Which major, unrealistic feature would you gladly skip an expansion for?

[Vyr.9387]

1 hour ago, Freya.9075 said:

Have you played other games with open world pvp? In the games I did, they swarm around the start area where new players are and one shot them. Unless the game is dead. Making new players having to switch instances to get away from them (if they can). When these new players, IF they stay in the game, level up and gear up, many of them will go back for "revenge" on other new players when the time is right. It's a bad circle of grief and negative gameplay thinking "now it's my time to make other new players suffer". Sure higher level zones in these games are better when it comes to this, but the most important place for new players and the place they make their first impressions of the game is the starter areas and not those specific endgame zones.

Grew up in WoW, both on a PvP server with permanent flagging and a PvE server with voluntary opt-in/-out, currently also playing Black Desert where PvP is constantly mandatory. RuneScape before WoW, too, but Wilderness is more akin to WvW roaming, so I wouldn't count that one much.
Yes, there were instances of people and even groups of people brandishing their virtual phalli in starting zones, but there also were opposing parties mopping the floor with these suckers; and suckers they usually were, because the gladiatorial crème de la crème were more likely to be too busy practicing their arts instead of styling on level 10s.
Can't speak for what it does to people other than myself mentally, but I've never got the feeling that anybody I'd played with would start fighting a bunch of Alliance guys solely because they were Alliance.
Unless either side had had an obvious numerical advantage, but that had in vast majority of cases been a slaughter, not any kind of battle.
And it always felt so viscerally invigorating, emerging victorious 2v9.
But I'd also had a couple of characters on the Alliance side, standing by to chase off my own faction when it started doing stuff like this or killing quest NPCs or whatnot.
(channels inner Rucks)
...Those were the days.

Might've, of course, been simply lucky with the servers - or not around the starting zones enough to notice - but playing on god mode tends to be fun for a couple of minutes, maybe an hour, and then it simply gets repetitive and rather quickly boring.

 

 

2 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

 

This may work for some players. But it will not work well in the long run. Players will not stay in the game if their gameplay is negative. Which many players think when they get one hit by some high level player. A high percentage of these players will just quit the game as it's not the gameplay they wanted. You'd be surprised how many players just want a casual chill gaming experience. Not learning mechanics or care about build or gearing or "git gud mentality". Which gw2 open world lets them do. That is also why open world pve in gw2 is the most popular gamemode. It is that for a reason. 

Wouldn't be surprised at all, being a proud part of this group myself (except the no-git-gud part; haven't found a sensation more satisfying than movement yet), singing praises for Tyria and how much of a steal ANet's pricing is, if taken at face value the amount of content one gets for buying even all three expansions at once (then, naturally, it's more than apparent the game is basically F2P in its monetization, but that's an entirely different can of worms; devil in the details).

Again, I'm not saying there's a good reason to even consider implementing it (especially at this point - same debate as around the suggestion of going sub instead of F2P this far down the road); we're in a "unrealistic feature" topic on purpose, yes?
But if we entertain the hypothetical scenario, we can ride the same current either way: yes, a lot of current players might quit, but many of those who (would've) found the exploration tasteless without any pressure would be more likely to stay (or come back), inevitably forging bonds with other players out of, dare I say, necessity, resulting in tighter interpersonal connections and, ultimately, a reason to stay around that goes beyond the game's framework, which is cited in most "good-bye" posts I've seen as a major or the main cause for people taking breaks/quitting.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

A companion/henchmen sort of system that allows us to have (a few of) our own characters follow our main. We can choose which of these characters is our active PC by swapping between them, just like we swap weapons and pets.

Edited November 29, 2022 by TheLadyOfTheRings.9148

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:26 PM, Vyr.9387 said:

There's no such thing as "a fair fight", and although I'm sure there are people who live for the enjoyment of murdering newbz, they're a very rare breed.
As Bern pointed out - and is actually one of Ventari's tenets, ironically (or, rather, wondrously precisely) enough - hard ground makes sore feet stronger roots. Realistically, sure, people who would fight randoms in the open world just to help them get better at the game are about as numerous as the malicious stabbers from two sentences ago, but, in this case, every such impromptu fight would invariably teach the respawning combatant something.
Perhaps we wouldn't need any tutorials whatsoever after a while, because people would naturally be pushed into exploring their skills, reading their traits... improving overall, which would positively affect basically every part of the (end)game.

  Reveal hidden contents

And the totally legitimate AFK farmers would start hearing the sounds of scythes being sharpened in the distance.

Not saying it should be implemented even if it were as easy as snapping one's fingers.
Saying adversity is not evil incarnate simply because comfort is more immediately delightful.

In truth, if there is one singular thing most closely resembling hell in effect, it, in my eyes, is exactly comfort.
Sweet, silent, slow... like expiring in honey.

The person who made the suggestion was salivating over the idea of sniping people off with Deadeye while their victims were trying to complete a group meta-event. Sorry, but that's not 'teaching people to be better players'. That's just trolling. Not just the specific victim being targeted, but everyone on the map that's trying to do the meta.

If ArenaNet wants people to learn how to better deal with things in open world, they can introduce mechanics in open world for players to have to learn to deal with. Like, say, the Dominion snipers. I'd agree that dipping into PvP can be a great way to learn how to better use a profession's mechanics, and ArenaNet has introduced a range of incentives for people to do so, but - and this is important - it's still something that players can voluntarily choose to do, and because they choose to do so they can make sure they have builds that are oriented towards PvP when they do so. Ultimately, PvE is designed so that the environment itself should provide the desired level of challenge.

[Vyr.9387]

37 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The person who made the suggestion was salivating over the idea of sniping people off with Deadeye while their victims were trying to complete a group meta-event. Sorry, but that's not 'teaching people to be better players'. That's just trolling. Not just the specific victim being targeted, but everyone on the map that's trying to do the meta.

Yep.
And then groups specialized in immediately taking out such people would emerge - like I recall from WoW during World First races, where murdering the other competitors before they as much as reached the raid's entrance had been a popular strategy for quite a while - or the OW people would become much more aware of the game they're (pretending to be) playing, considering everything besides Soo-Won is literally free. Arguably even she, but that fight does require at least a couple of people who could be bothered with putting GW2 on their first monitor.

So it indeed is forcing people to make a change until they beat the presented challenge. Or run away.
As I said, I don't believe many people would go into OW PvP with this particular mindset of being the veteran combat mentor, but the lessons would be there regardless.

You know, ironically enough, specifically rifle Deadeyes have probably the best claim to OW PvP as a means to fulfill the sniper fantasy.
In PvE, OW or instanced, there's too much movement and too much focus on boon sharing in tight groups for long-range static campers to be viable.
PvP of every walk is all about movement - which doesn't make the rifle completely worthless, but it's nothing even remotely close to what the archetypical sniper would do. Much more kitten, though, certainly.
As such, the "one shot, one kill" unseen death playstyle literally requires unaware squishy targets. For example full 'Zerker elementalists peacefully picking flowers.

 

 

57 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

If ArenaNet wants people to learn how to better deal with things in open world, they can introduce mechanics in open world for players to have to learn to deal with. Like, say, the Dominion snipers. I'd agree that dipping into PvP can be a great way to learn how to better use a profession's mechanics, and ArenaNet has introduced a range of incentives for people to do so, but - and this is important - it's still something that players can voluntarily choose to do, and because they choose to do so they can make sure they have builds that are oriented towards PvP when they do so. Ultimately, PvE is designed so that the environment itself should provide the desired level of challenge.

Come on, there's not a chance ANet would ever go through with anything of the OW PvP sort of this magnitude.
They certainly do care about teaching players about Tyria's inner intricacies now, proven by the new tutorial achievements and Cantha's various "training grounds" - although arguments could be and have been made that it's not aggressive enough and it's also a bit late in the third expansion - but, for better and worse, there's been a decade of assuring people sucking at the game is completely fine, as long as you suck in a big enough mutated blob of flailing limbs and neon lights, 'cuz perma pulsing Blindness is OP as all hell; ask any charr or norn wearing a skirt in Winter Wonderland.
Which is ultimately a good thing, because people who don't want - or are unable - to be bothered do have a place to stay.
I utterly despise it by heart, 'cuz comfort's a cold-blooded murderer - which is rather breathtakingly shown in how fervently are its victims fighting the simplest notion of a fathom of an idea that has virtually no chance of becoming reality - but everyone's their own fortune's architect, yes?
Can't tell you what songs to sing, but I sure as hell can sing a couple of mine for you, see if anything gets you dancing!


The snipers in Drizzlewood should without a doubt instantly down people if their projectiles aren't avoided.
Like, six years for them to take a shot, you've got a literal target on top of your head the whole time, and then the bullet hits like a soaking sock.
Guess dragon ice protruding from a firearm only looks cool but packs no serious heat. 🤔

[Serephen.3420]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:08 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

Why are you and so many others afraid of using the formats that are already provided for PvP?  Just because players don't want open world PvP doesn't make them snowflakes.  Here, you show why players don't want it.

Because those kind of players are afraid of fighting against real pvpers and just looking for an easy gank. They are the real snowflakes. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Serephen.3420

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Yep.
And then groups specialized in immediately taking out such people would emerge - like I recall from WoW during World First races, where murdering the other competitors before they as much as reached the raid's entrance had been a popular strategy for quite a while - or the OW people would become much more aware of the game they're (pretending to be) playing, considering everything besides Soo-Won is literally free. Arguably even she, but that fight does require at least a couple of people who could be bothered with putting GW2 on their first monitor.

So it indeed is forcing people to make a change until they beat the presented challenge. Or run away.
As I said, I don't believe many people would go into OW PvP with this particular mindset of being the veteran combat mentor, but the lessons would be there regardless.

So every open world event should be rebalanced to take into account that some unknown proportion of the group needs to be guarding against griefers instead of actually doing the event?

No thanks.

We have game modes that cater for that sort of thing, but PvE is intended as much as possible to be a "you're always happy to see another player" environment. People who want genuine competition can play in the modes that cater for it. Introducing nonconsensual PvP into PvE only serves people with an intent to grief. Just because people can respond to greifers by forming anti-griefing squads doesn't change what it is.

[Tukaram.8256]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:41 AM, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

henchmen

Heroes & henchmen are a major thing I still miss from Guild Wars. If they added them here - they could charge as much as they want for that expansion! 😎

[Vyr.9387]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

So every open world event should be rebalanced to take into account that some unknown proportion of the group needs to be guarding against griefers instead of actually doing the event?

No thanks. 

 

Non sequitur, as nobody as little as suggested such array of changes, and I'm not aware of any concessions along these lines being made in other games or, indeed, in our own WvW environment.

Or anywhere, really. Has every OW event been rebalanced because (Canthan) e-specs blew a hole in the concurrent meta? That being demonstrably a change with a much greater impact. 

 

Regardless, even if we entertain this hypothetical scenario, every bump in the road to obtaining a reward is slowing the player down, frustrates them, and/or outright bars them from acquiring said prize until they figure out how to get past it. In that sense, literally everything that makes a game not suitable for the modern mobile market is griefing, meaning the developers alone have to decide which ways of griefing they're supporting and which ones they don't, because obstacles aren't inherently antagonistic to the player, despite at face value they're nothing but.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Yep.
And then groups specialized in immediately taking out such people would emerge - like I recall from WoW during World First races, where murdering the other competitors before they as much as reached the raid's entrance had been a popular strategy for quite a while - or the OW people would become much more aware of the game they're (pretending to be) playing, considering everything besides Soo-Won is literally free. Arguably even she, but that fight does require at least a couple of people who could be bothered with putting GW2 on their first monitor.

So it indeed is forcing people to make a change until they beat the presented challenge. Or run away.
As I said, I don't believe many people would go into OW PvP with this particular mindset of being the veteran combat mentor, but the lessons would be there regardless.

You know, ironically enough, specifically rifle Deadeyes have probably the best claim to OW PvP as a means to fulfill the sniper fantasy.
In PvE, OW or instanced, there's too much movement and too much focus on boon sharing in tight groups for long-range static campers to be viable.
PvP of every walk is all about movement - which doesn't make the rifle completely worthless, but it's nothing even remotely close to what the archetypical sniper would do. Much more kitten, though, certainly.
As such, the "one shot, one kill" unseen death playstyle literally requires unaware squishy targets. For example full 'Zerker elementalists peacefully picking flowers.

All great except wvw already fills the purpose of faction-based ow pvp.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vyr.9387]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

All great except wvw already fills the purpose of faction-based ow pvp.

 

Of course, but we're not talking about that. 

[HotDelirium.7984]

I don't know if its unrealistic but some sort of Trait Compression feature where you can pick UP to three traits but you don't have to. You still have to pick 3 traits along beach column in total but you could specialize with just one trait meaning you unlock all trait options with no access to 2 other traits. For example, as a mesmer say I want to be an "Illusionist" only so I pick the illusion trait group and get all the traits within it.

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Of course, but we're not talking about that. 

You're talking about ow pvp implementation. OW pvp which is already filled by existance of wvw mode. So you are talking about that.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vyr.9387]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You're talking about ow pvp implementation. OW pvp which is already filled by existance of wvw mode. So you are talking about that.

Nope, we're talking about the pros and cons of said system, because, as I've pointed out in previous posts, we're both participating in a thread titled "Which major, unrealistic feature would you gladly skip an expansion for?" and mostly universally agree there's a higher chance of starting dating Catherine Zeta-Jones than ANet pulling the trigger on OW PvP.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Vyr.9387 said:

Nope, we're talking about the pros and cons of said system, because, as I've pointed out in previous posts, we're both participating in a thread titled "Which major, unrealistic feature would you gladly skip an expansion for?" and mostly universally agree there's a higher chance of starting dating Catherine Zeta-Jones than ANet pulling the trigger on OW PvP.

So what exactly would be a pro of adding that to pve maps over just going to wvw?

[Vyr.9387]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So what exactly would be a pro of adding that to pve maps over just going to wvw?

What wouldn't be?

We can start with the obvious: the absurd amount of new maps the PvP crowd would suddenly gain access to.
Then there's the change of OW atmosphere, where suddenly it wouldn't be the place where old dolyaks go to die.
The "preying upon the innocent" would become a playstyle, while said innocents would start learning new skills thanks to there now being an actual challenge in non-instanced PvE, leading to more people understanding the game's mechanics, eventually boosting both the quality and quantity of endgame participants.
New strong and lasting friendships would form over fighting adversity from the beginning, or, indeed, the community would realize they're not as nice as they pretend to be now that actions start to matter and half of them would invariably flee and not defend each other. A win in either case.
And, naturally, pretty much anything the opponents of the idea in this thread have listed as reasons for not implementing OW PvP could be, from a different perspective, seen as a positive from the proponents' one.
For example Bern's sniper Deadeye suggestion: always bad for the victim, always good for the perpetrator. Depends solely which end of the boomstick the speaker happens to find themselves at.

There's a myriad other things deep in the details, many of which I'm probably not even aware of; these ones are just more or less off the top of my head without too much digging.

[Lucy.3728]

• I'd like to switch the map ID, like GW1 (there you had a drop-down list of open/active map IDs from everywhere in the world).
• And I'd want to change skins to standard gear (like wvw options offer) that are an eyesore or don't fit into the game theme or look outright slutty/too sexualised.
• I'd love to set the game to greyscale but the commander. All the color mess and splash ends in confusion in wvw for me. And maybe I'd get my sister to play GW2, she refused because it's too many colors xD
• I want a wvw linking system that only links servers of my language. I absolutely don't want what Anet wants to do with wvw. Every beta ,so far, was not enjoyable and wvw is my endgame :s

Edited November 25, 2022 by Lucy.3728

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

What wouldn't be?

The whole thing about it not being actually pvp but trying to hunt down people not being in it for the pvp aspect? So... the absolute core of it?  Because anyone interested in ow pvp already joins wvw anyways?

21 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

We can start with the obvious: the absurd amount of new maps the PvP crowd would suddenly gain access to.

Solution to low number of wvw maps is introducing wvw maps. If anet thinks pve maps fit ow pvp idea, they can probably rotate them in. But they won't because they don't fit it. So even simple "rotate pve maps into wvw" would be a better unrealistic feature than opening pve areas for pking.

21 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Then there's the change of OW atmosphere, where suddenly it wouldn't be the place where old dolyaks go to die.

Don't understand this point, need further explanation.

21 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

The "preying upon the innocent" would become a playstyle, while said innocents would start learning new skills thanks to there now being an actual challenge in non-instanced PvE, leading to more people understanding the game's mechanics, eventually boosting both the quality and quantity of endgame participants.

Still, wvw.

21 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

New strong and lasting friendships would form over fighting adversity from the beginning, or, indeed, the community would realize they're not as nice as they pretend to be now that actions start to matter and half of them would invariably flee and not defend each other. A win in either case.

Still, wvw.

21 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

And, naturally, pretty much anything the opponents of the idea in this thread have listed as reasons for not implementing OW PvP could be, from a different perspective, seen as a positive from the proponents' one.

So basically people claiming they want "ow pvp" don't want "pvp", just free targets. They must be doing so well in wvw 🙃

Edited November 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vyr.9387]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The whole thing about it not being actually pvp but trying to hunt down people not being in it for the pvp aspect? So... the absolute core of it?  Because anyone interested in ow pvp already joins wvw anyways?

If it's not PvP just because one side doesn't have a fighting chance, is then OW not considered PvE?
Either way, from my experience in WoW and BD open world combat was very rarely about people going specifically after fights they were sure to win. Somebody felt like going wild, they went wild, unless they met somebody famous, and even then I've seen many take their shots, probably high on hopium the guy/gal was AFK.

 

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Solution to low number of wvw maps is introducing wvw maps. If anet thinks pve maps fit ow pvp idea, they can probably rotate them in. But they won't because they don't fit it. So even simple "rotate pve maps into wvw" would be a better unrealistic feature than opening pve areas for pking.

You're talking about problems with implementation, which, again, we're not talking about, because even the simplest "most people play OW" Freya brought up means ANet would alienate the majority of their playerbase for very little gain.

But "better unrealistic features"? Come on, that's like trying to objectively rank beauty.
 

 

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Don't understand this point, need further explanation.

 
Currently the OW is scoffed at by basically everybody of the "upper echelons" of content enjoyers. And for a good reason, too, considering it requires absolutely no thought, skill, or even attention whatsoever. In other words, it reminds me of a graveyard.
With PvP enabled, the pace would quicken to the point where being good at the OW stuff might become a well-respected endgame playstyle even among the elitists.
 

 

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So basically people claiming they want "ow pvp" don't want "pvp", just free targets. They must be doing so well in wvw 🙃

Could very well be the case; pretty sure there are people getting hard for asserting their dominance over critters well past the thousand needed for the Indiscriminate Slayer achiev.
But it's certainly not everyone, or even any major group among the OW PvP proponents, I imagine, just like not every PvE player is automatically making guides beneath the Snow Crows banner.


Ultimately, fighting in the OW just has a different feel to it, which shouldn't be so freely discarded.
The entire setup might be similar to WvW in many aspects, but the final experience is leagues away, and gamers have demonstrated time and time again that personal enjoyment counts much more than cold numbers.

[Tukaram.8256]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So what exactly would be a pro of adding that to pve maps over just going to wvw?

It is just the same thing PvPers are always looking for... fresh meat.

They simply cannot understand that a majority of players have zero interest it their play style.  They keep saying to use a PvP switch... we already have 2: the PvP lobby and WvW.  If there are not enough players there, that simply means not enough players are interested. There is zero benefit to ruining the PvE maps with it. But at least this thread is "unrealistic feature" and that is a very unrealistic request ha ha 😎

[Hashberry.4510]

I used to play on WoW old pvp servers, not because I enjoy or am good at pvp, but the added danger did make it more engaging. It gets old though and certainly wore out its charm for me.

[Ashen.2907]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:53 PM, Serephen.3420 said:

Because those kind of players are afraid of fighting against real pvpers and just looking for an easy gank. They are the real snowflakes. 

This.

The option to PvP against others who have the personal skills, build, etc specific to the needs of such fights already exist. What the snowflake is looking for is the opportunity to safely kill player characters who arent fighting back and then come to the forums to cry for nerfs (always to someone else's build) if someone actually counters him.

[Hashberry.4510]

Open world skiff costume type pvp could be fun, get those kids to man yer water balloon canons.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I'd change the way of cool skin acquisition from things you buy to something that drops from specific encounters. The game feels more like a second job in the sense that I do a bunch of stuff, liquidate it, and go to a merchant or tp or whatever and buy what I want. Something about this just feels too... normal life for me. It's not a bad thing, but I prefer to have that feeling of getting a rare drop and feeling like I won the lottery or find some hidden treasure.

[Aelin.9317]

I just want a plain ol horse mount ^^ 

[Baddxian.3851]

While not unrealistic by any means, and certainly not anything I'd push back an expac for, I would like to see town clothes (indeed, any unreleased outfit from any source) added to the gem store.  And swim suits...