Doctor Hide.6345 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: I don't see how ibs was awful. What left the impression were DRMs and ending which felt rushed. But that's not even close to being the whole ibs content. Sometimes how things end affect how you feel about it even if some of the stuff in it was good. So for you it was ok, but for others like me how they rushed the end and the DRMs were enough for us to not like it a lot and say it is awful. 3 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) I'd definitely find it hard to call the whole thing awful due to the DRMs and the ending. The DRMs were definitely awful, but there was a lot I enjoyed about the prologue, Bjora Marches, Drizzlewood, and even Steel and Fire (the first time through only). Too much for the DRMs and ending to completely outweigh them. I'm not even sure the conventional sorting of them into "first half" and "second half" really makes sense. Is Champions really a full half? But, this model of "two zones to start", the rest in quarterly updates later does call back to IBS. If people buy a min-expansion at launch, they might get a Marches and Drizzlewood, only to find the rest of their purchase price gets them Champions. There's just no guarantee. Old model, at least I could weigh my expansion price on what I could see of four to five zones and new feature. LW was just bonus, good or not. In the new model, those later updates need to justify the expense. Edited February 16, 2023 by Gibson.4036 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: Sometimes how things end affect how you feel about it even if some of the stuff in it was good. So for you it was ok, but for others like me how they rushed the end and the DRMs were enough for us to not like it a lot and say it is awful. It seems most people thinking ibs was somehow bad, simply confuse the delayed "champions" release with the entirety of ibs. I get it, since that's how it felt while/after they drip-fed us drms as if they're episodes, but after you look back at what ibs actually was, it was pretty good content. You can feel whatever you want, but it seems you even understand that kind of outlook presents a rather distorted picture of reality. 8 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: I'm not even sure the conventional sorting of them into "first half" and "second half" really makes sense. Is Champions really a full half? Not even close, it's one episode out of 5. Edited February 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Hide.6345 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: It seems most people thinking ibs was somehow bad, simply confuse the delayed "champions" release with the entirety of ibs. You can feel whatever you want, but it seems you even understanad that kind of outlook presents a rather distorted picture of reality. It doesn't matter if it is distorted, the truth, or something completely different. What matters is how people feel about it in the end. And for those that don't like it this is their reality and view on it. For those that do, that is their reality instead of the situation. The problem here is people like you and some other posters here like to force their view on others thinking it is the only right way. And that is far from the actual reality because people can see and view things how they want without others telling them how to do it. All you are doing when you try to change people's mind this way is just push them more into what they believe and away from what you are actually saying. And for the record, I only like Grothmar Valley because of the concert really. I thought the rest of IBS was bad with how they designed it. Drizzlewood too busy with annoying meta. Marches have the annoying cold. Overall was not a fan for your more precise answer. Edited February 16, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345 5 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: It doesn't matter if it is distorted, the truth, or something completely different. What matters is how people feel about it in the end. And for those that don't like it this is their reality and view on it. For those that do, that is their reality instead of the situation. The problem here is people like you and some other posters here like to force their view on others thinking it is the only right way. And that is far from the actual reality because people can see and view things how they want without others telling them how to do it. All you are doing when you try to change people's mind this way is just push them more into what they believe and away from what you are actually saying. Ok, you somehow think the problem is when people point out what ibs in its entirity is, instead I think the problem is when some people seem to understand what they're complaining about is a small part of ibs, but because they want to feel their feelings instead of looking at reality for what it is, they'll disregard what they know. You're free to do so all you want and pretty sure I'm free to point out the bad parts weren't even close to being the whole -or even half- of ibs -they were basically the last episode of it. Make no mistake, I'm not somehow trying to change your mind here, it makes no difference to me, the content is still what it is regardless of what anyone thinks of it. All I pointed out is that ibs isn't what people complaining about it mainly think it is. Feel whatever you feel, as long as you understand last episode is a rather small part of otherwise good set of content. Now if you also disliked previous maps/episodes, that would make more sense for you to say ibs was bad (in your opinion; it was still good in mine). Edited February 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Hide.6345 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: I also loved Braham's voice messages. What gets me in south Drizzlewood is a lot of the ambient dialogue. Love the various soldiers hanging out and talking. Also, bazookas. I really wish they'd thought to let the Svanir Thaw Elixir also apply to Marches cold. Having to constantly find Raven Shrines can be very annoying, and allowing us to go make Elixir in Bitterfrost would have been a wonderful callback to earlier story and alternative game solution. I also like the creepy whisper, Mountains of Madness quality in the zone. Well, like I said, I am fine with people enjoying the stuff in IBS because that is their right and opinion. I just never liked it. Truth of the matter is I have not liked the majority of maps coming out last few years. My favourite map is Bitterfrost Frontier because I like the simple, but yet timely meta of it. It is small, and it is very alt friendly. I have not liked the later metas and maps because frankly I feel they are too busy, large, and annoying to deal with it at times. I prefer more simple stuff for my enjoyment instead of always running around like a headless chicken doing a new meta event every 5 minutes. I know many people do like that playstyle, but honestly, it is not for me. So, that is one of my worries is that basically every new map will just be that to some extent which makes me go ugh. Now, if they added some like Bitterfrost Frontier, then I would be less critical of it because well I like that style more. lolz Also I would be less critical of this change of direction if they allowed P/P thief to be meta with damage, but I seriously doubt that would happen. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: Well, like I said, I am fine with people enjoying the stuff in IBS because that is their right and opinion. Absolutely. Definitely wasn't trying to convince you otherwise. Thought I'd share a little. Maybe as an alternative to any other... less constructive conversations you might be experiencing. 😄 EDIT: I can see what you mean about the Drizzlewood meta. I remember feeling like I might have been taking away from the thing while roaming around doing the story for the first time. Kinda like Dragon's End. Edited February 16, 2023 by Gibson.4036 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Hide.6345 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Just now, Gibson.4036 said: Absolutely. Definitely wasn't trying to convince you otherwise. Thought I'd share a little. Maybe as an alternative to any other... less constructive conversations you might be experiencing. 😄 Of course, and I do appreciate it. So thank you. 🙂 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 13 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: That is all you will get from me then. I am bored of this conversation anyways, so I will drop it with you. I will make all the pointless statements I want because I can. Goodbye. You can make pointless assumptions all you want. But you should also expect people to call you on them if you're going to post them on a public forum. People use words like greedy, or lazy to describe developers and companies, without actually knowing if either are true. It's just easy to use words that malign if you don't actually have any proof of wrong doing. I've seen what that does in real life and I'll continue to call it out, wherever I see it. 5 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: And for the record, I only like Grothmar Valley because of the concert really. I thought the rest of IBS was bad with how they designed it. Drizzlewood too busy with annoying meta. Marches have the annoying cold. Overall was not a fan for your more precise answer. Cool, as I said: "Now if you also disliked previous maps/episodes, that would make more sense for you to say ibs was bad (in your opinion; it was still good in mine)." If that was your response from the start instead of saying drms and ending was enough to say ibs was bad: 3 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: but for others like me how they rushed the end and the DRMs were enough for us to not like it a lot and say it is awful. Then we wouldn't have much to comment on after that initial post 😄 Edited February 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 3:34 PM, idpersona.3810 said: But they are actually making some changes to it. That can't really be denied. Whether you like them or not is obviously your own opinion. But WvW changes are in fact happening. Yes, they lowered rewards to a point below where they were last week. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 10 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said: . Marches have the annoying cold. oh I love, just love me some snow maps. So I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Oh well, different strokes and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 20 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said: This is a joke, right? There will be the same amount of content at the same pace we get now, but now you'll have to pay for it. Less content than we get now, actually. They did mention that one of the reasons for the change is that the current pace is unsustainable. 4 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon Indi.2031 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said: Except IBS wasn't free if you logged in. You had to pay for PoF to have access to it. We just got a crazy long amount of content included with PoF, compared to HoT and EoD. IBS was 'free' in the sense that you didn't have to pay for each chapter if you were present for its launch, regardless of your expansion ownership status. The more I think about what's being proposed here, the more it's just the same Expansion into LW content we were already paying for but now you don't have to be online to have it (So when mini expac 2 comes out and you don't buy it but you come back when mini expac 3 is out and then buy 2&3, yoou get the LW content with both of those expansions). Yet instead of all the focus pouring into PvE content, they're promising to focus more on other game modes like producing more fractals, strikes, WvW & PvP updates. Given their track record of promising to focus on other things outside of LW and then not delivering, that has me reluctant to believe that this time will be different. Anyone here remember when they redid fractals and promised a fractal leaderboard (Where even is that?) Anyone remember when they promised a new fractal every other LW release (I think this was during season 3 or season 4? Raids being 3-5 wings a year (Somewhere in season 3 this was mentioned)? The initial talk about Alliances and WvW reward restructuring? LW being released every month, then every two to three months, then four months. To me, this comes off as the prior promises to do the above (Replace Raids with Strikes, though), though with a "Pay us now" addendum and I'm not too sure about that. They couldn't deliver on the promises when it was being done cheaper, why should I believe they can now suddenly do it if I pay them $30 every 3-4 months / twice a year? Edited February 17, 2023 by Andifulated.3482 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquinoxPower.4783 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Less content than we get now, actually. They did mention that one of the reasons for the change is that the current pace is unsustainable. Yep... I dont know how this announcement is even being seen as positive, like I said in my comment how does this make content better time and amount wise if ANet struggled multiple times with LSW3/LSW4 when having almost or sometimes all of the dev team working on it. Before we would have in a year 4 LSW episodes, every 3 months with festivals and other minor updates in the middle for free and now its 3 updates per year and you got to pay, I don't have an issue on the monetary decision honestly if they charged for LSW4 back then I would be fine with it since it had alot of big features on it. You could say the extra 4 months changing from trimestral to quarterly updates will help add more features, etc I dont realy believe it help that much. Maybe I'm being overpessimistic so if anyone can put in a better light what they said or if I'm missing something would be great! Edited February 17, 2023 by EquinoxPower.4783 typos 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said: why should I believe they can now suddenly do it if I pay them $30 every 3-4 months? Nowhere has it been said that expansions will be released every 3 - 4 months. Where do people get this? It is said there will be an expansion (paid) and then quarterly releases associated with said paid expansion at no cost. Much like it has been, only smaller, more frequent less-expensive expansions. No cost for the what-they-are-not-calling-Living-World releases...ever...now. 3 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquinoxPower.4783 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Nowhere has it been said that expansions will be released every 3 - 4 months. Where do people get this? It is said there will be an expansion (paid) and then quarterly releases associated with said paid expansion at no cost. Much like it has been, only smaller, more frequent less-expensive expansions. No cost for the what-they-are-not-calling-Living-World releases...ever...now. Ye I dont know how people are coming to that conclusion, at max we will have 2 mini xpcas per year so about 40 to 50$ a year if they changed the price from 30$ to 25$ or 20$, which is pretty reasonable imo if of course they deliver great content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/14/2023 at 5:04 PM, lezbefriends.7516 said: Except that targeting ALL audiences makes the most money. It actually doesn't. By trying to make everyone happy, you end up making everyone meh. 3 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/14/2023 at 5:26 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said: This pretty much sums up my concerns with the announcement as well. Personally, I don't mind paying for content. My issue with GW2 has always been that they never deliver enough of it. If I thought this announcement signaled an increase in development but at a higher price, I'd be all for it (for me, obviously that doesn't work for everyone - which is also a concern). Unfortunately, I think if anything it signals less content and we'll still be paying a higher price because development we once received free of charge will now go toward development that we'll be paying for. I have no issue paying for content and prefer paying. However, I have zero faith in this company to be able to deliver an appropriate amount of non-buggy content at a constant rate. Can you imagine paying for Kourna, for example? 1 4 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon Indi.2031 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Nowhere has it been said that expansions will be released every 3 - 4 months. Where do people get this? It is said there will be an expansion (paid) and then quarterly releases associated with said paid expansion at no cost. Much like it has been, only smaller, more frequent less-expensive expansions. No cost for the what-they-are-not-calling-Living-World releases...ever...now. Maybe I wasn't clear enough (I wasn't stating that we'd be getting small expansions every 3-4 months)? It's the same thing we're getting now. Expansion once a year then "LW" now throughout the year into another expansion (See HoT into Season 3 into PoF which goes into Season 4). With this new plan, you don't have to pay for LW if you miss it (If you paid for the expansion). They're(ANet) are also, once again, promising to focus on other game modes more (PvP, WvW) and other niche modes within modes (Fractals & Strikes), much like they promised before (See the list prior). This is also something they promised through HoT to Season 4 and stuck with it once, then dropped the ball on it with no announcement. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) i love everything on drizzlewood. and finally we take a real break from deserts.(verdant brink seems more a desert with trees). Edited February 17, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said: I have no issue paying for content and prefer paying. However, I have zero faith in this company to be able to deliver an appropriate amount of non-buggy content at a constant rate. Can you imagine paying for Kourna, for example? We did pay for it ... the comments that imply we don't pay for content need to end. It's misinformation to say we didn't pay for content. It gives people the impression there is something wrong with having to pay for it. The important part of here is to recognize that if we have to pay for every expansion at the time it's released (and not like the Living Story model), then the quality of every expansion is VERY important for Anet to maintain to retain players. Edited February 17, 2023 by Obtena.7952 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said: I have no issue paying for content and prefer paying. However, I have zero faith in this company to be able to deliver an appropriate amount of non-buggy content at a constant rate. Can you imagine paying for Kourna, for example? I think if they had more resources they could manage just fine. That's the catch-22 of the F2P/B2P model. If they had the numbers to do it, they'd make more money with a subscription model and they could afford more development resources. But they don't have the numbers, so they have to stick with F2P/B2P. That means fewer resources, which is bad for players who would be willing to pay a subscription. They'll never see the kind of development they could get from GW2's larger competitors which do operate on a subscription. It sucks if all you want is more content and you're perfectly willing to pay for it. But the game just can't support that. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said: It actually doesn't. By trying to make everyone happy, you end up making everyone meh. True, because there are limited resources and not enough to do everything justice for everyone. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquinoxPower.4783 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said: i love everything on drizzlewood. and finally we take a real break from deserts.(verdant brink seems more a desert with trees). we haven't had any desert since the end of LSW4 so about 3 years ago why is this relevant now xD Edited February 17, 2023 by EquinoxPower.4783 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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