why isnt willbender nerfed in wvw? ​​

[TheGrimm.5624]

17 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

nothing new to see here                                                                                                                                                      

 

"Tbh thief mains have been doing this for years"

"That's every class with a invunerability, super speed, shrink... Skill. But none abuse it like a thief."

"WvW culture shifted in a bad way over the years. Definitely not limited to willbender, just notice they're usually all some sort of character or another lol"

"dude, i feel you honestly"

"Reason is because of the class mechanics. Attack is literally, SPAM EVERYTHING,.... then run and wait for cooldowns. Rinse and repeat. Blame Anet."

"It's budget thief"

Not a fan of the run away style of play either. That said I would also say most classes have this style of builds:

Heavy: War, Guard

Medium: Engi, Thief, Ranger

Light: Ele, Thief

 

[Dawdler.8521]

19 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

nothing new to see here                                                                                                                                                      

"Tbh thief mains have been doing this for years"

"That's every class with a invunerability, super speed, shrink... Skill. But none abuse it like a thief."

"WvW culture shifted in a bad way over the years. Definitely not limited to willbender, just notice they're usually all some sort of character or another lol"

"dude, i feel you honestly"

"Reason is because of the class mechanics. Attack is literally, SPAM EVERYTHING,.... then run and wait for cooldowns. Rinse and repeat. Blame Anet."

"It's budget thief"

If he jump dodges it probably used to be a thief main, so it actually make sense if you think about it.

[RazieL.5684]

reason willbender isn't being nerfed is the same as why harbingers aren't being nerfed, the same as why thiefs aren't being nerfed... bad players stick to them like glue because they are easy to play, extremely forgiving and gives them sense of accomplishment when facerolling... keeps players happy and keeps them playing the game...

[semak.7481]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:14 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

If he jump dodges it probably used to be a thief main, so it actually make sense if you think about it.

Thief? May be warrior? Every dogwar did it cuz of vans. 

I dont know any thief that left this dumb class for any other

8 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

reason willbender isn't being nerfed is the same as why harbingers aren't being nerfed, the same as why thiefs aren't being nerfed... bad players stick to them like glue because they are easy to play, extremely forgiving and gives them sense of accomplishment when facerolling... keeps players happy and keeps them playing the game...

I think rene/cata needs to be mentioned as well

[Burnfall.9573]

On 7/31/2023 at 4:57 PM, Burial.1958 said:

This Video is 7 Years old. Stop posting old things burnfall for once. Because now there are sentries, watchtowers, traps, target painters and several classes did get reveal skills.  Also thiefs shadow arts got reworked and he lost on several traits stealth uptime. This is really getting out of hand with you that you everytime post very old vids to actual discussions.

Btw: The thread is about willbender and not stealth.

did you bothered to check to see why I replied to the poster? It is literally there. How can you miss it? I encourage you to pay attention before replying instead of making accusation.

Old and New? Yet what changed? Stealth uptime?? Where? When?  Yet Thief Profession can still perma-stealth??

So care to tell the me and the Community, including Thief Profession players; what has those "changes" done to give Stealth Mechanic counterplay?

This is the point of the video; so carry on.....

by the way, thanks to Anet promoting exploits and stealth abuse, they gave Thief Profession; Mesmer Profession portal which is given permission to exploit the game.

here's the link

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/134953-thiefs-abusing-stoic-and-tower-glitch/page/3/#comment-1963804

care to say explain this with the reworks with lost of traits ??

Edited August 18, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

reason willbender isn't being nerfed is the same as why harbingers aren't being nerfed, the same as why thiefs aren't being nerfed... bad players stick to them like glue because they are easy to play, extremely forgiving and gives them sense of accomplishment when facerolling... keeps players happy and keeps them playing the game...

Now to be fair, as an Ex-Choppa ('waaagh' to you peeps) I admit face rolling across my keyboard to easily kills those stunties made the class look easy but....that wasn't the case either, but will leave Warhammer balance out of the discussion.

Not sure I would apply that to Willy, Harbi or Teef. Mechanics that make them hard to fight doesn't make them easy to play in my opinion. I think I would argue that classes that have the least options and builds have the easiest to play builds since they are limited in those builds. The builds mentioned have various options and if they are OP in their builds, to me, doesn't mean they are also easiest to play. But that's me while testing and playing the various build and their counter builds on other toons. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[RazieL.5684]

12 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Now to be fair, as an Ex-Choppa ('waaagh' to you peeps) I admit face rolling across my keyboard to easily kills those stunties made the class look easy but....that wasn't the case either, but will leave Warhammer balance out of the discussion.

Not sure I would apply that to Willy, Harbi or Teef. Mechanics that make them hard to fight doesn't make them easy to play in my opinion. I think I would argue that classes that have the least options and builds have the easiest to play builds since they are limited in those builds. The builds mentioned have various options and if they are OP in their builds, to me, doesn't mean they are also easiest to play. But that's me while testing and playing the various build and their counter builds on other toons. 

anything can be mastered... just some things are easier to master thanks to their forgiving nature...

[TheGrimm.5624]

19 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

anything can be mastered... just some things are easier to master thanks to their forgiving nature...

Let's compare, if you don't mind. I agree anything can be mastered. Complex or simple builds. Where we disagree, is considering the number of bad Willy, Harbi and Teef builds are out there, I disagree they  are easy to play since how many drop so fast to a variety of builds. When you face those that do well, I question is it the build or player? Since that applies to all Elites and classes, maybe food for thought.

[Dawdler.8521]

55 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Let's compare, if you don't mind. I agree anything can be mastered. Complex or simple builds. Where we disagree, is considering the number of bad Willy, Harbi and Teef builds are out there, I disagree they  are easy to play since how many drop so fast to a variety of builds. When you face those that do well, I question is it the build or player? Since that applies to all Elites and classes, maybe food for thought.

If you meet a great willbender, one of the best willbenders you've seen in months that you cant possibly beat because he just roflstomps you even when you cheese it and try 3v1, the question become really quite simple:

Why isnt this player running a core guard? 

I mean its not about the build, is it...?

[Gendalfs.7521]

11 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

reason willbender isn't being nerfed is the same as why harbingers aren't being nerfed, the same as why thiefs aren't being nerfed... bad players stick to them like glue because they are easy to play, extremely forgiving and gives them sense of accomplishment when facerolling... keeps players happy and keeps them playing the game...

Please make a rifle full signet mech good at WvW. That would make people happy and play the game. So why this isnt a thing?

[Aeolus.3615]

12 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

reason willbender isn't being nerfed is the same as why harbingers aren't being nerfed, the same as why thiefs aren't being nerfed... bad players stick to them like glue because they are easy to play, extremely forgiving and gives them sense of accomplishment when facerolling... keeps players happy and keeps them playing the game...

Classes with good evase / block capabilities should be able to deal with benders.

[Burial.1958]

11 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

did you bothered to check to see why I replied to the poster? It is literally there. How can you miss it? I encourage you to pay attention before replying instead of making accusation.

Old and New? Yet what changed? Stealth uptime?? Where? When?  Yet Thief Profession can still perma-stealth??

So care to tell the me and the Community, including Thief Profession players; what has those "changes" done to give Stealth Mechanic counterplay?

This is the point of the video; so carry on.....

by the way, thanks to Anet promoting exploits and stealth abuse, they gave Thief Profession; Mesmer Profession portal which is given permission to exploit the game.

here's the link

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/134953-thiefs-abusing-stoic-and-tower-glitch/page/3/#comment-1963804

care to say explain this with the reworks with lost of traits ??

Am I writing with a bot here or are you just acting stupid? Go read the wiki if you want it in black & white that the thief has received reworks and also nerfs.  

For that I don't know what the above has to do with the below. Exploiting do different people on different classes and the bugging on the Red Borderlands in the fortress as well as in the academy etc.  is known for years. It's not the class's fault and it's in ArenaNet's hands to fix these things.

You like to mix up arguments to gaslight the class here on Tryhard. For this you use over 5 years old videos to continue your crude confirmation bias. Give it a rest, really.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:42 PM, Sereath.1428 said:

They are probably worried about losing players, as it is a very low effort / low risk + high reward spec, which makes it very popular with the average player. Maybe not exactly worried about losing players, but worried about removing an option for beginners.
But yeah, its risk/reward ratio is completely kittened, nerfs are overdue.

This is an interesting take. Its not low effort, there a lot of people who think they play WB but they suck. Its High Risk/High Reward. You have to be in the face of your opponent during engagement non stop in order to be effective and have to play around whatever your fighting. This opens a WB up to CC and being focused down very easily. Further, WB is highly ceseptiable to condition damage. Every class has a hard counter expect when a class is broken by accident. I.E. When Vindi had unlimited dodge. That was not working as intended. 

Also WB is very, very far from top of the meta right now. Ranger hits harder than WB currently, it ports just like WB, and unlike WB it has stealth. For the record I don't think the melee Ranger OP either right now. It can load up one kill shot witch is totally acceptable and if it misses the mark it will die. Scrapper is similar, which was completely over nerfed, Mesmer can load up a 1 shot if you know how to effectively get off the combo.  So can thief. 

Sometimes when complaints like this get posted you guys dont realize your revealing how unaware of engagements you are. Its not being nerfed because its not a profession issue, your having trouble against a particular match up. You need to learn to deal with it. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[ArchonWing.9480]

12 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Let's compare, if you don't mind. I agree anything can be mastered. Complex or simple builds. Where we disagree, is considering the number of bad Willy, Harbi and Teef builds are out there, I disagree they  are easy to play since how many drop so fast to a variety of builds. When you face those that do well, I question is it the build or player? Since that applies to all Elites and classes, maybe food for thought.

While skill can be used to overcome bad plays, it is zero indicator of good game design. And considering there are basically no attempts to balance the game outside of zergs in wvw, we get this scuffed version of pvp balance for a mode it was never designed for. And we don't even get all the pvp balance either. So the likelihood of this all being well designed is close to -0.

I mean sure. What you say is the only reason why this game remains playable. The average skill level is so potato that you can get away with a lot, but once people start optimizing a bit or using a few brain cells, this quickly degenerates into nonsense, like with the recent "Rise" issue or just boonballing in general.

The game in general has also aggressively dumbed down its content in multiple aspects. Part of it is inherent-- because of the cooperative aspects, you are bound to get people to hitch a free ride. But the deadweight culture is particularly horrid in this game to the point people expect to be rewarded for having a pulse. If you have standards, you are toxic or a gatekeeper. Oh no, a pve boss requires some degree of coordination! *Angry frog noises*. And even on these forums you have people  that die to literally anything for 10 years.

And a lot of the EoD specs are definitely treated users with rubber gloves, like the original design of the Mechanist. Some dev didn't like kits because that was effort, and when they fixed it so you actually needed to control your mech, people had breakdowns because they were forced to use their brain, and it hurts when you don't use it. And then there is Guardian.  In a sense it's a pretty well designed class in that it has many options. Maybe the other classes just failed? Who really knows. All I know is they asked  "Hmm, how can we convince people to drop the busted Firebrand for Willbender?"

 

Certainly SotO doesn't inspire much either, their literally is no plan. But I guess it works, if you drive everyone with a brain away and then gaslight the rest into thinking this is the way things always were, you don't need to spend any effort.

In a sense, WvW's neglect has been a blessing too. Because it is insulated from this nonsense to a degree, and the mode inherently gatekeeps the less so inclined. I am not saying that WvW is a mode for smarter people, because it definitely is not. The base game mechanics have degenerated things so much that being a tryhard in this game is inherently futile. But. It's at least a game.

However, to compare. I would say Anet is the negligent parent that left WvW to fend for itself after it went for a smoke 8 years ago. The reason why WvW lived is due to the care of a varying around of well meaning, but ultimately unprepared foster parents (the revolving door of WvW devs). The fact that this game mode still exists, and isn't just a node collecting spot is a strength on the part of the community. They don't owe anyone else a damned thing.

Edited August 18, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/18/2023 at 3:57 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

If you meet a great willbender, one of the best willbenders you've seen in months that you cant possibly beat because he just roflstomps you even when you cheese it and try 3v1, the question become really quite simple:

Why isnt this player running a core guard? 

I mean its not about the build, is it...?

Considering a single build, up to 33 toons now. I have fought 3 that beat the same  melee toon in 3 pattern sequences. All were good in distances which was that test toon's  weakness. When switching to range on 2 of the three they fell. Without switching most of the other Willies fell on first passes versus just melee builds. Playing Willy as well, toons that use distance do quite well against them. So not sure I agree here. Considering how many that just fell to melee and even more to ranged toons, not seeing them as one that I feel the need to head to the profession sub forums to call out, IMO. Mileage will vary.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/18/2023 at 3:38 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

While skill can be used to overcome bad plays, it is zero indicator of good game design. And considering there are basically no attempts to balance the game outside of zergs in wvw, we get this scuffed version of pvp balance for a mode it was never designed for. And we don't even get all the pvp balance either. So the likelihood of this all being well designed is close to -0.

I mean sure. What you say is the only reason why this game remains playable. The average skill level is so potato that you can get away with a lot, but once people start optimizing a bit or using a few brain cells, this quickly degenerates into nonsense, like with the recent "Rise" issue or just boonballing in general.

The game in general has also aggressively dumbed down its content in multiple aspects. Part of it is inherent-- because of the cooperative aspects, you are bound to get people to hitch a free ride. But the deadweight culture is particularly horrid in this game to the point people expect to be rewarded for having a pulse. If you have standards, you are toxic or a gatekeeper. Oh no, a pve boss requires some degree of coordination! *Angry frog noises*. And even on these forums you have people  that die to literally anything for 10 years.

And a lot of the EoD specs are definitely treated users with rubber gloves, like the original design of the Mechanist. Some dev didn't like kits because that was effort, and when they fixed it so you actually needed to control your mech, people had breakdowns because they were forced to use their brain, and it hurts when you don't use it. And then there is Guardian.  In a sense it's a pretty well designed class in that it has many options. Maybe the other classes just failed? Who really knows. All I know is they asked  "Hmm, how can we convince people to drop the busted Firebrand for Willbender?"

 

Certainly SotO doesn't inspire much either, their literally is no plan. But I guess it works, if you drive everyone with a brain away and then gaslight the rest into thinking this is the way things always were, you don't need to spend any effort.

In a sense, WvW's neglect has been a blessing too. Because it is insulated from this nonsense to a degree, and the mode inherently gatekeeps the less so inclined. I am not saying that WvW is a mode for smarter people, because it definitely is not. The base game mechanics have degenerated things so much that being a tryhard in this game is inherently futile. But. It's at least a game.

However, to compare. I would say Anet is the negligent parent that left WvW to fend for itself after it went for a smoke 8 years ago. The reason why WvW lived is due to the care of a varying around of well meaning, but ultimately unprepared foster parents (the revolving door of WvW devs). The fact that this game mode still exists, and isn't just a node collecting spot is a strength on the part of the community. They don't owe anyone else a damned thing.

🙂 4 Am, too late for this one. Just don't let Sit get Splat killed in the meantime and will be back to this one 🙂 . I think the thing I like less over time is the impact of tired.  I admit I miss when 2 HRs a night was perfect. Rest well my friend.

[Ferus.3165]

On 8/18/2023 at 7:33 AM, semak.7481 said:

I think rene/cata needs to be mentioned as well

there are far more good roaming classes than those 5 mentioned. Vindi, Soulbeast, various mesmer specs, grenade scrapper... And i am not even talking about 1v1 classes just about classes that can chase/escape/survive and burst very well

[Kuma.1503]

You didn't know? WvW stands for Willbender vs Willbender

[Burnfall.9573]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:57 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not a fan of the run away style of play either. That said I would also say most classes have this style of builds:

Heavy: War, Guard

Medium: Engi, Thief, Ranger

Light: Ele, Thief

 

you accidently forgot to add Bad Design: Mesmer Profession to the list

I am beyond Extremally content that I am not going to buy the expansion including future expansions  and will use that money to invest in other game Companies who does not have Guild Wars 2 Bad Design Trash.

Never again will I ever give my money away to a game company who gives the finger to the player experience.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

The more people post, the more broken builds seem to appear.
This is feeling like more and more like Syndrome's quote from "The Incredibles",
"When everyone's broken(super), no one will be".

I mean, clearly WB is broken, but the more the "nerf WB" ppl speak, the less they seem to help their own cause XD

[Shiyo.3578]

On 7/21/2023 at 6:29 PM, Loke.1429 said:

I mean they may have had some nerfs in the past but all i see is zoom zoom zoom invuln invuln block with high damage. its far more busted than harbinger or any other spec tbh.

WvW is only balanced around ZvZ.

[manu.7539]

There is some broken builds in every class but its obvious that harbingers and willbenders could use a nerf, their damage is simply out of space. That said, I'm ok with broken builds if it make some players happy but I dont see the excitement of being sure to win almost every fights or to never die. The sensation that you may "die" in the fight is such a boost of adrenaline. Then it is a greater satisfaction when you win a tough fight.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

you accidently forgot to add Bad Design: Mesmer Profession to the list

I am beyond Extremally content that I am not going to buy the expansion including future expansions  and will use that money to invest in other game Companies who does not have Guild Wars 2 Bad Design Trash.

Never again will I ever give my money away to a game company who gives the finger to the player experience.

Burn, I never said bad, I said builds that have run away capability. But you are right, I wrote Thief twice where as it was both thief and Mez have escape options to clarify my typo.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

You didn't know? WvW stands for Willbender vs Willbender

So more nom noms for players? Crunchy munchie. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

🙂 4 Am, too late for this one. Just don't let Sit get Splat killed in the meantime and will be back to this one 🙂 . I think the thing I like less over time is the impact of tired.  I admit I miss when 2 HRs a night was perfect. Rest well my friend.

 

On 8/18/2023 at 3:38 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Context for post

Sorry to the confused peeps, I guess you need more server mates to banter with while not in game 🙂 . Looking for the Sit (joking) post, had a new to WvW harbi drop me as they out applied condis above my condi clears. Well played by them in my book and -5 to me for the wrong sequence. But its a good opening, both Willy and Harbi like the old Berserker have their own counters in builds in my book. Sit just got to lol me and see it 🙂 . But alas my ego was crushed and I ... well I lie, still choose to make bad calls and attack more than I should anyway. 🙂 So game on! 🙂 Was a fun weekend of fights all! May all your bags be full before expansion!

Note: no idea what expansion holds hence the disclaimer...