June 27 Balance Update Preview

[Myror.7521]

@TiedHam.4923 but then on the other hand Daring Dragon is overall the least Played traitline of all 3. Like all it might saw Play where in lower PvP Divisions and also 1v1 Situations. Cause why would us even use a traitline that just let u cast a Skill faster for just loosing DMG when you could use a line that stacks ya might but also made the Skill unblock and unblindable. Daring Dragon was in this sence the best Option for all 3 Lines (since the other up one was the perfect one for solo openworld stuff). Tho still they could have simply reworked no of those 3 Lines and Take it to something else instead just like Lush Forest.

[misterman.1530]

14 hours ago, Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

Signets of Suffering: This trait has been reworked and causes signet skills to remove boons from affected foes.

This is seriously punishing to a lot of builds. Reaper has taken hit after hit to its shroud duration and this is yet one more that reduces the viability of reaper shroud focused builds by taking away the signets passive affects while in shroud. But then this also impacts every other aspect of necromancer because it guts the signet lifeforce generation that is core to how the necromancer works.

This one needs to be left out entirely. 

Boon Strip vs. Boon Corruption

• Unholy Feast: This skill now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.
• Spiteful Spirit: This trait now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.
• Enfeebling Blood: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.
• Lesser Enfeeble: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.

This is straight up nerf to necromancer across the board. Boon corruption is a key part of what makes a necromancer. This nerf gives a hard hit to condition based necro builds.

Finally, worst for last:
 

• Desert Empowerment: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster tier, replacing Feed from Corruption. The barrier from this trait will now only apply around the shade and will affect 5 targets. This trait now also grants alacrity to allies when you grant them barrier.

By placing this in the grandmaster tier so that we must choose between barrier generation and the larger shade, this effectively destroys the role of the support scourge in a way that is not and cannot be made up by adding alacrity. Scourge doesnt NEED alacrity. If support scourge is seeing a drop in use because it doesn't stack well against other support options, then it should be buffed up, not gutted and reworked into a pale echo of other support classes. 

Roll this one back, leave it out, and come back later with changes that dont run necromancer through the blender.

Yeah. I honestly don't think Anet Devs have any idea how to play, let alone design, the Necro class. I mean, it's always been about Boon corruption - now it's going to have some sort of half-a**ed boon stripping giving it measurably less damage-over-time since they won't be applying new conditions, instead they will just remove boons.

This is the kind of "balance" patch that, if it drops in its current previewed state, causes me to take yet another several month extended break from the game. That would be the 2nd time in the past year. The frequency of these breaks probably means a permanent one is imminent. Ah well.

[WizardXeze.2860]

Why is Heal Scourge king of the revives? Transfusion is op and Scourge brakes it:

1. Pull 5 downed players on each pulse!
2. Pulses 9 times, once a second? They nerfing this to on initial cast, makes sense.
3. Heals and Revives 2% They are nerfing this to 1% on Scourge, because it is always available?
4. Can be used to pull downed players out of damaging encounter mechanics.
5. Can be used to group up the downed people so you actually can revive everyone at the same time.
6. Transfusion activates with Shroud 4 and Scourge has access to Shroud 4 via F4 at any time
7. Shroud 4 cooldown on Scourge is 10s.

That means Heal Scourge is pulling 5 people every second trough the fight. The 98% reviving potential means nothing when downstate players are spread out or in damaging encounter mechanics, which Transfusion fixes but also brakes. 

In terms of just Reviving:

1. Ranger can take Search and Rescue which pulls on initial cast one target and start reviving them 15% a second(?) Also Druid's Glyph of the Stars is super strong revive when entering CA 72% with 38s cooldown. 
2. Scrapper has Function Gyro which on initial cast starts reviving up to 3 people 30% a second(?) You can also take Elixir R which's tool belt skills which revives whopping 170% (17% / second) 5 targets but has 72s cooldown.
3. Tempest can also double Geyser. Well of Blood 20s and 30s cooldowns each revive 35% versus Geyser 16s and 20s cooldowns each revive 28%. Tempest also has Gylph of Renewal which is more flexible with bit longer cooldown than Signet of Undeath that requires your health to be used. Rebound! and better healing prevents downstate in the first place. Honestly Tempest is better than Scourge without Transfusion.
4. Scourge can has permanent pull grouping people constantly under themselves and preventing bleeding out and as long the Scourge is standing in safe spot he can drop Well of Blood to revive everyone by 35% or double well for 70% and the Transfusion is reviving 2% each second so just by pressing F4 off cooldown you will eventually revive everyone. Signet of Undeath is useful only when you don't run Blood Magic because how strong Transfusion is. 

Honestly, I would like to make request for Arena Net to nerf only Transfusion on Blood Magic and see if that is op. Leave the 7% on Well of Blood. LET us try "Transfusion pulls on initial cast" on Heal Alac Scourge. It will be better Search and Rescue but no longer pulling everyone all the time. Let us keep the healing and reviving in  Banshee's Wail and Life from Death. If Scourge becomes Dominant they can then add other nerfs to the Blood Magic or other based on how strong it became. 

[Myror.7521]

@Cal Cohen.2358 Heya wana say please buff the new Arc Divider to at least 3.0 Power scaling (PvE only). As it stands now 2.5 will be even lower than Arcing slice. (But also will lower the total dps of power Berserker in instanced PvE) Besides this i am Personaly fine with it now doing 1 big Strike instead of 3 ^^

Edited June 16, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Waffles.5632]

I feel this entire patch is the result of looking at numbers and spreadsheets only. I want to be respectful because I appreciate the devs working on the game, and giving their time and effort day in and day out, however I am very frustrated for a multitude of reasons.

The major reasons however are;

- Class identity is being killed across the board

- Blatant class favoritism (Everyone knows it's ele. This is not a secret)

- The devs seemingly unable or refusing to actually play the classes to see what actually makes them FEEL FUN TO PLAY.

 

 

 

MIRAGE:

Firstly, Mirage has been in the gutter with one dodge for ~4 years by now.

Mesmers have been told to wait, to wait more, to wait even longer, and now we're being told to wait again for a "potential rework" that's honestly never coming at this point. Yes Mirage is getting it's dodge back but at the cost of everything else. The meta has changed drastically since PoF and quite simply, no version of Mirage now is even close to what Mirage was back then. I have over 2000 PvP matches on One Dodge Power Mirage and I have never ever seen another power mirage. EVER. I am the only one left playing. (for power mirage) and even I quit pvp because how badly Mirage has been treated.

As for condi Mirage in PvP I have seen maybe 20 over the course of my pvp career and I am not making this up. I am sure there are Mirages that play pvp but we are so few and far between. Between the one dodge and the other nerfs (Staff used to apply BURNING for instance, but that was taken away with no compensation)

PvP aside though, I present this video as evidence of how cool Mirage can be in PVE:

This is the class identity and fantasy I am talking about. GW2 is so unique for an MMO because it has a lot of mechanics and classes that perfectly fit their intended vibe/fantasy, but this patch is ruining that, straight up. There is simply no need anymore for alac Mirage, especially after this patch. I will expand on that further, but for now more Mirage history;

Mirage had one dodge for like ~2 or 3 years BEFORE EoD launch. Upon EoD launch Vindicator shipped with ONE DODGE. This gave hope that Anet would look at Mirage one dodge, even CMC promised they would "look into it" and then literally he became silent on it. One stream he talks about it, and then the next few balance streams he doesn't even mention Mirage at all.

THEN Vindicator gets two dodges, THE REASONING: "This game is fundamentally based around having two dodges"

That was about a year ago. So after 3yrs, +1yr of silence, we end up with Vindi gettting 2 dodges BEFORE MIRAGE.

MEANWHILE: Ele got a scepter rework, several skill reworks, a slew of buffs, AND FOR THIS PATCH THEY ARE GETTING ANOTHER SKILL REWORK; CHURNING EARTH + MORE BUFFS.

I simply ask you this CMC: WHERE IS THE MIRAGE LOVE?????

For PvE Mirage this patch is just a STRAIGHT UP NERF FOR NO REASON, and man it makes me so angry. 

 

 

 

NECRO:

Necro in gw2 has one of the most unique support roles I have ever seen, and it PERFECTLY matches the fantasy of Necro; MASTER OF THE DEAD.
Scourge is the absolute HERO of successful boneskinner strikes. When that boss flings his poo bombs and half the raid drops, it's the scourge who teleports everyone that's downed and then rezzes them. I CANNOT EXPRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPACTFUL THAT IS.

I have literally formed new friendships with necro players because of situations like that. They become HEROES, and I can only imagine how awesome they must feel when they are able to save the day like that.

Knowing that when you have a support necro in your party you're "safe" when downed, it's so satisfying, AND I DON'T EVEN PLAY NECRO. It is absolutely insane to me that Anet is even considering removing such a unique and fun playstyle, all for the sake of spreadsheet alac.

Again this patch strikes me as the devs not playing the classes they're trying to change. Trust me when I say the cries of Necro's should be heard so loud. This is just a bad change from all angles. Removing this playstyle from Necro is just wrong.

THERE ARE FEW THINGS AS SATISFYING AS SECURING A REZ ON A DOWNED PLAYER. Both players ALWAYS end up feeling good about that interaction, so I suggest anet double down and PROMOTE MORE INTERACTIONS LIKE THAT, NOT DESTROY THEM.

 

 

 

BERSERKER:

Who approved the Arc Divider change? Seriously I want to know. That is the SINGLE MOST DEFINING ATTACK OF BERSERKER. It is literally the SOUL of the class alongside Gunflame and Decapitate. EVERYONE ASSOCIATES BERSERKER WITH BIG BOY SPIN and yet again, Anet is KILLING class identity in favor of spread sheets because every class must provided X & Y buffs and in this specific case, Arc Divider is being KILLED IN PVE for PvP, which, PVP HAS SEEN THE LOWEST POPULATION IN IT'S ENTIRE HISTORY OF GW2 (why? Because Cata and Tempest are so oppressive to fight against. Why? Because CMC just keeps buffing ele)

When you have a Lamborghini you don't mess with it because it's perfect as is. Arc Divider is that Lamborghini. Instead of doing spreadsheet math, double down on the fantasy of the class. If Arc Divider isn't up to par, ADD MORE SPINS. Warriors are simple people, more spins = more happy. I should know because before I played Mirage, I played berserker for the LONGEST TIME, why? BECAUSE OF ARC DIVIDER STRAIGHT UP.

I just cannot understand any of these changes at all, and it makes me so angry that ele is receiving the special treatment YET AGAIN. Like we get it CMC, we know you love ele and are passionate. I LOVE THAT. I want passionate devs, but I also want EQUAL REPRESENTATION FOR ALL CLASSES. Give the ele treatment to EVERY CLASS PLEASE.

 

I would comment more but again, I think these examples cover my main points:

- Class identity and fantasy are PARAMOUNT.

- IDC what the numbers say, if the class isn't fun to play, no one will play it.

- The essence of GW2 is teamwork, and this patch is effectively killing that in all classes across the board. There are VERY FEW positive changes in this patch, and I just can't help but feel those positive changes are only for the classes the devs like. If your class isn't favored, it's forgotten.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Samhmcq.7248]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

Elementalist

Catalyst

• Spectacular Sphere: This trait now grants quickness when deploying your jade sphere in any attunement, in addition to the boons currently granted. Quickness duration reduced from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.

 

I think this is a good change but Catalyst, Willbender and Mirage all need some access to an on-demand burst of quickness or alacrity outside of combat. It doesn't need to be much, just a few seconds but something to initiate a fight with and use in-between phases could go a long way to improve the usability of these specs. Here are some suggestions for each of them.

On Catalyst this could be replacing the fury from energized elements with 2 seconds of quickness and making it aoe or give catalyst a way to grant quickness when applying an aura to allies with a long cooldown or maybe give hammer some aoe quickness on one of it's air skills.

On Willbender you can change Phoenix Protocol to pulse some alacrity out when you cast Flowing Resolve. Again it doesn't need to be much, maybe 2 or 3 seconds but just enough to make the build feel more consistent.

On Mirage you could make one the traits let Chaos Storm on staff give a few seconds of alacrity.

I think these specs providing their boons in unique ways tied to being in combat is fun but you can give them more consistency without removing their gameplay identities.

 

On 6/8/2023 at 10:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

Guardian

 

Core

• "Stand Your Ground!": Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds in PvE and WvW and from 60 seconds to 48 seconds in PvP.

Firebrand

• Weighty Terms: This trait no longer reduces the mantra charge-recovery times. Increased pages granted from 1 to 2

 

Firebrand is my most played spec but Stand Your Ground doesn't need its cooldown reduced, I think the change to Hallowed Ground will be enough. Firebrand is already oppressively good as a fractal healer and this skill is a big contributer to that but even outside of playing a healer this skill feels fine at 30 seconds.

In terms of mantras it completely makes sense to have the recharge time in PvP and WvW but please please please just remove it from PvE. If I only needed to recharge Mantra of Potence every so often it'd be fine but there are times when playing heal or dps quickbrand where you might run up to four mantras at once and even though you don't need to use the last charge, because of how much damage and quickness uptime flame and potence mantra give respectively you'll always want to use the last charge with them at least, and there will be some situations where you find yourself needing to use the last charge on Solace and Liberation too. Having potentially four mantras needing to be recharged while in combat just feels awful. I know you want skills to be consistent between gamemodes but let this be an exception or if not at least reduce the recharge time in PvE to only a second or so.

 

Also, aside from balance feedback I wanted to say thank you to the balance team, I think for the most part you guys are doing a great job. Some of the comments in response to balance posts like these are completely vile and I hope you know that there is a silent majority that are supportive to your work and continued efforts.

To those that continue to insult and belittle the devs because you don't agree with the direction of the balance, it's not worth it. It's not an easy job and there will always be disagreements about how changes are implemented but you can be civil in your negative feedback and aside from the reason of just being a decent human being your feedback is less likely to be ignored that way too.

[Gibson.4036]

17 hours ago, NeedForSleep.7390 said:

I agree with everything youre saying. Its just

I JUST WANT ARC DIVIDER NOT TO GO DOWN TO 1 SPIN. NONE OF THESE CHANGES MAKE ANY FLAMING SENSE AND I WAS TRYING TO BARGAIN. I SWEAR TO BALTHAZAR THIS IS BECAUSE SOMEONE AT ARENANET HAS NEVER FORGIVEN US FOR 4 WARR 1 MES COF P1 5K AP OR KICK

Hey, bargaining is the third stage of grief. You’re coming along nicely.

[Volcanis.4872]

Give Reaper alacrity instead of Scourge.

With the controversy of the Scourge changes, what if we give Reaper group alacrity and keep Scourge as is? I understand Reaper is the DPS spec, but the same could be said for Berserker and Bladesworn and they both got group quickness and alacrity. Here's my suggestion:

Blighter's Boon (grandmaster trait) is now "Terrifying Speed" - Gain life force when you apply a boon to allies or remove a boon from an enemy. Skills that inflict fear will now also grant allies boons (alacrity in PvE)

• warhorn 4, staff 5, reaper's shroud 3, lich form 3, spectral ring, and downed skill 2 all grant fear
• Augury of Death could be reworked to grant an additional effect for all shouts. For example:
  • "Your Soul is Mine!" siphons health
  • "Nothing Can Save You!" inflicts fear
  • "Rise!" grants allies fury
  • "Suffer!" inflicts weakness
  • "You Are All Weaklings!" grants allies more might
  • "Chilled to the Bone!" inflicts slow

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Mirage had one dodge for like ~2 or 3 years BEFORE EoD launch. Upon EoD launch Vindicator shipped with ONE DODGE. This gave hope that Anet would look at Mirage one dodge, even CMC promised they would "look into it" and then literally he became silent on it. One stream he talks about it, and then the next few balance streams he doesn't even mention Mirage at all.

THEN Vindicator gets two dodges, THE REASONING: "This game is fundamentally based around having two dodges"

That was about a year ago. So after 3yrs, +1yr of silence, we end up with Vindi gettting 2 dodges BEFORE MIRAGE.

MEANWHILE: Ele got a scepter rework, several skill reworks, a slew of buffs, AND FOR THIS PATCH THEY ARE GETTING ANOTHER SKILL REWORK; CHURNING EARTH + MORE BUFFS.

I simply ask you this CMC: WHERE IS THE MIRAGE LOVE?????

For PvE Mirage this patch is just a STRAIGHT UP NERF FOR NO REASON, and man it makes me so angry. 

You do realize that it's the same dev that put in all of this right? That should pretty much answer your "where is the mirage love?" question. 🤷‍♂️

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

8 hours ago, Iceflame.5024 said:

I mostly play PVP necro specs and removing boon corruptions from weapon skills and two GRANDMASTER traits is a really huge blow to most necromancers in PVP. They can say they do not want to have range boon strips in WvW but Lesser Enfeeble is a small AOE around the necro so it`s basically a melee corrupt and both Unholy Feast and Spiteful Spirit are 600 range radius around the necro. Also without the boon corrupt what is even going to be the point of ever taking the spite GM trait Spiteful Spirit?

the thing is they say nothing at all. there's no justification for killing corrupts and the scourge specs overall, also in Wvw not. zero sense on this. they kinda force meleeballing and W key meta again in Wvw

probably mainly bc the whole balance was done, once again, with focus on pvE ... and messes once again with spvp and Wvw heavily bc not one thought about it was given

[Zex Anthon.8673]

3 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

the thing is they say nothing at all. there's no justification for killing corrupts and the scourge specs overall, also in Wvw not. zero sense on this. they kinda force meleeballing and W key meta again in Wvw

probably mainly bc the whole balance was done, once again, with focus on pvE ... and messes once again with spvp and Wvw heavily bc not one thought about it was given

Just more necro nerfs under the guise of buffs and weak justifications. These changes are actually about nerfing the counter to the devs favorite class.

🤡M🤡

[Chazara.9075]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:16 AM, GeraldBC.4927 said:

But before anything else, I think the easiest remedy to this problem is for the devs responsible for the changes in question to actually play the specs they are nerfing. For scourge specifically, I'd recommend trying the 'it's totally viable bro' challenge on the scourge.

-You have to play exclusively scourge for one month

-You can choose and alternate between scourge builds, but you can't switch elite specs or characters.

-You have to play the post-patch nerfed version on the live servers.

-You have to complete fractal CMs every day and every raid wing once a week. If you fail to complete one of them, you need to try again until you succeed.

-You can't bring any friends or fellow developers, you need to operate entirely on pugs

-You have to complete a total of 10 additional meta events in the overworld. You can't complete the same one more than once. 

If you find this unbearable to complete, simply buff the spec until it is no longer unbearable. And then buff it some more for good measure.

I actually really like this idea, it forces the devs to actually understand the weight of their changes. And they probably should do this well in advance before things ever hit live servers. But it is rather clear they don't do as much internal testing as they claim and on top of that they definitely don't play the specs they tend to nerf more or do very drastic changes.

It would be fair to say the devs are average players and could maybe clear every piece of content outside of the hardest stuff released to date, but it seems more and more obvious the devs are putting less and less time into playing the game and trying to understand player's frustrations with how the game works.

Gerald you said it earlier they should change their mindset, but for as long as I can remember there hasn't been a positive mindset swap to 'I don't like this thing, let me like this thing' since maybe Late Season 3/Early PoF?

[Godhand.4609]

Without a doubt the most out of touch patch notes I have ever read for any game. So bad in fact that for the first time in my life I'm writing a post on a video game forum. So good job on that at least I guess.

I firmly believe not implementing any of this patch will be better for the game than going through with it but I want to say a few things specifically: 

First one is Necro and Warrior changes for Alacrity/Quickness. My Question is who asked for this? Nobody. There was a few raiders maybe who said they will not bring heal Scourge because it doesn't provide Alac or Quickness and that is fine. The build had its uses and players who enjoyed it, it had a niche and there was no need to change it. Same with Alac/Quick on Warrior, just why? Not a single soul wanted this. And why does it have to be the grandmaster trait on Bladesworn that has its uses in PvP and not the one nobody picks ever? 

Honestly at this point I firmly believe it will be the best for the health of the game to just remove Alacrity and Quickness entirely. Those boons are so incredibly busted and it is not healthy for the game. You will just rework and ruin more and more professions to make them give those boons and be "viable" (in PvE only btw no one seems to care what those reworks do in the cornerstone gamemode where Quickness/Alac are mostly irrelevant).

Next up the actual class changes. Removing the CD reduction traits is fine by me if it has to be done but why randomly nerf some skills for WvW/PvP by not applying the reduction??? Elixir S 60 seconds? Bandage not reduced either? No CD reduction for Magnet or Gear shield? Those skills are OP for sure I saw one person running tool kit last week great nerf! Random Scrapper Superspeed, Medblaster and Super Elixir nerf aswell for the 3 people that still play heal Scrapper instead of doing the desired thing and switching to the holy class of Elementalist. The same can be applied to a lot of the changes to other classes but this post is going to be far too long already and Engi is the one I know about the most so I will leave it at that. TL:DR too many random nerfs in WvW specifically for builds and skills that are already balanced. At least we buffed Catalyst again, very nice that class is really weak I think. I saw roamers are playing different things again now instead of 90% cele Cata and we can't have that.

And then the strips... are you out of your mind? Do you even play WvW? "Too many strips at range" said nobody ever...

And nerfing Spellbreaker again is just hilarious 😂 you want strips to be a melee thing but gut the class that is specifically designed to strip in a melee fight time and time again. Break Enchantments nerfed for what reason exactly? Is someone losing 2 of their 15 boons too much value for a utility skill slot?

And then the bubble... people say Anet devs only play WvW in blobs and that's why they hate strips so much but I'm not so sure about that. Can't be any decent blobs at least maybe thats why they think strips are too strong. Because you wanna know what happens when enemy Spellbreaker lands a perfect bubble on our entire zerg? The commander says "Just stay in the Bubble" so people don't get any silly ideas like dodging out of it and leaving the tag 🤣

That skill is pitiful for an elite of a spec that is suppsed to be the "anti boon" class. If anything it needs buffs not nerfs! Should be 10 target cap and -100% incoming boon duration just like in PvE. Or at least remove 2 boons per pulse so it is actually dangerous instead of being a mild annoyance because it blocks your vision like it is right now.

I doubt anyone with something to say will actually read this but please reconsider all of these changes. You do not need to destroy perfectly fine builds and spec identity to force in Alac/Quickness on all classes because there is 50 hardcore raiders who do not bring those classes currently. You do not need to randomly nerf boon strip in WvW when it is weak already. You do not need to change profession mechanics that are fine and enjoyable for the sake of changing something.

And for the love of god if you remove CD reduction traits apply the reduction to ALL previously affected skills in PvP and WvW aswell. You can always nerf it later if it somehow turns out too strong.

[elfwine.8573]

Fervent force has made the game so fun for me and I absolutely love untamed as it currently is. If you wish to make it so that it's less strong so that people aren't forced into it, either roll it into the elite spec itself and then balance from there, or increase the power of the other two options.

For me the recharge reduction on a knockdown isn't necessarily about the dps, it's about how satisfying it is to use and how incredibly fun it makes the class.

Fervent force turned the game from pretty fun to incredibly fun and satisfying to play. Please consider keeping it (and maybe bringing the recharge back to the original amount) and then balancing through other ways. It being removed would nix a massive part of what makes the game fun for me, and is really the only way untamed is going to be used.

Ever since it was reduced, seeing untamed players in endgame content has become so rare that having one single other untamed in a squad of 50 has been a surprise every time. Trying to balance untamed by getting rid of fervent force gets rid of what makes the class so fun and unique and homogenizes the game. I really hope you keep it around. 

[Pie.2167]

I am really disappointed that alacrity will be removed from Chronomancer wells and instead moved to phantasms.  This essentially removes party alacrity from Chronomancer in WvW/group content.  Alacrity used to be part of the identity of the spec and now it will be one of the worst in the game for providing it.

[Barraind.7324]

3 hours ago, Samhmcq.7248 said:

Stand Your Ground doesn't need its cooldown reduced

Its simply due to them removing Pure of Voice.

 

The big change is

3 hours ago, Samhmcq.7248 said:

Weighty Terms: This trait no longer reduces the mantra charge-recovery times. Increased pages granted from 1 to 2

Which is going to make quickness a nightmare on Firebrand, because you're going to need to hit something like 90% boon duration, which we have already documented is atrocious gameplay thanks to Renegade the last few months. 

[Lucinellia.9247]

On 6/10/2023 at 9:49 AM, Fang.1407 said:

I've been maining Specter since it came out and the allied targeting has been wonderful, actually. I've had little to no problems with it since EoD released and with how Specter currently works I can effectively heal my own subgroup and the other subgroup at the same time using scepter/pistol. It has been much easier for me to heal the entire squad on Specter than any other healer in the game. As to how you provide alacrity at the start of a fight: have you used siphon before...? Just use it really quickly when the fight starts.

Edit: And if you don't have a target, use some wells or other shadowsteps to gain shadow force if you have the traversing dusk trait.

Eh. I mean, I have an entire post about the issues with single target healing in Guild Wars 2. You are welcome to read it, since it is a good comparison with what happens in other MMOs to enable single target healing. I have some other posts and comments, which you are welcome to read up on.

In short, the game design doesn't support single target healing (we have no fights where it is needed). The game also doesn't support ally targeting - we have no mouseover macros, we have no quick targeting for different people, our hotkeys for cycling allied targets include downed people(!) and also mini pets(!!). We also can't move the raid frames, meaning if we did want to do single target ally healing, our mouse needs to travel a lot! The experience is entirely miserable, since Guild Wars 2 isn't designed for it, and picking through targets to heal is in direct contradiction to how the rest of the game plays. It is a slow and deliberate action in a game that doesn't have slow, single target damage patterns or limitations such as mana to encourage conservative healing.

Siphon works for a bit of Shadow Force in theory, but then we need to ensure that small amount of SF is enough to get through sufficient skills for putting out enough alacrity so that it stays up until we can enter shroud and cast spells again. This doesn't apply to Strikes or Raids, where we are given SF on entry, but it is an issue for Fractals. 

[DeceiverX.8361]

2 hours ago, Godhand.4609 said:

Without a doubt the most out of touch patch notes I have ever read for any game. So bad in fact that for the first time in my life I'm writing a post on a video game forum. So good job on that at least I guess.

I firmly believe not implementing any of this patch will be better for the game than going through with it but I want to say a few things specifically: 

First one is Necro and Warrior changes for Alacrity/Quickness. My Question is who asked for this? Nobody. There was a few raiders maybe who said they will not bring heal Scourge because it doesn't provide Alac or Quickness and that is fine. The build had its uses and players who enjoyed it, it had a niche and there was no need to change it. Same with Alac/Quick on Warrior, just why? Not a single soul wanted this. And why does it have to be the grandmaster trait on Bladesworn that has its uses in PvP and not the one nobody picks ever? 

Honestly at this point I firmly believe it will be the best for the health of the game to just remove Alacrity and Quickness entirely. Those boons are so incredibly busted and it is not healthy for the game. You will just rework and ruin more and more professions to make them give those boons and be "viable" (in PvE only btw no one seems to care what those reworks do in the cornerstone gamemode where Quickness/Alac are mostly irrelevant).

Next up the actual class changes. Removing the CD reduction traits is fine by me if it has to be done but why randomly nerf some skills for WvW/PvP by not applying the reduction??? Elixir S 60 seconds? Bandage not reduced either? No CD reduction for Magnet or Gear shield? Those skills are OP for sure I saw one person running tool kit last week great nerf! Random Scrapper Superspeed, Medblaster and Super Elixir nerf aswell for the 3 people that still play heal Scrapper instead of doing the desired thing and switching to the holy class of Elementalist. The same can be applied to a lot of the changes to other classes but this post is going to be far too long already and Engi is the one I know about the most so I will leave it at that. TL:DR too many random nerfs in WvW specifically for builds and skills that are already balanced. At least we buffed Catalyst again, very nice that class is really weak I think. I saw roamers are playing different things again now instead of 90% cele Cata and we can't have that.

And then the strips... are you out of your mind? Do you even play WvW? "Too many strips at range" said nobody ever...

And nerfing Spellbreaker again is just hilarious 😂 you want strips to be a melee thing but gut the class that is specifically designed to strip in a melee fight time and time again. Break Enchantments nerfed for what reason exactly? Is someone losing 2 of their 15 boons too much value for a utility skill slot?

And then the bubble... people say Anet devs only play WvW in blobs and that's why they hate strips so much but I'm not so sure about that. Can't be any decent blobs at least maybe thats why they think strips are too strong. Because you wanna know what happens when enemy Spellbreaker lands a perfect bubble on our entire zerg? The commander says "Just stay in the Bubble" so people don't get any silly ideas like dodging out of it and leaving the tag 🤣

That skill is pitiful for an elite of a spec that is suppsed to be the "anti boon" class. If anything it needs buffs not nerfs! Should be 10 target cap and -100% incoming boon duration just like in PvE. Or at least remove 2 boons per pulse so it is actually dangerous instead of being a mild annoyance because it blocks your vision like it is right now.

I doubt anyone with something to say will actually read this but please reconsider all of these changes. You do not need to destroy perfectly fine builds and spec identity to force in Alac/Quickness on all classes because there is 50 hardcore raiders who do not bring those classes currently. You do not need to randomly nerf boon strip in WvW when it is weak already. You do not need to change profession mechanics that are fine and enjoyable for the sake of changing something.

And for the love of god if you remove CD reduction traits apply the reduction to ALL previously affected skills in PvP and WvW aswell. You can always nerf it later if it somehow turns out too strong.

Turns out powercreep is bad for the game.

Turns out the "competitive PvE players" (lol) were of course wrong.

Turns out balancing a game solely for "competitive PvE" (lol) is actually a bad thing for the otherwise silent majority of players.  See:  Wildstar.

This obsession with PvE DPS meter metrics and boon parity baselining is actually so stupid it's almost incomprehensible how ANET keeps digging themselves deeper into the pit.  It's not even like a short-term financials/microtransactions/P2W kind of thing where a studio might be desperate for cash knowing their primary income sources are whales and there's at least even a temporary justification.  Nope, like this is literally the primary reason there's a downswing in players and it's ENTIRELY on the designers.

ANet should just get rid of boons wholesale.  For real.  Drop raid boss HP or something if necessary.  Give all professions defensive auras for active damage reduction effects or something as unique skills.  Let players react to the damage and skills they're taking versus what boon status they and their enemies have.  Clarity goes way up, decision-making goes up, and the boon-centric classes like Guard, Ele, and Necro can actually be balanced for real on their own without getting into weird scaling issues with player quantity.  For the actual competitive modes, there are so many boons coming from invisible sources and so much uptime to keep track of now it's honestly less mentally taxing to just learn what the immutable skill effect icons on every class are and keep track of those rather than trying to decipher what their uptime is based on every trait in the game and how much damage they are or aren't dealing to know how much concentration they have or some kitten.

Edited June 16, 2023 by DeceiverX.8361

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

1 hour ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Let players react to the damage and skills they're taking versus what boon status they and their enemies have.

It is interesting if you go back to the original videos of GW2 that is precisely how it played out.  I still remember the first video I saw of an elementalist back in 2012, it was like a showcase of skills.  Dodge meant ALOT because it was a way to avoid damage.  Now it is replaced with 50 boons that just mitigate damage while you sit there.  The elementalist had this huge meteor shower attack on her staff, and if you wanted to avoid damage, you dodge, or else you got pummeled.  Combo fields etc. were promoted as well to get maximum damage.  You had to be reactive and responsive to your teammates.  Now just stack as much quickness and might as you can and spam away.  

[Waffles.5632]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:49 PM, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

It is interesting if you go back to the original videos of GW2 that is precisely how it played out.  I still remember the first video I saw of an elementalist back in 2012, it was like a showcase of skills.  Dodge meant ALOT because it was a way to avoid damage.  Now it is replaced with 50 boons that just mitigate damage while you sit there.  The elementalist had this huge meteor shower attack on her staff, and if you wanted to avoid damage, you dodge, or else you got pummeled.  Combo fields etc. were promoted as well to get maximum damage.  You had to be reactive and responsive to your teammates.  Now just stack as much quickness and might as you can and spam away.  

This is so true. At launch a major selling point of GW2 were combo fields, and NO CLASS could combo into their own field, it was meant as teamwork bonus for open world and parties for dungeons. An ele lays down fire field, a thief uses unload in it for fire projectiles. AKA THE ESSENCE OF GW2.

Quickness is the most OP boon ever (it used be faster too IIRC) and I say that because, assuming braindead, quickness affects autos, so even if someone just auto's, with quickness they're doing 25%-50% more dps ( I forget exact math don't judge me)

Alacrity is the second most OP boon, simply because you need to actually press buttons to get use out of it.

 

At some point it just became about Quickness and Alac and then Might. Forget everything else, just stack here, and master your snowcrows golem rotation, which I love snowcrows, but my god the way people treat dps golem benchmarks is so cringe. There is not a single fight in gw2 where you're just allowed to stand in one spot and attack, and if there are fights like that, nobody cares because that's the most boring thing ever. GW2 is based around ACTION COMBAT AND MOBILITY. Use your positioning and awareness to see the fight through. Focus on the boss animations, and the actual mechanics of the fight not your dps number. DPS should have never of even been a thing because that is a traditional mmo role and gw2 is just not a traditional MMO.

 

Remember though people at launch there was NO QUICKNESS AND NO ALAC AT ALL. I am not saying these boons are bad, but it has gotten us to an extremely bad place which is here.

[Vidit.7108]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:30 PM, Vidit.7108 said:

On Specter, I played alac Specter regularly until the HP nerf and haven't returned to it. Unless there is a firehouse of alacrity that comes out of shroud skills I can't imagine that this will feel better to play more than dropping wells (which i also dislike). It's going to make upkeep of alacrity, which is the only thing that other players will care about me doing, spottier in some encounters. Shroud feels bad to play and the small changes that have been done to it have not changed my mind about that. I don't like it and I'm worried about it being unplayble.

Which brings me to another problem, I don't think heal specter is going to be so hot either. It has even less HP than alac condi specter and if a lot of its healing potential is on shroud skills that's always going to be a problem with low base hp. You talked about preserving the identity and keeping ally target alive, nobody cares about this in PvE, the experiment has not gone well and I highly doubt these changes are enough to make up for it.

Moving on to Guardian, I don't need to wait until this patch to know what playing with no mantra recharge reduction will feel like.  I already don't like it, it feels like this change is to push players toward spending all their charges in all builds rather than having a choice. Spending all charges on something like healbrand feels horrible, that's not improving the moment-to-moment gameplay of firebrand in any configuration. The "adjustments" that were made to mantras felt like a step backward and still do, if these new changes move forward there is a high chance I'm dropping firebrand altogether. A lot of these notes feel like no one on the balance team actually plays support in PvE and the firebrand changes in particular impact me the most. I've been thinking of moving on from guardian but these other changes to boon builds are leaving me with nowhere obvious to go.

I want to update this a little following discussions with other players and rumors that have gotten back to me.

It was not stated here on that patch notes, but on stream that these balance notes are not the most updated version of the patch. Most people I've seen discussing the notes came away with the wrong impression about a lot of skills and traits as none of them watched the stream and it seems like very very few people did.

With regards to alac specter it was said on the stream that the boons were protection in pvp and alacrity in PvE. What a lot of people got out of reading the note was "boons" 
"Shadestep: This trait has been reworked. It now spreads the beneficial effects of your shadow shroud skills to allies around your tethered target, and it additionally grants boons to yourself and those allies when you use a shadow shroud skill."

I understand that the tooltip probably didn't want to say alacrity for the reason that the boon differs by gamemode. But that has meant that the word "boons" has colored people's perceptions about what the update will do. One shroud skills is might, one is fury, one is regen, one is protection and one is alacrity is a VERY different impression than all shroud skills are alacrity. I wanted to point this out because a lot of feedback you might be getting is accounting for "boons" to mean NOT only alacrity. If you did mean more than just alacrity it wasn't stated and again for those of us who watched the stream we're now misinforming people if the stream is not accurate.

Another issue was pointed out to me about alac upkeep. If alacrity is only applied in a radius around tethered ally then it is a huge problem. That means that unlike wells the specter doesn't control where alacrity is distributed, if tethered ally is off center or doing a mechanic the specter has to change tethered ally or potentially lose upkeep. It's 1 difficult to change ally tether in shroud when siphon is connected to so many other things like damage and boons, 2 because boon is applied outward from an ally it may be difficult to tell that someone is out of radius, and 3 even if the alacrity duration were very high this isn't an improvement in the moment-to-moment gameplay department. On the healer side of things heals or alacrity might be lost if someone is not close enough to the tethered ally, on the alac dps side of things it creates riskier alac generation for non-obvious benefits if any. Changing ally is a personal dps loss, and this assumes that the Specter would notice before running out of shroud or leaving shroud. It's going to contribute to the perception that Alac specter does it's job poorly, which is already a bit of an issue in its current state.                                                                                                                                                                       
Some have been saying devs changed their mind since the stream and that mantra charge cooldown reduction has been applied, if true why isn't it posted in here or somewhere everyone can see it, and if it is true that's great news. It's not the only post-stream statement I've heard and can't be pointed to and if it is true the balance devs are talking about the patch outside of official channels it's another thing preventing feedback from being accurate.                                                                                                                               

Edited June 16, 2023 by Vidit.7108
missing paragraph

[Kynogis.2953]

I really wish there was a number for the Kinetic Accelerators change... but as certain traits - e.g. Orbital Command Strike from Explosives - offer Blast Finishers on low-cooldown I fear the duration isn't much higher than what we have right now...

Sure, the current application of Quickness isn't perfect, but it's simple, straightforward and thematically fitting (y'know, with Gyros being exclusive to Scrapper and all that), and honestly I'd rather "waste" my utility slot for a Whirl Gyro or whatever than having to constantly set up random Combo Fields and use my Function Gyro off-cooldown... or god forbid, use Rocket Boots... 

[troy.3257]

I been mulling over the quickness Deadeye today. You will have to trait  Fire For Effect to give quickness to allies but the radius on it is only 360 and the notes does not say it is being increased. Pretty useless for a rifle Deadeye that has 1500 range. If I got to equip melee weapons then I would rather bring something else. Hell even pistols are 900 range. Whats the use of having DE group quickness if you got to use daggers ? Its you know a........ RANGED class.😕

Edited June 17, 2023 by troy.3257

[Ashen.2907]

22 minutes ago, troy.3257 said:

I been mulling over the quickness Deadeye today. You will have to trait  Fire For Effect to give quickness to allies but the radius on it is only 360 and the notes does not say it is being increased. Pretty useless for a rifle Deadeye that has 1500 range. If I got to equip melee weapons then I would rather bring something else. Hell even pistols are 900 range. Whats the use of having DE group quickness if you got to use daggers ? Its you know a........ RANGED class.😕

But class fantasy is irrelevant. Big Brother tells you to stand in melee and spam your boons so you will stand in melee and spam your boons.

[SoftPup.3048]

2 hours ago, troy.3257 said:

I been mulling over the quickness Deadeye today. You will have to trait  Fire For Effect to give quickness to allies but the radius on it is only 360 and the notes does not say it is being increased. Pretty useless for a rifle Deadeye that has 1500 range. If I got to equip melee weapons then I would rather bring something else. Hell even pistols are 900 range. Whats the use of having DE group quickness if you got to use daggers ? Its you know a........ RANGED class.😕

No boon support is applying boons from 1500 range. Unless you're kiting Qadim you shouldn't be that far away from your group most of the time in the first place.