What GW2 really lacks to me (in comparison to WoW)

[michixlol.9340]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What classes/builds do you play?

 

My only classes on 80 are necromancer and elementalist. My main right now is elementalist. I feel the class has a lot to master and I like that. 

[The Boz.2038]

5 minutes ago, VanDBellen.4913 said:

 

My only classes on 80 are necromancer and elementalist. My main right now is elementalist. I feel the class has a lot to master and I like that. 

Both of those can find great use in the Xiuquatl legendary scepter...

[michixlol.9340]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

A lot of WoW players are like that. They play for a while. Then they stop and come back when the next expansion hits. 

You don't have your hand held as much as in WoW perhaps. But there's lots to do, it's just that you get to make the decision yourself.

Though the leveing may be easier here (I'll have to take your word for that), there is the mastery system that follows and keeps you busy for quite a while.

Better loot in this game means cosmetics and you get more powerful here by mastering the combat system. That makes quite a difference when you do this. There is no gear treadmill with the illusion of getting more powerful.

There is very little vertical progression in GW2 and much more horizontal progression. I get that that's not for everybody though.

Well, like I said, you're used to a game holding your hand and guiding you. This game doesn't do that as much but that doesn't mean the goals aren't there. As someone mentioned just look at the achievements. Also because there are many rewards for completing them.

For me the long-term goals are two-fold. First of all get a complete set of legendaries. Not all legendaries but get one set of legendary trinkets, armors and weapons that I use. 

Secondly the aim for me is to get "perfect" looks for all of my characters (I have 18 currently). Some of the skins are hard to get and that makes them long-term goals. One of the skins I want to get is the Radiant Backguard which you can get at 39K achievement points. So yeah, definitely a long-term goal.

It depends on what you want, but I think that the eternal gear treadmill with ever higher levels and new gear tiers is an illusion of power that you happen to believe in because you are used to it. But all it is, is an illusion. It works as long as you believe it, but once you see through it, it loses its value. At least it did to me.

 

 

I didn't want to say GW2 is worse than WoW. I think in GW2 there is much more love of the developers to feel, compared to modern WoW. To me GW2 is the best MMO I know, better than ESO and modern WoW and definitely better than Final Fantasy. WoW Classic maybe would fit me more, but I've already played through all of it. I'm done with WoW. GW2 is great! But one has to adapt. And it proves to be quite difficult sometimes. And my biggest problem is to find myself a long term goal to play for and not to just do anything. A little bit of progress feeling would be nice. And that's my problem, I don't really feel the progress. 

 

But it's true, the game is great for a gatherer! And I like to gather. But I kinda feel left alone mit all the stuff there is. I always love the halloween event, because there you have targets. Like getting the clock tower done. Or getting a number of these pumpkins carved. Or revealing the story behind the mad king. You have distinct aims there. And I really like that. Also the trying something over and over again, sometimes, not all of the time, I really like it. But when the event is over I'm a bit lost again. 

 

About the endless gear treadmill.. It was just satisfying for example if you are tank in a raid, first it's almost not possible to hold against a boss, but with the new gear you get it done. Also with skill, but it wasn't impossible anymore. I like this feel of progress. Maybe I do those dungeons, I can choose which, but one of those to get the gear to get to the next level of content. To get everything at once is... well.. there is no content as reward. I like to work myself up in something. And yes then the next expansion hits and all is "lost", but you don't feel it so much, because you get a lot of new good looking armor and a new world to see and new story and you can work yourself up to get against the new bosses once more. 
One could say, leveling is the same, a lot of people don't like it. But it's a goal to get up in level and I really liked that about WoW, that every level seems like progress. And thus I loved leveling. Or still love it. In GW2 you even get pretty much all of your abilities very early. The learning curve is very steep. But I don't want to criticize that. 

[michixlol.9340]

1 hour ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

Op if you want to get some objectives, this is what i do (may or may not help)  go to the achievements panel and search with a random 3 letters, then look at the achievements and rewards and see if anything appeals to you, rinse and repeat.  If any do appeal, then click on it so it becomes a sticky on your objectives view in game. Objective sweety shop 🙂

You can obviously do same for your target legendary etc.  I run with about 15 on the go at any one time and regulary shuffle the order to being my current favourite to the top of the list. (click on achievement on game screen takes you to summary view, you can then drag order around in there

 

Nice tip ty!

[michixlol.9340]

9 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Both of those can find great use in the Xiuquatl legendary scepter...

 

good to know, thx^^

[Hashberry.4510]

With WoW’s classic options, it has sort of come full circle on gear resets. Funny old world.

[Drall.2419]

I understand setting goals.  There are many you can pick from as other have mentioned.  Here are the ones my wife and I set for ourselves:

Level to 80

Do full story and all expansions story (we did it on a second character to have continuity, first time we jumped all over)

Do map completion on every map

Do the "return to" achievements (you get a legendary trinket and lots of currency for the skyscale next)
Get the skyscale

Do all the dungeons and paths at least once.

Do all the strikes at least once. 
Get to 100 in fractals. Still working on it.
Craft a legendary weapon.  This is not a short term thing. Still working on it.

 

I think next will be raids and CM stikes, and more WvW. 

Along the way I leveled and equipped 4 builds before landing on a main.

I did find that my character does get more powerful over time.  The difference is not because of gear, but rather because I improve the way I play the character.  I am leveling me, if that makes any sense.

 

Hope you find your path!

[michixlol.9340]

42 minutes ago, Drall.2419 said:

I understand setting goals.  There are many you can pick from as other have mentioned.  Here are the ones my wife and I set for ourselves:

Level to 80

Do full story and all expansions story (we did it on a second character to have continuity, first time we jumped all over)

Do map completion on every map

Do the "return to" achievements (you get a legendary trinket and lots of currency for the skyscale next)
Get the skyscale

Do all the dungeons and paths at least once.

Do all the strikes at least once. 
Get to 100 in fractals. Still working on it.
Craft a legendary weapon.  This is not a short term thing. Still working on it.

 

I think next will be raids and CM stikes, and more WvW. 

Along the way I leveled and equipped 4 builds before landing on a main.

I did find that my character does get more powerful over time.  The difference is not because of gear, but rather because I improve the way I play the character.  I am leveling me, if that makes any sense.

 

Hope you find your path!

 

Very nice insight! Thank you!

[Nico.9361]

You can play WoW instead, u know?
We don't need item level in gw2. I feel like new players enjoy the fact that you don't need to grind for gear forever to catch up and jump into raids, strikes etc.

[AliamRationem.5172]

17 hours ago, VanDBellen.4913 said:

I know, GW2 is a totally different style of MMO. And it does a lot of things differently from WoW, some you could like, some you don't. And I also don't intend to form this game into something I like and all of you don't. But I know quite a few people that have loved this game for some time and then suddenly stopped playing. For me it was like this since 2016 too. I started, stopped. After some years I started again, loved it, but stopped. And to me it is an aspect of the game that I would call..... it's a little bit too sandbox.

 

Take this with a grain of salt, sandbox is great! Really great. In Tyria you can do pretty much everything and get something for yourself. That's super! In some way... because, I think what the problem is, especially, if you don't have other people to play with, that you don't get those.. long-term goals. It's nice to just log in, do a little bit of roaming, do a few hearts, events, listen to the very awesome world, maybe do an arena or if you've got a bit more time, do a dungeon or something... it's very nice, if you have just some time and ya.. just want to do anything. But I personally figured out for myself, after some time I just don't know what my aim is. 
 

In WoW you have goals.

1. First goal is to get to max level, in GW2, there is much less effort to do this. But I like to level, because I always have something to focus on and to do the things for I do. 
2. Then you know, when you do dungeons in WoW you get better loot and some kind of tokens to get even better loot. In GW2 you get some stuff, but.. what for? I mean, sure it's something. But do you need it in an aim for anything else? To get stronger? Not really. Mats? You can get somewhere else too. So you can have an achievement if you gather them? Hm maybe yes, that's a point. But is it enough? 
3. In WoW you want to get stronger and stronger and you feel it, you feel, some raids or dungeons or whatever just die more easily or you don't die as easily. In PvP you can feel if your armor is better. In GW2, when you have exotic armor, there isn't that much in view to get. In WoW you know, you have to go there and do this to get better armor, in PvP and as well in PvE. And you feel the new armor. At least it was like that previously. 

 

Now in GW2, where do I get these long term goals?

The living story is nice, I love story and lore! And listen to everything precisely. But the things you get for completing parts is.. meh. It's just not necessary to do it. I could literally just walk around and gather and do hearts and get .. maybe even better stuff in the same time. I didn't recognize I'd get a special skin, a mini, a mount, some stronger armor than I have.. just something to store and sell and dismantle. The story is at least a goal I can always follow. But besides this...

 

I can do anything all the time. But I can't get myself a goal. Something big. Something like becoming stronger, or to become the best or some motivation to find myself a team and guild to accomplish something, because why accomplish it? I'd really want to have something to .. do something for. The long-term goal. The aim I do everything I do for. Or to do something specific for. I just feel lost in this game. Over and over again. And I am not a twinker. I want to play my main and to develop him. To experience with him. And to work for a greater goal.

But I think this game makes it pretty difficult. 

 

 

I just needed to get this out. I really like this game. It has a lot of really special things. And the lore is awesome. But everything seems so.. worthless. 

I think GW2 does have a bit of a problem with feeling rather aimless, as if it's up to the player to choose their own adventure and make the most of it.  There often isn't a driving need to do anything as relatively little of the content features any sort of linear progression.  Also, as you point out, rewards in the form of tiny amounts of materials and gold don't feel very rewarding.

It's not all roses over in WoW, though.  As fun as WoW's PvP can be (I really miss WSG!), I think having gear progression in a competitive game mode is absolutely crazy.  Who the heck wants to fight an opponent's item level?  GW2 definitely got that right.  

There's also the gear treadmill issue.  One of the biggest problems I had as a raider and guild leader back in my WoW days was turnover due to burnout and associated loot drama.  It was a constant struggle dealing with players who were unable to handle their disappointment with losing that coveted drop to someone else. 

We'd constantly have to take on and train up new raiders every time new content dropped as well because inevitably some of our people would burn out from having worked so hard to gear up (and worse gear up alts or even other people's alts!) only to find themselves back at entry level and having to do it all over again.  I think there's a point at which it becomes a bit of a chore for people.

 

[Arnox.5128]

I think we've all cleared what OP was talking about. Now what the REAL problem is is that GW2 PvP is just not as good as WoW Classic's PvP at all. World PvP in WoW was super fun and added some danger and excitement to the world. My only problem with it was that you weren't allowed to chat with the other side for some weird kitten reason.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

OP listed everything I dislike about WoW and why I stopped playing it long ago, as plus points. kitten? You don't get stronger in WoW, you just get less weak. Every expansion is the same - your power level is reset, your old gear is garbage, ha ha time to rush to max and grind again. GW2 neatly sidesteps that nonsense and puts the emphasis firmly on player skill with a dash of map completion. Also let's be perfectly honest, even the most heated argument on these forums or in game in GW2, utterly pales in comparison to the wretched rage soup that passes as discourse in the WoW community.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

6 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I think we've all cleared what OP was talking about. Now what the REAL problem is is that GW2 PvP is just not as good as WoW Classic's PvP at all. World PvP in WoW was super fun and added some danger and excitement to the world. My only problem with it was that you weren't allowed to chat with the other side for some weird kitten reason.

 

I played WoW Classic for a bit to see if it truly lived up to the rose-tinted window I was comparing it to. It did. Whatever magic WoW had back in the day was not just fond memories, it was a genuinely good game and still is. It's sort of funny now because the only thing better in the newest WoW expansions are the cinematics and a couple of graphical effects. The game probably peaked at Wrath, but even then... I hated Arenas, dailies, crit reduction in pvp etc. Maybe I only liked Wrath because it wasn't Burning Crusade. In any case, I still hold GW2 far higher than even Classic for PvP, because GW2's action mechanics put emphasis on positioning and active damage avoidance instead of simply range and LOS.

[Arnox.5128]

9 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

I played WoW Classic for a bit to see if it truly lived up to the rose-tinted window I was comparing it to. It did. Whatever magic WoW had back in the day was not just fond memories, it was a genuinely good game and still is. It's sort of funny now because the only thing better in the newest WoW expansions are the cinematics and a couple of graphical effects. The game probably peaked at Wrath, but even then... I hated Arenas, dailies, crit reduction in pvp etc. Maybe I only liked Wrath because it wasn't Burning Crusade. In any case, I still hold GW2 far higher than even Classic for PvP, because GW2's action mechanics put emphasis on positioning and active damage avoidance instead of simply range and LOS.

The core combat of GW2 is incredibly good, yes, but the problem is uh... Everything else surrounding it. Specifically, ANet is not properly supporting PvP at ALL and hasn't for years. WvW is finally getting some attention, but even then, who knows when they're going to finish that. So, in the meantime, WoW Classic gets the PvP crown (and also Guild Wars 1) until ANet finally gets their act together and sorts out PvP for GW2.

Oh, also, another thing WoW Classic did really kitten well was how good it felt to progress in levels. Guild Wars 1 had this in spades as well. Guild Wars 2 though is SO endgame heavy, and there also isn't a lot of skills available to players in comparison to Guild Wars 1 and WoW Classic, so while the sense of progression in Guild Wars 2 is definitely there, the progression doesn't really come out in my opinion until you finally get all the tools and you both start making builds and git gud at running them. Both of those things take a while to master and is where GW2 progression actually lies.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Arnox.5128

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, VanDBellen.4913 said:

I didn't want to say GW2 is worse than WoW.

Sorry, if anything I wrote gave you the impression that I thought you were saying that then that was not intended.

[Randulf.7614]

Sometimes playing the game is the reward

[Ashen.2907]

Weird, I think that the long term goals in GW2 can be a bit too long term. It took me years to get all three weights of legendary armor for example. It will take years more to fill out my selection of legendary weapons, trinkets, runes, sigils, and backpieces. 

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

The core combat of GW2 is incredibly good, yes, but the problem is uh... Everything else surrounding it. Specifically, ANet is not properly supporting PvP at ALL and hasn't for years. WvW is finally getting some attention, but even then, who knows when they're going to finish that. So, in the meantime, WoW Classic gets the PvP crown (and also Guild Wars 1) until ANet finally gets their act together and sorts out PvP for GW2.

Oh, also, another thing WoW Classic did really kitten well was how good it felt to progress in levels. Guild Wars 1 had this in spades as well. Guild Wars 2 though is SO endgame heavy, and there also isn't a lot of skills available to players in comparison to Guild Wars 1 and WoW Classic, so while the sense of progression in Guild Wars 2 is definitely there, the progression doesn't really come out in my opinion until you finally get all the tools and you both start making builds and git gud at running them. Both of those things take a while to master and is where GW2 progression actually lies.

Yea they tried going the pvp route at start of the game have alot of tournaments with cash prizes.

It failed misserably

Edited December 9, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Gerry.7964]

At the end of the day this is basically just a matter of preference. Other folks have pointed out vertical vs horizontal progression and neither is inherently better/worse. Vertical progression is definitely more overall appealing due to there being a more straightforward path to take. From what I've read OSRS and FF14 are the only MMOs thats really been growing in active players and partially due to a good implementation of vertical progression with some horizontal sprinkled in. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Gerry.7964
typos

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, Gerry.7964 said:

At the end of the day this is basically just a matter of preference. Other folks have pointed out vertical vs horizontal progression and neither is inherently better/worse. Vertical progression is definitely more overall appealing due to there being a more straightforward path to take. From what I've read OSRS and FF14 are the only MMOs thats really been growing in active players and partially due to a good implementation of vertical progression with some horizontal sprinkled in. 

 

Agree vertical and horizontal simply being different game formats that appeal to different people,  but you lost it on vertical being more appealing.  Vertical is more appealing to those that prefer and want vertical progression, vice versa for horizontal.  FF14 has grown as it offers a less divisive and cynical vertical progression game than wow, the latter of which has pretty much fouled its own nest.

Vertical appeals to those that love the gear chase and meter wars, horizontal appeals to those that want a rich end game that is not centred around this.  Plenty space for both in the market.

Its very possible horizontal appeals to older players in general where vertical appeals more to younger players, due to a mixture of evolving perspective on life and commitments, but that's just a guess.

Edited December 9, 2022 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Arnox.5128]

10 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea they tried going the pvp route at start of the game have alot of tournaments with cash prizes.

It failed misserably

You don't start the tournaments until you have a good PvP base. GW2 does not have a good PvP base.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

18 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

a different MMO (actually labelled as COORPG).

That was Guild Wars, not Guild Wars 2. 

[otto.5684]

I think you mentioned many of the reasons I prefer GW2 over other MMOs. Getting on an endless gear grind and leveling from scratch is anything but fun.

[AliamRationem.5172]

15 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Sometimes playing the game is the reward

The gameplay needs to be rewarding in either case in order for the game to be worth playing.  That doesn't speak to the question of whether or not the rewards are rewarding.  While horizontal and vertical progression both have their pros and cons, arguably one of the negatives of horizontal progression is that the rewards feel lackluster.  You never get that lift of finding upgrades.  It's mostly just small amounts of gold so you can buy something later.  It's hard for that to feel rewarding.

[AliamRationem.5172]

15 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Weird, I think that the long term goals in GW2 can be a bit too long term. It took me years to get all three weights of legendary armor for example. It will take years more to fill out my selection of legendary weapons, trinkets, runes, sigils, and backpieces. 

Unlike a vertical progression game, once you acquire legendary gear there is nothing else to acquire in terms of gear.  That's likely the reason legendary gear is so long-term.  Once you get there you may find yourself wondering what to do next?  That's the aimless feel of horizontal progression.  You're always having to come up with your own goal.  The game doesn't provide the linear structure that vertical progression does in the form of "do this to get the gear to do that" and so on.