Relics are OP

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i got a fancy hat for preordering

Hat go brrrrr.

[Nugatory.8920]

42 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i got a fancy hat for preordering

I bought a hat and got some other stuff I didn't really want.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Hmm all the +25% movement speed runes are gone, so looks like getting a source of swift and speed seems like the best idea. Ugh lol.

Oh god, these expansion relics. Not out yet, but reeks of p2w

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Cerus

Edited August 22, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

10 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Hmm all the +25% movement speed runes are gone, so looks like getting a source of swift and speed seems like the best idea. Ugh lol.

Actually there's 3 around still, travelers, surging, and cavalier.

[Riba.3271]

Yep, speed relic needs nerf.

People should note that speed runes gave only useless stats before (vitality and swiftness duration). That is why the effect seemed balanced in the past. In comparison a proper runeset gave you around 600 stats worth of value.

Now you get the stats and the effect.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Riba.3271

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Actually there's 3 around still, travelers, surging, and cavalier.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic

Couldn't find them. I mean the runes exist, but the 25% movement speed part I haven't found yet.

lol I just put speed on everything.

Edited August 22, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[SleepyBat.9034]

Just now, ArchonWing.9480 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic

Couldn't find them. I mean the runes exist, but the 25% movement speed part I haven't found yet.

lol I just put speed on everything.

There are no +25% move speed relics, only runes. The Surging rune can be bought from a vendor in wvw.

[XenesisII.1540]

9 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic

Couldn't find them. I mean the runes exist, but the 25% movement speed part I haven't found yet.

lol I just put speed on everything.

You mentioned runes not relics 🤭

[ArchonWing.9480]

19 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You mentioned runes not relics 🤭

Yes, but technically they aren't 25% movement xD

Also ngl my brain is fried managing all this new stuff.

[KrHome.1920]

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Yep, speed relic needs nerf.

People should note that speed runes gave only useless stats before (vitality and swiftness duration). That is why the effect seemed balanced in the past. In comparison a proper runeset gave you around 600 stats worth of value.

Now you get the stats and the effect.

That's the whole point of the relics. Getting rid of useless combinations and giving players actual useful options. It's a no brainer that this leads to buffs. Why some of you think the speed relic is OP is beyond me. It's substantually weaker without the +50% swiftness duration of the rune. I have to pick 3 swiftness sources in my build to make it acually preferable over other stuff while before 2 swiftness sources where enough. This significally weakens the build elsewhere. But now I can compensate this with more fitting attributes on the rune. Current favorite for power based roaming builds: Infiltration rune + speed relic.

Overall not much changed in terms of balancing but we got a lot more options to define our builds, which is great.

If you are worried about celestial builds: That attribute combination is broken with a lot of stuff, so nerf cele and not other things that are totally fine otherwise. Celestial elementalists might as much benefit from the warrior relic (minus 25% cooldown for weapon swaps) as from the speed relic.

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Hmm all the +25% movement speed runes are gone, so looks like getting a source of swift and speed seems like the best idea. Ugh lol.

Oh god, these expansion relics. Not out yet, but reeks of p2w

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Cerus

Have you tried it? I have and I can tell you it's super bad mechanically. Wizard's tower relic also looks broken when you look a the description. It also isn't when you actually try it.

Edited August 23, 2023 by KrHome.1920

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You mentioned runes not relics 🤭

Oh wait, you were right. The movement speed is on the rune itself  still lol. What?

[Junkpile.7439]

3 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

That's the whole point of the relics. Getting rid of useless combinations and giving players actual useful options. It's a no brainer that this leads to buffs. Why some of you think the speed relic is OP is beyond me. It's substantually weaker without the +50% swiftness duration of the rune. I have to pick 3 swiftness sources in my build to make it acually preferable over other stuff while before 2 swiftness sources where enough. This significally weakens the build elsewhere. But now I can compensate this with more fitting attributes on the rune. Current favorite for power based roaming builds: Infiltration rune + speed relic.

Overall not much changed in terms of balancing but we got a lot more options to define our builds, which is great.

If you are worried about celestial builds: That attribute combination is broken with a lot of stuff, so nerf cele and not other things that are totally fine otherwise. Celestial elementalists might as much benefit from the warrior relic (minus 25% cooldown for weapon swaps) as from the speed relic.

Have you tried it? I have and I can tell you it's super bad mechanically. Wizard's tower relic also looks broken when you look a the description. It also isn't when you actually try it.

Wizard's tower relic doesn't seem to do anything against mobs. Maybe it just have stupid short range.

[babana.7521]

Remove everything from WvW Already LMAO, so fast to complaint 

[Zebulon.1850]

What is even happening in this thread... If people actually tried the relics they are talking about, they would see that most of them are horrible. Ex. relic of cerus is more about showing off than actually doing anything.

And the only reason relic of speed is so good is because they deleted or nerfed all the other good ones. It's only good by comparison, because all the rest are fairly mediocre (with just a couple exceptions).

[Sereath.1428]

34 minutes ago, Zebulon.1850 said:

What is even happening in this thread... If people actually tried the relics they are talking about, they would see that most of them are horrible. Ex. relic of cerus is more about showing off than actually doing anything.

And the only reason relic of speed is so good is because they deleted or nerfed all the other good ones. It's only good by comparison, because all the rest are fairly mediocre (with just a couple exceptions).

Yeah and it's funny because player themselves are the main reason most relics released this weak.
PvP forums already have a thesis in there on why Antitoxin is going to ruin the gamemode (yeah, even with that icd). They got so used to Divinity being the only good rune.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[hugeboss.5432]

There are speed caps for movement (about +40% out-of-combat iirc), and they are different for in & out of combat (unless these have been removed or bugged atm). But at +66% you normally wouldn't actually move much faster than a player with swiftness when "out of combat" (I will check it though, maybe they did remove the speed caps).

[ArchonWing.9480]

23 minutes ago, hugeboss.5432 said:

There are speed caps for movement (about +40% out-of-combat iirc), and they are different for in & out of combat (unless these have been removed or bugged atm). But at +66% you normally wouldn't actually move much faster than a player with swiftness when "out of combat" (I will check it though, maybe they did remove the speed caps).

Out of combat, yes it doesn't matter and you could mount anyways.  But it is a significant advantage in combat.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_Speed#Movement_speed_bonuses_and_debuffs

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Riba.3271]

5 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

That's the whole point of the relics. Getting rid of useless combinations and giving players actual useful options. It's a no brainer that this leads to buffs. Why some of you think the speed relic is OP is beyond me. It's substantually weaker without the +50% swiftness duration of the rune. I have to pick 3 swiftness sources in my build to make it acually preferable over other stuff while before 2 swiftness sources where enough. This significally weakens the build elsewhere. But now I can compensate this with more fitting attributes on the rune. Current favorite for power based roaming builds: Infiltration rune + speed relic.

Overall not much changed in terms of balancing but we got a lot more options to define our builds, which is great.

If you are worried about celestial builds: That attribute combination is broken with a lot of stuff, so nerf cele and not other things that are totally fine otherwise. Celestial elementalists might as much benefit from the warrior relic (minus 25% cooldown for weapon swaps) as from the speed relic.

Well, even in roaming 66% extra movement speed momentarily, will be way more sustain or damage than 10% conditional modifier.
Movement speed in general is often misused by players. Speed runes do following as long as you have swiftness:

1. Make cripple and chill do almost nothing. Since movement speed buffs and debuffs are additive in this game, chilled foe will have doubled the movement speed if they have Speed relic active.
2. Makes you able to choose your fight and disengage from a fight. Now of course this doesn't always apply to oneshot roamers, but in group fights this is always strong effect. 1 wrong step separates you from life and death.
3. It allows you to move further forward during moments you see an opening. Meaning you will hit more players earlier, which is always more than double the effect than other damage relics would always give.
4. If you move 50+% faster, pulsing fields will tick 33%+ less times on you when you pass over them. Obviously a big deal in group fight.

Anyways, there is a reason they nerfed Speed runes in PvP (Where there is much less boon duration available). And in WvW they're even more busted since Firebrand already had 4 AoE swiftness applications, and rest of party and condi conversion will provide at least 6 AoE applications more. So in group setting, you don't even need to bring swiftness in your build, and you can slap speed relic in and zoom around taking 33% less damage from pulsing fields and dealing 20% more by reaching more targets earlier. All you're sacrificing is measly 10% conditional damage modifier.

Quote

It's substantually weaker without the +50% swiftness duration of the rune

Almost all runes got statwise weaker as their 6th bonus got replaced by 125 stats or they lost 10% maximum health. But now you can take combine relic with example Fireworks runes, and have 175 power + 25% boon duration + Speed effect. Current fireworks rune with speed relic is much superior to old speed rune: It isn't like you can survive only on 1 boon

Edited August 23, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Razi.6031]

Luckily WB has 25% mov speed baseline.. I've been alternating between speed relic and brawler relic.

 

Tbh the speed relic I find kinda redundant as I have constant swiftness and a lot of movement skills and gap closers. So don't really need it. But I'm finding Brawlers great as I have constant protection and resolution uptime for the +10% strike damage.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Razi.6031

[Vanz.8753]

antitoxin nerf reinforces the condi cele meta. I can't for the life of me understand why the nerf when cele harb / ren /cata exist.
add speed runes as they are to this mix and these cele specs are gonna be oppressive

[Sandzibar.5134]

9 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Yep, speed relic needs nerf.

People should note that speed runes gave only useless stats before (vitality and swiftness duration). That is why the effect seemed balanced in the past. In comparison a proper runeset gave you around 600 stats worth of value.

Now you get the stats and the effect.

Im not even sure the effect is working.

My speed with swiftness and no relic seems the same as with the speed relic equipped.

Not seeing an increase in dmg with fireworks relic either.

More testing required.

[RazieL.5684]

7 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Celestial elementalists might as much benefit from the warrior relic (minus 25% cooldown for weapon swaps) as from the speed relic.

so not at all? i don't get it... is this supposed to be a joke?

please don't talk about buffs and nerfs ESPECIALLY to ele...

[Grand Marshal.4098]

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Hmm all the +25% movement speed runes are gone, so looks like getting a source of swift and speed seems like the best idea. Ugh lol.

Oh god, these expansion relics. Not out yet, but reeks of p2w

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Cerus

A relic better than WoD??? Crazy, now it all makes sense why SpB is nerfed to death! You were meant to play it with this relic!11111

[Aeolus.3615]

15 hours ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

thats what iam running since 1 hour 😄

nerf incoming ....

Many players havent realised that this system is basicly u can custumize your own rune xD just that intead of selecting the rune 6th effect on the rune u get it in a slot.

In a way i think its nice, it can become super strong in some cases yes but that is a good thing since can possible kitten players gameplay

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

 Why some of you think the speed relic is OP is beyond me. It's substantually weaker without the +50% swiftness duration of the rune.

  

8 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

.But now I can compensate this with more fitting attributes on the rune. Current favorite for power based roaming builds: Infiltration rune + speed relic.

???

I don't know how something like scholar rune + speed relic is worse than speed runes before.  You don't need 20 seconds of swiftness to be effective, a lot of times the duration on it was overkill.

They did really shift the meta though in a stupid way.  The 5s ICD on anti-toxin needs to go if they are going to keep the condi spam around, and speed being plain BIS is kinda ridiculous.