the balance team doesn't allow some other fun to play build apart the meta that's already in game for 2+ years. 

 

And remember it's still a teamplay. The dmg won't survive enemy squad without supports, the supports won't kill the enemy squad without dmg classes. It's going hand to hand, but the classes aren't equal in rewards.

[Xenesis.6389]

39 minutes ago, Rockal.5468 said:

I am not part of any guild, so who tells me? 

 

But you are right, maybe I can swap the minstrel gear to marauder/berserker, swap to offensive weapons and change traits aswell.

 

Still the fact is that supports getting less loot, but I was using the issue mostly with vindicator, as its only build that actually allows you to be full healer since the ventari rework (and if you swap between blue alliance and ventari, you just dont have how to dmg enemies). Since I log only to wvw, the reward trucks and lootbags are the only income. But what is more sad for me that I am not progressing in Ultimate dominator. 

But it's whatever. Gonna wait another year if the balance team doesn't allow some other fun to play build apart the meta that's already in game for 2+ years. 

 

And remember it's still a teamplay. The dmg won't survive enemy squad without supports, the supports won't kill the enemy squad without dmg classes. It's going hand to hand, but the classes aren't equal in rewards.

So you're not part of a guild, so no one forces you to run minstrels..... yet you run minstrels and complain you can't get loot?

Maybe you should swap some pieces to celestial or even mara? I run solo with celestial on my scrapper and mesmer and get loot? 🤷‍♂️

So you're getting credit for just healing on vindicator but not on the other healers? cause the support contribution formula is the same for all of them, soooo....

Ultimate dominator, so you want to get a killer title without killing people? Hey I'll let you in on something, I just got it last year, it means nothing, all it says is you tagged 250k people mostly in a zerg, people don't even see your title unless they click on you in wvw, there's nothing prestigious about it.

The dmg won't survive enemy squad without support? wrong, but that would require dmg to have a brain and position themselves properly and not be a meatshield with the rest of stacking meatshields.

The support won't kill the enemy without dmg classes? right.

You want loot then do some damage, it's a very low treshold of damage combined with your support contribution.

I'm not saying support maybe shouldn't get a little more, maybe the support contribution threshold should go up, but please, don't run around in full tank heal stats and expect the same loot as a dps who puts in the actual work to kill someone.

[mysticozzy.3589]

8 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

You want loot then do some damage, it's a very low treshold of damage combined with your support contribution.

I'm not saying support maybe shouldn't get a little more, maybe the support contribution threshold should go up, but please, don't run around in full tank heal stats and expect the same loot as a dps who puts in the actual work to kill someone.

 This ^

[Bern.9613]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:28 PM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

the old retal should stay dead.

I agree. I lived through the original retal days were a thief would kill themselves doing a backstab or dagger storm on a guard, warrior or dagger storm in front of a zerg.

[Chaba.5410]

Why did you end up playing heal vindicator?  Are you still playing it after finding out how unrewarding it is compared to other support options (what are you playing instead)?  And are you going to play it after today's nerf?

Edited October 18, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[posthumecaver.6473]

First of no to retal, I don't want the days of dropping one meteor shower and dying to my own damage, second loot for support, play dps men, if no group can find supports because it is so unrewarding then may be ANet will do something, not before.

[Aeolus.3615]

4 hours ago, posthumecaver.6473 said:

First of no to retal, I don't want the days of dropping one meteor shower and dying to my own damage, second loot for support, play dps men, if no group can find supports because it is so unrewarding then may be ANet will do something, not before.

Retaliation IF or WHEN comes back will have to be some sorta individual/selfish effect that reflects some damage  in a small aoe zone arround the retaliation caster, this would fix the getting retaliation damage 1200 range from the target which was also very gimmicky and idiot.

Btw retaliation would be fun to be boosted by a X% of pwoer and a bit of  toughnes %

But how dumb the game balance and skill design trend is we all know that DEVs would put back perma zergs of resolution... which is the balance problem, to much aoe of everything that tends to get packed all together.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Kozumi.5816]

Yes just what WvW needs, more pacifist builds you can't interact with being played.

No, the fact that only healing players and performing zero offensive actions doesn't tag for you should be a huge wake up call that pure supports do not belong in this game at all.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Kozumi.5816