Why Ranger and Warrior are jokes

[Waffles.5632]

23 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Waffles.5632 Mine was also a old meme that you See often in warr Forum xD

 😄 Great minds think alike!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

28 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

And? I play ranked, and never see any power catas at all, and only a condi cata every 10 games if that

That's because it's 3v3 season and everyone is running full supports. There are plenty of people still playing Eles in ATs.

29 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The avg level playerase is full of warriors, necros and now soulbeasts, and there are more core gaurds than tempests

That's because Scourge is now amazingly effective & easy to play support for 3v3s.

That's because Warrior has banner for immediate stomp/revive and also functions as half support with shouts while still having great DPS/CCs for 3v3s.

That's because Core Guard is also a ridiculously easy to play support in 3v3s.

The part about Soulbeast is bologna though. Aint no one playing Soulbeast in 3s unless they are like top 5% Ranger. It dies way too easy when trying to play into some jank like a triple Scourge comp in those small arenas.

34 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You don't even know how bad the scepter nerf was to many ele specs

It only effected bad Ele players who liked to camp fire auto 1.

It barely effected better Ele players at all, who actually swap attunements and use all their skills.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

We starting to feel the game wide consequences of nerfing an entire class that had a high skill floor and effectiveness I see?... reap what you 

Ele and its specs are still very verystrong, don't act like it's not extremely viable still. "SHAVE"a bit off swords damage, and nerf the pig and rangers strong still but not broken, compare that to the hammering catalyst got and yet still remains very strong. The two arnt even close to comparable. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Flowki.7194]

42 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's because it's 3v3 season and everyone is running full supports. There are plenty of people still playing Eles in ATs.

That's because Scourge is now amazingly effective & easy to play support for 3v3s.

That's because Warrior has banner for immediate stomp/revive and also functions as half support with shouts while still having great DPS/CCs for 3v3s.

That's because Core Guard is also a ridiculously easy to play support in 3v3s.

The part about Soulbeast is bologna though. Aint no one playing Soulbeast in 3s unless they are like top 5% Ranger. It dies way too easy when trying to play into some jank like a triple Scourge comp in those small arenas.

It only effected bad Ele players who liked to camp fire auto 1.

It barely effected better Ele players at all, who actually swap attunements and use all their skills.

Gaurds are all over unranked, and were regularly in ranked before patch, you have some serious comprehention issues.

You are making arguments from levels most of the playerbase don't play at.

Necro as always been easy since Ive played the game.. and it has always been highly represented in pvp, don't act like scourge is something new.

Scrapper also has stomp/revive, yet I see 5x more warriors. There are many supports with res, yet I see 10x more warriors. So, there is dps and supports that can carry harder than warrior, have res and/or stomp.. but are not being played as much as warrior. Safe to say its not about that.

 

Core gaurd, now we are getting somewhere.. lower skill floor specs  are indirectly buffed when a high skill floor spec takes a nerf to its effectiveness. Been trying to get this conversation out of you.. seems like it took a class that was not your belovid ranger to awknowledge it.

 

Now you are talking absolute rubbish. There were plenty of decent tempests using hybrid scepter builds, with one or two sigs before the buff. You don't just sit in fire auto.. that was only possible with condi cata spamming stability from sigs. Scepter tempest used earth+overload for multiple reason as openers, along with fire dmg and obviously air/water sustain. The reason to play it was that it could support in the games you had decent dps, and it could carry with its DPs, upto a point, in the games where you had newb dps. Staff does not carry newb dps at all, neither does any other such support. Because the tempest had to change attunements, the dmg ramps down fast when you get pressured, which was fine, its part of what balanced it and seperated good from bad (cata removed that line). Weavers also played with scepter, and the scepter/dagger/sig changes also made a half decent core ele spec, similar to tempest, but not as effective. I do agree the condi damage on auto was a joke, never defended that at all, but instead of spreading it across abilitys like dragon tooth.. which is already broadcasted to fk.. they nerfed fire and earth scepter condi by 70% over all. Now its like staff level damage.. you do more damage with feel the burn/auras.

 

Better ele players? you mean the top 5% who have played the game for like 5 year.. and are playing staff or daggerMH with a compitant team mate/s? You base all of your arguments off of elitism. At the top, skill ceilings etc don't matter. For the middle and lower playerbase, its skill floors that matter. Ele has a high skill floor, many specs have a lower skill floor. The matchmaking in this low playerbase constantly mixes plats/golds/silvers together. Scepter was not optimal in the perfect encironment, all equally skilled players.. but it was by far the most optimal in the most realistic case for the avg solo que tempest and rng elo team mates. So, a nerf to the only build that realistically made tempest tolerable in ranked has been completely gutted, and people are clearly not playing tempest near as much now, just like the other supports that put out very little damage in full support.. so become spectators with bad dps.. its simply not fun to play like that.

 

Please do jump on staff, solo que, and show me your hard carry from bronze to P3.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Khalisto.5780]

i wouldnt mind soulbeast so much, this build has been there for a while now, i wasnt aware of boar att, but it only takes 2 nerfs,  1 to boar f1 and another one to sword 2 this build is prolly going back to gimmick level.

To be fair i get more annoyed by untamed pet cc than I do with this whole overtuned state of soulbeast

zerker build prolly needs just 8 secs icd to eternal champion so berserker can't get straight 4 seconds of almost complete immunity every 15 seconds

bladesworn is so bad design that it's one of those classes if the numbers are a bit high is god mode and a bit low is completely useless, the last round of buffs pushed it into this a bit too much level

Edited July 29, 2023 by Khalisto.5780

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

18 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Bladesworn

Because they designed it around not moving then found out not moving means you take a lotta damage. 💀

They designed themselves into a corner. The only way they can realistically expect dragon trigger to hit is if it ignores all the mitigating mechanics in the game beyond evading and invuln, and the class is recent paid content so they have incentive to ensure it works. 

Its a symptom of Anet not understanding warrior. Granted, this doesnt mean the design is excusable for that reason.

Quote

Berserker

Condi or power?

If condi, condi was already good in some cases before changes made to attempt to solve lacking power builds. *shrug* now its tankier.

If power, *laughs in arc divider and constantly getting nerfed with random changes*

Edited July 29, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If condi, condi was already good in some cases before changes made to attempt to solve lacking power builds. *shrug* now its tankier.

 

i really really dislike that their solution to zerker buffs was to just be like "lol u take no damage half the time now, go sidenode" instead of doing something like making it a decent teamfight spec, so warrior actually had some role variety

[shion.2084]

19 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Stop making me a poster boy villain. In the other thread, I was the first person to show up and explain to you exactly what is wrong with these builds and how to nerf it.

Here is what is going on:

1. The pig maul and prelude are too strong in melee. Pig maul on its own is dealing a lot more damage than even worldly impact for some reason. Prelude was never a problem until these build structures appeared, which is making the pull into 2s immob problematic. Prelude is now problematic because damage is way higher than normal.
2. The reason why damage is way higher than normal is largely/mostly because of how much might stacking these builds have. There is seriously way too much might stacking for how much general raw damage the build already has. Read all of these sources of might stacking and you'll see where these builds are gaining so much more damage than normal traditional Soulbeast builds: Strider's Strength - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) -- Griffon Stance - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) so you pair these two together with the free evades from griffon and the evades from swords and the evade on Smoke Assault merged skill which also stacks natural might on top of Strider and Griffon Smoke Assault (soulbeast) - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) -- then we're talking might stacks from beast mastery which when merged, each proc from pet and ranger both effect ranger Potent Ally - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) -- then you also have sword auto might stack on 3rd swing  Precision Swipe - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) -- and this isn't accounting for courge or battle sigils being used.

So at least know what you're complaining about. Traditional Soulbeast builds had always been generating low might if they had any might to generate at all. This new melee build has found a way to generate self 25 might on-demand. This is why its damage is waaay over the top. Nothing has changed other than it finding a way to generate self 25 might.

The pig maul by default is dealing too much damage. Prelude is kind of debatable imo but a lot of people are upset with it atm. But it isn't the Sword buffs where the damage is coming from or Warhorn. It's the easy 25 might stacking. <- This is where the problem is.

They need to just remove most of that might stacking. It would feel like a normal Soulbeast if it was generating 5-6 stacks of might instead of 25 might. If you took away that might stacking it would easily remove like 1/4th or 1/3rd of that damage output.

I’m seeing an untamed variant with possibly more CC.  Not sure which is worse…

[bethekey.8314]

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Because they designed it around not moving then found out not moving means you take a lotta damage. 💀

They designed themselves into a corner. The only way they can realistically expect dragon trigger to hit is if it ignores all the mitigating mechanics in the game beyond evading and invuln, and the class is recent paid content so they have incentive to ensure it works. 

Its a symptom of Anet not understanding warrior. Granted, this doesnt mean the design is excusable for that reason.

For Dragon Trigger, they need to make a decision. There are maybe four basic attributes to consider for a skill: 1) damage 2) cooldown 3) hit consistency 4) utility. You can't have high damage + low cooldown + high hit rate + high utility in a single ability. Dragon Trigger has all four, and other aspects of Bladesworn need addressing too (sustain, reflect etc).

For any ranged spec, Bladesworn in Dragon Trigger is essentially invulnerable due to reflect. If you wait out the 2 sec Aegis to do any counter pressure, they've now built up more damage than you can probably do and will out-sustain you too. I've watched Dragon Whatever hit for 8k+ AoE. I've watched Bladesworns spam it for ridiculous mobility. The teleports + range + lack of counter pressure + low cooldown in Dragon Trigger greatly improves their ability to hit too. It's like a Quarterback having unlimited time to throw.

They designed themselves into a corner with Mechanist too. Same "recent" paid content. Mechanist is in the dumpster and I don't see it leaving anytime soon.

Edited July 30, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Downstate.4697]

1 hour ago, shion.2084 said:

I’m seeing an untamed variant with possibly more CC.  Not sure which is worse…

The untamed variant is a side noder with far less burst damage. It’s another Boyce creation that has more favorable match ups than longbow.

Trevor is on the right track with how to adjust it. I think a hit to maul damage, some shaves to might and then maybe a nerf to one wolf pack. Warhorn 4 isn’t super strong on its own.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

They could possibly make One Wolf Pack give a certain amount of stacks (say, 5 for example) or reduce the number of hits on warhorn 4 (while keeping the damage) to reduce synergy with OWP.

[Dreams.3128]

22 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Those Soulbeast builds don't use unblockables my dude.

Rangers don't have unblockable attacks unless they bring Sig Of Hunt which isn't worth using for several reasons.

Cata on the other hand actually does have unblockable attacks like Gale, that are naturally unblockable without needing traits or utility skills tied in.

 

On a high cooldown. Y'all seem to forget gale is used to initiate an Ele combo or chain the combo. It's not just some spammable unblockable CC that can't be dodged.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said:

The untamed variant is a side noder with far less burst damage. It’s another Boyce creation that has more favorable match ups than longbow.

Trevor is on the right track with how to adjust it. I think a hit to maul damage, some shaves to might and then maybe a nerf to one wolf pack. Warhorn 4 isn’t super strong on its own.

I seriously advocate completely eliminating the might stacks from Strider's, Griffon, and even Smoke Assault. It's just way too much.

The last thing I want to see is shaves to too many actual weapon skills. The thing is that these weapon skills are not problems on any other build and never have been, outside of what's going on lately. The only skills that actually need adjusting based on general principle is the pig maul, which is honestly dealing an absurdly high amount of base damage. It's substantially higher than worldly impact for some reason. And then Sword 3 & 2 need a shave to their coefficients. Other than that, they need to leave stuff alone. I don't think people realize how FAST Ranger will be put into a state of complete non-viability if they start listening to the gold community and start nerfing the balls off of all the band wagon remarks going on lately.

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

They could possibly make One Wolf Pack give a certain amount of stacks (say, 5 for example) or reduce the number of hits on warhorn 4 (while keeping the damage) to reduce synergy with OWP.

They need to leave OWP alone. This skill has remained non-problematic for years. Some people may find it annoying, but annoying isn't the same as OP. It being annoying hasn't exactly granted Soulbeast any representation rate in MATs, and I'm talking virtually 0% representation rate in the past 5 or 6 years, outside of a ridiculously small amount of Ranger mains who play it not because it's amazing, but because it's just the class they main.

Making Warhorn 4 less damage ticks would be the way to go, if people are really that concerned about Warhorn + OWP.

[Dreams.3128]

13 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Ele and its specs are still very verystrong, don't act like it's not extremely viable still. "SHAVE"a bit off swords damage, and nerf the pig and rangers strong still but not broken, compare that to the hammering catalyst got and yet still remains very strong. The two arnt even close to comparable. 

You must have forgot the thirteen other nerfs Soulbeast had to take to get it properly in line and considered what you all would considered 'balanced'. Let's not lie, SB was doing dumb kitten for years until Anet gave it the Cata treatment,

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

You must have forgot the thirteen other nerfs Soulbeast had to take to get it properly in line and considered what you all would considered 'balanced'. Let's not lie, SB was doing dumb kitten for years until Anet gave it the Cata treatment,

outside of boonbeast (which did not last that long compared to most specs including cata)  you never saw soulbeast in competitive. Trying to make seem like an equivalent to cata is wild.

Edited July 30, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Dreams.3128]

29 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

outside of boonbeast (which did not last that long compared to most specs including cata)  you never saw soulbeast in competitive. Trying to make seem like an equivalent to cata is wild.

Excuse me, what? Yes you actually did, what are you talking about? I saw Soulbeasts literally up until P1/P2. They stop showing up at high end of p2/p3.

Can y'all stop for like two seconds and stop acting like the PvP world is only in p3/legend/ATs. Lord.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

18 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Excuse me, what? Yes you actually did, what are you talking about? I saw Soulbeasts literally up until P1/P2. They stop showing up at high end of p2/p3.

Can y'all stop for like two seconds and stop acting like the PvP world is only in p3/legend/ATs. Lord.

He's talking about tournaments.

Soulbeast in ranked is exactly what I've been describing to you, it can stomp noobs in environments where p+ is mixed with s3+. In actual competitive games though, in tournaments, where you've got p2+ vs. p2+, soulbeast has been a liability for years man. Boonbeast was the only one to ever seen tournament representation and it was nerfed nearly immediately. I'm talking like immediately, as soon as it appeared.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

For Dragon Trigger, they need to make a decision. There are maybe four basic attributes to consider for a skill: 1) damage 2) cooldown 3) hit consistency 4) utility. You can't have high damage + low cooldown + high hit rate + high utility in a single ability. Dragon Trigger has all four, and other aspects of Bladesworn need addressing too (sustain, reflect etc).

For any ranged spec, Bladesworn in Dragon Trigger is essentially invulnerable due to reflect. If you wait out the 2 sec Aegis to do any counter pressure, they've now built up more damage than you can probably do and will out-sustain you too. I've watched Dragon Whatever hit for 8k+ AoE. I've watched Bladesworns spam it for ridiculous mobility. The teleports + range + lack of counter pressure + low cooldown in Dragon Trigger greatly improves their ability to hit too. It's like a Quarterback having unlimited time to throw.

They designed themselves into a corner with Mechanist too. Same "recent" paid content. Mechanist is in the dumpster and I don't see it leaving anytime soon.

*Shrug* 

I'm not disagreeing with this statement. Just constantly disappointed in warrior design fumbling an experience that is skill-based in favor of bunker nonsense. 

Quote

zerker build prolly needs just 8 secs icd to eternal champion so berserker can't get straight 4 seconds of almost complete immunity every 15 seconds

Whatever. Put damage back on bloody roar and un-rework arc divider then sure. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Endo.1652]

Once these specs get nerfed, I wonder what specs the forums will complain about next?

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Once these specs get nerfed, I wonder what specs the forums will complain about next?

Calling it now, Vindi or Herald with a shortbow, when that happens. Currently ive also seen some nast specter players, but im still not very sure how it works, and if its easily countered. Anybody can say?

Edited July 30, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Mell.4873]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:52 PM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Just wait for wild Trevor to appear and write an essay how that Ranger build is noobstomper with being as vague as humanly possible.
Most funny thing is, that kitten isn't even new... 

Be careful, calling someone out by name it is considered harassment. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

What about Grenade super speed Scrapper let's nerf that too if you we are all on board for more nerfs. 

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Once these specs get nerfed, I wonder what specs the forums will complain about next?

This forum wont stop until every build feels soulless and bland.

Sticks for everybody!

Edited July 31, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

@Khalisto.5780 the Problem with zerkers Defence is not even the Seconds immune to Power dmg but its the comb between this and dead or alive. (Basicly immunity plus a near full heal at Same time) But this is also only realy a Problem on condi zerker caused of how conditions just Work. Also when it comes to warr there is actually only high defence ones available sadly. I would by far prefer warr to get more power dmg instead of stupid self healing carry 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Poelala.2830]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:21 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

The only people who think this build is okay are the ones currently being carried by it. Have you noticed Poe hasn't been playing since cata got nerfed? Wonder why 

LOOOOL