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I just don't enjoy it anymore


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After nearly a decade, I think I'm giving up on Elementalist. This is a complaint thread, but I'd also like to once again point out the problems that players keep pointing out yet somehow get repeatedly ignored.

 

Tempest - You were told again and again about the issues with HealAlac Tempest, particularly how easy it is to interrupt and how getting interrupted effectively ruins your ability to give Alacrity. Having even a single overload interrupted results in not being able to upkeep Alacrity even on 100% boon duration in PvE, which is a sad state compared even to AlacRen. This is on top of giving up all healing outside of water attunement in order to carry Alac in the first place.

 

Catalyst - The hammer issue has been brought up a million times, but you keep adjusting damage to the orbs instead of addressing the issue that the orbs are a bad mechanic and also indirectly make the class less viable on other weapons. This is combined with the fact that you have to sacrifice so much to give boons, and still maintain fewer boons with lower uptimes than a Firebrand pushing a bunch of mantras and shouts.

 

Weaver - Seriously, what does it do? The only reason anyone plays Weaver over Catalyst is because the rotation is simpler, but it lacks any utility whatsoever outside of hitting things and thus is one of the least versatile classes in the game, reminding me of Vindicator. It has lots of buttons, that's it.

 

I get it, Ele is super strong in PvP right now, but its still making huge sacrifices for literally everything in PvE while still dying in just a few hits. All the other classes walk around with literally 2-3 times the effective health and make even less effort to perform most of these tasks.

 

Some of them even come down to "push some buttons while doing everything". and that's just become seriously frustrating for players who expect that piano gameplay gets concert results.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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I don't think I'm giving up on elementalist in the grand scheme of things but I don't consider it a top pick most of the time in PvE, especially for alacrity. I still play it during  assistance of random training groups as a tempest on KC/CA due to the Rebound utility. It also tends to play closest to the WvW variants which I play regularly. Alacrity is definitely janky though regardless of mode and mutually exclusive to aura healing which is a large issue. Scepter auto power damage outside of fire attunement is also severely lacking in this regard. As far as DPS goes, the largest usability improvement would be greater consistency on both lightning orb and Overload Air especially if there's only one target. (This would also improve power alacrity.) Per benchmarkers there's a variance of thousands depending on hitbox size: ~33-38K. Recent scepter buffs improved consistency for DPS variants running it.

This (lightning orb variance) was last highlighted by Vallun this past month as far as PVE:

Spoiler

Power Benchmark:

 


Weaver is in a weird spot right now. The damage is finally actually somewhat worthy relative to other specializations (both power and condi meta use two attunements) given its fragility and I feel Arenanet is shifting it into a mold of ele's condi spec. That was already the case before recent scepter improvements : in PVP you saw fire (condi/burn) and water weavers. Case in point is even condi staff weaver is a possible PVE condi build. There's still usability to be had: the major improvement to sword could be easier might generation on par with other classes , better auto in water to make it less penalizing to resustain in PVE, and improved mobility (at least for PVE). Scepter condi weaver doesn't have this problem technically and the Dragon's Tooth tracking made damage more reliable. Pyromancer's Puissance which was once a common WvW staff trait should really be looked at again for weavers since might is lost in such a large amount yet is required on meta power builds for Power Overwhelming ; though it might be overlooked because of prior Fire Weavers in PVP.

Catalyst lacks consistency which is compounded by the EE stack "all or nothing" problem but also Empowering Auras never were changed despite the auras from other people no longer counting. Energy is still sort of a hackjob in terms of concept and the UI: it is double gating jade sphere behind energy and cooldown. Unlike some people claiming that catalyst is overpowered, I don't think the might stack and random baseline boons you get on untraited jade sphere are extraordinary (might, resolution, fury, prot).  This is exacerbated in PVP due to 10s jade sphere cooldown and innate quickness (on jade sphere in air) but you have to remember that PVP type builds running arcane put out similar type of boons (might, swiftness, regen, prot) anyway. The main difference is in PVP you get aura on combo and then PVP players run stability on auras which means additional stability (and cleanse while running fire traitline) allowing Hurricane of Pain to actually channel in a competitive environment; hammer orbs have 0.25 coefficient possibly to make up for the 0.01 coefficient on jade sphere in competitive modes. The hammer orbs in PVP and jade sphere in PVE more or less have a swapped damage role (as jade sphere does damage in PVE).  Lastly, because of the way elemental empowerment also affects expertise, concentration, vitality, and toughness it is abnormally improving stats relative to other professions: if you look at a merged soulbeast for example it only gains +225 ferocity from beastmastery traitline (when merged), +75 for all other stats, and majority of profession traits only affect one stat for +240 at best.

As far as a PVE boon support, since the quickness is applied only on air attunement and air on hammer is underwhelming other than Hurricane of Pain : it isn't up to par with other quickness providers unless you are able to run minimum boon duration. In most cases you are better off running firebrand , scrapper , or herald. StM chrono is more intuitive as well. as shattering is innate to mesmer. I think it's also important to mention that while hammer has 600 range on fire and air, that it isn't actually 600 range because only Hurricane of Pain , Shock Blast (more for CC to generate E.E.), Surging Flames (line attack), and Triple Sear (position influenced damage since it's three AoEs centered on the targeted location) have range. Meanwhile Grand Finale is 800 range so hammer is all over the place.

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Ele is a sometimes a seasonal class , sometimes a weekly class , it is op for 1week then got the nerf hammer right in the face , then fall in the "meh" meta class for 1 month , then come back for 3-4 days then gets nerfed again .

i have played a lot of games and i never saw modification and counter modification happening so often in a limited time on a single class , this class will be forever played by a little % of the community able to perform with pve wise , it's definitly designed for pvp and wvw , not for pve (for the most of us) 

I just gave up on dps ele specs , i just hope for a tempest heal complet overhaul , especialy alacrity generator like op said , and more healing accessibilty , for it is actually the most useless healer of the game ( only good point is boon extension ).

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I'm salty at the mismatch between fantasy and reality for the class as a whole. I like the theory behind the Catalyst kit, but I really don't want to play another bruiser character. I have Warrior and Guardian already. If I don't want to use Hammer, that elite spec may as well not exist. Elementalists are built like a ranged class but only excel when they willingly cough up that range because too many traits and abilities require enemies to be near. They don't have the flexibility that one might think because they pay too much for it; boon application is spread thin, heals spread thin, benefits of traitlines are often too limited. Feels like you can only ever almost play the elementalist you want, no matter what elementalist you want.

 

There's no real reason for Tempest to feel so jank. It's a easy to use and one can get value from it with minimal fuss, but once you play it a while, it feels quite cumbersome at times. I didn't realize how much so until I unearthed my Warrior (Zerk & Spellbreaker) and Guardian (Firebrand).

The traits feel like they were designed by someone paranoid that Elementalists would take over the Earth. Tempest's damage trait is for 7 seconds and you need to give up Alacrity for it. That needs to be 15 seconds, you're a Tempest with goofy range on your overloads, and you don't provide Alacrity.

Elementalists don't have number problems, really, they have functional problems that numeric boosts are disguising.

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Ele is in quite a decent spot atm in my opinion compared to last year. 

For PvE:

Lack of uptime on alac uptime on HAT is mostly a skill issue (you can easily get some self stabi and you can stack up to ~200% alac uptime if you use overloads on cd (which can help you out whenever you've got no time to finish an overload).

If you can properly play cweaver or cata you're in the top 2 dps in like 90% of the encounters

Qcata is actually pretty decent right now, especially when used as an defensive boon support (perma protection, resolution, vigor and aegis every ~12 seconds. 

Even staff pweaver is pretty decent right now. Very easy rotation and can bench like 35k i believe. 

 

For WvW:

2 very powerful roam builds atm (hammer and sc/f cata). 

Nerfs to stabi and boonrip almost always result in staff Weaver getting a relative buff. Very strong in pug groups right now and has some usage for guildgraids aswell. 

Htemp quite popular aswell atm. Has gotten a big healing buff on elemental bastion aswell

 

For PvP:

Hammer cata, sc/f, tank temp are all in a great spot atm (and fire Weaver is also pretty decent). 

 

That being said, ele unfortunately still has quite some long lasting problems that makes the class kinda awkward on specific boss/WvW encounter. 

 

I can recommend trying out PvE spellbreaker for any ele player that likes to play power sw/d Weaver and is looking for another class/is fed up with the current state of the elementalist. Spellbreaker quite literally is everything the ele community has asked for atm. It has: similar dps & playstyle to pweaver, amazing breakbar damage, lots of surviveability, access to some amazing utilities & elites (defiance stance, shake it off, MoD, rez banner), can easily switch to quick (provides easy reliable quick uptime), access to perma stability at the cost of only a small amount of dps, provides meaningful Boons as dps (you dont even need a dedicated Qdps if you're running 4 spellbreakers in a party) and to top it off its probably the best boonrip ingame. Spellbreaker is quite literally pweaver on steroids. It outclasses it in almost every single possible way atm. 

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4 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Ele is in quite a decent spot atm in my opinion compared to last year. 

For PvE:

Lack of uptime on alac uptime on HAT is mostly a skill issue (you can easily get some self stabi and you can stack up to ~200% alac uptime if you use overloads on cd (which can help you out whenever you've got no time to finish an overload).

If you can properly play cweaver or cata you're in the top 2 dps in like 90% of the encounters

Qcata is actually pretty decent right now, especially when used as an defensive boon support (perma protection, resolution, vigor and aegis every ~12 seconds. 

Even staff pweaver is pretty decent right now. Very easy rotation and can bench like 35k i believe. 

 

For WvW:

2 very powerful roam builds atm (hammer and sc/f cata). 

Nerfs to stabi and boonrip almost always result in staff Weaver getting a relative buff. Very strong in pug groups right now and has some usage for guildgraids aswell. 

Htemp quite popular aswell atm. Has gotten a big healing buff on elemental bastion aswell

 

For PvP:

Hammer cata, sc/f, tank temp are all in a great spot atm (and fire Weaver is also pretty decent). 

 

That being said, ele unfortunately still has quite some long lasting problems that makes the class kinda awkward on specific boss/WvW encounter. 

 

I can recommend trying out PvE spellbreaker for any ele player that likes to play power sw/d Weaver and is looking for another class/is fed up with the current state of the elementalist. Spellbreaker quite literally is everything the ele community has asked for atm. It has: similar dps & playstyle to pweaver, amazing breakbar damage, lots of surviveability, access to some amazing utilities & elites (defiance stance, shake it off, MoD, rez banner), can easily switch to quick (provides easy reliable quick uptime), access to perma stability at the cost of only a small amount of dps, provides meaningful Boons as dps (you dont even need a dedicated Qdps if you're running 4 spellbreakers in a party) and to top it off its probably the best boonrip ingame. Spellbreaker is quite literally pweaver on steroids. It outclasses it in almost every single possible way atm. 

What vitally important utility slots are you sacrificing for Stability? The only allied Stability boon is one stack on a high cooldown, which means you need to take personal skills. Are you giving up Might generation from Shouts or permanent Regeneration and Vigor from auras and using the overload trait?

 

The duration of Alacrity on 100% boon duration is 14 seconds. Overloads have a cast time of 4 seconds and you need at least 5 seconds to be able to overload after attunment swapping after the first overload, which means the leftover Alacrity duration is 5 seconds assuming a perfect swap, on a build that has already kitten itself to provide one boon (all other Tempest boons require only a low boon duration).

 

If you can reliably have Quickness e.g you're playing in a proper group in instanced content and not in a pug group, solo, open-world, or any other situation, then it gets slightly better. On top of this, while it does stack up over time, that's assuming a long fight which doesn't occur in Fractals, only in raids and strikes, and even a single interrupt will eat all remaining time and possibly even go into the negative.

 

There's been a dozen threads about it, and its been discussed to death.

 

I love these posts that are like "I know you've played this a super long time, but trust me its a skill issue" and then proceed to talk about what a class is like in a vaccum instead of asking players what it actually feels like to play it. Even an Ele main won't be able to understand how others feel about it.

 

For example, I would say Catalyst is the most clunky class in the game, and others might say "Top DPS THO". If that's how it worked, we'd all be running Untamed, but we're not.

 

I switched my main to Bladesworn precisely because its just as tricky to play as Ele, but you actually get a payoff. There's a reward at the end of your effort, which is all anyone ever asked for for Elementalist, but some people seem to think just having the same payoff as other classes for several times the effort is acceptible. Its not acceptible to be a downstate meme so you can be one tier below HAM and FB (even after the nerfs), or move up a single DPS slot when no one really cares what position you're in anyway.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

What vitally important utility slots are you sacrificing for Stability? The only allied Stability boon is one stack on a high cooldown, which means you need to take personal skills. Are you giving up Might generation from Shouts or permanent Regeneration and Vigor from auras and using the overload trait?

 

The duration of Alacrity on 100% boon duration is 14 seconds. Overloads have a cast time of 4 seconds and you need at least 5 seconds to be able to overload after attunment swapping after the first overload, which means the leftover Alacrity duration is 5 seconds assuming a perfect swap, on a build that has already kitten itself to provide one boon (all other Tempest boons require only a low boon duration).

 

If you can reliably have Quickness e.g you're playing in a proper group in instanced content and not in a pug group, solo, open-world, or any other situation, then it gets slightly better. On top of this, while it does stack up over time, that's assuming a long fight which doesn't occur in Fractals, only in raids and strikes, and even a single interrupt will eat all remaining time and possibly even go into the negative.

 

There's been a dozen threads about it, and its been discussed to death.

 

I love these posts that are like "I know you've played this a super long time, but trust me its a skill issue" and then proceed to talk about what a class is like in a vaccum instead of asking players what it actually feels like to play it. Even an Ele main won't be able to understand how others feel about it.

 

For example, I would say Catalyst is the most clunky class in the game, and others might say "Top DPS THO". If that's how it worked, we'd all be running Untamed, but we're not.

 

I switched my main to Bladesworn precisely because its just as tricky to play as Ele, but you actually get a payoff. There's a reward at the end of your effort, which is all anyone ever asked for for Elementalist, but some people seem to think just having the same payoff as other classes for several times the effort is acceptible. Its not acceptible to be a downstate meme so you can be one tier below HAM and FB (even after the nerfs), or move up a single DPS slot when no one really cares what position you're in anyway.

 

For alac, you can quite easily get to 100% boon duration without to much effort so it lasts for 14 seconds. You didnt take a couple of factors into consideration when discussing the alac uptime. Yes time on singularity is 6 seconds and casting time is 4 sec, but this is influenced by quick/alac aswell. 6*0.8+4*0.66=7.44 is therefore a more appropriate time needed to overload. On top of that you'll get extra duration from sandsquall which is another 3 sec/25 sec. So total amount of output you can do is (14.0/7.44+3/25)*100%=200% alac uptime. there's no class that comes even close to that uptime on alac/quick unless you invest a crapload of resources into it (and even then most cant). 

 

for stabi:you got personal stabi on overload earth, party wide on EotS, and an aegis on aftershock. Alongside the potential of up to 200% alac uptime that should be more then enough for 95% of the fights. 

Incase it still isn't enough you can drop out your regen/vigor on aura's. You lose some party vigor, so what. Never heard of people complaining about a lack of vigor uptime in squad anyways (unlike alac). 

 

Sure the HAT is relatively worse in fractals then in strikes and raids, but it aint to bad. 90% of that problem comes from a lack of stabi anyways, not a lack of alac uptime. If you either use harmonious conduit or have some extra stabi support from the rest of the group its just fine. It certainly doesn't beat HfB (no one beats the HfB in fractals), but it definitely beats a druid.

 

most ele's that struggle with alac uptime simply make stupid mistakes. Downtime in burst dps is often not being used to pump out some overloads, sandsquall not being used on cd, ele's running dragonstorm  while not swapping traits (no harmonious conduit) and getting upset 80% of their overloads need to be canceled due to knockback. Ele's using overloads on start of encounter of fraenir of jormag and get surprised they get interupted, quickly swap attunements and get interupted again because of failing the jump. Overloading on VG as tank even though the blue fields are about to spawn, getting hit by sloths groundpound, missing jumps on Samarog, not casting your overloads directly after deimos's aoe attack etc etc. Sure there are quite some annoying factors that other classes dont have to deal with, but you've also got alot of extra room to work with due to the high uptime%. All these examples are no example of inherent flawed class mechanics. They are examples of abit more complicated fight mechanics that can easily be overcome by proper gameplay. 

 

Im not saying that the current state of ele is perfect right now, but it is doing alot better then last year. There are core class mechanics that need to be changed (for all ele elite specs), but these problems arent for ele only. Every class/Espec has their own struggle (some abit more then others though unfortunately). Currently ele has decent performance across all gamemodes and can fulfill multiple different roles, has access to healing, quickness and alac and has decent power/condi and ranged builds. Most people that main any other class would happily take over those privileges.

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8 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Ele is in quite a decent spot atm in my opinion compared to last year. 

For PvE:

Lack of uptime on alac uptime on HAT is mostly a skill issue (you can easily get some self stabi and you can stack up to ~200% alac uptime if you use overloads on cd (which can help you out whenever you've got no time to finish an overload).

If you can properly play cweaver or cata you're in the top 2 dps in like 90% of the encounters

Qcata is actually pretty decent right now, especially when used as an defensive boon support (perma protection, resolution, vigor and aegis every ~12 seconds. 

Even staff pweaver is pretty decent right now. Very easy rotation and can bench like 35k i believe. 

 

For WvW:

2 very powerful roam builds atm (hammer and sc/f cata). 

Nerfs to stabi and boonrip almost always result in staff Weaver getting a relative buff. Very strong in pug groups right now and has some usage for guildgraids aswell. 

Htemp quite popular aswell atm. Has gotten a big healing buff on elemental bastion aswell

 

For PvP:

Hammer cata, sc/f, tank temp are all in a great spot atm (and fire Weaver is also pretty decent). 

 

That being said, ele unfortunately still has quite some long lasting problems that makes the class kinda awkward on specific boss/WvW encounter. 

 

I can recommend trying out PvE spellbreaker for any ele player that likes to play power sw/d Weaver and is looking for another class/is fed up with the current state of the elementalist. Spellbreaker quite literally is everything the ele community has asked for atm. It has: similar dps & playstyle to pweaver, amazing breakbar damage, lots of surviveability, access to some amazing utilities & elites (defiance stance, shake it off, MoD, rez banner), can easily switch to quick (provides easy reliable quick uptime), access to perma stability at the cost of only a small amount of dps, provides meaningful Boons as dps (you dont even need a dedicated Qdps if you're running 4 spellbreakers in a party) and to top it off its probably the best boonrip ingame. Spellbreaker is quite literally pweaver on steroids. It outclasses it in almost every single possible way atm. 

Yes compared to mech that can give 100% alac uptime , fury and might almost afk , as the player said you just below , you can be permanently under stab when you overload , then you have no vigor for the group , you can give a good chunk of stab to your group playing earth , you can maintain fury playing air , but thas it , just look as Hat has to sacrifice a whole traitline for just one boon!

In OW we don't care about that but in endgame isntanced a half baked "healer" can't do , you see some druids , you see "some" (lol) healmechs and some firebrands , you never see a HAt , it is in a bad spot and sure some people enjoy it , but there is a difference between enjoyable and efficient , i enjoy playing catalyst celestial in OW , should i bring that to raids ? i don't think so , ...

The problem with the alac generator has been discussed a lot of times , when you have all other classes literally puking quickness or alacrity like no tomorrows , and ele lockdown into switching attunements as fast as he could to counter the 5 secondes for the overload to be ready and then channeling for 4 secs... just look at others healers ... i don't need to point it out , Hat is the worst healer of the game , and for the dps aspect , it is fine for a little % of the players , numbers don't lie https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity if it is in such a good spot it should be played more , no ? why is there still a 20% of mechs players , why is firebrand and druid more than double played than hat ? 

hat need a smoother access to alacrity , and not just a trait saying you gove alacrity , endpoint ! other healers have alacrity/quickness access with a bonus , ex:

-mech gaining an op skill that give stab. , prot. , aegis , alacrity , area breakstun , condi cleanse , and make some tea and cookies for the squad at same time

-druid : bonus on hp sacrifice for all spirits 

-herald : bonus to passiv duration after use

-and sovort ....

Hat should be ok if all other support had the same shenanigans as others , but his alacrity was just throwed at him like a  rock , while other healers has no sacrifice to do in term of support , Hat laso looses bastion of elements , a key trait for healing ... too much to sacrifice for a bad result , all others healers are more efficient .

You say it beats the druid ? druid has one fairly good selling point , it has amazing long range healing , as for the most endgame content now need your group to split , so play as Hat and what do you use long range healing ? yes ice bow AA , on a 60 sec cd hahahaha. And for alac spirits can be maintained alive 100% of the time with your own heals and you just need to take 3 of them to have 24 sec of alacrity on 15 sec cd , and the alacrity is on a 1/2sec cast , and if you are interrupted , you can relaunch it right after , too bad overloads go full cd if interrupted , huh ...

And yes , if my squad is running 10 reapers , i don't need quickness too , and if my squad is running 10 mechs i don't need anything at all in terms of boons , and if poneys could fly men will not need planes anymore ...

And yes ele is maybe doing better than last year but adding cherry toping on a t-u-r-d cake doesnt make it a dessert , ty !

spec has less hp and less armor , is difficult to play and should be rewarded proportionally of that , and you know it isn't the case.

Numbers don't lie , it is with his 3-especs combined the less played class of all the game in endgame (with thief).

Edited by zeyeti.8347
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19 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Yes compared to mech that can give 100% alac uptime , fury and might almost afk , as the player said you just below , you can be permanently under stab when you overload , then you have no vigor for the group , you can give a good chunk of stab to your group playing earth , you can maintain fury playing air , but thas it , just look as Hat has to sacrifice a whole traitline for just one boon!

In OW we don't care about that but in endgame isntanced a half baked "healer" can't do , you see some druids , you see "some" (lol) healmechs and some firebrands , you never see a HAt , it is in a bad spot and sure some people enjoy it , but there is a difference between enjoyable and efficient , i enjoy playing catalyst celestial in OW , should i bring that to raids ? i don't think so , ...

The problem with the alac generator has been discussed a lot of times , when you have all other classes literally puking quickness or alacrity like no tomorrows , and ele lockdown into switching attunements as fast as he could to counter the 5 secondes for the overload to be ready and then channeling for 4 secs... just look at others healers ... i don't need to point it out , Hat is the worst healer of the game , and for the dps aspect , it is fine for a little % of the players , numbers don't lie https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity if it is in such a good spot it should be played more , no ? why is there still a 20% of mechs players , why is firebrand and druid more than double played than hat ? 

hat need a smoother access to alacrity , and not just a trait saying you gove alacrity , endpoint ! other healers have alacrity/quickness access with a bonus , ex:

-mech gaining an op skill that give stab. , prot. , aegis , alacrity , area breakstun , condi cleanse , and make some tea and cookies for the squad at same time

-druid : bonus on hp sacrifice for all spirits 

-herald : bonus to passiv duration after use

-and sovort ....

Hat should be ok if all other support had the same shenanigans as others , but his alacrity was just throwed at him like a  rock , while other healers has no sacrifice to do in term of support , Hat laso looses bastion of elements , a key trait for healing ... too much to sacrifice for a bad result , all others healers are more efficient .

You say it beats the druid ? druid has one fairly good selling point , it has amazing long range healing , as for the most endgame content now need your group to split , so play as Hat and what do you use long range healing ? yes ice bow AA , on a 60 sec cd hahahaha. And for alac spirits can be maintained alive 100% of the time with your own heals and you just need to take 3 of them to have 24 sec of alacrity on 15 sec cd , and the alacrity is on a 1/2sec cast , and if you are interrupted , you can relaunch it right after , too bad overloads go full cd if interrupted , huh ...

And yes , if my squad is running 10 reapers , i don't need quickness too , and if my squad is running 10 mechs i don't need anything at all in terms of boons , and if poneys could fly men will not need planes anymore ...

And yes ele is maybe doing better than last year but adding cherry toping on a t-u-r-d cake doesnt make it a dessert , ty !

spec has less hp and less armor , is difficult to play and should be rewarded proportionally of that , and you know it isn't the case.

Numbers don't lie , it is with his 3-especs combined the less played class of all the game in endgame (with thief).

 

i'm not saying HAT is the best healer ingame, but honestly if that is the standard 8/9 classes are in a constant miserable spot. 

Most healers got some strenghts and weaknesses.

HAT has one of the best passive & burst heals, probably the highest hps ingame if fully traited/focussed on it. Uptime on vigor is still like 70% with latent stamina alone. On top of that it has access to stabi and aegis on demand, extra fast rezzing, access to rebound, access to teleport & superspeed, alot of extra blocks/invul, sandsquall, staff AA is very good for 10 man heal, access to aoe revive, very high uptime on most boons, so even when spread out you normally can get perma uptime on most boons. 

Sure HAM is probably the best overall support out there right now, and it deserves some nerf. Yet HAT can run all pve content perfectly fine without doing any major consessions. 

 

sure as an ele main i'd love some long lasting problems getting fixed (which is also one of the main reasons ele still has a relatively low playrate), but the ele community also likes to make a victim of themselves. 

 

p.s. my statement about HAT>druid was purely for fractals since druid is just a big mess in fractals. 

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All you stated up comes with tardeoffs

Staff ? great , no boon extension , no fire warhorn 4 for fury might expend , how do you maintain might in that case ? with your tiny 180 aoe wide overload fire ?

burst heal ? ofc , but heal access is a mess , Ham has medkit (weak heals but 100% of the time) , Fb more burst heal and access right now with tome rework , druid has burst heal for 15 secondes with his avatar on a freaking 1200 range , and decent heals with staff

rezzing ? if you take staff only (not counting the waterfall when you start rezzing almost useless while youc an take long range instant rez) , Fb has a signet who instantly revive 

And alacrity is the worst ... no need to point that out .

it is weirdly enough , very well designed , because of those trade offs , you have to choose between what you need , but it is bad because all others healers have 0 trade offs .

It is not coincidence Hat is the less played healer in the meta . While i agree it is fun ... but thats all.

 

Edited by zeyeti.8347
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3 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

numbers don't lie https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity if it is in such a good spot it should be played more , no ? why is there still a 20% of mechs players , why is firebrand and druid more than double played than hat ? 

Just a note. Numbers do lie. You need to take into consideration that there is literary 1 tempest build that sees play in high end pve (HAT), and mech has 3 builds (dps, dps/alac, healmech). Ofc mech will see a lot more play cause it can cover 3 spots instead of 1. 

 

5 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Im not saying that the current state of ele is perfect right now, but it is doing alot better then last year.

Couldnt agree more. I would actually say that ele atm is far better than it has been for years now. 

2 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

All you stated up comes with tardeoffs

As it should be for every class/build. 

2 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

how do you maintain might in that case ?

Might is being provided by many sources atm, even most dps provide 5-10 stacks with no intention. Same goes for fury. Since as a HAT you will always be playing with quick dps, you can surely count on them providing fury and might (since almost every qdps build provides that). So the tradeoffs are not that bad tbh. 

2 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

And alacrity is the worst ... no need to point that out

All tempest needs atm is 3-4 secs of alac on "feel the burn" and problem with alac uptime is solved. 

 

Edited by soulknight.9620
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3 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

All you stated up comes with tardeoffs

Staff ? great , no boon extension , no fire warhorn 4 for fury might expend , how do you maintain might in that case ? with your tiny 180 aoe wide overload fire ?

burst heal ? ofc , but heal access is a mess , Ham has medkit (weak heals but 100% of the time) , Fb more burst heal and access right now with tome rework , druid has burst heal for 15 secondes with his avatar on a freaking 1200 range , and decent heals with staff

rezzing ? if you take staff only (not counting the waterfall when you start rezzing almost useless while youc an take long range instant rez) , Fb has a signet who instantly revive 

And alacrity is the worst ... no need to point that out .

it is weirdly enough , very well designed , because of those trade offs , you have to choose between what you need , but it is bad because all others healers have 0 trade offs .

It is not coincidence Hat is the less played healer in the meta . While i agree it is fun ... but thats all.

 

Yes all these come with tradeoffs. That being said, there are very few fights when this actually becomes a problem: for example raid w1: 

Across all 3 bosses you dont need much surviveability/healing, with the relatively low healing coefficients/high base heals you'll be perfect with cele gear. Deals abit of damage, 100% boon duration, decent enough for tanking.

 

VG: no stabi needed and vig very helpful-> invigorating torrents, need aurasupport but no need for for magnetic aura/prot-> flash freeze. Want some extra burst heals for greens-> signet of water. Does everything goes wrong? -> signet of renewal/rebound. Extra group superspeed for groups that easy clear? EotS. 

 

Gors: stabi/aegis are highly desirable, vigor not needed so take EotS, harmonious conduit and aftershock. Want extra burstheal during his groundpound? Just take signet of water and water elemental. On top of that you've got an incredible amount of cripple/immob (with increased duration) on aftershock, earthen rush and ring of earth so you can take care of 2 of the adds quite easily. 

 

sabetha: easily one of the best kiters. Grab staff for excellent heal on stack. Lightning flash and EotS are very good for dodging flamethrowers and grabbing and throwing bombs. Vigor isn't needed for the fight, so you can take harm conduit for high uptime on stabi incase CC fails. Might and Fury are normally already covered by the Qdps/rest of the dps. There's very little healing required during the fight so you can easily slot in Fire traitline with leadership runes. Glyph of elementals and glyph of less elementals to add in some extra dps to the boss. 

 

now how much tradeoffs has there actually been? Does it matter that you lack stabi for VG? Do you need vigor for gors/sabetha? Is it really that hard to upkeep your alac? 

and at the same time: HAM doesn't have an aoe rez, Ham doesn't have access to superspeed, HAM's got a lot less burst healing, Ham has way less access to cripple/cc for gors. 

 

Honestly there are only 2 problems with HAT normally in my opinion. The CC is mediocre at best and only provides very awkward access through utilities/elites and investing in extra condi cleanse costs alot of healing output

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/4/2023 at 3:21 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

What vitally important utility slots are you sacrificing for Stability? The only allied Stability boon is one stack on a high cooldown, which means you need to take personal skills. Are you giving up Might generation from Shouts or permanent Regeneration and Vigor from auras and using the overload trait?

 

The duration of Alacrity on 100% boon duration is 14 seconds. Overloads have a cast time of 4 seconds and you need at least 5 seconds to be able to overload after attunment swapping after the first overload, which means the leftover Alacrity duration is 5 seconds assuming a perfect swap, on a build that has already kitten itself to provide one boon (all other Tempest boons require only a low boon duration).

 

If you can reliably have Quickness e.g you're playing in a proper group in instanced content and not in a pug group, solo, open-world, or any other situation, then it gets slightly better. On top of this, while it does stack up over time, that's assuming a long fight which doesn't occur in Fractals, only in raids and strikes, and even a single interrupt will eat all remaining time and possibly even go into the negative.

 

There's been a dozen threads about it, and its been discussed to death.

 

I love these posts that are like "I know you've played this a super long time, but trust me its a skill issue" and then proceed to talk about what a class is like in a vaccum instead of asking players what it actually feels like to play it. Even an Ele main won't be able to understand how others feel about it.

 

For example, I would say Catalyst is the most clunky class in the game, and others might say "Top DPS THO". If that's how it worked, we'd all be running Untamed, but we're not.

 

I switched my main to Bladesworn precisely because its just as tricky to play as Ele, but you actually get a payoff. There's a reward at the end of your effort, which is all anyone ever asked for for Elementalist, but some people seem to think just having the same payoff as other classes for several times the effort is acceptible. Its not acceptible to be a downstate meme so you can be one tier below HAM and FB (even after the nerfs), or move up a single DPS slot when no one really cares what position you're in anyway.

 

I feel the pain i was doing fractals died so much today o n weaver OOF man repeated deaths. I hate being in melee range so long on weaver, and some mobs have giant ae dmg.

 

 

Edited by Axl.8924
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58 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

I feel the pain i was doing fractals died so much today o n weaver OOF man repeated deaths. I hate being in melee range so long on weaver, and some mobs have giant ae dmg.

 

 

You could try condi sword.  It has pretty excellent survivability with the extra evades and invuln built into the weapon kit.

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