About encounter design 🙄

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

2 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Well put. That's exactly why we don't get more raid encounters, as it's not worth doing if it's 1/10 people.

Or they should give our allies npcs , the ability to spam Stability like raids to ignore most ccs .

This is how you make people "ready for raids" like most Raiders expect from the OWers

Spoiler

(more hardcore stuff like Soon-won , so people git gud and , combining with LI-easy builds so they wont get intimatating from going Raids and revive them)

, rather than simpoly having non-instant cc in Stories and have a clear progression of Story>OW>instance content like other games 😛

Edited April 4, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Pirogen.9561]

GW2 has many so called "game modes". PvP, WvW, etc. Its kinda known, that you need a different build for a specific "game mode".

PvE, by the way is not just one. You have fractals, raids, strikes. And you also have Open World. Its a different "game mode". So, you need a different build.

One characteristics of GW2 is, that Open World is "end game" content. Any lvl 80 maps is "end game" content. Its not just map for story, or some eazy buffer zone on the way to where Raid is. No, its legit end game stuff.

And just as you have to have a solid build, and learn how to do fractals or raids of WvW or <insert game mode>, you have to do it for Open World.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Part of it is game design (ANet should put mobs with CC leading up to the boss so you have a stun break/stability on your bar)
But
Another part is on the players to actually change their skills.  Take a minor DPS loss to have stability in some manner. ANet can't control what players do.

 

GW2 is about swapping your skills to the situation.  Changing your build and skills are both free.

[Funky.4861]

If every class had equal access to stability this would not be an issue. But they don't, and those which don't need to find another way to deal with the effect. If you're used to playing that class you should know what that is (eg: shroud for necros) but if you're taking a class you don't know that well it can be frustrating.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 4/2/2023 at 6:56 PM, Rauderi.8706 said:

tldr - Can we just stop with the insta-cast knockback/CC obsession already?  

Just something that's cropped up in the latest zone / story. Again. And it's just so, so tiresome.  

Gunners with no-tell knockbacks every <10 seconds, that midboss in Deep Trouble with a no-tell knockback every 5 seconds. If you don't want your players to play, just tell us. 

And spare me the "just dodge" nonsense, because the attacks are instacast, or the "use Stability", which is a joke because it doesn't last long enough nor has enough uptime to deal with the constant, constant CC abuse. It's a complaint that comes up very often, and yet the devs still aren't checking or designing for this. 

OP, this is just how gw2's combat system is. A sloppy, unstructured action combat system where you have insta-cast skills that come with no warning. That is: AoEs, CCs, personal buffs, skills triggered via traits and targeted skills. On top of that, a lot of these insta-cast skills can be cast while moving, which pretty much benefits more mobile classes. And, OP, this is just pve you encountered. You go into the pvp modes (spvp/wvw) and (oh believe me) the problem is ten times worse. Players will abuse all those insta-cast mechanics. Some classes are better than others in this.

This is coming from an 11-year player, by the way. It's one reason why I don't play gw2 as much anymore. Frankly, unlike gw1, gw2's combat system has not aged well over the years.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

If every class had equal access to stability this would not be an issue. But they don't, and those which don't need to find another way to deal with the effect. If you're used to playing that class you should know what that is (eg: shroud for necros) but if you're taking a class you don't know that well it can be frustrating.

Every class has ways to deal with CC.  Yes some have more than others, but some classes also have more active evasion frames than others as well.

Also

4 hours ago, Funky.4861 said:

 but if you're taking a class you don't know that well it can be frustrating.

Then this is a skill issue at this point.  If a player doesn't know their skills, the issue lies with them, not the game.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

15 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Take a minor DPS loss to have stability in some manner. ANet can't control what players do.

Considering that Anet many times over introduced cc mechanic that are designed to either overwhelm stab, or flat out ignore it (or changed existing mechanics to that end), i'd say that they have succesfully taught players that stab is useless veeery long ago.

[Shuzuru.3651]

12 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Considering that Anet many times over introduced cc mechanic that are designed to either overwhelm stab, or flat out ignore it (or changed existing mechanics to that end), i'd say that they have succesfully taught players that stab is useless veeery long ago.

I'm curious, do you have any exemple of both of that?

Because I don't remember any one for the first one, and the only thing I see for the second is "scenario cc" and Deimos's pizza, which are heavily telegraphed

[Gibson.4036]

Did Gyala last night and the place I had trouble was the early stages of the meta.
 

Along the escort there are lots of foes who died fast, in the middle of a lot of visual noise. It’s hard to even tell what I’m fighting let alone see any tells or know when I should be using stab.

Mostly everyone just gets knocked back, pops back up and keeps melting the enemies.

I’m not sure how much Inspiring Reinforcement would have helped since there’s a lot of movement from enemy clump to enemy clump, keeping players from staying in the pulsing field.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Considering that Anet many times over introduced cc mechanic that are designed to either overwhelm stab, or flat out ignore it (or changed existing mechanics to that end), i'd say that they have succesfully taught players that stab is useless veeery long ago.

I feel like we're playing different games.  My open world build has one source of stability (but not 100% accessible because weaver) and one stunbreak (also not really accessible because it's used as an offensive utility).  I rely on extra evades, blocks, and invuln on my weapons instead.  It seems fine to me.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

jade brotherhood sharpshooters tend to alternate between 2 skills depending on range - a knockdown round after some 3-4s channel (good luck counting that amidst other things), and either rifle butt (the no telegraph cc) in melee or a boring 2-3 round burst at range

i wont deny that i get ragdolled from time to time... but it personally doesnt bother me because the mobs hit like wet noodles compared to earlier content and the cc ends up being hardly lethal

those sharpshooters do have the legitimately have the capacity to cc twice every ~5s on melee characters though, and i can see how it might be annoying given a mob with at least 30k hp (60-70k for vets) grouped with other mobs with their own cc vs players potentially dealing <2k dps. however it doesnt really raise a red flag to me and i see as more of a quirk the mob just happens to have (e.g. everyone hopefully remembers that risen brutes back in the core game have a knockdown they really like to use... 🤔)

[AliamRationem.5172]

45 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

jade brotherhood sharpshooters tend to alternate between 2 skills depending on range - a knockdown round after some 3-4s channel (good luck counting that amidst other things), and either rifle butt (the no telegraph cc) in melee or a boring 2-3 round burst at range

i wont deny that i get ragdolled from time to time... but it personally doesnt bother me because the mobs hit like wet noodles compared to earlier content and the cc ends up being hardly lethal

those sharpshooters do have the legitimately have the capacity to cc twice every ~5s on melee characters though, and i can see how it might be annoying given a mob with at least 30k hp (60-70k for vets) grouped with other mobs with their own cc vs players potentially dealing <2k dps. however it doesnt really raise a red flag to me and i see as more of a quirk the mob just happens to have (e.g. everyone hopefully remembers that risen brutes back in the core game have a knockdown they really like to use... 🤔)

This isn't much different from the mordrem snipers.  They also have a melee knockback that isn't really telegraphed and they do it when they have an enemy at melee range.  So you know that if you move into melee to engage and don't CC them that they're going to kick you as soon as they finish their previous action.  

So, I'm in agreement here.  You don't need a big red circle or obvious windup in order to predict enemy behavior with these attacks and if you're dealing appropriate damage they shouldn't be able to attempt multiple CCs.

[Misterbrady.2167]

In my opinion, what makes mechanics interesting, fun, and fair are when there is a 'tell', it can be countered, and is consistent.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

This isn't much different from the mordrem snipers.  They also have a melee knockback that isn't really telegraphed and they do it when they have an enemy at melee range.  So you know that if you move into melee to engage and don't CC them that they're going to kick you as soon as they finish their previous action.  

So, I'm in agreement here.  You don't need a big red circle or obvious windup in order to predict enemy behavior with these attacks and if you're dealing appropriate damage they shouldn't be able to attempt multiple CCs.

Suure, if only those snipers were alone, and not parts of big packs (especially in Dragon Stand), where their very existence (much less actions) are covered by multitude of other effects.

[AliamRationem.5172]

57 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Suure, if only those snipers were alone, and not parts of big packs (especially in Dragon Stand), where their very existence (much less actions) are covered by multitude of other effects.

I guess my perspective is just very different, but trash mobs are a non-issue for me.  Packs of enemies in Drizzlewood or DS, night events in VB, the southwatch events in AB, chak swarm event at SCAR camp in TD.  I solo it all and I don't feel like I am struggling with CC despite playing a melee build with hardly any stab or stunbreaks.  Weaver OP I guess?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Considering that Anet many times over introduced cc mechanic that are designed to either overwhelm stab, or flat out ignore it (or changed existing mechanics to that end), i'd say that they have succesfully taught players that stab is useless veeery long ago.

You can only lose one stack of stability a second.  If your boons get corrupted that's an entirely different story.    This fight is hardly the CC spamfest that is Silverwastes or some dungeon bosses.

[Polar.8634]

stop taking raid/fractal build to open world and you are good, you dont have support, take some stunbreak, stub, cleanse, every class has it. i never had problems with condi or cc in openworld, i play most classes. 

[the krytan assassin.9235]

I'd 100% prefer encounters with less visual clutter and less random boonrip/cc and focus more on avoidable blockable attacks and punish the players alot more when they fail the mechanic. It would make up for alot more interesting fight then the current tank & spank meta from most encounters. 

[prototypedragon.1406]

Most would probably say get good in this situation in all honesty.  There are many different options that one can do to improve their effectiveness against these foes whether it is asking others for help with them or asking ones guild for help (Guild Wars2 ? Kinda rings a few bells and whistles 🤯) it could be even simple as adjusting ones trait lines slightly or slapping on a few pieces of equipment that boosts your vitality toughness or healing power depending on what you need. Alot of times with tank stats pve stuff tends to be a snooze fest as it is. If the enemies are more challenging then it gives you more chances to show yourself how much you have improved whether if it is full glass cannon,condition spam, or boonamenjaro. If every single enemy was a skritt would there be a point to play the other maps or stories if it is just a eternal skritt war? I grow up defeating skritts by the thousands as they stand there as I slap  them with with weapon skills. I finally reach max level aha a level 80 skritt. This skritt does the same thing and I dispatch it quickly. I then begin to wonder why I wasted my time playing when it's just a skritt that has a higher number attached with the same skills or predictable abilities. It would be like all maps were a literal copy of the map any player dislikes the most.  

[Burnfall.9573]

On 4/2/2023 at 6:56 PM, Rauderi.8706 said:

tldr - Can we just stop with the insta-cast knockback/CC obsession already?  

Just something that's cropped up in the latest zone / story. Again. And it's just so, so tiresome.  

Gunners with no-tell knockbacks every <10 seconds, that midboss in Deep Trouble with a no-tell knockback every 5 seconds. If you don't want your players to play, just tell us. 

And spare me the "just dodge" nonsense, because the attacks are instacast, or the "use Stability", which is a joke because it doesn't last long enough nor has enough uptime to deal with the constant, constant CC abuse. It's a complaint that comes up very often, and yet the devs still aren't checking or designing for this. 

 

(I was asked to post this in the bug forum, I replied why? WvW is buried with years of Toxic designs with endless  abuse and Anet allows it to continue)

'You teach players how to treat the game by what you allow, by what you anticipate, by what you participate, by what you encourage and by what you tolerate... to continue"

Edited April 7, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[JTGuevara.9018]

I also want to add: for the skills that do have warnings, they are easily missed because of the visual effects of other skills or the obnoxious amount of lighting that other skins give out.