PvP Community In This Game is Cannibalizing Itself with Toxicity

[ramen.6943]

Long time GW2 PvPer here, got a few of my friends and my wife into PvP to try it out. Within a week they no longer want to play and have been told to kill themselves 14 times. They are not good, they are learning, doing unranked 5v5s and get the most vile, toxic whispers I have ever seen in 15 years of playing MMOs.

Community in general needs to do better. Actual shame how bad it is.

Edit to say the the GW2 devs need to also do a better job of policing the sheer, uncessary toxicity in this game. You are as much at fault for letting people get away with the things they do and say with 0 punishment despite hundreds of reports. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by ramen.6943

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I think you bring up a very good point that nobody ever talks about it and it's true.
The people playing sPvP are extremely unhinged people that operate on a hair-trigger. 24 years I've walked this earth and and like 17 of those I've spent playing games, mostly multiplayer.

Gw2 sPvP is the worst. That's not hyperbole. It's truth. 
The only thing that could really prepare you for it in the real world, is belonging to a college fraternity.

Don't know anything about psychology, but I guarantee it can't be good for one's psyche. 

 

I don't think there's any specific reason that it's like that, but rather a culmination of everything. The wintraders, the AFKs, the matchmaking, and also forcing casual and competitive players to play together.
If you really sit down and think about it, there isn't anything in sPvP that encourages people not to resent eachother. The few that actually treat eachother with some modicum of respect do so completely out of their own conviction, and even they can easily be pushed to their breaking points after having spent so long in this hell.

I'm fairly convinced that this is the biblical hell, and that I choked to death on skittles all those years back at the state fair.
Welcome to guildie.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

idk i haven't seen it as any worse than any other multiplayer game i've played like early halo and cod as well as counter strike (actually for some reason cs is pretty wholesome if you get a good pub server. well it was anyway haven't played in a decade). ya know that might be it, its the newer generations that are being more toxic and i wonder why taht is. buncha doomers or somethin.

[Hotride.2187]

In my unranked games theres barely anyone saying anything. It could just be the early ranks, I remember weird players when I started spvp. It didnt last long for me though, since I practiced a lot in wvw (conquest is flowers and rainbows compared to wvw roaming).

Ranked can be pretty kitten but its understandable. No one likes wasting time while farming or climbing.

No idea what games you've been playing, GW2 is not any different to any other competitive game I've played. Same amount of crap you'd want to ignore. Top players in GW2 even tend to be on the normal side of egomania.

As for community toxicity, I'm sure the game itself is a bigger barrier than that. Just look at the daily threads that want to remake the game into some other game, because the player doesnt want to spend 100 hours learning to play.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Dreams.3128]

People here act like they get revenue from this game when its honestly the complete opposite. Folks in this community need to wake up and stop acting like this is an end all be all. It's a game. If people want to seriously climb they will seriously climb. If they want to farm for their armor or backpiece, let them do it.  The fact that I have a blocklist longer than the list of bills I have to pay is ridiculous. Hell, my block list is even smaller of League of all places. Folks need to gain some emotional intelligence and realize that more established folks are not going to sit here and talk trash or flame someone for mess ups.

Also for the people I did see this season: Seriously get a freaking grip.

[Gibson.4036]

My experience is that unranked is paradoxically far more toxic than ranked. As soon as I cleared the ranks needed to access ranked, I’ve never gone back.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Gw2 is a cesspool of some of the most vile degenerate people you will ever meet. There are a lot of people whose only goal is to be as much of an kitten as they can to as many people as possible. Reporting for anything but the most blatant verbal abuse does absolutely nothing. There is next to no moderation of chat, there is no game integrity left with the amount of bugs and cheaters that go unchecked. The gameplay is nowhere near good enough to justify putting up with that.

[Sundoor.5630]

It is very strange. In PVP there are quite a number of toxic people who either feel entitled to get carried by others to legendary rank (which is just that... kind of a pointless goal by itself) or just outright malicious, for what reason I dont know.

 

I agree that it is partially Anet's fault that people who are reported by dozens of others can keep joining in games, completely destroying all the fun.

 

It is ironic, because in PVE this game has one of the nicest communities I've ever seen in an MMO

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sundoor.5630

[Dr Meta.3158]

High school curriculums should include academic research utilizing scientific journals. I'm not sure how much it would help the general populace as I believe many cases of ignorance are willful rather than happenstance as well as general laziness, but it could help some people who do want to improve their understanding but avoid attending a University.

Anyway...

First lets understand what verbal aggression is: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/verbal-hostility

Neurological response to verbal aggression

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1097/WNR.0b013e328356f7a6

Similar brain region activation in response to physical and emotional pain. This one may require reading the abstract first to get a better understanding.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/9056800_Does_Rejection_Hurt_An_fMRI_Study_of_Social_Exclusion ->  https://sci-hub.ru/https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1089134

Understanding the trait: neuroticism from the Big Five/Five-Factor Model Personality scale. Do note that the personality dimension of Honesty-Humility is in consideration to turn it into a Six-Factor Model.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5428182/#:~:text=Neuroticism is the trait disposition,emotional instability%2C and depression1.

Relationship of trait: neuroticism and dark tetrad psychological disorder of psychopathy. 

Easy to read: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-psychopaths-score-low-on-neuroticism-and-sociopaths-score-high/answer/Claire-Jutland?ch=10&oid=72488307&share=f4ba4193&srid=ugQ4J&target_type=answer

Scientific evidence: https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1016/S0092-6566(02)00505-6 Do note that the Dark Triad is now the Dark Tetrad as Sadism has been added to the trio of Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy.

Do note that psychopathy and sociopathy are different, almost opposites in a way. Psychopaths are very low (as low as you can get) in neuroticism and very low in agreeableness and sociopaths are very high in neuroticism and and very low in agreeableness. Think psychopaths as calm aggressors and sociopaths as vitriolic aggressors. People use these terms interchangeably so most people get confused on what they actually mean. Psychologists also tend to confuse this as well by attributing Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) to both psychopathy and sociopathy despite almost strictly referring to sociopathy when mentioning ASPD. Additionally there are other big five traits associated with psychopaths and sociopaths but neuroticism is the main point to be emphasized here.

Difference between the terms: https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14786010802159814

Additionally, note that there is a distinct difference between changes in emotional state in response to a stimulus and changes in behavior in a response to a stimulus. Or more simply, feeling and acting are not the same.

1 hour ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

No, because most of the times verbal "agression" is the way to dodge physical agression. And this is true not only for kitten sapiens.

Lastly, verbal confrontation is not a good way of avoiding physical confrontation. I want to highlight this part so no one goes out and does something that gets themselves hurt or killed when confusing displays of dominance to inhibit aggression in others such as flexing muscles, widening stance, and attempting to appear larger with inciting violence with provocation techniques such as utilizing verbal insults and otherwise trolling. Realistically you shouldn't be doing either, you should be civilized well past such behavior at this age.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I believe many cases of ignorance are willful rather than happenstance as well as general laziness

That is very optimistic of you

[Sahne.6950]

Lifehack:

step1) Create a second Chatwindow.

step2) put nothing but the Combatlog in the second window.

step3) open this window when your match starts.

step4) inner peace.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone ,
Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.
Regards.

[Deadmoose.6594]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:53 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

My experience is that unranked is paradoxically far more toxic than ranked. As soon as I cleared the ranks needed to access ranked, I’ve never gone back.

I've been noticing the opposite of this. I was only playing unranked for around ~120 matches. Most people don't even talk, or won't respond.

 

When I went to ranked, I thought I noticed that people were more into it and trying to work together more to get the win. Then as time has gone on, I've noticed that people are really toxic in ranked and call out people who don't do well and rage and stuff.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Deadmoose.6594

[Zekent.3652]

There are so many toxic gamers in PvP, i just instablock them, i'm not playing PvP to tolerate/argue against salty gamers.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[Madam Pussycat.6153]

There is so much sheer toxicity and outright harassment in pvp, and it seems to only get worse over the years. Some people just log on for the soul purpose of harassing people, I never even see some of them who stand around in the lobby harassing people all day even in any pvp matches. I can understand why that would drive people away from this game mode. Pvp would benefit tremendously from some type of chat monitor to keep things more civilized. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Some helpful tips:

- Don't queue in the sPvP lobby

- Don't play unranked

- If your team gets salty on a loss in ranked, ignore the insults as they're inevitable in a competitive mode

- If someone whispers you after, you can either engage if they are explaining a point of view, or block if they're just being stupid

Should cut out at least 80-90% of the toxicity.  Or has for me.

Also, to add, this really only applies to 5v5 seasons.  For 2v2/3v3 either best not to queue or understand what you are getting into, as its twice as bad due to the pure TDM nature.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Esufer.8762]

fwiw all the horrible people are hardstuck in silver or low gold, or playing unranked.
It's fine once you get a bit higher.

[Hologram.2810]

On 2/20/2023 at 5:01 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

High school curriculums should include academic research utilizing scientific journals. I'm not sure how much it would help the general populace as I believe many cases of ignorance are willful rather than happenstance as well as general laziness, but it could help some people who do want to improve their understanding but avoid attending a University.

Anyway...

First lets understand what verbal aggression is: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/verbal-hostility

Neurological response to verbal aggression

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1097/WNR.0b013e328356f7a6

Similar brain region activation in response to physical and emotional pain. This one may require reading the abstract first to get a better understanding.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/9056800_Does_Rejection_Hurt_An_fMRI_Study_of_Social_Exclusion ->  https://sci-hub.ru/https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1089134

Understanding the trait: neuroticism from the Big Five/Five-Factor Model Personality scale. Do note that the personality dimension of Honesty-Humility is in consideration to turn it into a Six-Factor Model.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5428182/#:~:text=Neuroticism is the trait disposition,emotional instability%2C and depression1.

Relationship of trait: neuroticism and dark tetrad psychological disorder of psychopathy. 

Easy to read: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-psychopaths-score-low-on-neuroticism-and-sociopaths-score-high/answer/Claire-Jutland?ch=10&oid=72488307&share=f4ba4193&srid=ugQ4J&target_type=answer

Scientific evidence: https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1016/S0092-6566(02)00505-6 Do note that the Dark Triad is now the Dark Tetrad as Sadism has been added to the trio of Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy.

Do note that psychopathy and sociopathy are different, almost opposites in a way. Psychopaths are very low (as low as you can get) in neuroticism and very low in agreeableness and sociopaths are very high in neuroticism and and very low in agreeableness. Think psychopaths as calm aggressors and sociopaths as vitriolic aggressors. People use these terms interchangeably so most people get confused on what they actually mean. Psychologists also tend to confuse this as well by attributing Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) to both psychopathy and sociopathy despite almost strictly referring to sociopathy when mentioning ASPD. Additionally there are other big five traits associated with psychopaths and sociopaths but neuroticism is the main point to be emphasized here.

Difference between the terms: https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14786010802159814

Additionally, note that there is a distinct difference between changes in emotional state in response to a stimulus and changes in behavior in a response to a stimulus. Or more simply, feeling and acting are not the same.

Lastly, verbal confrontation is not a good way of avoiding physical confrontation. I want to highlight this part so no one goes out and does something that gets themselves hurt or killed when confusing displays of dominance to inhibit aggression in others such as flexing muscles, widening stance, and attempting to appear larger with inciting violence with provocation techniques such as utilizing verbal insults and otherwise trolling. Realistically you shouldn't be doing either, you should be civilized well past such behavior at this age.

This is very informative text that I wasn't expecting to see on this forum LOL

[Dr Meta.3158]

57 minutes ago, ContessaMinxa.2461 said:

This is very informative text that I wasn't expecting to see on this forum LOL

The forum moderator's intervening makes it very out of place now. I would considering just deleting it since it doesn't make much sense out of context. In the case any intellectual wants to understand a bit about what they're contending with when interacting with the less stable of pvp players and forum users, this should give some insight into it.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158

[Saiyan.1704]

Overwatch and LoL have some of the best reporting features I've seen in a game. People have literally gotten banned within an hour or two worth of heavy toxicity banter. GW2..? You can be toxic for 2 years and not get banned lol. The automated report feature is either non existent or is way too lenient. Saying "kys" should be instantly flagged for shadowbanning..

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 2/22/2023 at 1:53 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

Overwatch and LoL have some of the best reporting features I've seen in a game. People have literally gotten banned within an hour or two worth of heavy toxicity banter. GW2..? You can be toxic for 2 years and not get banned lol. The automated report feature is either non existent or is way too lenient. Saying "kys" should be instantly flagged for shadowbanning..

Toxicity affects overwatch's profit margin.

[Jedrik.3109]

On 2/22/2023 at 6:54 AM, Esufer.8762 said:

fwiw all the horrible people are hardstuck in silver or low gold, or playing unranked.
It's fine once you get a bit higher.

I have only ever done meta trains and raids with Hardstuck people. Are all 31k people there that bad?

[Esufer.8762]

26 minutes ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

I have only ever done meta trains and raids with Hardstuck people. Are all 31k people there that bad?

I of course mean hardstuck as in ‘trapped,’ rather than the guild of the strong teapot boy

[Mell.4873]

I think the funniest responses I get if a private dm after a match or even Fractal and then an instant block so I can't reply. 

People in this game take things wayyy to personaly. Many times I have tried to encourage a team to play better, target particular people, stop afking, improve your DPS rotation, ect. Only to be berated by them after. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

PvPs balance has a bunch of annoyances, ranging from builds that require exorcism rituals to down or are functionally useless to a lack of support for new players or group play.

The only people that are left/get retained if new are: 

>people that -really- like the gamemode and haven't moved to wvw for group play

>people that are obsessed with pvp titles, gizmos, the illusion of status, etc

and sometimes those two groups overlap. 

It's also getting around that you will not be swiftly banned in PvP for being an kitten, so people are gradually becoming more and more annoying to interact with there as time goes on,. 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261