Anvils & Protocols : These mandatory buffs we are tired to stack and refresh

[Gemlawid.1948]

It would be so great, if these buffs were just removed from the game ! I believe it would please everybody and i'm sure it would be easy.

- Anvil's buff (reinforced armor) : Increases health and defense (12h).
We have to ensure this buff is active. It's frustrating when you realize you are playing without it for hours, because you forgot its existence. Of course it's not a big deal, but it still is a useless thing to think about that could just be deleted in a minute.
Just increase the player's base armor and health, done ! Useless npc gone, useless buff on bar gone, useless worrying gone !

- Jade tech offensive/defensive protocol (blabla Overcharge) : +150 vitality, +150 toughness, +150 power, +150 condition damage and ... EVERY BOON NON-STOP !!! For 2 hours !
This is just too much ! It's so mandatory and overpowered ! But the problem is that you have to find 9 batteries (with masteries), to get 18 charges (9 of each), and use these charges at the Jade tech Offensive protocol, then at the defensive one. We are losing so much time and effort stacking those buffs. And the worst part, is that we can bring those buffs everywhere in open world, so we have to go back to an EoD map to refresh them if we want to enjoy our full potential. And fun fact, the new territory, Gyala Delve in EoD, has no protocol to get buffs. We have to stack them on an other map before going there. It's boring and it's losing everyone's time, there are so many protocols and batteries on EoD maps it looks like pollution, and it's definitively polluting our buff bar.
The best improvement would be to transfer this system to the Jade Bot masteries/equipment so we just receive boons and stats in openworld period. No need to waste 5 minutes and 2 tp (loading screens and 20 silver). If this first suggestion is too extreme, you can merge both protocols (offensive and defensive) in an all-in-one version, 2 battery charges = 2 hours. BOOM done !

- Gyala's Air filter (30 jade bot filters) : Nothing ... Just a useless buff that should never exist out of a quest.
Please stop it. Just stop. We don't need and we don't want an other buff !

We can enjoy the game without this system, don't worry ! We are already high on dopamine ! You removed armor reparation, so you understand how useless this system is. Now it's time to remove it completely.

[Endaris.1452]

Oh, guess I played the game wrong all this time, not charging my protocols. I would have thought they get removed outside of EoD but apparently not which is like completely crazy? I would prefer if it was like that honestly cause I can still see how they help a lot with stuff like EoD meta.
Making them permanent via Jade bot masteries would just straight up ruin the game so miss me with that.

I lowkey agree with the anvil things but knowing anets spaghetti code there must be thousands of anvils and repair guys in this game that would need to get touched manually just to remove them from existence. It would also complicate the situation with instant repair canisters bought from the gem store that were already made borderline useless with the update. So I can empathize with the decision to not just take them out of the game. 12h playtime are also really generous of an uptime and as mentioned, these things are literally everywhere. There is even a heckin' raid mastery related to these. So many problems to solve for something that is really really insignificant (much more than the EoD thingies at least).

Edited May 25, 2023 by Endaris.1452

[Danikat.8537]

I usually just ignore them.

If I happen to notice the anvil buff is gone I'll renew it either from an anvil if I'm in town or from the stack of consumable boosters from login rewards, but I never know how long it's been gone when I do that and it doesn't bother me, I don't notice any difference when I've been playing without it so it's obviously not having a big impact on my characters.

The jade bot boosters can be useful, but they're more hassle to get and don't last as long so I'll only pick them up if I know I'm going to be on a Cantha map for a while and I'm expecting a lot of combat (usually when I'm planning to do a meta event). Even then I'll pick them up as and when I see them rather than going out of my way to chase down batteries and the booster stations.

I didn't vote because neither of the options fits me. I don't hate them or think they're useless (and it sounds like you don't either since you called them mandatory and overpowered), but I also don't need them. It's nice to have the option if I want it, but I don't feel under pressure to get them all the time or feel like I'm at a significant disadvantage when I play without them.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Danikat.8537

[Cuks.8241]

I mostly ignore them. But I would just delete them all. Period, no compensation. Repair canisters, give them vendor price. To much power creep and they litter the world. The middle ground for protocols would be that they only worked on eod maps. 

Oh and they clutter the already way to busy buff bar. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Cuks.8241

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I mostly ignore them. But I would just delete them all. Period, no compensation. Repair canisters, give them vendor price. To much power creep and they litter the world. The middle ground for protocols would be that they only worked on eod maps. 

Oh and they clutter the already way to busy buff bar. 

jfc, this, this so hard

The buff bar especially. 

[Dibit.6259]

Yeah the repaire canisters become useless junk that collects dust on one of my parked characters from the change, would be great if we could exchange them for something, maybe 10 for a small booster.

[Bookah pls.9352]

I wish they reworked protocols into where they were a single buff that you just recharged automatically via batteries.

Totally removing the offensive and defensive protocol nodes and all the busy work involved entirely, you simply use a battery and charge your protocol up for say 30 minutes per battery.

Even throw in a consumable kinda like the waystation which acts as a battery you can take anywhere so you don't need to keep going to cantha to charge them. Keep all the restrictions it has now like not working in instances and stuff but just let us consume a charge to power up on the go in non cantha areas.

It wouldn't be doing anything you can't already do, just removing tedious steps and wasted time.

[Khisanth.2948]

Haven't really bothered with these most of the time. Protocols are only when they are nearby and I am waiting for the event to start. I literally have nothing better to do than to get them. They are a huge eyesore in EoD maps though so that is a points toward their removal.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Khisanth.2948

[Fueki.4753]

I don't think I've ever used either of these things, so removing them would change nothing about how I play the game.

But I hope they won't design future content with these kind of things in mind.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I run the jade-tech offensive/defensive boons only for a few special builds which are for open-world only. It is quite annoying to use them at the moment, because they are cleansed upon entering a guildhall. The recharging stuff is acceptable, given the huge advantage they offer.

The duration for the repair-anvil is very long. If you want to extend it more conveniently, you can use Instant Armor-Reinforcing Canisters or the Endless Reinforcing Contract.

What I would like to see is the offensive/defensive stuff not being cleansed in guildhalls and story-instances and maybe extending the maximum duration for 2 hours to 4 hours.

[mungozen.2379]

The Anvils are really whatever, they don't impact the game in a significant way.

But the Jade Tech Protocols are really powerful and I would advocate for not only using these always in Open World but modifying your build to take advantage of these buffs.

Stacks of all Offensive and Defensive boons for 30 seconds.  If you clear combat with one mob and start with another, the buffs stack duration.  You can walk around many Open World places and have near permanent full stacks of all buffs.

Consider that a second, you can run a build with no Alacrity or Quickness, no Might or no Fury, and still have access to all these boons via Jade Protocols.  Now consider building your character for Open World to take advantage of these buffs rather than trying to self buff.  The same goes for all the defensive benefits as well.

 

Yes the Jade Protocols are overpowered.  They are there to allow Open World players the same buffs found in organized group content without having to form dedicated groups.  That by it's nature makes the buffs overpowered.  You do not need these buffs, but for the 2 minutes it takes to get them, it can speed up your Open World gameplay massively and empower some pretty busted builds.

As a quick test, I just did some DPS tests with and without the Jade Protocol Buffs.  My Open World Virtuoso goes from 11k to 25k DPS with the buffs.  Similar jumps in DPS can be seen with other professions.  Not getting these boons is just handcuffing your own gameplay in Open World.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

if anything the anvil buff needs to be recharged more often, like every few hours or so. currently its a use and forget feature of the game just like guild buffs became which reduces immersion.

[Veprovina.4876]

They're fun buffs but I wouldn't really call them mandatory lol. The protocols don't work in any instance, including story so idk what the problem is. They're just some open world toys.

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

But the Jade Tech Protocols are really powerful and I would advocate for not only using these always in Open World but modifying your build to take advantage of these buffs.

Thats actually another aspect I dislike about them. They completely invalidate some traits. Why bother with a trait that give self boons if these provide everything. 

Yeah its ow, it doesnt really matter. But ow is great sandbox for playing with some fun builds and often a trait that you wouldnt take in group because you have pocket FB becomes better in solo ow. Yeah you can not stack up on these but gimping yourself on purpose kinda defeats the purpose of min maxing a build for a specific situation. 

[Ashen.2907]

Mandatory is a bit of an overstatement. I don't bother with either and do pretty well. 

[Batalix.2873]

Wow I didn't realize the jade protocols applied like nine boons. I was so proud of putting together a Cataboontank that could keep full five-man uptime of protection(aegis)/resolution, fury, quickness, regen, vigor, swiftness, and might. But this does all that plus alacrity, and passively, and not requiring people stand in the circle.

 

Why do boon builds even exist in this game anymore?

 

At the very least these protocols should cost a full four charges. Make players actually work for that nonsense.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Vavume.8065]

6 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Consider that a second, you can run a build with no Alacrity or Quickness, no Might or no Fury, and still have access to all these boons via Jade Protocols. 

That is what I would consider a brain dead build that completely destroys any meaningful theorycrafting because the protocols carry no matter how bad your build is.

I would like to see the protocol buffs removed entirely.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Vavume.8065

[Nidome.1365]

Better idea - remove this poll from the game. The options given are dumb and leading.

You don't like the buffs then don't use them.

You can't be bothered to to refresh them? That's entirely your choice.

Personally, If I remember I use them, if I forget then I don't. That is entirely down to me, but I don't go around demanding that they be removed just because I forgot or couldn't be bothered to use them.

If people want to use them then let them.

[Night Avo.4812]

First of all, it works only in open world. I don't know what the problem to stack it, overall, you need tp to arborstone (the one that you gain scroll through story), use zip line that is near your spawn point (+4 charges) and get out to echowilds via exit near waypoint, and you can find there two batteries (+2x2) and zip line (+4) near defense and offense station. If you want to max them then relog or do one more iteration of the previous process. Not a big deal to do it once in two hours. Secondly, it helps a lot to dps builds that can be found on snowcrows etc, since their self boon uptime is awfull, but potential is great. Not everyone can get a lot of equipment and build templates to be ready for every situation, even 2 equipment templates and 3 for traits are not enough usually, at least for me. On some characters I have unlocked more templates, but for every character after 10th it's not rational. And of course, not everyone one has enough resources for gear to put in this templates, especially people that play only open world usually get only exotic gear where they can choose stats and there is no place for such experiments with stats, while lots of them can only dream about legendary equipment. Usually, these buffs not only help me to save time and overcome  struggles with self boon sustainability on some builds, but also they help me overcome upscaling, because when I'm not the only one who tries to kill a champion I need to work x1.7 harder because another one don't understand how to get boons for themselves, dodges, jump, cc when breakbar is accessible etc. But, sometimes, when there is a lot of people, even regular mob get hp pool of champion and people don't usually "clean" trash and run from it, when it's obviously would take less time to kill it together. 

In case of anvil it's not such a big deal. Only in WvW it matters a lot possibly. In pvp it doesn't work, in fractals with masteries you get it via mistlock instability automatically, in raids you see it every time when you use waypoints (don't remember how they are called in raid), in open it's really not so useful. At the end it's only a small tasty bonus. 

And 2 questions:

1) Why don't you ask to remove consumables and their buffs? Since they are really kind of mandatory in raids, fractals, WvW.

2) Why don't you name two categories like "I like these buff" and "I don't like these buffs". It's kinda abusive and manipulative since people will struggle to choose "No i need them to feel buffed and stronger" because it feels like shaming.

 

P. S. In my opinion the best they can do is rework endless repair contract (and consumable one) so it would give anvil buff, 4 charges, add 1 hour of defense and offense buffs(jade bot ones only in open world of course) with 15 mins cooldown. And even maybe to add some kind of enhancement that will service similar and parallel to food buff from birthday cake. It will return and increase QoL value of these things. And I don't have either birthday cake nor endless repair contract, but it would be fair deal for people that bought contract before it lost QoL value.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Night Avo.4812

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I was pondering about these complaints a little and realized that there is actually one massive group that would benefit if these mechanics were infinite without the need of recharging: unattended farmers. Most of the NPCs die almost instantly on respawn. So this change would mostly impact those farmers who 'work' in places with more dangerous enemies. I also think they may want to visit some places which are currently too hostile for this method. And of course Gyala Delves. Their characters can mine their own business if they do not need to recharge the filters. My guess is, with the most recent changes, unattended farming in Gyala is profitable now.
-

In addition I thought of a method to make the boons less troublesome to acquire. The Jade Tech Offensive/Defensive boons and the repair anvil in particular.

Anvil/Reinforcement buff
They can enable a mechanic that auto-extends the duration if the timer runs out and the character in questions has an Instant Armor-Reinforcing Canister or Endless Reinforcing Canister in their inventory. Does not matter if it is regular inventory-slot or shared inventory slot. Auto consume until nothing is left. That way nothing of the existing system would need to be changed. The gemstore-items could continue to exist. I even see a slight increase in repair-canister purchases with this feature.

People without those canisters can restore the anvil buff manually as we do it right now.

Jade Tech Offensive/Defensive buff
I would use a similar mechanic as a buff and auto-refill the duration by 15 minutes when the character has Jade Bot Charges at their disposal. There is a very interesting boon from the Xunlai Jade renown heart in New Kaineng. The Heart of Jade buff is currently pretty useless. It only lasts for one hour and auto-refills your Jade Bot Charges every 4-6 minutes by one.

If we would use it for the Offensive/Defensive buffs, some things would need to be changed:
- Heart of Jade should be sold by Xunlai Jade vendors for Jade Silvers or Imperial Favor or Research Notes, unlimited supply
- Heart of Jade should become a consumable item, duration stackable up to 24 hours, 48 hours or a full week (ANet can pick), account bound

Those adjustments would not be very complicated. It would not harm those who use the buffs the normal way and require those who want more comfort to do some minor investments. 

[MichaelBaker.6541]

Thanks for asking, but sorry, no. This doesn't make sense to me. That's equal to complaining that bonfires, and food, sharpening stones, and utility primers, are being shoved down your throat, and it's just ruining the game for you, it should all be deleted! Those are exponentially smaller gains, and I've never seen the open world not embrace and enjoy it.  It's also illogical to be happy to work and grind for ascended gear, but it's a thorn in your side that if you'd like, you can also charge yourself instantly with a battery for a MUCH bigger boost than that, on top of your ascended gear!  For free!  For way longer than food if you like! For nothing, just the time it takes to do it. Not "thank you Anet?"  Cuz you certainly don't have to, but if you do understand the value of this, how it opens up whole other layers of how you can experience the game to your liking, then you need to be able confirm those buffs are on with a flash of the eye, and hover if you want to check how long they will be up.  No, I can't appreciate the logic of not wanting to see a buff bar bursting with buffs, I love it.

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:23 PM, Nidome.1365 said:

Better idea - remove this poll from the game. The options given are dumb and leading.

You don't like the buffs then don't use them.

You can't be bothered to to refresh them? That's entirely your choice.

Personally, If I remember I use them, if I forget then I don't. That is entirely down to me, but I don't go around demanding that they be removed just because I forgot or couldn't be bothered to use them.

If people want to use them then let them.

agreed

leave it as it is, dont touch it.

that's why Anet shouln't hear the "pro gamers", "raiders", "hardcores" when design stuff.

the can't tolerate optional stuff, they can just think about:

- "is mandatory because is op, anyone not using it is dumb and should be kicked" or

- "remove it, its power creep ruining the game" or

- "make it permanently"

 

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

If anything, I do feel they should auto buff you once you're inside a capital or any hub, just like how we don't have to do the potion drinking with Infinite potion and reinforce armor in Fractal, as it does both for you the moment you step in.