Why are they nerfing Mirage?

[chripsy.1027]

First they nerf our damage. Fine, I can still solo most things. Then they make it so we can't dodge if we are disabled. Annoying but ok I guess I have to be more careful now..... And now they have removed our protection from the trait 'Mirage Mantle'! What are the devs doing?????

[bruakumfd.4817]

I admittedly had to look this trait up on the wiki since I only played Mirage once. However, it does seem really odd that it went unchanged for years. On the other hand, it doesn't quite surprise me after the heavy nerf they gave to Well of Blood's initial heal.

[Provocative.3561]

I was a little taken back by the prot removal. But GS ambush buff makes a huge difference. Also sword ambush removing boons is amazing. I think the changes are good once you get used to them. 

[Suyheuti.1732]

My main is mesmer and I’m fan of mirage. Actually I was. Now I hate. 
I loved mirage when we used to play dueling-illusions-mirage build. Ancient times. Then some dev (everyone knows who he is) decided to buff staff, he gave alac to staff ambush just because he hated axe. Mirage’s issues started at those times. After that they are never able to put mirage on the right track. 
In my opinion, mirage mantle change was the only good thing they did since that day. Mirage traits needed this. Most of the traits are still garbage. 
The worst thing they did, removing the ability to dodge when under CC effect in PvE. 
 

I forgot to mention confusion change. Mirage’s uniqueness has gone with that change. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Suyheuti.1732

[dead.7638]

When have they not nerfed mirage, every single patch.   It would be crazy at this point to not nerf it more.   Keep the nerfs coming 🤡 m 🤡.   Don’t disappoint us.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

tbh I never really noticed the lack of prot or really cared about that trait (different strokes for diff folks) however the dodge thing was something I saw coming and even recommended doing if it gave us back our 2nd dodge (I will miss being able to use it while cc'd tho). The extra damage on my GS light show is a good change so despite losing the "cant dodge while CC'd" I just learned to adapt and moved on. I still co main mirage in WvW (moreso now the 2nd dodge is back) and minus vs very heavy condi builds (as I have very little cleanses) she does very well. 

 

Again, different strokes for different folks as mileage will vary. I just learn and move on.

[Gesbo.6420]

30 minutes ago, Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

tbh I never really noticed the lack of prot or really cared about that trait (different strokes for diff folks) however the dodge thing was something I saw coming and even recommended doing if it gave us back our 2nd dodge (I will miss being able to use it while cc'd tho). The extra damage on my GS light show is a good change so despite losing the "cant dodge while CC'd" I just learned to adapt and moved on. I still co main mirage in WvW (moreso now the 2nd dodge is back) and minus vs very heavy condi builds (as I have very little cleanses) she does very well. 

 

Again, different strokes for different folks as mileage will vary. I just learn and move on.

I understand it was a needed change but it kind of stings for the class to be unplayable for 2 years and then half effort a fix that was suggested from the very begining, you know what I mean? Not only that, now that even the damage is nerfed can we get back the cooldown and count of jaunt already... 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

10 minutes ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

I understand it was a needed change but it kind of stings for the class to be unplayable for 2 years and then half effort a fix that was suggested from the very beginning, you know what I mean? Not only that, now that even the damage is nerfed can we get back the cooldown and count of jaunt already... 

While I understand why it was considered "unplayable" I still played it and tried to make the 1 dodge work (albeit still has a positive k/d, I def worked harder with 1 dodge than 2). As for the jaunt, I wholeheartedly agree it should be put back to where it was. At least one (count or cd) without any further tradeoffs.  

[Daishi.6027]

"Why are they nerfing Mirage?"

This isn't a question for mirage specifically, this is a systemic and deep-seated history of mesmer as a whole.

But to answer the question why it's because:
Casuals cried cuz they got lost in illusions, Karl in the beginning didn't understand objective reality and never actually wanted a good balance standard only to support his bias, The "pros" who mained other classes saw mes as a threat (since it requires actually outplaying in a fair 1v1 side node when it's good) and piggy backed off the casuals crying even though any "pro mesmer" was rolling thief for tourneys that actually mattered; this is why you see so many double standards. If mesmer ever was truly OP it would be nerfed or "Band-Aid fixed" within weeks, while any other FOTM had way more than a month (with the exception of S1), and at least other classes were generally still viable after the nerfs.

The entire history of mesmer regardless of elite spec is poetry of the above and everything that followed is a rhyme.
For the current stanza; you can replace anything relevant with the discord, and that CMC is at best a short sighted hack.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Daishi.6027

[Leonidrex.5649]

Reminder that virtuoso is the only EOD spec to not win a monthly.
Reminder that despite that cata has been getting buffs while virtuoso has been getting nerfs.
Reminder that mirage is far below most specs 😄
🤡 M🤡 doesnt like mesmer, its not going to be viable, at best you can play moa chrono thats all there is, if you play anything else you are trolling your team.

[Dymo.1023]

the same they basically vanished my alac build mirage... 

[Geronmy.3298]

3 hours ago, Dymo.1023 said:

the same they basically vanished my alac build mirage... 

They should revert the changes to Chaos Vortex, at this point almost all the other adps builds hit th e30k or more while having more reliable access to it.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

They should revert the changes to Chaos Vortex, at this point almost all the other adps builds hit th e30k or more while having more reliable access to it.

Yeah that nerf never made sense to me. At one point Alacrity Mirage did have really high DPS numbers but I don't think Arena Net bother to read the Snowcrow build since it required you to run Axe in the second weapons slot halfing your Alacrity uptime. 

[Geronmy.3298]

33 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah that nerf never made sense to me. At one point Alacrity Mirage did have really high DPS numbers but I don't think Arena Net bother to read the Snowcrow build since it required you to run Axe in the second weapons slot halfing your Alacrity uptime. 

And i am 100% on defense of cutting alac outside of staff ambush. Problem is they nerfed staff due to staff/axe. Destroyed staff/axe and never reverted staff back.

It right now needs more numbers and unnerfing CV could do the trick.

Also not a fan of Speed of Sand trait. It should be mixed into mirage cloak by default and add a more interesting one imo.

 

[Burnfall.9573]

 

[Levetty.1279]

Speaking of staff, they should remove the confusion and put Burning back on it. Absolutely stupid change.

[Geronmy.3298]

Just now, Levetty.1279 said:

Speaking of staff, they should remove the confusion and put Burning back on it. Absolutely stupid change.

Confusion is ok even with the changes. They should unnerf chaos vortex for the clones.

[Requiem.9648]

I do agree that mirage nerf was absolutely unessesary especialy in PVE. It was ONLY used on very few raid bosses like Matthias, Cairn, Twins Largos and Souless Horror and main purpose was because they got realy high exposure to confusion damage. Now confusion is close to do nothing as condition damage and now actualy worst than bleeding. Basicaly now mirage in PVE are absolutely useless. I have even try the beta with dagger variant for the embush skill and that same thing it is still bad so basicaly Anet said to mirage play virtuoso cause that
ONLY mesmer variant how still great in PVE as condi dps and feel sad for mesmer.

[Salt Mode.3780]

On 8/4/2023 at 6:19 PM, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

I dont know what this video as a jab that mesmer is op or what but there are other classes that can spike just as high if not higher without a clone and just weapon skills and its on multiple units.

[Richard Marcinko.5132]

You have to keep in mind the Balance Team's Goals in balancing.  They make sure that they and their 5 friends are all happy and they nerf to the ground any class that they can't 1 shot.  The leak told us what they're doing, all we have to do is remember it.  That's why I'm playing Witcher and other games,  because Anet told me flat out my favorite class doesn't matter.

[Kozumi.5816]

Mirage isn't nerfed in WvW and is basically "hold W in the opposite direction because you can't interact with them" tier, again.

[Salt Mode.3780]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:45 AM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Mirage isn't nerfed in WvW and is basically "hold W in the opposite direction because you can't interact with them" tier, again.

Seems like a you problem...perhaps learn how the class works and it won't be so scary I dunno just a thought.

[Burnfall.9573]

13 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Seems like a you problem...perhaps learn how the class works and it won't be so scary I dunno just a thought.

As a former Mesmer Profession player; one shotting multiple players is not acceptable

There is nothing to be learn here when it is Anet who is solely to be held responsible for Bad Design.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Daishi.6027]

What makes a one shot unacceptable is how it's achieved, and how much survivability you have following it. One Shotting in general is perfectly acceptable.

I don't know about virtuoso in particular so maybe it has something in there capable of doing such with little investment (didn't seem so form the video), but in general Mesmer uses way more resources to achieve a one shot, or relies on a fickle bounce mechanic to land a certain way with a ranged weapon in melee that has terrible melee utility and 0 survivability. Compare this to Backstab/Maul builds that are both safe engaging and escaping and hit just as hard. Even if you could argue a shatter combo did 1.5-3k more on a medium armor class; that still wouldn't be comparable in the amount of risk. Mirage USED to be on par for the level of risk and resource expenditure, and basic math will reveal this to you if you compare, it's almost like the calculations were already done at the time 🤦‍♂️. Where we are now mesmer was already gutted before sweeping changes by CMC; and so when you bring in massive changes to everything, including mesmer which was already lesser, you maintain an imbalance.

I don't fully recall when it was, I think it was before the specialization patch? I think we didn't have HoT, but we had the old FFA arena still. Anyways, there was a MASSIVE survivability nerf across the board. Mesmer went mostly untouched; because at the time Rangers in particular were out sustaining huge damage and regening HP pretty steadily, and I recall Engies getting hit really hard so they couldn't effortlessly cycle their survivability until they had a cooldown advantage. It was soo long ago and I don't fully recall which patch it was; but once that nerf came, the matchups became super even, Mesmer retained it's susceptibilities, but were able to actually finish those classes off (it was more than just ranger/ele, but I forgot I just remember those two being particularly prevalent). But then, since you had classes starting to lose to mesmers by being outplayed, instead merely getting carried by the class, like in the case of ranger passively regenning through the fight to victory; they started to complain, but they only complained because it was fair. I had hoped with CMC it was going to be a return to that; clearly not.

Also just want to point out killing squishes between 25 - 70% health isn't actually a one shot, and if WvW still doesn't standardize so everyone is equal; than any footage isn't really indicative of anything.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Daishi.6027

[semak.7481]

22 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

As a former Mesmer Profession player; one shotting multiple players is not acceptable

There is nothing to be learn here when it is Anet who is solely to be held responsible for Bad Design.

Not everyone knows that you are a troll that spams these wvw videos that you didnt see yourself... in PVP sub...

Person1 complains about being farmed by Mirage, he gets a reply from Person2, you quote Person2 with random video of VIRTUOSO.

The guy didnt oneshot anything here, didnt see him landing anything remotely that resembles a "oneshot". Half of the video of him swapping stats and nothing happens, except him using rain of blades (useless crap) on some ppl that barely scratches them while hes zerk/mara, where is the damage bruh?

In fact, he is not even good , I cant possibly think why would you use F2 when your F1 ready (why he even has the YT channel and want subs? Its not like his bad FPS holds him from being good). He is a free kill with domi/dueling and no utilities to help him live, while also not producing anything that resembles the damage from a glass cannon.

You gotta step up your troll game, its too weak

Edited August 16, 2023 by semak.7481