Nerf Pig pets

[RedAvenged.5217]

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

So this is basically Ranger killed me - Nerf Rangers? ( i can't believe thats even possible these days)

That’s the secret ingredient yes

[Flowki.7194]

Pattern im seing right now is average level zerkers and soulbeasts holding W, smashing DPS keys, facetanking everything, and still being a threat if you misstime dodge/sustain.

[Myror.7521]

@Psycoprophet.8107 would not call it OP but Sword seems indeed too strong. Cause it does like 7k hits now. This in Comb with GS 7k Hits per Maul plus pets dmg is too strong in fact but nothing you can't fix by simply reduce swords dmg

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

People are just going to permeate through anything above a 1.25 modifier and call it out as being OP while they refuse to use their active defenses to mitigate it.

[Saiyan.1704]

7 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

boyce started playing it, mostly because sword rework and also ppl were not playing soulbeast cuz the you had to run gs + ranged, either axe or lb and there were 2 catas and a tempest every game making borderline impossible to play anything ranged

Was waiting for someone to finally say it...

Anyways. They need to tune down Stealth across the board, the same way they toned down stealth on DH 😕

No class should be able to stealth for 10 seconds mid fight and basically restart. It was toxic on DH pre Trap rune nerf (even if it wasn't op to begin with) and it's currently toxic on DE and Soulbeast.

[Kuma.1503]

Why am I not surprised that the instant Ele gets nerfed, Ranger magically becomes broken? 

 

[Vancho.8750]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

People are just going to permeate through anything above a 1.25 modifier and call it out as being OP while they refuse to use their active defenses to mitigate it.

I think it is more of an issue of having more kill abilities that you can run while not losing on defense. People might be pissy cause their profession might not be allowed to have that many kill abilities For example Hammer breaker had Breaching strike and Fierce blow but apparently that is too many so you have Fierce blow only now, so people like that might get irritated that some professions get to kill in 4 ways while you bob and weave to sneak in your only one.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I think it is more of an issue of having more kill abilities that you can run while not losing on defense. People might be pissy cause their profession might not be allowed to have that many kill abilities For example Hammer breaker had Breaching strike and Fierce blow but apparently that is too many so you have Fierce blow only now, so people like that might get irritated that some professions get to kill in 4 ways while you bob and weave to sneak in your only one.

Oh, I know. I personally think that some have had too many of their abilities nerfed while others have not. The ongoing legacy of Feb2020 in a nutshell.

[RedAvenged.5217]

35 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Why am I not surprised that the instant Ele gets nerfed, Ranger magically becomes broken? 

 

I actually posted after the June w.e patch that ranger had some things very OP atm.

I just didn’t think it was worth pushing the topic too hard- with invulnerable revs, 50k dps deadeyes and catas everywhere

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Why am I not surprised that the instant Ele gets nerfed, Ranger magically becomes broken? 

 

Anybody with half an idea of the game seen that comming ;/ Im not enjoying this current 3v3 either, mid/low level is just going to be full of DH small map trap spam/necro small map aoe spam/30k chrono/scrapper/SB stealth burst spam... absolute bottom of the barrel small map hold W roll face from 1 to 5 gameplay.

[bethekey.8314]

2 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Why am I not surprised that the instant Ele gets nerfed, Ranger magically becomes broken? 

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Anybody with half an idea of the game seen that comming ;/ Im not enjoying this current 3v3 either, mid/low level is just going to be full of DH small map trap spam/necro small map aoe spam/30k chrono/scrapper/SB stealth burst spam... absolute bottom of the barrel small map hold W roll face from 1 to 5 gameplay.

Yeah, Ranger has clearly been strong, just overshadowed by some other specs that were due for heavy nerfs. As those nerfs come, Ranger ascends. Not too surprising.

I faced two pig beasts a month or two ago and knew the multi-cc 15k+ damage combo was over the top. Didn't want to draw too much attention to it because things take a year to fix and it wasn't played often.

My guess as to why it wasn't played more is that most players aren't creative when making builds anymore.

Edited July 25, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Yeah, Ranger has clearly been strong, just overshadowed by some other specs that were due for heavy nerfs. As those nerfs come, Ranger ascends. Not too surprising.

I faced two pig beasts a month or two ago and knew the multi-cc 15k+ damage combo was over the top. Didn't want to draw too much attention to it because things take a year to fix and it wasn't played often.

My guess as to why it wasn't played more is that most players aren't creative when making builds anymore.

I'd rather fight power cata all day over most dps spec being used now. There are too many specs (like meme zerker, necro, chrono, scrapper, soulbeast) that can essentially hold W, smash dps keys and put all of the mitigating and dodging emphesis onto the other player, as their sustain or opener mechanics (like zerker stunbreak/chrono target drops) allow such 1 sided openers. I lost count how many times I dodged a scrapper stun opener, even dodged the second stun, blocked the first volley, then still took 15k dmg, while they didn't dodge or mitigate once. Chrono isnt much different, souldbeast certatinly is like this. Willbender was also similar, where teleporting+hold W+spam all offensive dps keys while face tanking everything.. was way too effective. Specs like power cata, herald, vindi, even hollow, have more ''stances'' to cycle through in order to do damage and sustain. I feel that is where the issue comes in with these more simply specs on a mechanical level.. most of their damage and sustain can be achieved with 1 weapon swap, and thats it. It just means they are less punishin gfor mistakes, and do more reliable damage/sustain in the hands of a bad/average player, which makes them obnovious to fight on specs with higher mechanical skill floors <effort/reward>

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Snowcross.6798]

This trait build would someday be a forum front page headline- me last 2019, meming doomhorn glass canon.

Dodge, dodge, kill ranger.

[Dreams.3128]

It's funny that we are back at it again with the pig pets because siamoth was nerfed years ago because of the SAME exact spec. Lmao. 

Balance in a nutshell everyone.

[Dreams.3128]

On 7/25/2023 at 6:32 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Maybe this playerbase is desensitised by now? but specs putting out a full hp pool of damage in 2 seconds, many doing twise the average hp pool in under 10 seconds.. I've played FPS games that had longer kill times. Dodge is a very good feature, however , it is used way to much in justifying the amount of poor balancing in this game, meta completely aside. Its almost like a person in an abusive relationship ''just leave'', only a child thinks its that simple.

 

In ways I hope all of ele is nerfed into oblivion, just so we can see how it kept many toxic specs in check, while also having a higher skill floor while at it. From what I have seen of the recent history of this game, all of the more complicated specs (like engi) have been nerfed into submission, while 5 button do all hero specs are being buffed, and defended as ''high skill'', becuase if you mess up the burst you die.. the amount of gasslighting that has went on in this playerbase to continually merge the lines of class difficulty with class effectiveness, I've seen nothing like it.

This man is speaking the gospel right now. Can I upvote this three more times?

[shion.2084]

5 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I'd rather fight power cata all day over most dps spec being used now. There are too many specs (like meme zerker, necro, chrono, scrapper, soulbeast) that can essentially hold W, smash dps keys and put all of the mitigating and dodging emphesis onto the other player, as their sustain or opener mechanics (like zerker stunbreak/chrono target drops) allow such 1 sided openers. I lost count how many times I dodged a scrapper stun opener, even dodged the second stun, blocked the first volley, then still took 15k dmg, while they didn't dodge or mitigate once. Chrono isnt much different, souldbeast certatinly is like this. Willbender was also similar, where teleporting+hold W+spam all offensive dps keys while face tanking everything.. was way too effective. Specs like power cata, herald, vindi, even hollow, have more ''stances'' to cycle through in order to do damage and sustain. I feel that is where the issue comes in with these more simply specs on a mechanical level.. most of their damage and sustain can be achieved with 1 weapon swap, and thats it. It just means they are less punishin gfor mistakes, and do more reliable damage/sustain in the hands of a bad/average player, which makes them obnovious to fight on specs with higher mechanical skill floors <effort/reward>

 

What class do you play Flowki?   Against a scrapper on the other side, I'll take a reveal trait, I'll take flash bang (which stuns them when they are full health), and often I'll run bulwark... because you can't throw a grenade in the dome.   You also have just enough with the bulwark gyro to survive their opening... and then they die in 3 shots.  But it depends what you run... against a BS, a scrapper isn't going to burst it down... or a Necro like a reaper... they won't close cause the reaper will survive the initial burst and then your in close with a reaper.   Against a ranger I will always try to close (until this hellish mele ranger variant that can one shot you), against a theif I will always try to lock with stun and close.  Typically a Dare Devil or condi theif will counter a scrapper. (Myrkko takes great glee in hunting me down across the map and I spend all my time just playing hide and seek with him).   Ele, well tempest is hard to take cause it can mitigate your range, mez... better hope they don't have moa against your 15k health.  Anyway I ask cause I'm interested... what do you play?

Scrappers really generally do well as a second line of attack between a front line when left to do their thing.   They want to come in and out.  They got one stun break and some of the worst condi cleanse... so immob or chill royally screws them.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Why am I not surprised that the instant Ele gets nerfed, Ranger magically becomes broken? 

💀☕ kitten couldn't imagine why, there's no relation between those two specs at all

18 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

My guess as to why it wasn't played more is that most players aren't creative when making builds anymore.

Truuuuuu 

Quote

No class should be able to stealth for 10 seconds mid fight and basically restart. 

@Saiyan.1704 (because I'm lazy and didnt quote properly) As long as I get the damage for committing to you and get enough init reworks that pressing one button doesnt use half my init 💀 Cant have one without the other

I'm real glad its down to 10 seconds from "permastealth" though 💀☕

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

What class do you play Flowki?   Against a scrapper on the other side, I'll take a reveal trait, I'll take flash bang (which stuns them when they are full health), and often I'll run bulwark... because you can't throw a grenade in the dome.   You also have just enough with the bulwark gyro to survive their opening... and then they die in 3 shots.  But it depends what you run... against a BS, a scrapper isn't going to burst it down... or a Necro like a reaper... they won't close cause the reaper will survive the initial burst and then your in close with a reaper.   Against a ranger I will always try to close (until this hellish mele ranger variant that can one shot you), against a theif I will always try to lock with stun and close.  Typically a Dare Devil or condi theif will counter a scrapper. (Myrkko takes great glee in hunting me down across the map and I spend all my time just playing hide and seek with him).   Ele, well tempest is hard to take cause it can mitigate your range, mez... better hope they don't have moa against your 15k health.  Anyway I ask cause I'm interested... what do you play?

Scrappers really generally do well as a second line of attack between a front line when left to do their thing.   They want to come in and out.  They got one stun break and some of the worst condi cleanse... so immob or chill royally screws them.

I mostly played core ele, tempest support, and then went into condi dps tempest and power cata.

 

 

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I mostly played core ele, tempest support, and then went into condi dps tempest and power cata.

 

 

So basically scrappers can't deal with any condi (their condi removal is tied to their toolbelt and they get one removal per toolbelt use).  they generally don't have all 4 waiting around cause those tool belts are what they do their damage and boon generation for fights with.  They are also very CC'able having on ly one stun break and no stability. 

So recommendation is CC on them... there's a skill that does an immob, that covered with a condi and then put a burn underneath them and a scrapper is dead.   They cannot survive immobility against the kind of burn an ele can do.   They could try to block but there's the trait that means even your blocks don't stop the fire... it really sucks.   As a tempest, they take a long time for scrappers to kill cause most scrappers run nades and eles have projectile denial.   But yeah the way to beat a scrapper is take away its mobility (chill is heinous to one as well).  Now they can stealth for 5 seconds or so once every 75 seconds... so that justifies a potential lighting traversal in the opposite direction.  You can move faster than they can with super speed with those mobility skills.   

Anyway those are the things I hate about fighting eles... if its of any value to you.   Oh also they just can't mele with the FA type ele.... the only way to fight those is to save up the stuns it has and out stun the stunner.  So when you see thunderclap cast, go defensive while they waste their CC, then go back and stun the crap out of them.

[Flowki.7194]

17 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

So basically scrappers can't deal with any condi (their condi removal is tied to their toolbelt and they get one removal per toolbelt use).  they generally don't have all 4 waiting around cause those tool belts are what they do their damage and boon generation for fights with.  They are also very CC'able having on ly one stun break and no stability. 

So recommendation is CC on them... there's a skill that does an immob, that covered with a condi and then put a burn underneath them and a scrapper is dead.   They cannot survive immobility against the kind of burn an ele can do.   They could try to block but there's the trait that means even your blocks don't stop the fire... it really sucks.   As a tempest, they take a long time for scrappers to kill cause most scrappers run nades and eles have projectile denial.   But yeah the way to beat a scrapper is take away its mobility (chill is heinous to one as well).  Now they can stealth for 5 seconds or so once every 75 seconds... so that justifies a potential lighting traversal in the opposite direction.  You can move faster than they can with super speed with those mobility skills.   

Anyway those are the things I hate about fighting eles... if its of any value to you.   Oh also they just can't mele with the FA type ele.... the only way to fight those is to save up the stuns it has and out stun the stunner.  So when you see thunderclap cast, go defensive while they waste their CC, then go back and stun the crap out of them.

I played scrapper for a little while, and have faced a lot of scrappers. Its not that I struggle fighting them, its an enjoyable encounter in terms of the general idea. What I dislike is the shear burst that can be done with 4 buttons. Its the same as chrono, I don't argue it is hard to play, but I dislike the target drop ability on a class with such high burst. These types of mechanics ensure the likes of scrapper/chrono get to ask the first question, and if you don't answer it with a dodge or mitigation, you face tank 15+k damage and are now utterly on the back foot. Willbender was the same, teleport>immob>faceroll dps if you do not react in time. If you do react in time, then it is from that point the fight is now even.. but such specs get a first ''free go at it'' and still have their dodges/mitigation to answer your next move (or not). In a game with such high damage, the guy who gets to unload his dps first is at a real advantedge for 95% of the playerbase.

[shion.2084]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I played scrapper for a little while, and have faced a lot of scrappers. Its not that I struggle fighting them, its an enjoyable encounter in terms of the general idea. What I dislike is the shear burst that can be done with 4 buttons. Its the same as chrono, I don't argue it is hard to play, but I dislike the target drop ability on a class with such high burst. These types of mechanics ensure the likes of scrapper/chrono get to ask the first question, and if you don't answer it with a dodge or mitigation, you face tank 15+k damage and are now utterly on the back foot. Willbender was the same, teleport>immob>faceroll dps if you do not react in time. If you do react in time, then it is from that point the fight is now even.. but such specs get a first ''free go at it'' and still have their dodges/mitigation to answer your next move (or not). In a game with such high damage, the guy who gets to unload his dps first is at a real advantedge for 95% of the playerbase.

you must really hate tru shot at 13+K from stealth then.   That's only one button.   Or gunflame... 13K unblockable twice... 2 buttons.   What does the weaver ele burst that CC's and nukes in a shot take?  I think its 5 buttons or so.... Mesmer stealth burst about the same....   Yeah there's a lot of that around.   Has to be because of the ridiculous sustain and defensives of classes out there.  And soul beast? a few more buttons but much more stuff it does at the same time.

Edited July 26, 2023 by shion.2084

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Dont nerf pig, nerf ranger defenses.

[Mell.4873]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:29 PM, Szymon.5369 said:

Doubly confusing because this skill has gotten zero changes since 2020, and now it's somehow obviously crazy op. How did this stay undercover that long and why did it surface now?...

I'm lost there are two posts on this with some people saying it a common build. I have literally never seen this in US PvP servers must the EU issue.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

you must really hate tru shot at 13+K from stealth then.   That's only one button.   Or gunflame... 13K unblockable twice... 2 buttons.   What does the weaver ele burst that CC's and nukes in a shot take?  I think its 5 buttons or so.... Mesmer stealth burst about the same....   Yeah there's a lot of that around.   Has to be because of the ridiculous sustain and defensives of classes out there.  And soul beast? a few more buttons but much more stuff it does at the same time.

I just think the majority of this playerbase have a power creep complex, and want to be a demi-god dps that can do everything. You only have to look as far as the average SPB main, complaining they are easy to kite (which is not true for many situations), on a spec that has the highest player control in the game. I mean.. think about that mentality, they are indirectly asking for a mobility buff on a class with the highest cc potential. This is the same mentality of players that think multiple specs doing over half a players health pool in 1 hit is ok becuase ''just dodge'' or ''but im so squishy''. Equally, with condi cata I could say ''just clense'', which is true, becuase rev cent support hard countered condi cata, yet nobody even bothered to play it, becuase it's support. But now that SB is doing high damage? everybody is jumping over to that (just like they did scrapper, condi cata etc), which highlights what this playerbase is all about.

 

I mostly played an off meta power cata build that was for +1s, especially small skirmishes. It was scepter/dagger, with all gear toward increased damage at-50% hp, and then stuns breaks/light flash. Dragon tooth was hitting for 6-8k (depending on hp) pheonix was doing 12-18k, ring of fire 5k or so, fire grab 8-12k, all of this was x2 with celerity, and then into water for 6-8k trident crits, while having 17k hp (which is quite a lot for what is ultimately glass cannon). The damage is rediculous, and I've killed 2 to 3 people at the same time multiple times, like I mean downed then killed outright from the dps chain. The only reason I could justify that amount of rediculous damage is becuase you had 0 sustain and died for the slightest mistake (no super speed). SB reminds me a little like this, only they have far more staying power while spewing out that damage, with half the buttons required. On cata I had to leave as soon as I was pressured enough, a bit like DD or scrapper. The point is, specs like this can be achieved on multiple classes, and it only takes some slight buffs here and there for such a spec to suddenly reach demigod status, when that sustain reaches a point that it lets them hang around long enough to spew out a super nova.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sandzibar.5134]

14 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I mostly played core ele, tempest support, and then went into condi dps tempest and power cata

Id place money that you have 0 issues with current balance for projectile using classes due to your access to reflect aura etc uptime.

Its just melee rangers that need nerfing into the ground right? 😁