Please broaden the participation parameters for defend events

[Aerthan.1907]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:11 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 I feel like this could be simply solved by giving credit to destroying enemy siege since it plays a role in either attacking or defending anything anyways.

 

 

That won't help if the siege is too far from the tower.

While I think it would be great to give credit to anyone who damages anyone who is close enough to the tower, I wish they would just fix the current bug. People and downing attackers inside a tower and getting loot bags and credit for the kill and there is an active timer going and they aren't getting credit. We see it constantly and the percentages are not great, it's definitely less than 50% of the time you get credit for the defense even with multiple downs.

[Coldtart.4785]

All these attempts to muck with how rewards are given out to 'prevent exploitation' completely miss the root cause of non-tradable items that are exclusive to wvw. This leads to players that know they don't want to play wvw coming in with the goal of getting their items without spending any more time or effort than they have to in doing things they don't enjoy.

The best solution I can see is to stop making complicated participation systems that punish players that actually want to play wvw and allow some of the sources of wvw-exclusive items to be traded, making them available enough that someone that doesn't want to play wvw can simply aim to buy the items while also limited enough that someone that is willing to play wvw can benefit from getting the items at a lower cost.

[LSD.4673]

47 minutes ago, Aerthan.1907 said:

We see it constantly and the percentages are not great, it's definitely less than 50% of the time you get credit for the defense even with multiple downs.

I thought it was some weird mechanic where the player you killed has to have been attacking the tower or something dumb like that when the defence didn't get participation, but no, it is yet another bug. Had a guy defending with me where we both scored kills together yet he never got his daily.

Maybe it's a hidden mechanic where you're actively disqualified from participation if you repair a strcuture...

[Thea Cherry.6327]

On 4/2/2023 at 3:00 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Tbh that would just mean there will be no supply in objectives after an attack.

So where is the change from right now? xD

 

But on a serious note, the supplies should be back to pre nerf, because they were never a problem to begin with. Dunno who complaint about them, but i have a slight feeling it was a person with 3 letters starting with R. xD

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

Anyone attacking a guard, lord, wall or gate gets an aura for that location that lasts a certain amount of time. Anyone within a certain short range of a person with that aura gets the aura as well. The aura drops off after 30 seconds or so.

 

Anyone who participates in a kill of anyone with that aura gets a defensive credit for that location. Regardless of whether the kill takes place in the immediate vicinity of the location or not. So if they are using catas from distance and you kill them, you get defensive credit.

 

I'd still want them to sort out giving credit for repairs, building defensive siege etc, but that's a whole other story.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

3 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Anyone attacking a guard, lord, wall or gate gets an aura for that location that lasts a certain amount of time. Anyone within a certain short range of a person with that aura gets the aura as well. The aura drops off after 30 seconds or so.

 

Anyone who participates in a kill of anyone with that aura gets a defensive credit for that location. Regardless of whether the kill takes place in the immediate vicinity of the location or not. So if they are using catas from distance and you kill them, you get defensive credit.

 

I'd still want them to sort out giving credit for repairs, building defensive siege etc, but that's a whole other story.

So you're facing a group of say 25 at Hills, they've dropped 3 catas. Of that group perhaps 5 tagged the rush of guards after outer drops. 5 more players were close enough to get the aura. So you have 30 seconds to attack 10+3 players in order to get defense credit? It's going to take more than 30 seconds to drop inner so that aura is gone (except on the 3 on the catas) leaving a final window of the Lord's room where all 25 should have the aura while trying to down the Lord?

What a crock of kitten system this is besides the bugs.

I can see their "logic" in the Lord room to a degree, but as is always the case they go about doing things in the most convoluted fashion.

Why do they feel the need to penalise WvW players for playing the kittening game. Why do they feel we shouldn't be rewarded in any tangible way? Look at the first few days when the scaling rewards were introduced and we got supply bags, quickly changed to heavy loot bags. Don't we also need kittening materials for legendaries? Don't we also need gold? 8G for weeklies is a joke. Drop rates are a joke. Bugs are a joke. Their balancing is a joke. Their rationale for everything is a joke.

The Joker is not amused. Seriously, kitten these guys.

[Xenesis.6389]

What they should do is place an invisible debuff marker on any players who get into range of an objective (like how mark works from watchtower but have it always on within the range), and if any of those invisible marked players are killed or kill in that area while white swords are on, they get credit for the associated defense or attack events.

So yes even if you die as a defender you would at minimum get bronze credit for the defense event, more if you actually kill enemies and all the other stuff we currently do now for credit. But dying should not stack any more credit beyond the first, so we don't encourage lemming game play, you die once you get base credit, do everything else for more.

Problem solved.

Rejoice.

Only.

It won't happen.

Cause.

Anet.

🤔

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

18 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

So you're facing a group of say 25 at Hills, they've dropped 3 catas. Of that group perhaps 5 tagged the rush of guards after outer drops. 5 more players were close enough to get the aura. So you have 30 seconds to attack 10+3 players in order to get defense credit? It's going to take more than 30 seconds to drop inner so that aura is gone (except on the 3 on the catas) leaving a final window of the Lord's room where all 25 should have the aura while trying to down the Lord?

What a crock of kitten system this is besides the bugs.

I can see their "logic" in the Lord room to a degree, but as is always the case they go about doing things in the most convoluted fashion.

Why do they feel the need to penalise WvW players for playing the kittening game. Why do they feel we shouldn't be rewarded in any tangible way? Look at the first few days when the scaling rewards were introduced and we got supply bags, quickly changed to heavy loot bags. Don't we also need kittening materials for legendaries? Don't we also need gold? 8G for weeklies is a joke. Drop rates are a joke. Bugs are a joke. Their balancing is a joke. Their rationale for everything is a joke.

The Joker is not amused. Seriously, kitten these guys.

 

Once the aura is up, it will keep refreshing. Because people on catas will still be hitting the walls, resetting their aura and passing that onto the people around them. So as long as they are attacking the objective in a group, they get the aura. Same with the lord. Actively playing as you attack gets the aura, players around that can't actively attack get it passively.

 

Attacking any other players defending the keep would do the same thing.

 

I'd suggest reading and understanding a post before suggesting it's a "crock".

[MarzAttakz.9608]

35 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

 

Once the aura is up, it will keep refreshing. Because people on catas will still be hitting the walls, resetting their aura and passing that onto the people around them. So as long as they are attacking the objective in a group, they get the aura. Same with the lord. Actively playing as you attack gets the aura, players around that can't actively attack get it passively.

 

Attacking any other players defending the keep would do the same thing.

 

I'd suggest reading and understanding a post before suggesting it's a "crock".

Not your post, rather the system you were describing. If it worked we wouldn't be having these issues which have only become apparent after the removal of repairing. So either it's been broken for almost a decade or it's a new bug they've introduced. That, together with the collective changes made recently are what I define as a crock of you know what.

Eagerly waiting to see what's going to happen when they finally introduce their scaling attack event - if defence is problematic right now, just imagine the complaints when only a couple of the attackers are awarded gold participation.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:00 AM, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

Eagerly waiting to see what's going to happen when they finally introduce their scaling attack event - if defence is problematic right now, just imagine the complaints when only a couple of the attackers are awarded gold participation.

Have Xen's popcorn ready but yeah wouldn't mind seeing an update on where that is so we could see how the other side of the coin impacts defending and supply amounts and such.

[Aerthan.1907]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:03 PM, LSD.4673 said:

I thought it was some weird mechanic where the player you killed has to have been attacking the tower or something dumb like that when the defence didn't get participation, but no, it is yet another bug. Had a guy defending with me where we both scored kills together yet he never got his daily.

Maybe it's a hidden mechanic where you're actively disqualified from participation if you repair a strcuture...

 

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with a player attacking anything. We leave afk people alive inside towers when we take them, then wait for the timer to start. Multiple people will down the same player and only that player. Everyone will get xp for the kill, many will get a loot bag. It looks like that puts you in the lottery for defense credit because less than half the people that had everything go right (even getting a loot bag) will get credit. We've seen it countless times. It's a bug, there is no way to deny it. It's embarrassing that ANET took away the only 100% guaranteed way to get that credit (repair) and haven't even acknowledged this bug.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Aerthan.1907

[IndigoSundown.5419]

More anecdotal evidence about what a travesty defending has become.  Defense of T3 Bay keep: defend event procced 4 times; my weekly kill count went from 21 to 49; no Keep Keeper credit.  Meanwhile, my roommate was at the same event and got credit 2x for the defend event.

 

So, if you have to kill enemies who damaged the structure or did enough damage to a guard to pass some unknown threshold, how do I know which member(s) of the 40 person blob constantly shrouded in visual effects to kill?

 

Fix the farce, please.

[babana.7521]

Dear Dyawna please do not bring back the repair leechers. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

Dear Dyawna please do not bring back the repair leechers. 

🙂 So you just tagged 10 and 50 died, so should there be an event reward in your logic for attack or defend? Repair is not the topic here, killing a side and bugs indicating you weren't even there is. So why are you defending fighting is not active gameplay? I don't even pay attention to rewards, but after peeps pointed issues out can agree now afterwards we have some serious bugs. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:12 PM, Aerthan.1907 said:

 

That won't help if the siege is too far from the tower.

While I think it would be great to give credit to anyone who damages anyone who is close enough to the tower, I wish they would just fix the current bug. People and downing attackers inside a tower and getting loot bags and credit for the kill and there is an active timer going and they aren't getting credit. We see it constantly and the percentages are not great, it's definitely less than 50% of the time you get credit for the defense even with multiple downs.

We already have zones of control for gliding; they could apply to defense area too.

Right now I'm pretty sure it doesn't go out very far out of the objective, but who really knows how it applies atm. Heck, I killed someone attacking a camp and got nothing, probably because the timer expired and the guards were dead so no aggro.

[MedievalThings.5417]

For defense events, I make sure that I get multiple kills inside the structure.  I don't stray further than maybe 10 feet outside whatever needs defending.  I only get credit for the defense event maybe 1 out of 10 defenses.  We had a keep defense Monday that I probably got 25 kills (more than 5k dmg on each target, some solo kills), killed at least 4 catapults and 1 balista.  The fight lasted about 5 minutes (so 2 defense events) and I didn't get credit for either.

 

Yeah, this seriously needs to be addressed.

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:00 AM, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

Not your post, rather the system you were describing. If it worked we wouldn't be having these issues which have only become apparent after the removal of repairing. So either it's been broken for almost a decade or it's a new bug they've introduced. That, together with the collective changes made recently are what I define as a crock of you know what.

Eagerly waiting to see what's going to happen when they finally introduce their scaling attack event - if defence is problematic right now, just imagine the complaints when only a couple of the attackers are awarded gold participation.

They will give every attacker credit, because Anet wants people to take things.  What they do NOT want is people defending.   And, it shows. 

 

Imagine the uproar if standing in the ring to cap didn't guarantee credit, because you didn't kill a guard or player.  That's the issue with defense credit, most aren't getting it no matter what they do.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Ubi.4136

[Neathra.1950]

6 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

They will give every attacker credit, because Anet wants people to take things.  What they do NOT want is people defending.   And, it shows. 

 

Imagine the uproar if standing in the ring to cap didn't guarantee credit, because you didn't kill a guard or player.  That's the issue with defense credit, most aren't getting it no matter what they do.

 

I just wish they'd own it and remove defending associated achievements. Today is Daily Defender and it sends me into a micro rage because its become so specific to get. 

[babana.7521]

All the negativity in this thread,

Here is a positive one: After the weekly was activated, I personally see more players actually try to defend objectives, I do know tower defender is the harder to achieve, I am very sure all the bugs will be dealt with accordingly 

Before we have weekly, it was usually 1-3 players in an objective repairing wall that is actively being destroy, when they ran out of supply only will there be call out for help, at which time, almost always it is a lost. 

Last but not least. I like players actually care enough to want to defend objectives instead of players whose main objective is to repair wall for easy rewards. 

Therefore when you fix this please do not bring repairing back as a means to complete a defend. Thank you.

Edited April 14, 2023 by babana.7521

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

12 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

I am very sure all the bugs will be dealt with accordingly 
 

We can all only hope, but their track record with wvw items is as successful as tower defenses are today.

[MedievalThings.5417]

3 hours ago, Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

We can all only hope, but their track record with wvw items is as successful as tower defenses are today.

Yeah, I started submitting bug reports with Path of Fire launch that the oil trait was broken.  It didn't get fixed until this year.  I don't have high hopes for this.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Just spent the better part of two hours chasing today's Objective Defender daily.  Wanted to make a montage but the recording glitched out.

Things it would have shown:

• Charged solo against two enemies on the lord in an EBG tower.  One fled, while I downed the other.  It was an Ele so it mistformed over the wall landing just outside.  I finished it during the event timer.  No Defender daily when the event ended.
• Went "two" versus four against enemies heading to another tower lord.  Two, if one counts the no-mount core ranger with a fern hound who stood back spamming Barrage and auto attacking.  Enemies had Tempest support, but I essentially dueled the core Mesmer that was peeling for his allies who focused on the lord, occasionally approaching to support their ally.  I downed him as he stealthed and ported into his allies.  Desperate for the kill, I followed.  The tower was captured just before I stepped into the capture zone.  I stealthed and bailed, lucky to escape.  No daily.
• Led attack with two friendlies who were mostly hugging walls against three enemies plus two catapults that had opened their outer Gari which we controlled.  Downed enemy Ranger three times but Smokescale and enemy Firebrand kept picking him up.  Eventually had both Ranger and Firebrand downed but they either rallied or the third person picked them up as I desperately tried to cleave.  Then they got me.  Friendly ranger bailed even as the Firebrand was 10%.  This skirmish all occurred right outside outer Gari wall during the defend event.
• I ran all the way back north from southern spawn to find enemies on the lord.  I solo killed two rangers during the defend event, with the help of NPCs.  Repaired both walls to 16.  With help of a couple friendlies, engaged four enemies still on the catapults.  I chased a Ranger back outside.  I played peek-a-book with a core Guardian using the entry portal until he ran alone towards inner gate.  I bursted him down and let the NPCs finish him while the event was going.
• I returned to the enemies at the catapults, a Mesmer and Spellbreaker.  Killed the Mesmer.  Spellbreaker ran away.
• Watched nervously as the defend event timer ticked down.  When it ended, no daily.
• Changed maps to EBG.  Joined three or four friendlies skirming with about five enemies plus two catas right outside north SMC outer.  Destroyed catapults but couldn't get any kills.  Enemies left.  No daily.
• Looked at the time and cursed the buggy Objective Defender daily.  Told myself it's not worth it.  Daily still incomplete.

*Sigh*

[Markus.6492]

Since your crappy adjustments, the defense events, despite kills and WEP earnings, are not rated.
Repairing also brings nothing.

FIX THE S.H.I.T

Edited April 18, 2023 by Markus.6492

[rotor.5729]

Today I participated in killing about 30 attackers INSIDE the keep within 4 ticks or so, got wep, drops- but not the daily. Don't get it what to do to get this kitten. This is just one of many examples this happend to me and my wife the last weeks. Takes a lot of fun out of the game, when things get that frustrating.

EDIT: Yeah make kitten out your S.H.I.T - pretty sure this helps.

Edited April 18, 2023 by rotor.5729

[Aerthan.1907]

SMC doesn't count as a keep, so defending SMC won't give you any kind of weekly help.