It's time for new balance devs. Again.

[rotten.9753]

On 7/6/2023 at 9:47 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Your forums posts are not going to matter one bit, I'm sure the only reason Solar was even replaced last year, was based on the leaked discord chat and not even the biased balancing job they were doing, just as the current dev in charge.

Solar wasn't replaced, he quit because he got a better offer from another company, that's what he said on Snowcrows discord. Why would he be replaced anyway? His main task was to give both Quickness and Alacrity to more specs, and he did that.

[Imperial.8471]

37 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

Was it really better when only chronos could do both, that warriors were always sought for their banners, and that only a druid could heal? 6 spots already taken

If the problem is that both Quickness and Alacrity remove class identity, what about other boons? Every class can apply Might, Fury or Regeneration. Is class identity non-existent because of these boons as well?

The problem about quickness and alacrity in particular is that every spec and boss is designed around these two, forcing every group to get them and so forcing every class to be able to give them.

And then there the problem of Anet's way of giving these boons. Every class being able to do any of the main role is a good thing in itself, a core founding of GW2. But taking necro's reviving ability and boon corruption, big parts of the class identity, simply to give generic alacrity instead that every other class already does is a problem

On top of that you have the very poor design of their generation. Scourge, Druid, Scrapper, Tempest, all have to use valuable and circumstancial skills off CD to upkeep the boons. Druid can't be a good healer anymore because it has to waste its celestial avatar for alac. Scourge can't save barrier for incoming hits because it has to spam the skills for alac. Scrapper has to use its F5 revive skill and a dangerous animation-locking rocket charge off CD to upkeep quickness with a risk of falling off the platform or dashing in a lethal aoe.

And finally you have the numbers of this boon generation making upkeep barely possible at 100% BD on the newly changed classes that shows that the balance team, on top of making very poor, unhealthy, unfun design choices, didn't even bother testing the changes to test the boon generation they destroyed several classes for

Anet wants to give all classes alacrity and quickness, fine. I'm all for it. But the current balance team either is far too incompetent to do it, or just doesn't even care of the damage they do to the gameplay as long as they can say all classes have boons and get their paycheck for it

Edited July 8, 2023 by Imperial.8471

[XenesisII.1540]

29 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

Solar wasn't replaced, he quit because he got a better offer from another company, that's what he said on Snowcrows discord. Why would he be replaced anyway? His main task was to give both Quickness and Alacrity to more specs, and he did that.

What a coincidence it happened right around that blowup last year. 🤔

Either way it doesn't matter, they did a terribad job of balancing, and they weren't replaced because of it, so the chances that cmc will be for doing the exact same thing, is slim to none. If people really want to make a statement then do it Aug 22.

[rotten.9753]

5 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said:

The problem about quickness and alacrity in particular is that every spec and boss is designed around these two, forcing every group to get one and so forcing every class to be able to give them.

They are also designed around 25 might, fury, protection, regeneration, vigor, etc. The reason every class should be able to give them is simple and goes back to the very root of core GW2 design - you shouldn't wait for a specific class like in other MMOs, e.g. tank or healer.

5 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said:

And then there the problem of Anet's way of giving these boons. Every class being able to do any of the main role is a good thing in itself, a core founding of GW2. But taking necro's reviving ability and boon corruption, big parts of the class identity, simply to give generic alacrity instead that every other class already does is a problem

By Necro's reviving ability, you probably mean Scourge because other specs were not changed. Scourge was busted and could carry heavily. Boon corruption only matters for PvP/WvW.

6 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said:

On top of that you have the very poor design of their regeneration. Scourge, Druid, Scrapper, Tempest, all have to use valuable and circumstancial skills off CD to upkeep the boons. Druid can't be a good healer anymore because it has to waste its celestial avatar for alac. Scourge can't save barrier for incoming hits because it has to spam the skills for alac. Scrapper has to use a dangerous animation-locking rocket charge off CD to upkeep quickness with a risk of falling off the platform or dashing in a lethal aoe.

Celestiar Avatar had to be used like that since its conception, first you had to upkeep Grace of the Land stacks, then Might stacks. The current problem with druid is that you have to swap pets on cooldown and Alacrity duration could be slightly higher to reduce the interval between two Celestial Avatars. Tempest uses non-healing overloads, the only problem is when you leave water to give Soothing Mist, but I honestly doubt ANet designers want you to be permanently attuned to water otherwise. Scrapper can upkeep quickness with +0% boon duration, so I honestly doubt you have to use finishers off CD. Scourge never saved barrier because it doesn't really have any heals, applying barrier is its form of healing.

[rotten.9753]

4 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

What a coincidence it happened right around that blowup last year. 🤔

Either way it doesn't matter, they did a terribad job of balancing, and they weren't replaced because of it, so the chances that cmc will be for doing the exact same thing, is slim to none. If people really want to make a statement then do it Aug 22.

I don't really see the current Lead Balance doing a better job than Solar, Solar was at least focused on PvE and knew what makes PvE build good. CmC is a PvP focused dev, and you can see that in his elite specs design (Untamed, Catalyst) which were designed for PvP when that game mode is pretty much dead.

[phokus.8934]

They hired Roy who has literally no working experience and is in the gvg scene and the changes they've made only enhances boonballs.  When that is the heart of the problem but yet they nerf boon stripping.  What could possibly go wrong?

[TashaFoxx.7862]

22 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

I don't really see the current Lead Balance doing a better job than Solar, Solar was at least focused on PvE and knew what makes PvE build good. CmC is a PvP focused dev, and you can see that in his elite specs design (Untamed, Catalyst) which were designed for PvP when that game mode is pretty much dead.

THIS

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, rotten.9753 said:

I don't really see the current Lead Balance doing a better job than Solar, Solar was at least focused on PvE and knew what makes PvE build good. CmC is a PvP focused dev, and you can see that in his elite specs design (Untamed, Catalyst) which were designed for PvP when that game mode is pretty much dead.

Never said they did a better job, they're both terribad and operate the same way, both biased to their own class. 🤷‍♂️

[Gendalfs.7521]

8 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

-There is only one remedy to this situation...'a fresh start'; a new Leadership with an anti-bias, anti-favoritisim Philosophy; including building a new team who shares the same Philosophy

 

Simple as that!!

I was working for company and I was in situation like when almost everyone who knows the deal left. Then you have to do with what you have. I think CmC is invaluable asset in knowledge. Give him a leash as he did to Mech 🙂

Edited July 8, 2023 by Gendalfs.7521

[Sugar Min.5834]

The thing is ANet is giving everyone Alacrity and Quickness and then what? They will start thinking oh you guys are too strong now and having fun? Let's kill or cripple them. The team always throw us crumbs and then take back a loaf from you later. Always.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[Burnfall.9573]

1 minute ago, Min Min.9368 said:

The thing is ANet is giving everyone Alacrity and Quickness and then what? They will start thinking oh you guys are too strong now and having fun? Let's kill or cripple them. ANet always throw us crumbs and then take back a loaf from you later. Always.

I've never experienced a game company who is so abusive and controlling as Anet in all my years in gaming. Anet constant need to force their Totalitarian Philosophic Ideas, by taking away. our Independence and right to play the game the way we want. It is Abusive and Toxic for both the well being of the playerbase including to our health.

It is as if a Dictatorship Regime. has completely taken control of Anet and Anet is ok with that.

Such Shame and Disgrace!!

[Eddie.9143]

Peter's Principle.

[AliamRationem.5172]

12 hours ago, rotten.9753 said:

I don't really see the current Lead Balance doing a better job than Solar, Solar was at least focused on PvE and knew what makes PvE build good. CmC is a PvP focused dev, and you can see that in his elite specs design (Untamed, Catalyst) which were designed for PvP when that game mode is pretty much dead.

He sure did, didn't he?  If Solar were still here they'd have simply removed all of the classes and replaced them with mechanist.  The perfect PvE spec!  Why play the game when the game can play for you?

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I've never experienced a game company who is so abusive and controlling as Anet in all my years in gaming. Anet constant need to force their Totalitarian Philosophic Ideas, by taking away. our Independence and right to play the game the way we want. It is Abusive and Toxic for both the well being of the playerbase including to our health.

It is as if a Dictatorship Regime. has completely taken control of Anet and Anet is ok with that.

Such Shame and Disgrace!!

Abusive, toxic, controlling, totalitarian, dictatorship, taking away our independence and our rights...in a video game.  What is it with people using serious terms to describe trivial matters these days?  Do you think it makes your argument more convincing?  From my perspective, it's at best ridiculous and at worst insulting as some of those words have actual meaning which is somewhat diminished when they're used to casually describe something as inconsequential as a stupid video game.  Get a grip.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:58 AM, nutri.1385 said:

That's what I meant. 

Massive open betas aren't that great for gathering feedback, just like the opinions about the new weaponmaster changes, that we could check out last weekend. Everyone has a different playstyle, needs and stuff, probably most checked out only their classes and hardly anyone is really an expert. 

As you said, we'd need someone dedicated and knowledgeable, ideally people who usually stand behind the metas and builds that the others just follow (me included, I just follow them, because I trust them - definitely more than I trust the balance devs 🙃). 

Nah, even expert players chosen by ANet tend to be wrong as well, because ANet doesn't actually know who the experts are that also have fair, rational, and consistent outlooks.  If they did, they'd just be looking at those players' feedback and only their feedback.  It's why we've had issues with them looking at SC feedback and data in the past, and for an even better example:

Red BL got previewed with feedback from the prominent/streamers and reviewers who were focusing more on map design from an exploration perspective than map design in the scope of a competitive play perspective.  And look at how well that went lol.  Almost everyone who played WvW with its launch hated it, and almost everyone who plays WvW still hates it years later lol.

Most players are actually just extremely ignorant about game design and balance.  I think ANet has been dropping the ball here for a long time, but even then, what they've done is still better than like 95% of community suggestions lol.

Hell, I've spent most of my time on these forums discrediting most of these suggestions for the classes I play, because most of what's asked for is downright stupid as far as the design-level decisions are concerned and way, way over the top for implementation, usually asking for making their respective classes blatantly overpowered with very limited counterplay, because most players aren't actually considering how fair it is to fight themselves or the respective balance around their own class or build.

Most people compare the build they play--which usually hovers around good-to-optimal if they copy and paste something they find online--and use that as the litmus test for their entire class, rather than looking at the overarching class and all of its options, strengths, and weaknesses in each respective mode.

No, I'd much rather have someone with a degree in game design or a lot of experience in the field work on the classes than the community at large.  And I promise you, so would you.  Make no mistake, I've probably been one of the most outwardly critical people towards ANet's balance team's decisions since, well, the game launched.  But this does not mean I believe the community at large can do better.

Honestly, the bigger issues with balance coming from ANet seems to be that there isn't a consistent vision for how the game should be played, and most of the data collected on what changes to make and how to get there is ignoring a lot of the underlying context of the already-bad options in the game, and with too much of a focus on making numbers on the top end align for specific PvE encounters versus overarching health of the classes and how players perceive and wish to play them.

This is why not-quite-optimal builds keep getting axed and why so much of PvP and WvW is either totally stagnant or some FotM edge case crops up that's utterly busted and takes absolutely forever to get addressed.  The PvE numbers check out so ANet just ignores it.

Edited July 9, 2023 by DeceiverX.8361

[prototypedragon.1406]

I kinda wonder if anets got another secret discord in the works or they decided to move it to teamspeak 3 or ventrilo for security reasons 🤭

[TashaFoxx.7862]

Who's here after another good-for-nothing patch? lmao

[cyberzombie.7348]

On 7/5/2023 at 5:39 PM, Solstice.5790 said:

"WHO WE ARE

We’re ArenaNet. We make the games we want to play and infuse them with innovation, hand-crafted detail, and creative passion. [...]"

Im definitely gonna remember that for every balance and content patch that rolls out.

[Obtena.7952]

The most amusing part is how people talk like this situation is exceptional. I can't think of a single game where the devs aren't responsible for it's design and they make changes that people aren't happy with ... but for some reason in GW2, players think they are at the design table and when they see something they don't like, it's Anet's job to not do it. Some of you people need to be put in your place ... patches like this should be obvious to you what your place is. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Hashberry.4510]

Ummmmmmmm, The Bad Place?

[Mike.7983]

See's this  

Hi everyone, 

As always, thank you for all the feedback you’ve shared over the past few weeks. We’ve been keeping a close eye on the discussion and it’s clear that some of the changes in Tuesday’s update didn’t land as we’d intended. Today I’ll be sharing our current plan for the next update on July 18, much of which is intended to address the most pressing issues that have been raised. 

Leading up to that release we’ll be watching your feedback to this post, this week’s beta test, and the June 27 update, and may make additional changes as needed. 

 

Thanks, 

Cal “cmc” Cohen 

Skills and Balance Lead 

What REALLY happens is 100+ pages of feedback which none of it gets applied to update...If Cal is going to ask for feedback and ignore it all completely that's massive lack of leadership and yes really do believe needs to be removed from that position.  We need passionate dev's who love the game as much as we do and are willing to communicate to the player base on changes and actually take feedback.  Not dump a june 27 post and ignore it.

[Thron Stal.9367]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:48 AM, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

To make a mistake is a perfectly human thing. It happens to the best of us, for many reasons.

But it's a whole another story when you make that mistake a month after announcing your plan, despite hundreds of people telling you it's a braindead idea that will only make things worse.

A person who makes a mistake needs help. A person who, despite feedback, pursues bad ideas at expense of customers satisfaction needs either a proper training, or just a different job. Sorry.

There is a reason why great soldiers don't always make for great commanders..

Well said.

[Thron Stal.9367]

Fix Eng, Scrapper and Mech pls

[Zephire.8049]

1 hour ago, Mike.7983 said:

If Cal is going to ask for feedback and ignore it all completely that's massive lack of leadership and yes really do believe needs to be removed from that position.

It's also rather disrespectful. People put time and thought into feedback assuming that because feedback was asked for and that it would be read/taken into consideration, which is not the case. Yes some people complain blah blah blah but it's up to the developer team to sort the chaff from the wheat, especially if they explicitly ask for it, as that's the job they're paid to do.

If there was never any intention to change things, there's no point asking for feedback. Even providing a place for feedback is questionable in that case and makes it seem like the goal isn't to gather feedback but to silo discontent to one place.

[Echostorm.9143]

7 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

It's also rather disrespectful. People put time and thought into feedback assuming that because feedback was asked for and that it would be read/taken into consideration, which is not the case. Yes some people complain blah blah blah but it's up to the developer team to sort the chaff from the wheat, especially if they explicitly ask for it, as that's the job they're paid to do.

If there was never any intention to change things, there's no point asking for feedback. Even providing a place for feedback is questionable in that case and makes it seem like the goal isn't to gather feedback but to silo discontent to one place.

This.  The "we're going to be more transparent and communicative" might as well be followed up with either "when we feel like it", "when we know you'll say nice things" or just "LOL"

People come here because we think the things we say might be seen by the devs.  If that isn't true we might as well go back to Reddit or Lemmy.