Idea for Legendary Back Items (Why Craft All 3)

[Excursion.9752]

I was contemplating on making my 3rd legendary back piece the other day (for the skin) and it got me thinking.  Why not have an achievement for getting all three back items? Then have a new skin, infusion, and or Title tied  to earning said achievement. Off the top of my head I couldn't think of any one item that shows you have dedicated a bit of your time in each of the game modes PvE, PvP, and WvW. This could be just that.

Not going to lie I felt sorta ripped off when the people who had multiple of the same legendary got rewarded when the armory came out with a https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Reliquary.. I felt a little put off by not getting one because I had a Ad Infinitum and Warbringer and only one back to put it on. I understand the reasoning to why I didn't receive one I just felt a tad bit tilted because I really didn't have a need for two now since the armory had arrived.

Adding something like this would give me incentive  to crafting my third back piece and justification to having the two I already crafted.

[DarcShriek.5829]

Why should Anet have to motivate you to make a 3rd backpiece?  Do it or don't.  Adults can motivate themselves.  Anet doesn't need you to make a 3rd backpiece.  It's available so you have a choice on what path to take.  But that doesn't seem to be enough, you want even more from them.

Edited November 4, 2022 by DarcShriek.5829

[Danikat.8537]

For most of the games lifespan the skin was the main or only benefit to making a legendary. Even with the free stat-swapping the benefit over ascended was minimal. All you're saying here is that in your case that hasn't changed - your incentive to make a new backpack is to get the skin.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

hmm... I destroyed Warbringer (along with my legendary WvW armor, Eternity, Bifrost, Kamohoali'i Kotaki, Kraitkin and Aurora) 3 years ago (before the Legendary Armory was introduced). Upon returning to the game and finding about the Equipment Template I found no reason to even bother trying to craft them again since legendaries became just really expensive skins (unless you have like a lot of alts I guess) so why must they reward player for having them at all?

Legendaries are just cosmetics, not skill needed, just endless grind. They make you no special whatsoever.

[Infusion.7149]

You get the skin, unlike with legendary WVW/PVP armor where you get nothing if you are adept at PVE raids.

Could they add a collection for all 3 game mode backpieces? Yes but PvE players would riot as usual.

[Excursion.9752]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:46 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Could they add a collection for all 3 game mode backpieces? Yes but PvE players would riot as usual.

I see what you mean 😉

On 11/4/2022 at 11:26 AM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Why should Anet have to motivate you to make a 3rd backpiece?  Do it or don't.  Adults can motivate themselves.  Anet doesn't need you to make a 3rd backpiece.  It's available so you have a choice on what path to take.  But that doesn't seem to be enough, you want even more from them.

Its clear to me after Anet releasing the Gen 3's and their skins that they are trying to get people back to areas of the game that don't get visited so frequently.  This would fall right in line with that. Is it necessary no, but it does gives a goal for people to go after.

On 11/4/2022 at 1:21 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

For most of the games lifespan the skin was the main or only benefit to making a legendary. Even with the free stat-swapping the benefit over ascended was minimal. All you're saying here is that in your case that hasn't changed - your incentive to make a new backpack is to get the skin.

You're half correct on my incentive. The other half was me not receiving a reliquary.  End game is all about skins that is why anet keeps making them and will continue to make them so yeah I would like a new skin who wouldn't?  I also mentioned that said item would show that you had shown some aptitude in pvp, pve, and wvw all in one item.  Which is a polarizing topic because people favor a particular game mode generally have some disdain in doing anything they don't like to do.  Example pvpers not wanting to do pve and vice versa.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

I support this, but would expand it to armour and weapons as well (and amulets).  The armoury is awesome, but it comes with the drawback of significantly devaluing going for a second legendary of the same type.  Adding some incentive to collect multiple would encourage players to go into content they otherwise might not, and open up the long term incentives nicely.

 

I'd probably want something better than the current "Here's a title" approach they've gone with for Twice Told Legend and the Gen 3 Variant collections, but not something so amazing that it would put people off.  Eternity was pretty good for this, being a super prestigious skin back in the day, but not so amazing that Sunrise and Twilight were redundant.

 

That said, a backpack that mixed the aesthetics of the three existing ones could be pretty awesome (or hideous)🙂 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:44 PM, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

hmm... I destroyed Warbringer (along with my legendary WvW armor, Eternity, Bifrost, Kamohoali'i Kotaki, Kraitkin and Aurora) 3 years ago (before the Legendary Armory was introduced). Upon returning to the game and finding about the Equipment Template I found no reason to even bother trying to craft them again since legendaries became just really expensive skins (unless you have like a lot of alts I guess) so why must they reward player for having them at all?

Legendaries are just cosmetics, not skill needed, just endless grind. They make you no special whatsoever.

1. you don't need transmutation charges to change the skin of a legendary item, so you can change your looks for free

2. removing runes and sigils is free; no upgrade extractor needed

3. you can freely change the stats of legendary gear

Three characteristics of legendary gear that make them more than just cosmetics and extremely convenient, especially with the constant changes of balance updates. Yes, you barely need any skill and it's a grind (not endless or you would never get it), but I don't know any game where top level gear doesn't require a lot of playing/grinding. Besides, grind in GW2 is a relative term. It's grind lite, at most. The most grindy aspect of the game isn't even legendaries, it's the WvW achievements.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

2 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

you don't need transmutation charges to change the skin of a legendary item

I have more than enough transmutation charges already and I can get way more easily.

 

2 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

removing runes and sigils

nice feature but in the end, I can buy, remplace, buy again and remplace again any runes on daily basis if I wanted without even worrying about gold. Besides, I already have the optimal runes for my build.

 

2 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

you can freely change the stats of legendary gear

I play Reaper only; besides Berserker's and Marauder's (which I already have), I have no reason to even bother with any other stat (Viper and Celestial are supposedly useful but not for me).

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

1 hour ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

I have more than enough transmutation charges already and I can get way more easily.

 

nice feature but in the end, I can buy, remplace, buy again and remplace again any runes on daily basis if I wanted without even worrying about gold. Besides, I already have the optimal runes for my build.

 

I play Reaper only; besides Berserker's and Marauder's (which I already have), I have no reason to even bother with any other stat (Viper and Celestial are supposedly useful but not for me).

That's great. And I honestly don't mean that sarcastically.

Question though: how does this apply to the entire GW2 community? Your response is admittedly only about your situation. Not everyone has enough transmutation charges. Not everyone has enough gold to buy the expensive sigils (and there are a few that are meta that cost quite a lot for sigils). Not everyone only plays one class/build. And for people who are meta players, things change quite a lot.

I play 8 out of 9 classes (Engineer never appealed to me so mine is relegated to farming the Hidden Garden every day). For a lot I have both condi and power builds, as well as support builds (several quickness and alacrity classes, for instance). The fact that I have the legendaries of all 3 armor weights, most weapon types (even dual wielded weapons), a back item and 4 out of 5 trinkets is extremely helpful in gearing all these characters quick, easy and cheap. I don't need any gemstore items to extract expensive sigils and runes from my armor when balance patches change the meta. And I can freely change my fashion a million times without ever having to worry about having enough transmutation charges (I don't play sPvP so didn't have a way to collect a large number of them before I got my legendaries). To me legendaries are extremely helpful and for many of them, especially the armor, I don't use the legendary skins. I do like the skins and it's part of the reason I make legendaries, but they have to fit the individual character's looks and that isn't nearly always the case.

So, all in all, legendaries are objectively much more than just fancy skins. The fact that you don't need them is a great position to be in. But that doesn't devalue them in any way for anybody else.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

13 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Question though: how does this apply to the entire GW2 community?

dunno

On 11/4/2022 at 1:44 PM, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

legendaries became just really expensive skins (unless you have like a lot of alts I guess)

 

[Excursion.9752]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:59 AM, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

 a backpack that mixed the aesthetics of the three existing ones could be pretty awesome (or hideous)🙂 

Wow didn't even think of this. That could be potentially epic. I started thinking you could  have a tiring up system sorta like stacking Aurora, Vision, & Coalescence. So people would not have to wait as long getting to their next skin.

Example:
Warbringer + Ad Infinitum = New Skin that combines their effects
Warbringer + The Ascension = New Skin that combines their effects
The Ascension + Ad Infinitum = New Skin that combines their effects
All Three = New Skin that combines all three effects

And In addition to the 4 new skins and sorry if I blow some minds here but lets make them dyeable.....
I still don't understand why anet has not made this happen yet for the OG skins yet.

[Gehenna.3625]

I don't think that many people are waiting for this and Anet probably doesn't want to invest resources into this either. Legendaries are what they are. You do the work, you get the legendary. I don't see them changing anything there.

[Excursion.9752]

11 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I don't think that many people are waiting for this and Anet probably doesn't want to invest resources into this either. Legendaries are what they are. You do the work, you get the legendary. I don't see them changing anything there.

A while back  I had a post asking Anet to bring back Dragon Bash. People said I was crazy and that it would never happen then they went into the whole rather spend resources yada yada. Then two months later BOOM Dragon Bash came back, resurrected from the dead. Was it because of my post most likely not, but it does go to show how well we can guess what Anet is doing or their desires. 

I do appreciate your opinion though.

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Excursion.9752 said:

People said I was crazy and that it would never happen then they went into the whole rather spend resources yada yada.

Nobody said that though 😄  

But sure, you won't get a certain answer from players about what anet will do.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Valkan.6514]

I have ascension and halfway through making warbringer when legendary armory update dropped. After that, my motivation just lost to continue and now those mats still sitting on my bank. If we get some achiv collection/title then im gonna continue make all the backpacks. Its a win/win situation for people like me who need end goal for something, people that already craft the 3 prior to the update, and hardcore completionist in general imo.

[Doggie.3184]

I have it for stat/infusion swap so I could care less about having all three. Can use that effort for another type of legendary. 

[roederich.2716]

When time passes by and you play all game mode at one point you prolly just have gathered the materials and currencies and all that.

so why not just craft if you know you have nothing else with all your materials to do.

i think specially the pvp ones dont require that much materials, they are more longevity of playing lots of pvp matches, no?

[Cyninja.2954]

The main benefit of crafting all 3 backpacks are the individual  skins. Yes, the legendary armor addition changed the value proposition because it shared the quality of life with all characters on the account, thus making the additional legendary backpacks "only" worth the additional skins while at the same time increasing the initial value proposition tremendously (for all legendary items).

 

You are now left with following value decision:

1. I value the skin enough to craft an additional legendary backpack from a different game mode (which comes WITH a unique glider skin)

2. I do not value the skin enough to craft an additional legendary backpack from a different game mode

 

I am unsure why the developers need to intervene here. On the contrary, with the higher value per first legendary backpiece, it becomes even more "prestigious" to own the other skins (though only to some extent since you can't show off 2 skins at the same time even if you can mix the backpack skin and a different glider). If you don't feel like going for them, then don't. Also yes, I own all 3 backpieces and see no issue with how the system works.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, Excursion.9752 said:

A while back  I had a post asking Anet to bring back Dragon Bash. People said I was crazy and that it would never happen then they went into the whole rather spend resources yada yada. Then two months later BOOM Dragon Bash came back, resurrected from the dead. Was it because of my post most likely not, but it does go to show how well we can guess what Anet is doing or their desires. 

I do appreciate your opinion though.

Sure but there's a difference in bringing something back and making something new. Bringing something back doesn't mean new coding. Also Dragon Bash was something more people wanted afaik and I'm not convinced more than a handful of people want this or rather care enough about this.

People always blindly throw the resources argument around but for me it's about cost vs benefit. Bringing an existing event back that benefits a lot of players vs something that will only benefit very few players is why I don't think Anet wants to spend the resources on it. And it will also open up a can of worms because if they were to do this then more requests will start coming in like this and I don't think that's a road they want to travel on.

Look at it like this: most players don't have ascended gear and use exotic backpacks at best, a fair amount of players has ascended backpacks and a small amount of players has a legendary backpack and only very few people have all 3. I can't prove these numbers but I think you might agree with that nonetheless because it makes sense.

But I don't deny that you have the right to come here and ask such a thing. I just don't see it as remotely likely they would do this, that's all. So for me it's an exercise in futility (if you catch that somewhat obscure reference). 😉

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Sure but there's a difference in bringing something back and making something new. Bringing something back doesn't mean new coding. Also Dragon Bash was something more people wanted afaik and I'm not convinced more than a handful of people want this or rather care enough about this.

People always blindly throw the resources argument around but for me it's about cost vs benefit. Bringing an existing event back that benefits a lot of players vs something that will only benefit very few players is why I don't think Anet wants to spend the resources on it. And it will also open up a can of worms because if they were to do this then more requests will start coming in like this and I don't think that's a road they want to travel on.

Look at it like this: most players don't have ascended gear and use exotic backpacks at best, a fair amount of players has ascended backpacks and a small amount of players has a legendary backpack and only very few people have all 3. I can't prove these numbers but I think you might agree with that nonetheless because it makes sense.

But I don't deny that you have the right to come here and ask such a thing. I just don't see it as remotely likely they would do this, that's all. So for me it's an exercise in futility (if you catch that somewhat obscure reference). 😉

So we can get some idea using GW2 Effciency:

 

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.key=skins&filter.type=Back&filter.rarity=7

 

Obviously the users there aren't an unbiased sample, but nearly 12% of players there have Ad Infinitum, and then a further 11% have one of the others.

 

So assuming that most players have only one backpiece (minimal overlap in those stats), that's nearly a quarter of players (who care enough to register on Efficiency) with at least one Legendary backpiece.

 

To me, that feels like a reasonable number of invested players to be thinking about designing for.  Especially if the goal of legendaries is to encourage trying different content types.  For example, obviously this is impacted heavily by time of play, but look at the drop off in Greatswords by generation:

 

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.key=skins&filter.type=Greatsword&filter.rarity=7

 

Even accounting for time of availability and older players leaving, nearly ten times more players spent an additional legendary's worth of gold for the shiny bauble on the hilt than have gone out and got the most recent Greatsword (with all it's new effects and variants).  If ANet want players engaging with their latest content (which I assume they do), then finding easy ways to incentivise veterans to do so seems like a sensible move to me.

[Cyninja.2954]

42 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

So we can get some idea using GW2 Effciency:

 

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.key=skins&filter.type=Back&filter.rarity=7

 

Obviously the users there aren't an unbiased sample, but nearly 12% of players there have Ad Infinitum, and then a further 11% have one of the others.

 

So assuming that most players have only one backpiece (minimal overlap in those stats), that's nearly a quarter of players (who care enough to register on Efficiency) with at least one Legendary backpiece.

 

To me, that feels like a reasonable number of invested players to be thinking about designing for.  Especially if the goal of legendaries is to encourage trying different content types.  For example, obviously this is impacted heavily by time of play, but look at the drop off in Greatswords by generation:

 

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.key=skins&filter.type=Greatsword&filter.rarity=7

 

Even accounting for time of availability and older players leaving, nearly ten times more players spent an additional legendary's worth of gold for the shiny bauble on the hilt than have gone out and got the most recent Greatsword (with all it's new effects and variants).  If ANet want players engaging with their latest content (which I assume they do), then finding easy ways to incentivise veterans to do so seems like a sensible move to me.

 

The change to legendaries had little to do with incentivising different content. It had all to do with encouraging more players to go for legendary gear in the first place at the expensen of long-term gearing and for some that meant diversifying content but most importantly: spending more time on the game short and mid-term.

 

That aside your suggestion isn't for designing content or goals for some players. It's to increase the reward so they are incentivised even more to go for those goals. There is content, in fact actual content and not rewards, to be had already when going for all 3 backpieces. Probably the most diversity in content to be had between all 3 versions.

 

It would make far more sense to implement say actual leggendary skins for WvW and Spvp before worrying about increasing the reward of multiple legendary backpacks. As mentioned earlier by me: legendary backpacks already come with some of, if not the, highest additional incentive to go for when facing multiple legendary items on the same slot. They reward both a unique skin and a glider.

 

Players can now decide if this value is enough for them or not. I doubt the developers will change anything here (maybe some type of Twice-told legend achievement).

Edited November 17, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Einsof.1457]

I love this idea

[Excursion.9752]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:21 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Sure but there's a difference in bringing something back and making something new. Bringing something back doesn't mean new coding. Also Dragon Bash was something more people wanted afaik and I'm not convinced more than a handful of people want this or rather care enough about this.

Rest assure that the dragon bash was created new. New achievements, new location, new events. While I am sure you are correct in more people wanting this because its low hanging fruit and easy to do on a whim but such people , in these forums, didn't think it was a good idea at the time.

 

On 11/17/2022 at 2:21 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Look at it like this: most players don't have ascended gear and use exotic backpacks at best, a fair amount of players has ascended backpacks and a small amount of players has a legendary backpack and only very few people have all 3. I can't prove these numbers but I think you might agree with that nonetheless because it makes sense.

In groups I run with the majority have all legendary equipment, at least armor and trinkets,  so while numbers and metrics will be skewed vs everyone whose ever played by those who play everyday.  When you say most players have exotic backpacks at best means your including some of my friends who played for less than a month 10 years ago then left.

 

On 11/17/2022 at 2:21 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

People always blindly throw the resources argument around but for me it's about cost vs benefit. Bringing an existing event back that benefits a lot of players vs something that will only benefit very few players is why I don't think Anet wants to spend the resources on it. And it will also open up a can of worms because if they were to do this then more requests will start coming in like this and I don't think that's a road they want to travel on.

Why wouldn't player requests be a road that we would not want to travel on. Some would argue its the only road we should be on.  Making a game have more breadth and depth in all areas is a good thing and having player input is a road that Anet has said repeatedly that they wanted.  Heck we have a pinned topics for suggestions and request in these forums.

 

On 11/17/2022 at 2:07 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

The main benefit of crafting all 3 backpacks are the individual  skins. Yes, the legendary armor addition changed the value proposition because it shared the quality of life with all characters on the account, thus making the additional legendary backpacks "only" worth the additional skins while at the same time increasing the initial value proposition tremendously (for all legendary items).

I am unsure why the developers need to intervene here. On the contrary, with the higher value per first legendary backpiece, it becomes even more "prestigious" to own the other skins (though only to some extent since you can't show off 2 skins at the same time even if you can mix the backpack skin and a different glider). If you don't feel like going for them, then don't. Also yes, I own all 3 backpieces and see no issue with how the system works.

For me the main benefit of having more than one originally was that you could have them on multiple characters on your account at the same time and secondly having the ability to change stats.

The game has changed a lot since the initial release of these back items and I think it would be a nice addition for the vets that may want to work towards something like this. There is so much already that has been designed for the general player base it would be nice for vets to have another thing to work toward in my opinion. I see it as simple as adding  4 new achievements and skins tied to them. While this would take some time to make it wouldn't be earth shaking. And like you said there is no issue how the system works currently, it would be an addition to the current system to give incentive to playing other modes that may be outside your comfort zone. Heck I would have never believed that I would like sPvP if it wouldn't have been for crafting Transcendence. This could bring others like me to a mode that needs more players. 

But like most things in this game, is it really needed? Not really. But would it be nice to have? It wouldn't hurt.

[Sobx.1758]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:28 AM, Doggie.3184 said:

I have it for stat/infusion swap so I could care less about having all three.