Why are most players so ignorant of how bad they are?

[AlPower.2476]

7 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Are you surprised? scourge was busted and they had to hotfix that bad boy and they took years to fix mesmer and finally.

 

Sometimes arenanet  is so set on their ways of releasing broken classes that are either weak or busted OP to the inth degree.

The problem is, scourge is not fixed, is dead

Fix is not equal to kill.

 

And mesmer, core and mirage are dead (one dodge fix not needed today, but still here) while we still have immortal virtuoso

 

Anet gonna kill scrapper by itself, nerfing things that shouldn't be touched like super speed and hammer skills, then Nade Holo gonna be the next forum target, Anet gonna finally fix Global Stealth Burst (toxic mechanic asf) when X class starts to abuse Stealth again; and nerf grenades due to Holo rage forum, at the end, they gonna leave Scrapper overnerfed again for 2 years, thinking that buffing holo again in PvP after 8 months will be enough for engineers.

 

See Scourge, untouched 'cause they have the new EoD necro. Berserker again ignored 'cause Spellbreaker.

Firebrand 'cause Willbender.

 

Oh yeah, everyone knows that to play Scrapper, Berserker, Scourge, Firebrand or Renegade is the same thing that play Holosmith, Spellbreaker, Harbinger, Willbender and Vindicator so we should be happy if that happens.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by AlPower.2476

[Stalima.5490]

6 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

1. Look at the opponents your facing before matches 

2. Instead of using your cookie cutter meta battle build change your utility slots for your opponents

3. Grenade scrapper has literally 0 ways to remove immobilize

4. Take an immobilize talent, maybe even a reveal one

4. Immobilize the scrapper

5. He can't move for 10 seconds

6. GG

You seem to be misinformed, It will generally utilise the lesser utility goggles which means it is literally immune to all movement impairing effects, if using the medkit then you have VERY low cooldown on doing this, the medkit version does not even know that immobilise is a thing.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Utility_Goggles

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bandage_Self

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mechanized_Deployment

 

This basically means that combined with the medkit it has very significant condition cleanse

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Field

 

It is true, they may only have one stun break, but keep in mind this stun break has a very low cooldown due to again, another insignificant buff:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bypass_Coating

Edited March 29, 2023 by Stalima.5490

[Koensol.5860]

Even though I get where the OP is coming from, the current iteration of this scrapper build is toxic and unhealthy for the game. And I'm saying that as a long time engineer main with most hours on scrapper. I'll run through my thoughts a bit.

 

Yes, this scrapper build can be killed easily as long as you use your brain, AND if they don't mess up. They have 1 block, 1 stunbreak (2 of they use slick shoes instead of shredder gyro), a 1 second reflect and superspeed. Then they have stealth on a long cd, which is mostly used when trying to meme 1 shot people in stead of defensively. That's it. The only thing left is a 15k health pool with some barrier. If they wasted their stunbreak there only has to be one reaper to stun + chill them and it's literally over. They are very susceptible to pulls because outside of hammer 3 they have no on demand escape tools and mobility skills / ports. Another easy way to kill them is to condi bomb them. Ofc condi isn't really meta rn, but when I'm playing my condi soulbeast with a ton of evades, it's literally a free kill every time. Just evade their initial burst with griphon stance, dagger 4, shortbow 3, etc. and then bait the heal gyro toolbelt pulsing cleanse and then cc + condi burst them. Literally dead every time. That is, unless they are actually good scrappers that don't get baited like that, or come at you from stealth or in outnumbered situations. Which leads me to the next point.

 

This build is designed around omega giga bursting people from stealth with the possibility of landing grenade barrage (rather slow) + function gyro (rather instant) at almost the same time, while also stunning them with the delayed stun from blast gyro, while also stacking high levels of might, while also having stacked superspeed, while also having access to a gigatron amount of damage multipliers, while also inflicting high amounts of vulnerability and even traited weakness on stun/daze to prevent counterburst. All of that, in 1 very easy combo with minimal counterplay. You can kinda see what is happening here. This is why the build is toxic and unhealthy. On one hand you could say, okay this build does all that kitten at once, but dies after it has blown its load. But this is 5v5, not wvw. If the initial burst (from stealth) rounds up a kill immediately, that is HUGE value. You can immediately begin snowballing the map, outnumbering people, effectively rendering the builds weaknesses irrelevant because through deleting people so fast you can prevent becoming a target. Also don't forget that scrapper's burst options are all around the 20/25 second cd mark, so it's relatively easily recharged. This is different from for example sicem soulbeast, which has big cds on both sicem and one wolf pack. Scrapper is just a consistent machine of damage, both in burst and sustained. This makes it very good at snowballing the map.

 

The good scrappers will reliably land their one shots and have success in their +1's and through that prevent to become a target themself, especially when they are really good at kiting with about face while throwing nades backwards. The bad ones are literally fodder though, because they just walk into mid expecting to be a god and then fold like paper because the amount of defenses on this build are quite minimal. 

 

So in my opinion, the biggest problem is 3 things, which imo wouldn't be OP seperately, but become broken/toxic when together. 1: the long duration stealth allowing them to come in unseen with their team and having time to set up their full combo, 2: the amount of self generated boons (somewhat shaved with latest patch), 3: the insane amount of damage modifiers.

The biggest problem of these 3 is stealth gyro. As much as I hated seeing an iconic scrapper skill gutted in wvw, I think it was necessary and something similar (maybe not as extreme as the wvw nerf) needs to happen in pvp as well. The cd nerf isn't enough. It just enables too much degeneracy for the 5v5 mode. Without such long duration stealth it won't be as easy anymore to cheese 1 shots and to cause a snowball effect on the map. In turn, the scrappers will be more easily focussed and their weaknesses will be felt a lot more. Throwing grenades behind you with superspeed will still be a problem, but any class with good mobility, or a port + cc should be able to catch them. Just go hard as kitten on them and they won't have much to defend themself with.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Axl.8924]

6 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Even though I get where the OP is coming from, the current iteration of this scrapper build is toxic and unhealthy for the game. And I'm saying that as a long time engineer main with most hours on scrapper. I'll run through my thoughts a bit.

 

Yes, this scrapper build can be killed easily as long as you use your brain, AND if they don't mess up. They have 1 block, 1 stunbreak (2 of they use slick shoes instead of shredder gyro), a 1 second reflect and superspeed. Then they have stealth on a long cd, which is mostly used when trying to meme 1 shot people in stead of defensively. That's it. The only thing left is a 15k health pool with some barrier. If they wasted their stunbreak there only has to be one reaper to stun + chill them and it's literally over. They are very susceptible to pulls because outside of hammer 3 they have no on demand escape tools and mobility skills / ports. Another easy way to kill them is to condi bomb them. Ofc condi isn't really meta rn, but when I'm playing my condi soulbeast with a ton of evades, it's literally a free kill every time. Just evade their initial burst with griphon stance, dagger 4, shortbow 3, etc. and then bait the heal gyro toolbelt pulsing cleanse and then cc + condi burst them. Literally dead every time. That is, unless they are actually good scrappers that don't get baited like that, or come at you from stealth or in outnumbered situations. Which leads me to the next point.

 

This build is designed around omega giga bursting people from stealth with the possibility of landing grenade barrage (rather slow) + function gyro (rather instant) at almost the same time, while also stunning them with the delayed stun from blast gyro, while also stacking high levels of might, while also having stacked superspeed, while also having access to a gigatron amount of damage multipliers, while also inflicting high amounts of vulnerability and even traited weakness on stun/daze to prevent counterburst. All of that, in 1 very easy combo with minimal counterplay. You can kinda see what is happening here. This is why the build is toxic and unhealthy. On one hand you could say, okay this build does all that kitten at once, but dies after it has blown its load. But this is 5v5, not wvw. If the initial burst (from stealth) rounds up a kill immediately, that is HUGE value. You can immediately begin snowballing the map, outnumbering people, effectively rendering the builds weaknesses irrelevant because through deleting people so fast you can prevent becoming a target. Also don't forget that scrapper's burst options are all around the 20/25 second cd mark, so it's relatively easily recharged. This is different from for example sicem soulbeast, which has big cds on both sicem and one wolf pack. Scrapper is just a consistent machine of damage, both in burst and sustained. This makes it very good at snowballing the map.

 

The good scrappers will reliably land their one shots and have success in their +1's and through that prevent to become a target themself, especially when they are really good at kiting with about face while throwing nades backwards. The bad ones are literally fodder though, because they just walk into mid expecting to be a god and then fold like paper because the amount of defenses on this build are quite minimal. 

 

So in my opinion, the biggest problem is 3 things, which imo wouldn't be OP seperately, but become broken/toxic when together. 1: the long duration stealth allowing them to come in unseen with their team and having time to set up their full combo, 2: the amount of self generated boons (somewhat shaved with latest patch), 3: the insane amount of damage modifiers.

The biggest problem of these 3 is stealth gyro. As much as I hated seeing an iconic scrapper skill gutted in wvw, I think it was necessary and something similar (maybe not as extreme as the wvw nerf) needs to happen in pvp as well. The cd nerf isn't enough. It just enables too much degeneracy for the 5v5 mode. Without such long duration stealth it won't be as easy anymore to cheese 1 shots and to cause a snowball effect on the map. In turn, the scrappers will be more easily focussed and their weaknesses will be felt a lot more. Throwing grenades behind you with superspeed will still be a problem, but any class with good mobility, or a port + cc should be able to catch them. Just go hard as kitten on them and they won't have much to defend themself with.

I got a question: in 2017 was scrapper/core engi UP? I remember reliably farming a engi whenever i saw one i thought YES free bags.

Maybe it was 2018 i dunno but i just remember seeing scrapper and thinking: HMm i don't see many engis often and whenever i did it was ez farm.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Axl.8924

[Koensol.5860]

28 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

I got a question: in 2017 was scrapper/core engi UP? I remember reliably farming a engi whenever i saw one i thought YES free bags.

Maybe it was 2018 i dunno but i just remember seeing scrapper and thinking: HMm i don't see many engis often and whenever i did it was ez farm.

I didn't play in 2018 tbh, so I couldn't tell you. Although core engi never really was the strongest from what I can see. The 2020 patch also changed so much that it's a totally different ball game these days. Engineer in general isn't the most popular class as it's missing that classic fantasy aspect and has a bit more of a complicated design than many other classes, which scares people away. This is also the reason why whenever an easy nobrain build emerges for engineer (FT scrapper, nade scrapper), suddenly many players flock towards it.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:30 AM, Kstyle.5829 said:

4. Bad players lose duels (which don't matter at all) and cry on forums.

Duels do matter. It's extremely difficult for a team that simply can't win any fights (teamfights or duels) to control nodes long enough to win. I've seen that happen maybe two or three times over 6-7 years of playing, and those wins were more the fault of the other team really dropping the ball on recapping nodes.

If every single time you get caught in a 1v1 you die, that most certainly matters.

[StefanB.4928]

What Koensel says pretty much sums it up. You basicly rely on teammates being fast with their trigger finger to insta stunnbreak / dodge the initial burst. If you lose teammates early you risk getting snowballed. 

 

If your team manages to survive / predict the initial burst well enough u can can hunt the scrapper all game. 

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:40 AM, SlateSloan.3654 said:

I think the main problem causing the forum complains is that the game has become too fast over the years so the average player cant keep up with and enjoy it.

you need lot of training and studies by now to keep track about up to date builds, animations, train your own combos, etc. That given after every „balance update“ the number of „class xy is op“ outcry seems to increase cause the average player doesnt understand what is written in update notes to just be refreshed on game education after reading it.

leading to wild punching around, fast giving up, afk at spawn, griefing on each others.

back in the days pvp flaming was actually a verbal fight between two enemies, todays they hard spitting acid within their own teams trying to find the guilt for the loss etc.

yes, game has become too fast for the average.

not only pvp but also wvw. Losing 2-3 fights in a row and the enemy commander logs out.

they cant catch up anymore with the „elite“ as the gap has become way too big.

It's not so much that the game has become "too fast" so much as it's become too difficult to tell what's happening, and how so much power is no longer predicated on any kind of setup anyone can react to combined with powercreep negating any potential counterplay in the moment.

If your primary sources of damage are coming from skills covered by VFX and stealth and quickness or no animations/similar-looking animations, the player on the receiving end has no agency no matter how quickly they theoretically could react.  There's nothing to actually react to because you literally cannot even know what's happening in the fractions of the second prior.

If your enemy is not vulnerable in the moments leading up to and/or trailing  their unloading said burst patterns, such as through immunities, stealth, permanent stability, and superspeed, even if you DO manage to predict and negate the initial engagement, odds are you're stuck burning resources now just to follow-up despite having had the fight brought to you in the first place.  Defensive play is about following up while at a resource advantage from your enemy doing stuff to make an offensive play.  It is the riposte.  The issue is now that the state of the game has basically made it so that the resources just don't matter for a lot of builds out there.

And that there's an overwhelming disparity between the strength of the available build concepts/options.  The worst you could do prior to HoT was like... S/S power warrior, but at least FT had a crazy coefficient and the kit was relatively mobile and could deal with projectiles well and control a fight with immob and cripple.  And the best you could do was like... SA D/P thief or cele ele as duelists?  Thief gets hit with the immob and it died.  Daredevil mobility and DE stealth didn't exist.  Superspeed more or less didn't exist.  Applied Chill?  You changed the pace of the fight rather than someone's cooldowns being normalized versus otherwise non-existent through alacrity or the many forms of condition immunity/control effect cleansing that pervade the game.  It's all spam all the time and hope your opponent has some vulnerability in their build somewhere to dump your punish into.

The game was still really fast.  Prior to all this, DPS builds had to play Berserker statlines rather than thousands more HP with basically no damage losses from Marauder and similar options that set the baseline for stat efficacy beyond HoT.  People killed fast and died fast.  But the game did not reward risk-averse builds and the powercreep wasn't there to let people run around with impunity for extended periods while still dishing out huge damage.  At best it was stuff like Endure/Defy pain Warrior or SoS Bearbow ranger or SA thief to reset on.  Were these OP in the scope of the core game?  Yes.  Were they bad design?  Yes.  Were they overpowered in the modern context?  Not really and they were removed more because they were bad design more than actual raw power.  3 second power-damage-only immunity isn't even really that good these days.  And it was seen as super strong because fights ended in those three seconds back then because the game *was* fast.

It's not the speed.  It was fast, just you could actually react and counter and engage with your opponent, albeit quickly.  You don't need fights to be a slog to make them interesting; most people can react in under a second.  But you need to be given that heads up and be able to see what the opponent is actually doing.  Now, it's literally a measure of build strength slogging defenses and boons and how many sources of damage you can stack which don't have animations, can animation-cancel with, or pre-cast/buffer while immediately chaining into a defensive combo, rinse and repeat.  It's not fast; it's about denial of information, and that's like playing chess blindfolded.  There might be a novelty at the start, but it's just not fun.

Edited March 31, 2023 by DeceiverX.8361

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 3/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

"Your intent becomes to rob fun not to promote balance"....that's like every MMO forum these days....do you really think that keyboard warriors know anything about balance or equal playing field?

He says "forum warrior" but sits at 3.5k posts...

[Stalima.5490]

Also, Keep in mind it's not a single build we are talking about but a series of builds, it is a somewhat versatile general build as it has an entire slot that it uses for more or less anything at all.

 

Just in case anyone was wondering about inconsistancies.

[baseendje.8452]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:09 AM, AlPower.2476 said:

The problem is, scourge is not fixed, is dead

Fix is not equal to kill.

What is this scourge you are talking about? Never seen it (in pvp at least)...

[Zenix.6198]

Dunning-Kruger, I guess

[Kuma.1503]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:39 AM, Eugchriss.2046 said:

TThere is a thing called indirect evidence. In the case of mmo, one of these indirect evidence would be the sudden rise of players playing a specific class, weapon, etc... 

To keep to short, you don't have to play every class to know which class is OP and which one isn't. Huge amount of people suddenly playing scrapper indirectly proves that scrapper is OP in some way. For the same reason that you don't need to play core engi to know that it's trash.

 

Playrate =/= Strength. 

They are correlated, but one does not equate to the other. If someone found a wacky core condi engi build tomorrow and it got played in MAT, and it inspired a bunch of others to try it in ranked/unranked. That wouldn't make core engi OP all of a sudden. 

Lets say it was managing to kill people because most aren't used to fighting core condi engi. You'd have a build with a high playrate that was good at generating kills. You'd even have some convenient pistol buffs to point to as the cultrate for why it's suddenly broken. 

None of that changes how strong the build actually is, just people's perception of the build. 

The problem with current balance is that perception carries more weight than a build's actual power level does. 

 

[snowaron.3420]

When players complain and say PVP is toxic, I hope ppl watch Vallun's video in y2b before ranked at least.

To understand what means decap/play side/suitable component/CC and Cleanse/rotate/duelist

STOP 2 or 3 run home at beginning and all mid but even cant hold at least one point. or no one take cleanse or breakstun then feeding to necro and scrapper. They don't know how foo they are, and afking in furious.

[Dr Meta.3158]

Not everyone can be a company executive. Most people have to run the cash register. There's limited room at the top and plenty of space at the bottom. That's just the way things are.

If you want to climb up, you have to be competent and not everyone has that capability, drive, motivation, discipline, and mental fortitude.

This is why these forums exist. Come here and vent your frustrations. You'll never improve and your situation won't change but at least you'll feel a little better. No balance patch will ever fix incompetence.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:29 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Not everyone can be a company executive. Most people have to run the cash register. There's limited room at the top and plenty of space at the bottom. That's just the way things are.

If you want to climb up, you have to be competent and not everyone has that capability, drive, motivation, discipline, and mental fortitude.

This is why these forums exist. Come here and vent your frustrations. You'll never improve and your situation won't change but at least you'll feel a little better. No balance patch will ever fix incompetence.

My man is preaching the gospel out here and getting confused reacts. Get those off this post. Go 1v1 and stop crying on forums. Were tired of all that. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[Ghos.1326]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:31 AM, Koensol.5860 said:

Even though I get where the OP is coming from, the current iteration of this scrapper build is toxic and unhealthy for the game. And I'm saying that as a long time engineer main with most hours on scrapper. I'll run through my thoughts a bit.

 

Yes, this scrapper build can be killed easily as long as you use your brain, AND if they don't mess up. They have 1 block, 1 stunbreak (2 of they use slick shoes instead of shredder gyro), a 1 second reflect and superspeed. Then they have stealth on a long cd, which is mostly used when trying to meme 1 shot people in stead of defensively. That's it. The only thing left is a 15k health pool with some barrier. If they wasted their stunbreak there only has to be one reaper to stun + chill them and it's literally over. They are very susceptible to pulls because outside of hammer 3 they have no on demand escape tools and mobility skills / ports. Another easy way to kill them is to condi bomb them. Ofc condi isn't really meta rn, but when I'm playing my condi soulbeast with a ton of evades, it's literally a free kill every time. Just evade their initial burst with griphon stance, dagger 4, shortbow 3, etc. and then bait the heal gyro toolbelt pulsing cleanse and then cc + condi burst them. Literally dead every time. That is, unless they are actually good scrappers that don't get baited like that, or come at you from stealth or in outnumbered situations. Which leads me to the next point.

 

This build is designed around omega giga bursting people from stealth with the possibility of landing grenade barrage (rather slow) + function gyro (rather instant) at almost the same time, while also stunning them with the delayed stun from blast gyro, while also stacking high levels of might, while also having stacked superspeed, while also having access to a gigatron amount of damage multipliers, while also inflicting high amounts of vulnerability and even traited weakness on stun/daze to prevent counterburst. All of that, in 1 very easy combo with minimal counterplay. You can kinda see what is happening here. This is why the build is toxic and unhealthy. On one hand you could say, okay this build does all that kitten at once, but dies after it has blown its load. But this is 5v5, not wvw. If the initial burst (from stealth) rounds up a kill immediately, that is HUGE value. You can immediately begin snowballing the map, outnumbering people, effectively rendering the builds weaknesses irrelevant because through deleting people so fast you can prevent becoming a target. Also don't forget that scrapper's burst options are all around the 20/25 second cd mark, so it's relatively easily recharged. This is different from for example sicem soulbeast, which has big cds on both sicem and one wolf pack. Scrapper is just a consistent machine of damage, both in burst and sustained. This makes it very good at snowballing the map.

 

The good scrappers will reliably land their one shots and have success in their +1's and through that prevent to become a target themself, especially when they are really good at kiting with about face while throwing nades backwards. The bad ones are literally fodder though, because they just walk into mid expecting to be a god and then fold like paper because the amount of defenses on this build are quite minimal. 

 

So in my opinion, the biggest problem is 3 things, which imo wouldn't be OP seperately, but become broken/toxic when together. 1: the long duration stealth allowing them to come in unseen with their team and having time to set up their full combo, 2: the amount of self generated boons (somewhat shaved with latest patch), 3: the insane amount of damage modifiers.

The biggest problem of these 3 is stealth gyro. As much as I hated seeing an iconic scrapper skill gutted in wvw, I think it was necessary and something similar (maybe not as extreme as the wvw nerf) needs to happen in pvp as well. The cd nerf isn't enough. It just enables too much degeneracy for the 5v5 mode. Without such long duration stealth it won't be as easy anymore to cheese 1 shots and to cause a snowball effect on the map. In turn, the scrappers will be more easily focussed and their weaknesses will be felt a lot more. Throwing grenades behind you with superspeed will still be a problem, but any class with good mobility, or a port + cc should be able to catch them. Just go hard as kitten on them and they won't have much to defend themself with.

To piggyback off this, one of their grenade skills is also unblockable, which in my opinion shouldn't exist for a kit based around dealing area damage. This unblockable skill can completely throw off defensive reactions, as the effect is strong in and of itself (poison, 33% reduced healing from all sources) while also dealing some decent damage. I think the unblockable effect of this skill should be removed, the blast gyro skill needs a cooldown increase from 25-35 or even 40s, stealth gyro in pvp may also either need a cd increase or a duration decrease....this should put it in a much healthier spot, as it will emphasise the burst aspect of the build: one big burst but the lack of consistent damage after said burst.

[Dr Meta.3158]

I wouldn't even do all that. The only thing I'd do is reduce superspeed from 100% to 83% and change stealth gyro into another skill entirely. Something that fits the bruiser role. From there not only scrapper is fixed but all those types of builds are fixed.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:29 AM, Kstyle.5829 said:

For everyone on the forums who whines about losing to classes, why is your first instinct that the class is overpowered? They are just basing their opinions off the fact they are losing fights against it. So we have people who are just playing unranked games who think they know about class balance, even though they only play 1 class and are bad at that class. If you really wanted to see if a class was strong or weak, you can't just have an emotional reaction to losing.   It would be better to try the class yourself, but even that is subjective. Noobs cry on forums an ANET tries to appease the masses. 

The problem is low population when super old veterans are in the same games as new & casual. The new & casual don't know the game well enough to realize when they are losing to the player and not the class. Then they come to the forum with all forms of inapplicable complaints vs. their own l2p issues because they don't know any better. If they knew any better, they'd realize they should be complaining about the match making and not middled-tired classes/builds.

Start the video in this link at 5:30 and watch just the first match. > GW2 PvP Sic Em Soulbeast play - Twitch

What do you think those people were thinking by the end of that game after losing a 5v4? Probably how Soulbeast is the most unholy OP thing in the entire game, which is just simply not true at all.

In other words, the large majority of players have an unrealistic gauge on what is actually OP and what isn't, due to limitations in experience & mechanical ability. These are the kind of people who lose a game to a veteran Necro or S/D Thief and then come in here and tell us how OP it is.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 4/15/2023 at 5:20 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The problem is low population when super old veterans are in the same games as new & casual. The new & casual don't know the game well enough to realize when they are losing to the player and not the class. Then they come to the forum with all forms of inapplicable complaints vs. their own l2p issues because they don't know any better. If they knew any better, they'd realize they should be complaining about the match making and not middled-tired classes/builds.

Start the video in this link at 5:30 and watch just the first match. > GW2 PvP Sic Em Soulbeast play - Twitch

What do you think those people were thinking by the end of that game after losing a 5v4? Probably how Soulbeast is the most unholy OP thing in the entire game, which is just simply not true at all.

In other words, the large majority of players have an unrealistic gauge on what is actually OP and what isn't, due to limitations in experience & mechanical ability. These are the kind of people who lose a game to a veteran Necro or S/D Thief and then come in here and tell us how OP it is.

This is it right here.

Many people are too new to know any better and many people don't strive to get any better so their perspective is capped at a low level of resolution.

I've been there and I'm pretty sure many others have been there too. Things I thought were overpowered and busted are now trivial and easy to deal with. I went from the mindset early on to "such and such needs a nerf and my class needs a buff to handle that" to, "I need to refine my build some to be able to handle this situation while being generally effective at my role". That along with lots of practice against different matchups lead me to accelerating far past other players over the course of covid (yay work from home).

Then that left me in the situation of seeing other people doing what I used to do but can't or won't get unstuck from that mentality. No amount of reason or evidence will move them from that detrimental mindset and so sadly they will always underperform and blame everyone except themselves for it. Ie: the victim mentality. Not much you can do except keep steam rolling them in games while they cry on the forums.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no balance patch that will fix incompetence.