I just had the most uncomfortable experience in GW2 since game launch

[Kovac.4372]

Today has been a bit slow getting an IBS 5 group going. Been waiting alone advertising my group for some 5 minutes. So I take another look at the tab and notice another 1/10 group for IBS 5 + DS, decide to join them.

Group starts filling up. We're in Shiverpeaks Pass. Commander asks me for my role. I'm on my soulbeast, so I say dps. Commander gets mad at me because group advertised qdps and alac. I say I joined when it was 1/10, you don't need a whole squad full of qdps alac do you? Plus this is strikes, not raids, it's a breeze. I get berated like "if everyone thought like you blablabla". I'm like whatever, didn't reply..

Strikes go fine. My damage is good. At last one, Boneskinner, I get a whisper from commander saying I shouldn't say I'm dps when my dps is lower than some alac in the group. I figure the guy is looking at some of those dps tracking mods and comparing me to a probably better player. But like, I know I'm doing good, the dude is being pedantic, and at this point very annoying considering I've done a bazillion strike runs and never had any issues. Boneskinner goes well, no problems from me, good damage, didn't down once, helped rez downed players, Boneskinner dead fast.

I enter DS, decide to whisper back to the commander - "I'm doing fine, you've got some issues friend"

Commander kicks me out of squad.

"Case and point" I send them.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Kovac.4372

[Omega.6801]

The comm may ask for whatever they please, And if they ask for "qdps, alac" it is their right to do so. Usually they do so, because dps fills fast and they want other roles set before that. So in that regard, they were right and you probably made a bad impression from the get go. Then, if your dps actually was lower than that of a support class, you didn't play your role, so I'd say they were right about kicking you from the group. It's not about "did we manage to clear the content" it's actually about principle and about "if everyone would do that", social contract kinda stuff.
Next time, if the lfg says it wants a specific role, join as that role or don't join.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Omega.6801

[Justine.6351]

People get so salty over a game. Love it.

[LeSavage.1359]

If this was your most uncomfortable experience ever since launch of GW2, then you are so goddamn lucky 😄

Edited August 26, 2023 by LeSavage.1359

[Jilora.9524]

7 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

The comm may ask for whatever they please, And if they ask for "qdps, alac" it is their right to do so. Usually they do so, because dps fills fast and they want other set before that. So in that regard, he was right and you probably made a bad impression from the get go. Then, if your dps actually was lower than that of a support class, you kinda didn't play your role, so I'd say they were right about kicking you from the group. It's not about "did we manage to clear the content" it's actually about principle and about "if everyone would do that", social contract kinda stuff.
Next time, if the lfg says it wants a specific role, join as that role or don't join.

Ya cuz no dps ever in the history of lfg has ever joined a group with a msg qdps alac. Everyone just waits till it says need 6dps then we all rush in. The dude joined at 1/10. Sure if dps low you gonna get kicked regardless. Some players think just because they stay alive and others get downed they automatically doing better.

[Omega.6801]

20 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Ya cuz no dps ever in the history of lfg has ever joined a group with a msg qdps alac. Everyone just waits till it says need 6dps then we all rush in. The dude joined at 1/10. Sure if dps low you gonna get kicked regardless. Some players think just because they stay alive and others get downed they automatically doing better.

I didn't say other dps players don't do that. I said they shouldn't. It's anoying and probably gave a bad first impresssion of OP, as it should, because again. A comm can ask for whatever thing they want to and they are free to kick when someone does not meet the criteria. If I open a group for raids and put "only sylvari mesmers using staff, ping exactly 37 eiterite ingots" I am free to do so and I am free to kick when someone joins on their human thief. It doesn't matter wether or not my requirements make sense or not.

[Jilora.9524]

2 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

I didn't say other dps players don't do that. I said they shouldn't. It's anoying and probably gave a bad first impresssion of OP, as it should, because again. A comm can ask for whatever thing they want to and they are free to kick when someone does not meet the criteria. If I open a group for raids and put "only sylvari mesmers using staff, ping exactly 37 eiterite ingots" I am free to do so and I am free to kick when someone joins on their human thief. It doesn't matter wether or not my requirements make sense or not.

Ya no one is debating you can't set what reqs you want. No one is debating the comm can kick whoever he wants anytime. It's the illogical point that if some lfg is needing 2 things that we all got to wait till those are filled. If I see a group asking for 2 things and there's less then 8 ppl I'll join because I know kitten right other dps will too so if I wait till there's no reqs at all I'll be out of luck. Like again he joined at 1/10 so no a dps joining at 1/10 should not give a bad impression because it happens most times I bet because there's 1000's of us vs the few desired things in reqs. Maybe the comm didn't like his class maybe if he never responded back saying I'm doing fine when the comm has the proof in front of him he never would have been booted I have no idea.

[Dibit.6259]

One of the things that stands out to me here is that the commander had to ask your role rather than you stating it when you joined. Understandable that there was only 1 person in squad at time of joining but you should still state you role. Also he did advertise for supports first so you should at least ask if it's ok to join as dps. Already this leaves an unsavoury impression of you.

Secondly the you doing less dps than supports thing. Ideally as a dps you do want to be doing more than the supports. Granted there are some supports that can do insane damage alongside grant support but being able to do your part as a dps to do enough damage so things go smoothly is expected. I don't know the set up of the squad you joined so it's hard to say if this was indeed the case but your attitude of "my dps is fine" suggests that either you don't care about your contribution or have possibly been carried through content before.

 

These points doesn't mean that the commander wasn't rude to you but I don't think you realise that your actions can be considered rude or/and griefing others.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Dibit.6259
Typos

[Blacklust.4638]

1 minute ago, Dibit.6259 said:

One of the things that stands out to my here is that the commander had to ask your role rather than you stating it when you joined. Understandable that there was only 1 person in squad at time of joining but you should still state you role. Also he did advertise for supports first so you should at least ask if it's ok to join as dps. Already this leaves an unsavoury impression of you.

Secondly the you doing less dps than supports thing. Ideally as a dps you do want to be doing more than the supports. Granted there are some supports that can do insane damage alongside grant support but being able to do your part as a dps to do enough damage so things go smoothly is expected. I don't know the set up of the squad you joined so it's hard to say if this was indeed the case but your attitude of "my dps is fine" suggests that either you don't care about your contribution or have possibly been carried through content before.

 

These points doesn't mean that the commander wasn't rude to you but I don't think you release that your actiona can be considered rude or/and griefing others.

 

1 hour ago, Omega.6801 said:

The comm may ask for whatever they please, And if they ask for "qdps, alac" it is their right to do so. Usually they do so, because dps fills fast and they want other roles set before that. So in that regard, they were right and you probably made a bad impression from the get go. Then, if your dps actually was lower than that of a support class, you didn't play your role, so I'd say they were right about kicking you from the group. It's not about "did we manage to clear the content" it's actually about principle and about "if everyone would do that", social contract kinda stuff.
Next time, if the lfg says it wants a specific role, join as that role or don't join.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

I commanded thousands of squads in every game mode and i feel that you might have been in the wrong here more than you imagine. 

 

And yes when we ask for support groups and dps joins we allow them to wait in the squad but usually i prefer that person to be grateful for that and be genuinely nice and ask nicely instead of commenting back with reasons why its like that instead.

Considering that for more than half of the support roles DPS usually does about 10 times more damage if you were lower than a support and had an ignorant attitude like not even replying i am not surprised. I would have kicked you as well and most likely 90 % of the coms would have done the same.

[Cyninja.2954]

1. It is not uncommon for commanders to want to fill the specific roles first (quickness  alac, support, mechanics). Dps are dime a dozen (and good dps are even fewer). A group filling up with only dps takes seconds. Further more it might also be a guild group where the other slots are taken.

Respect the LFG even if you might disagree with it.

2. Without actually running a dps tracker there is nearly no way for you to tell how good your damage is. Unless you have extensive experience from golem rotations and running dps trackers in the past and even then you can only assume a ballpark of where you might be at. Instead of assuming, install arcdps for a week and be sure.

Never assume numbers. There is a reason there are this amount if memes about open world content and the average player in this game.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Custodio.6134]

25 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

2. Without actually running a dps tracker there is nearly no way for you to tell how good your damage is. Unless you have extensive experience from golem rotations and running dps trackers in the past and even then you can only assume a ballpark of where you might be at. Instead of assuming, install arcdps for a week and be sure.

In theory, arcdps is not even required in order to figure out your DPS. The golem in the "Special Forces Training Area" in Lion's Arch Aerodrome also fits that purpose. It can simulate a "perfect" environment, without any obstruction from mechanics and with perfect boon- and condition-uptime. 

 So, even without arcdps, you can still figure out your own "maximum DPS-potential" (since the conditions are ideal in that scenario). 

Unless you did exactly that, or ran arcdps and checked, any claim of "i did good DPS" is invalid

so, all the issues: 

 

2 hours ago, Kovac.4372 said:

But like, I know I'm doing good, the dude is being pedantic,

no, obviously you didn´t, otherwise the commander wouldn´t have told you. 
 

2 hours ago, Kovac.4372 said:

I shouldn't say I'm dps when my dps is lower than some alac in the group. I figure the guy is looking at some of those dps tracking mods and comparing me to a probably better player.

Obviously, since the game has no built-in method of tracking DPS outside of the Special forces training area. But really, If your DPS is lower as the DPS of an offensive support, your are massively doing something wrong. There is only a handful of offensive supports that deal basically the same DPS as a full-DPS-profession, and in that case, he wouldn´t have messaged you.
 

2 hours ago, Kovac.4372 said:

I enter DS, decide to whisper back to the commander - "I'm doing fine, you've got some issues friend"

that... is just rude and insulting. No wonder he kicked you, after all of that i´m surprised that you even managed to stay that long

 

[Bandito Baba.4921]

Got a dps tracker a while back and it was surprising how much of a gap there was between the higher and lower members of an average strike group - we are not talking tens of percent but hundreds of percent in some cases. You cant say your dps is "ok" unless you have numbers and its quite possible that you could double your dps (or increase it by a factor of a few) if you looked in detail at your current dps and the potential dps of other builds.  In extreme cases they may simply not want your class as dps because the meta builds for your class are not as effective as other class/spec combinations (usually the newest additions are highest in order to encourage people to play them, for which you can blame Anet). 

Its a shame that there are not more relaxed groups as it would be more inclusive and allow more people to have fun, but, at the end of the day a lot of players want to do content quickly without issue and for that they need players of a similar ability/spec/etc to themselves. Not everyone plays the game in the same way or for the same reason and if you join a group you are agreeing to pay they way they want to play. 

I have seen worse, the best thing you can do is run your own squad and be nicer to people. At minimum dont let it get you down, the world is full of elitist people, games are no different. 

[Dante.1508]

3 hours ago, Kovac.4372 said:

Today has been a bit slow getting an IBS 5 group going. Been waiting alone advertising my group for some 5 minutes. So I take another look at the tab and notice another 1/10 group for IBS 5 + DS, decide to join them.

Group starts filling up. We're in Shiverpeaks Pass. Commander asks me for my role. I'm on my soulbeast, so I say dps. Commander gets mad at me because group advertised qdps and alac. I say I joined when it was 1/10, you don't need a whole squad full of qdps alac do you? Plus this is strikes, not raids, it's a breeze. I get berated like "if everyone thought like you blablabla". I'm like whatever, didn't reply..

Strikes go fine. My damage is good. At last one, Boneskinner, I get a whisper from commander saying I shouldn't say I'm dps when my dps is lower than some alac in the group. I figure the guy is looking at some of those dps tracking mods and comparing me to a probably better player. But like, I know I'm doing good, the dude is being pedantic, and at this point very annoying considering I've done a bazillion strike runs and never had any issues. Boneskinner goes well, no problems from me, good damage, didn't down once, helped rez downed players, Boneskinner dead fast.

I enter DS, decide to whisper back to the commander - "I'm doing fine, you've got some issues friend"

Commander kicks me out of squad.

"Case and point" I send them.

This why i don't do that content.. Also arcdps is a toxic application.. And these people wonder why this game mode is so niche..

[Maria Murtor.7253]

This is one of the reasons why I usually play a support role, mostly healer: I do not want to deal with stuff like this. And it works: I never got flamed for my lousy DPS. I keep people alive which is my role -> people are happy.

[Taclism.2406]

3 hours ago, Kovac.4372 said:

But like, I know I'm doing good

how would you know if you can't tell your own dps 👀

[Cuks.8241]

If I ask for alac, qdps I expect alac or qdps. Kick is possible depending on how annoyed I'm feeling. If someone can't read a simple LFG post its more likely he will mess up other stuff.

When private squad Twisted Marionette came out I was running it with a commander that always did a "can you read and write" check. Basically just a simple instruction where you had to read and write something or do something  accordingly (like enter instance in the right time). He kicked everyone that couldn't read the simplest instructions. 100% success guaranteed.

[Luthan.5236]

Just let the elitist children wait forever until their group is filled and play other content. Most content can be played witout having to do strikes and there are enough other options to get skins and gear. I don't even know that the "DS" means and why you'd put the number 5 in an lfg for a 10-man content. Seems pretty random that elitist abbreviations. 😄

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Ya cuz no dps ever in the history of lfg has ever joined a group with a msg qdps alac. Everyone just waits till it says need 6dps then we all rush in. The dude joined at 1/10. Sure if dps low you gonna get kicked regardless. Some players think just because they stay alive and others get downed they automatically doing better.

While I'm not a fan of those "q/a dps join first!" (if only because many times other players join as dps anyways), it really doesn't matter if I agree with that approach or not. Commander builds the squad however they want, if I disagree with how he does it, I either join another one or make mine and build it how I want.
Also considering OP's story, it might (maybe, we don't know for sure) be a slightly different thing if he joined AND said he's playing dps. Meanwhile it seems that he joined when commie was looking for support players, wrote nothing and then "woke up" when commie personally asked him what he plays once the squad was almost filled up. The actual main issue here is probably lack of communication from OP.

27 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

how would you know if you can't tell your own dps 👀

True, seems like OP is just guessing?

Edited August 26, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Just let the elitist children wait forever until their group is filled and play other content. Most content can be played witout having to do strikes and there are enough other options to get skins and gear. I don't even know that the "DS" means and why you'd put the number 5 in an lfg for a 10-man content. Seems pretty random that elitist abbreviations. 😄

The "DS" abbreviation follows most/all abbreviations present in the game. The "number 5" you're talking about is probably referring to "IBS5", which are... 5 IBS strikes. Nothing random about these, now you know 😅

[Bladestrom.6425]

14 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Just let the elitist children wait forever until their group is filled and play other content. Most content can be played witout having to do strikes and there are enough other options to get skins and gear. I don't even know that the "DS" means and why you'd put the number 5 in an lfg for a 10-man content. Seems pretty random that elitist abbreviations. 😄

+1. These people don't get the spirit of GW2, they want to 'min-max' wow-stylee.

[Luthan.5236]

Why would anyone want to do all 5 strikes? Seems a bit of a hassle to stick with annoying other players for such boring lengthy content. 😄 DS only can mean Dragon's Stand or Dragonstorm - no strike mission: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations#D

Unless it means other stuff not listed there at the wiki. (Then it must mean the player base for strikes is really pretty looooow if they are not even having one that adds their stuff to the wiki. :D)

I would first have imagined "daily strikes" for DS. But you usually write "daily", in the fractals nobody writes "df" instead I mean.

Edit: I mean: I'm not against people making their groups and having their own requirements. The base concept (philosophy) of GW2 was different though - avoding such type of content. "Everyone can do everything" professions. Then making "harder" group content that not that many players seem to play. (Switching to strikes instead of raids then.) People still making up "roles" and stuf. Totally okay - but they should be surprised if this is played less then (groups taking longer to fill up) ... when the majority of content is for another type of players - which are the main target audience of GW2. Which do not want to obey such player-made rules and restrictions.

If 9 players with max dps + 1 player with less good dps is slower than 9 with max dps + waiting like foreeeeeeever for a 10th guy with max dps (or doing it with that 9 people only) ... okay. Seems to makes sense. Question probably is how long you are willing to wait - and how long you expect (you can't be sure - only have expectations) it to take. (With a lot of people playing SotO now in the first week after release there might be less players in the other content. Noticed longer PvP queue duration as well.)

Edited August 26, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[FrizzFreston.5290]

1 minute ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

+1. These people don't get the spirit of GW2, they want to 'min-max' wow-stylee.

Not to mention most of them still don't understand that the amount of DPS doesn't say as much as they think it does.

I think it's hilarious people are trying to find out who was in the wrong and who was right and what you can't say or can say. At the end of the day they finished their encounters.

I mean, I wouldn't have said anything after the encounters were finished, why bother talking to a commander who has a bone to pick with you? 

 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

4 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

The comm may ask for whatever they please, And if they ask for "qdps, alac" it is their right to do so. Usually they do so, because dps fills fast and they want other roles set before that. So in that regard, they were right and you probably made a bad impression from the get go. Then, if your dps actually was lower than that of a support class, you didn't play your role, so I'd say they were right about kicking you from the group. It's not about "did we manage to clear the content" it's actually about principle and about "if everyone would do that", social contract kinda stuff.
Next time, if the lfg says it wants a specific role, join as that role or don't join.

No wonder people will wait for an auto-que , or bother doing anything with instance if  they have to face this mechanic :boons guys " should be invited first ".

 

Spoiler

(I am telling you old  gg , cut the effectiveness of boons + offer an official DPS addon in CM only . Then it's the afk mechanic + wait for them to agree with the que or offer pieces in the WvW . Or better yet visual (grass-trees) every 2 months in WvW

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[DragonNero.4259]

4 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

The comm may ask for whatever they please, And if they ask for "qdps, alac" it is their right to do so. Usually they do so, because dps fills fast and they want other roles set before that. So in that regard, they were right and you probably made a bad impression from the get go. Then, if your dps actually was lower than that of a support class, you didn't play your role, so I'd say they were right about kicking you from the group. It's not about "did we manage to clear the content" it's actually about principle and about "if everyone would do that", social contract kinda stuff.
Next time, if the lfg says it wants a specific role, join as that role or don't join.

I mean if we want to go off principle the commander shoulda just kicked instead of bringing up someones dps numbers as their is no world and this is inargueable where you bring up dps numbers in a pug group to some random your never going to see and you just argued with if it wasent for malicious intent which can be seen as harrasment which is aganst the TOS. big point here is both parties are in the wrong one more than the other being the commander as they shoulda just kicked instead of dragging it out and pretty much harrasing someone. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

When commanders ask for roles that are not DPS they do it because DPS fills in no time, since every wants to do DPS. I don't care if DPS joins in before what I advertise joins, I do however care if we overfill with DPS, because everyone has the "well they need DPS" mentality, because people generally don't want to leave. 

People not saying their role is annoying, I hate asking people's roles and keeping a close eye on their name to figure out the person who joined minutes ago is actually a DPS.

Pointing out that someone's DPS is below an Alac's DPS is.. I mean if the Alac is doing good damage then it's just being confrontational for really no reason in Strikes, however if the Alac's already not doing the best possible damage, which, is kinda expected, since AlacDPS is already a lot below others in general then there is a reason to point out that the DPS is not really doing DPS. Comparing your damage to a boonDPS is actually a nice way of saying that your DPS is low. 
Judging your own DPS is a good way to have a false sense of security. For example DH has big numbers on screen even if it's below 10k DPS, same goes for Reaper. If the Commander has Arc they can pretty much tell how well - or bad - you're doing.

Both of you are at fault for this "uncomfortable" experience, one person feels way too over themselves due to a tag while the other feels way too entitled under the guise of "it's just Strikes", if we'd know actual damage numbers it'd help the case, but as I said, just because you see big numbers you might not be doing too well overall.