Cata is steamrolling mat in part because you eat each other alive on the forums.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Cata has visual/telegraph/balance issues, but that isn't all.

People are so unwilling to tolerate classes being viable in one or two roles that they go on nerf brigades to make things that are at best annoying useless, but can't see the long term effects of throwing wrenches in things you don't like.
These are the long-term effects. If you make it harder and harder to play classes that already have clear counters, you will have less and less variability in what people actively seek for MaT.

We should have learned this lesson with cele ele. 

 

Thief, condi Revenant, Reaper and the like all had the kit to help deal with this. 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I don't pay much attention to balance, but I agree with the second part.

It is a shame, but the truth of it is that very few of us here on the forums are actually capable of reason and rational thought. People weaponize balance in this game because they can, and they have historically been encouraged to do so.

To argue with them is to court madness and provides them with what they ultimately desire(an enemy). The only logical thing for someone to do is to reject it all. Heed not one blasphemous word unless the damned soul uttering it has any chance for repentance( a lot of us do not).

Faith is strength and bless-ed be the intolerant mind. 🙏

[RedAvenged.5217]

Except thief condi rev and reaper are all really good rn compared to most classes.

 

necro rev and thief are overall really strong class that many of us cannot even compare to.

 

are you telling me that those are over nerfed? Like lol what do you think of the stuff I have to play.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

37 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I don't pay much attention to balance, but I agree with the second part.

It is a shame, but the truth of it is that very few of us here on the forums are actually capable of reason and rational thought. People weaponize balance in this game because they can, and they have historically been encouraged to do so.

To argue with them is to court madness and provides them with what they ultimately desire(an enemy). The only logical thing for someone to do is to reject it all. Heed not one blasphemous word unless the damned soul uttering it has any chance for repentance( a lot of us do not).

Faith is strength and bless-ed be the intolerant mind. 🙏

Umbasa. Wait, wrong game...

"I counter your magics!"

[Crab Fear.8623]

12 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Except thief condi rev and reaper are all really good rn compared to most classes.

 

necro rev and thief are overall really strong class that many of us cannot even compare to.

 

are you telling me that those are over nerfed? Like lol what do you think of the stuff I have to play.

 

 

heh?

Cata, Temp, Untamed, Spellbreaker, Vindi are the best to play.

That isn't thief, condi rev, or reaper.

Even if we drop a level, it still isnt you list.

I saw you in game playing herald, but that kitten has never been weak overall.

[RedAvenged.5217]

42 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

heh?

Cata, Temp, Untamed, Spellbreaker, Vindi are the best to play.

That isn't thief, condi rev, or reaper.

Even if we drop a level, it still isnt you list.

I saw you in game playing herald, but that kitten has never been weak overall.

😂😂😂 you didn’t seen me in game on herald.

I don’t even play rev, I have only been on sic em ranger and sword dagger thief.

 

d/p thief, rev and necro are overall bonkers compared to sic em ranger.

 

I still out played you and everyone in that match though

[Crab Fear.8623]

Just now, RedAvenged.5217 said:

😂😂😂 you didn’t seen me in game on herald.

I don’t even play rev, I have only been on sic em ranger and sword dagger thief.

 

d/p thief, rev and necro are overall bonkers compared to sic em ranger.

 

I still out played you and everyone in that match though

IDK about outplayed, we were on the same team girl

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Umbasa. Wait, wrong game...

Take me there. Would that I could spend an eternity in that satanic hellscape if it meant I would not have spend another second here among those meddling  wintrader heretics.

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

"I counter your magics!"

idk about you but I felt we always deserved a more hype catchphrase. We were blessed with CC after all. We are CmC's chosen, his faithful.

I tried this 4 years ago by mixing around different audio clips from game https://youtu.be/8STlhxeqKQ4?t=32

And before anyone says cringe shut up yo it was 2018 different times 😭🙏

 

[apharma.3741]

Often it's not just about if a build/spec has counters, it's whether those counters have counters and in what numbers. For example scourge at it's state on launch would eat catalyst for breakfast but it would also be horrible to play against for everyone else too. We'd just be switching one problem for another, great if you're a necro, not so much everyone else. Though I guess pew pews might have a better time.

 

At the end of the day anyone who saw catalyst reveal and was around in the cele days knew it was a when this will be a problem not if. Giving a combo field to every element that gives great boon coverage, perma (or almost) stab and allows you to get the 2 strongest auras in the game every rotation is nuts, the buffs to scepter was the straw that broke the camels back. I'd start with toning down scepter a bit, then look at changing the auras from elemental epitome, then change stab to be on one element, heal or something else. Would tone it down without gutting all other ele specs that do need magnetic and shocking aura.

 

It's funny you bring up original celementalist, it caused might as a boon to be nerfed by 5 iirc and they stripped a lot of burn from it, reduced might stacking, brought healing down a bit, changed some skills and fixed bugs giving extra heals etc. A lot of these were reversed over the years when the ele echo chamber was crying they weren't the best anymore, funny that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Take me there. Would that I could spend an eternity in that satanic hellscape if it meant I would not have spend another second here among those meddling  wintrader heretics.

 

The Candle Maiden awaits.

[Jobber.6348]

Can we get a power coefficient revert for many CC skills that don't deserve the nerf? 🙂 

[Nightcore.5621]

when 10/10 play the same class than something is wrong 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Nightcore.5621

[Kodama.6453]

19 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Can we get a power coefficient revert for many CC skills that don't deserve the nerf? 🙂 

Would be great. Can Big Ol' Bomb be on the very top of the list?

For all the counterplay it has, just being a launch and blast finisher is ridiculously bad. Should have a 2,0 power coefficient.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Buff minionmancer buff trapper runes

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Would be great. Can Big Ol' Bomb be on the very top of the list?

For all the counterplay it has, just being a launch and blast finisher is ridiculously bad. Should have a 2,0 power coefficient.

And Prime Light Beam. All the big CCs with obvious tells and windups should get damage returned to them. It's the fast cast/instant cast CCs that should have had their damage removed.

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

buff trapper runes

Absolutely not.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

13 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

necro and rev are fantastic atm, it’s just that the meta builds are overly busted

This is what 50% of this forum doesn't seem to understand.

They are not understanding that in an environment without Cata/Spell/Vindi, everything else is actually pretty strangely balanced right now, with only a handful of issues that could be discussed / tweaked. And those issues are so so much smaller than the game breaking issues presented by Cata/Spell/Vindi.

[Grimjack.8130]

people dont like condis thats how u get metas like this or earth tempest preventing all dps from playing the game! bring back condi mes and necro!!! they kill things and then they die, very healthy!

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And Prime Light Beam. All the big CCs with obvious tells and windups should get damage returned to them. It's the fast cast/instant cast CCs that should have had their damage removed.

Prime light beam already got it's damage returned partially, tho.

The initial hit, which launches, currently has a 1,0 power coefficient in PvP.

[Chromazene.4807]

[deleted]

Edited January 14 by Enduronex.4865

[UNOwen.7132]

29 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Prime light beam already got it's damage returned partially, tho.

The initial hit, which launches, currently has a 1,0 power coefficient in PvP.

And that partial revert wasnt good enough. It went from a bottom 3 elite in the entire game, to just the worst elite Engineer has access to. What it needs is a full revert, or at least to go to 2.0.

[apharma.3741]

Sure but these kind of elites shouldn't be able to be cancelled at the last half a second constantly forcing people to burn defences.
Goes for gravity well, prime light beam, chill to the bone etc.

[Bear.9568]

It's comical how bad CmC and Anet are at balance.

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

And that partial revert wasnt good enough. It went from a bottom 3 elite in the entire game, to just the worst elite Engineer has access to. What it needs is a full revert, or at least to go to 2.0.

Well it is ublockable AoE ranged cc on low cd, closest skill to it is Chilled to the bone which does not do damage and is not unblockable and it is kinda go balls deep into the fight skill is probably picked over the rest of the elites on necro, Prime light beam might not be the best Engi elite but by comparison it is probably better than most elite skills on most professions by large margin.

[Kodama.6453]

55 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Well it is ublockable AoE ranged cc on low cd, closest skill to it is Chilled to the bone which does not do damage and is not unblockable and it is kinda go balls deep into the fight skill is probably picked over the rest of the elites on necro, Prime light beam might not be the best Engi elite but by comparison it is probably better than most elite skills on most professions by large margin.

I honestly have no idea why it even should be considered the worst elite skill engineer has access to. In my opinion, elixir x is worse.

The unblockable AoE CC is quite nice, especially since there are so many classes running around with blocks right now. The elite is also currently used on the meta tools holo build.