Sansar.1302 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Using number advantage to win fights is makeing this game mode so unfunn for me What is the point in fights if the enemy outman you 2-3 times or more else they only flee ? Dont matter if i am solo or in smal grp ( worse in smal grp actualy bc then you can tell they port to wait 4 more player so they can whipe youre grp with said 2-4 times more players) Why do people behave like this ? What are you geting out of having so clear number advantage ? Side note: ppt and capping needs to be slowed down by alot imo 1 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1) It takes two to tango. If you are fighting them outnumbered you are making that choice. You are not required to. Dont blaim them for your poor choice of taking that fight. 2) WvW is all about teamplay. You fight 1v3? Ask in mapchat for help and fight 3v3. They come back 3v6? Thats because they did the same. Now you ask for more help and get 6v6. This is the fundamental principle of how WvW works and scales from 1v1 to 50v50. 6 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) Outnumbered fights is the only thing that's actually fun in the gamemode tho, I personally can't really see the appeal of being on the other side of it, but there's plenty of things I can't see the appeal in, that still doesn't bother me. Getting proper blobbed is not particularly fun, but the problem there really is just that blobs have a host of mechanics that favor them in a very arbitrary way. Offensive AoE caps being the biggest offender, with the CC system of the game being a close second. Edited October 13, 2022 by lodjur.1284 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 @lodjur.1284 That deppends for how long the outmaned happens and by how much ur outmaned, havinf most time 4-10 players for all maps facind 2 omni queues not healthy. By the other side SoS/nsp managed to defend ebg keep vs a persistent blob till we had only 3-4 players to fight defending, went from outmaned to impossible, its fun only when u have players to team with and decent ones... which is rare nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: 1) It takes two to tango. If you are fighting them outnumbered you are making that choice. You are not required to. Dont blaim them for your poor choice of taking that fight. 2) WvW is all about teamplay. You fight 1v3? Ask in mapchat for help and fight 3v3. They come back 3v6? Thats because they did the same. Now you ask for more help and get 6v6. This is the fundamental principle of how WvW works and scales from 1v1 to 50v50. But why do people ask for/get more players when numbers are even this is what makes things unfun If they lack players relative to the other then it of course is fine to get more players, but to seek to outman the enemy is in my opinion borderline toxic and unsportsmanlike. Some servers are extreme in this regard and other almost dont do it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said: But why do people ask for/get more players when numbers are even this is what makes things unfun If they lack players relative to the other then it of course is fine to get more players, but to seek to outman the enemy is in my opinion borderline toxic and unsportsmanlike. Some servers are extreme in this regard and other almost dont do it at all. Thats how escalation work. The maps support ~75 per side and even maxed you will be outnumbered 2:1. You can argue "unfun" all day long it doesnt change how WvW work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said: But why do people ask for/get more players when numbers are even The most common reason is players are unable to count their number of opponents. They see a single mesmer and think it's 4 players. Or they say 10 is 20. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 7 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said: Using number advantage to win fights is makeing this game mode so unfunn for me What is the point in fights if the enemy outman you 2-3 times or more else they only flee ? Dont matter if i am solo or in smal grp ( worse in smal grp actualy bc then you can tell they port to wait 4 more player so they can whipe youre grp with said 2-4 times more players) Why do people behave like this ? What are you geting out of having so clear number advantage ? Side note: ppt and capping needs to be slowed down by alot imo This has always been the case and each time when they remove reasons for people to spread out occurs it will be worse. But that isn't new since we haven't had more recent change to affect that so for your case, if it feels like a recent change is it due to more players entering the game mode and defaulting to zerg first or a relink with a different mindset where the otherside does more callouts of need more here. If zerg versus zerg and you are lower in pop and people aren't changing it to zerg vs havocs since you have less it might be a relink and the ways servers play differently. If not it could be you opponents have had more new players entering for whatever reason. The time to take changes are further enough back that I don't think it is the issue but it might still be an impact on the outnumbered changes but they are also a little ways back so would look at mindset and population changes first. Again hoping that we get Alliances rolling so we can get to some of the items behind them or also have them re-look at outnumbered so its more of an encouragement to play against the odds versus a get out of the way warning its become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 While it's not open world pvp, it's also not spvp, once you step out of spawn you shouldn't have any expectations from anyone. People who mostly play this game mode and want stuff need to scoop up bags and they'll find them where they can get them regardless of what you think is fair. People looking for action are going to find it where it's at, so if you pull agro, agro will come. Most people don't want to spend what time they get after work dueling you under properly prepared conditions. If you want to balance the numbers you need to goad your people towards something and help keep them up and give them an example of what to do to keep your side in a fight. Or, you can rage at all of your people you passed up on the map earlier for not sticking with you getting wiped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackuuna.4085 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said: If they lack players relative to the other then it of course is fine to get more players, but to seek to outman the enemy is in my opinion borderline toxic and unsportsmanlike. The only advantage the unorganized can quickly and easily achieve is to rally for more. Sometimes people are just so desperate for something to fight that a simple callout results in way more people showing up than needed. If your groups are lethal enough, then yes, pugs will absolutely wait for overwhelming numbers before re-engaging you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, Hackuuna.4085 said: The only advantage the unorganized can quickly and easily achieve is to rally for more. Sometimes people are just so desperate for something to fight that a simple callout results in way more people showing up than needed. If your groups are lethal enough, then yes, pugs will absolutely wait for overwhelming numbers before re-engaging you. Heck you barely even need to go as far as groups. I've seen and fought some *really* good players. Like top tier perfectly playing their builds which of course also are insanely strong. Basicly players that 3 average WvWers will fail to kill and/or die to. And then when they die... rage whispers, noob, fite me 1v1, etc etc. Of course they are never the "problem" in the fight, oh no. The fact they *needed* to be outnumbered to be beaten well that's irrelevant. I mean if a thief engage a zerg 1v50 and was able to kill 30 of them before he dies I bet he would still ragequit and complain the game sucks and thief is the worst class ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkidu.5937 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said: What are you geting out of having so clear number advantage ? Your server gets a higher K/D, so you can call you a fight server and make fun of people that build waypoints 🥸 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 Where posting this realy early today after a not so fun morning in wvw, so many adds/ smal grps 4-6 (one of the server in this match up i belive actualy have a buddy system or vetran mentor that coordinates daily wvw stuff like vet warg etc) I know my play style is part of the problem ( i know atleast one server have warning video about me ) as i can at best days have many many solo kills in a hour+ and most seam to realy hate 1v1 or numberical ballanced figths smal scale. Yes i attack people waiting for vetran warg etc and my favorite is waiting behind that big rock close to there and abush those that run for south camp (this is after war claw where added before i would roam alot more) Few times some one follow me around a bit and for a few moments is effectively a duo, not by my choise but then i get bored and logg off or port to another border ( dont want to tell them off esp if they are new even if i only want to be solo ) I realise that what player seek in wvw differ so mutch (solo , ppt , figth , guild grps , smal scale etc ) many only want to get a few things and then return to pve Over the years the ballance in the wvw play styles have shifted alot and i dont like the new direction 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear.9568 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: 1) It takes two to tango. If you are fighting them outnumbered you are making that choice. You are not required to. Dont blaim them for your poor choice of taking that fight. 2) WvW is all about teamplay. You fight 1v3? Ask in mapchat for help and fight 3v3. They come back 3v6? Thats because they did the same. Now you ask for more help and get 6v6. This is the fundamental principle of how WvW works and scales from 1v1 to 50v50. Is this a joke? "Ask for help" in an outnumbered map. Clearly you lack perception on what low population servers have to deal with. You don't just ask for help and players show up. It's a godsend to even hold your own keep against bloated servers. There's no teamplay in wvw, it's a kitten show of AOE and Stab. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Bear.9568 said: Is this a joke? "Ask for help" in an outnumbered map. You dont have team chat? Yes, you can actually try getting assistance. It's never guaranteed, true. But if you dont try you'll never know. And in my experience, most people seem to prefer dying outnumbered and then complain about it than take the time to make a proper scouting report. I can add that I run quite a bit on DBL as well. Sometimes I can run solo in a random weekend hour... there's a 5-10 man guild group taking *everything* because of course there is. But we never seem to face them properly, just sporadic fights with a few others. I call out. No one come. I see people in spawn, I see people at camps, I see people everywhere. But no one come. There's been times I've scrolled through my chat and realized I am literally *the only one* that's typed anything in the past hour, all scouting reports, movements of the enemy and wall/door statuses. Not even a peep from anyone. And we could easily outman that enemy group taking everything 2:1 if everyone on the map actually responded. Of course if you tag up you have like 15 people around you within 2 minutes because they're drawn to the tag like flies to dung. As I've said above and many times before... that's WvW. It's just how it works. We wouldnt be playing it for 10+ years if we didnt like it. Edited October 13, 2022 by Dawdler.8521 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bear.9568 said: Is this a joke? "Ask for help" in an outnumbered map. Clearly you lack perception on what low population servers have to deal with. You don't just ask for help and players show up. It's a godsend to even hold your own keep against bloated servers. There's no teamplay in wvw, it's a kitten show of AOE and Stab. I kind of get your point, but even outnumbered most maps have a hidden squad or something rolling around. You don't have to ask for help, just feel the map breath and find some people doing stuff to ride with. They're likely to run into whatever group you need numbers against anyway. Rambling you can ignore: Spoiler There is team play in WvW, but a lot of people are trying to be legit blobs and crashing into stuff entirely relying on their builds and the tag with their core squad but have no elasticity or peripheral alertness and, they don't plot or feel things out. Watch some videos of pack animals hunting stuff. The way a pack of wild dogs move looks chaotic and savage, but you can keep watching and see the fluid system of combat and team movement and structure they condition themselves to so they can move around and in sync of each other in a moving hunt or fight but they also move in a way that mitigates a counter or turns a counter towards them into a trap they can use (that elasticity). You don't need a lot of planning or chatter but you do need to go out and show your people what's up. Feel out a fight before going in hard and see what you can open up for your people to jump on and make that the norm, people catch on and a pug culture grows and most of that grows out of teasing out body language from both sides of a fight to influence how it rolls out. People tune into that vibe even if they don't know it. Edited October 13, 2022 by kash.9213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 59 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: You dont have team chat? Yes, you can actually try getting assistance. It's never guaranteed, true. But if you dont try you'll never know. And in my experience, most people seem to prefer dying outnumbered and then complain about it than take the time to make a proper scouting report. I can add that I run quite a bit on DBL as well. Sometimes I can run solo in a random weekend hour... there's a 5-10 man guild group taking *everything* because of course there is. But we never seem to face them properly, just sporadic fights with a few others. I call out. No one come. I see people in spawn, I see people at camps, I see people everywhere. But no one come. There's been times I've scrolled through my chat and realized I am literally *the only one* that's typed anything in the past hour, all scouting reports, movements of the enemy and wall/door statuses. Not even a peep from anyone. And we could easily outman that enemy group taking everything 2:1 if everyone on the map actually responded. Of course if you tag up you have like 15 people around you within 2 minutes because they're drawn to the tag like flies to dung. As I've said above and many times before... that's WvW. It's just how it works. We wouldnt be playing it for 10+ years if we didnt like it. Playing with random people is so unfun , if i actualy grp up with some one in wvw then its because i have played alot of spvp with them before and we can function as a duo or smal grp that actualy augment eatch other and not only be a +1 Would never respond to random calouts in map/team chat as been burnt by that so many times coming trying to help only to find whole situation imposible ( worse after warclaw as now things happends so fast ) And side note 1 vs 3 is way easier to win than 2 vs 6 😞 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said: Side note: ppt and capping needs to be slowed down by alot imo Arenanet staff don't agree. They admitted they don't play WvW much and then they even NERFED walls to make them weaker and wreck the game, in the name of their own (part-timer) vision of what WvW should be and without asking any players. I'm very unimpressed with the developers' vision, and they seem like such nice people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said: But why do people ask for/get more players when numbers are even this is what makes things unfun If they lack players relative to the other then it of course is fine to get more players, but to seek to outman the enemy is in my opinion borderline toxic and unsportsmanlike. Some servers are extreme in this regard and other almost dont do it at all. Why are you playing WvW instead of SPvP if you want to fight restricted numbers of foes rather than an opposing, "world?" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said: Why are you playing WvW instead of SPvP if you want to fight restricted numbers of foes rather than an opposing, "world?" I do play alot of spvp , Spvp is fun but it dont have the good figths that you get in wvw ( so few builds exisit in spvp due to gear restictions etc) Spvp you win by capping not figths( there still is alot of figths but... ) WvW for me is only about figths smal or large ( but i willl leave if enemy use superior numbers ) yes ppt is a thing and will always be i know 1v1 is fun 5v5 is fun 50v50 is fun 1v4 not fun 5 vs 15 not fun 50 vs 75 not fun Be a good sportsman and figth with eaven numbers Edited October 14, 2022 by Sansar.1302 bad spelling 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 It suck but hardly against any rule, it's also a strategy Of course Anet is trying to reduce this with Alliance, so outnumbered fights aren't because your server is sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 Just now, Ultramex.1506 said: It suck but hardly against any rule, it's also a strategy Of course Anet is trying to reduce this with Alliance, so outnumbered fights aren't because your server is sleep I realy fear the Alliance i think it will give guilds and guild leaders too mutch power 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said: I realy fear the Alliance i think it will give guilds and guild leaders too mutch power We'll see either that or another dead week because your server isnt an wvw server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ultramex.1506 said: We'll see either that or another dead week because your server isnt an wvw server Never had a dead week in wvw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T G.7496 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Yes, it's boring. But if you don't like a fight, don't take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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