Why PvP is so frustrating now.

[Kuma.1503]

8 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

There are plenty of tanky builds that you can play, it just takes more skill to pull it off than previous patches. You can't just sit there and expect to live because you took amulet X and traitline Y. This game has moved away from passive tankyness to active defensives. Use your cooldowns properly!

There are a few DPS outliers that need a damage output reduction, such as soulbeast, NADES, and chronomancer, but the majority of builds feel fine. Deadeye also feels pretty ridiculous as well. 

Engineer is a bad example to point at balance ATM because it kinda sucks in general. The class either lacks damage or lacks stunbreaks. Engi needs an ammo skill stunbreak! Or toolkit F skill needs to be a stunbreak. 

Even If I grant that, why would I play a tanky build that requires some amount of skill to play. 

When I can play a burst build. And Guarantee a down ~90% of the time. Granted I press my buttons in the correct order. 

"I typed Cat real good. I really earned that kill". 

In some cases while also chaining defensives so the opponent in unable to interact with me. There's a fine balance to be struck here. Surviving should take more skill/effort than picking a Mender Scourge and face tanking your way to victory. Likewise, generating kills should take more skill/effort than it currently does. 

 

Maybe my experience is an outlier here, but the instant I stopped trying to fight it and started playing one shot myself, the game became SO much easier. Even the act of surviving has become easier despite the lower health pool because if you have stealth or high mobility you can pick and choose the fights you want to take, and you can counterpressure the people gunning it to kill you.

In most games I actively avoid the people who are capable of killing me and focus the people who fail to survive my combo on repeat until we win though sheer numbers advantage or they afk in frustration. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

22 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Even If I grant that, why would I play a tanky build that requires some amount of skill to play. 

When I can play a burst build. And Guarantee a down ~90% of the time. Granted I press my buttons in the correct order. 

Because they can survive the bursty spec, then kill it? Tanky necro generates alot of its value from neutralizing burst specs in teamfights. Soulbeasts can't one shot someone who's sitting on top of a scourge, or being supported by a specter. 

As I stated in my first post, I agree that a few builds do WAY too much damage. Once they're nerfed, the meta won't feel as bursty. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:57 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

.Roaming around the map as 2+ glass canons and blowing people is a very viable tactic. 

😲

[aymnad.9023]

Damage is too high

I agree with that. Right now you can feel all specs can os with the increase of stats and easy access to crit / 10% damage bonus. Things you would survive before will now kill you, things you could tank to keep your defense for more important abilities you now have to avoid. You have to watch out for way too many things. Where I disagree is that I think that before the patch most of them were fine.

Survivability has been gutted

No more survivability please. You probably have not seen enough berserker (one of the specs not talked enough about imo), some of the newcomers like dagger mirage going perma cc or the older vindicator who all can keep damage and are survivable. With the increase of damage I find most of the builds in ranked having a “bruiser like” approach. I now find that full damage builds are struggling and  need to go even harder into os territory to have a chance. For example I was playing FA scepter before the expansion. I still found it crazy but now it feels overshadowed because other builds can afford to make more mistakes while doing high damage thanks to point 1 (damage being too high). Same for scrapper, its stealth burst is more dangerous but I now find it struggling after that.

Edited August 30, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[zyra.7860]

Main problems to damage are 1-shot soulbeast and 1-shot chronomancer. Also hammer warrior with perma stun dont help.

[Flowki.7194]

6 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Damage is too high

I agree with that. Right now you can feel all specs can os with the increase of stats and easy access to crit / 10% damage bonus. Things you would survive before will now kill you, things you could tank to keep your defense for more important abilities you now have to avoid. You have to watch out for way too many things. Where I disagree is that I think that before the patch most of them were fine.

Survivability has been gutted

No more survivability please. You probably have not seen enough berserker (one of the specs not talked enough about imo), some of the newcomers like dagger mirage going perma cc or the older vindicator who all can keep damage and are survivable. With the increase of damage I find most of the builds in ranked having a “bruiser like” approach. I now find that full damage builds are struggling and  need to go even harder into os territory to have a chance. For example I was playing FA scepter before the expansion. I still found it crazy but now it feels overshadowed because other builds can afford to make more mistakes while doing high damage thanks to point 1 (damage being too high). Same for scrapper, its stealth burst is more dangerous but I now find it struggling after that.

Well, this is suppose to be a team game (spvp at least), but many aspects work against it.

 

The high damage of a single spec allows them to stop trying to work with team, and go 1v1 all game, in a 3 point mode that can actually reward selfish playstyles (but mostly punishes the rest since the avg 1v1 player just dies on far all game). The damage should be reduced so that 1 person cannot kill another person in a 1v1 unless some serious mistakes are made. The reason for this, is to encourage team play, coordinated attacks. In such a situation, specs like SPB could have risen as a utility class, some stuns sure, but also weakness and other effects that help soften a target up for other dps. Solo que is also leading to a very casual experiance, its nice to get faster games but lets not forget that quality of games will always suffer in terms of coordination aka people on mics. That said, a mic function in solo que would help a lot.. at least give people the chance to communicate or -mute if not.

 

Tbf, not much about sPVP encourages real team play, and thats a shame. It seems that most of the playerbase left, are the people who prefere to just 1v1 or do their own thing.. this is not a pvp game that seems to have much incentive for a team player, or a support player.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Okhu.7948]

Personally, I love instantly being downed by a soulbeast hiding outside of spawn from 100% life to 0 in the blink of an eye.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 8/29/2023 at 8:58 AM, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

There are plenty of tanky builds that you can play, it just takes more skill to pull it off than previous patches. You can't just sit there and expect to live because you took amulet X and traitline Y. This game has moved away from passive tankyness to active defensives. Use your cooldowns properly!

There are a few DPS outliers that need a damage output reduction, such as soulbeast, NADES, and chronomancer, but the majority of builds feel fine. Deadeye also feels pretty ridiculous as well. 

Engineer is a bad example to point at balance ATM because it kinda sucks in general. The class either lacks damage or lacks stunbreaks. Engi needs an ammo skill stunbreak! Or toolkit F skill needs to be a stunbreak. 

I agree but this is mostly only for Plat1++, Almost everyone in this thread is below Gold3 and won't experience what you are saying. That's just the honest truth.

Anet always had an issue with easy classes like Guardian being a noob stomper class while also being a crappy class conpetitively, outside of core support. WB won't receive the buff it needs for AT competition because of this. And it really sucks.

[MilkyTea.9042]

That's cool and all but I think PvP has been on a downward spiral ever since they removed the best sPvP map ever created, Raid on the Capricorn.

Arenanet can only balance aquatic combat and not their land counterpart and as a balanced sPvP mode goes against Arenanet's design philosophy (it doesn't generate $$$ and engaging player metrics like FOTM elite specs do), they needed to get rid of the only map to have that aquatic combat. Those golden years of spvp brought happiness amongst us spvpers as we spearfished and Aquaman trident shanked the opposing team to death while Under the Sea played at 200% volume.

Now we're stuck with all these subpar maps like Shithammer and Legacy of the Hoefire. Spvps in the shitter now and no one gets to show off their aquatic weapon legendaries.  Thanks Arenanet.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Parsleysoda.9031

[Flowki.7194]

22 minutes ago, Parsleysoda.9031 said:

That's cool and all but I think PvP has been on a downward spiral ever since they removed the best sPvP map ever created, Raid on the Capricorn.

Arenanet can only balance aquatic combat and not their land counterpart and as a balanced sPvP mode goes against Arenanet's design philosophy (it doesn't generate $$$ and engaging player metrics like FOTM elite specs do), they needed to get rid of the only map to have that aquatic combat. Those golden years of spvp brought happiness amongst us spvpers as we spearfished and Aquaman trident shanked the opposing team to death while Under the Sea played at 200% volume.

Now we're stuck with all these subpar maps like Shithammer and Legacy of the Hoefire. Spvps in the shitter now and no one gets to show off their aquatic weapon legendaries.  Thanks Arenanet.

Just dodge

[kima.3045]

robot can kill you while you down the engenier

warrior bladeswornd that doesnt recive any damage

necros with 3 hp bars?

deatheye  kill in 2 shots? form super range?

do i continue?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, kima.3045 said:

warrior bladeswornd that doesnt recive any damage

This one is p annoying. idk about those other ones though. 

[Okhu.7948]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:59 PM, kima.3045 said:

robot can kill you while you down the engenier

warrior bladeswornd that doesnt recive any damage

necros with 3 hp bars?

deatheye  kill in 2 shots? form super range?

do i continue?

Down the Engineer. And then kill the robot and then finish the engineer off. And then the Engineer won't have a robot for a minute or so. Unless they signet. At which point you kill the robot again. The robot has like no life. Lol.

[magickthief.6492]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:39 AM, Curennos.9307 said:

Re: DE, as someone who has mostly mained that spec (I like my pewpew). I find it really bonkers that some specs are allowed to maintain easily accessed (either really easily, or relatively speaking) quickness while others are not. Best example of this - scrapper. Their quickness share trait was changed to give fury instead of quickness in spvp, yet harb still has quite easy quickenss share, DE still has quickness on mark, reaper still has it. Anet made a point to remove that quickness on weapon swap sigil a while back and to nuke specific sources of quickness on classes, but seems to have failed to maintain consistency across the board.

That isn't to say DE's quickness is the same as other sources, or that they're all 1-1 comparable. I still have people look me dead in the eye (heh) as I cast mark on them, gap close, and spam a burst skill. DE has, what, a 2 sec window - so it's not excessively broken, but still (and imo it has a rather large tell/distinct sound). My DE has to compete with mesmers, rangers (took 10k damage from two strike of one wolf pack the other day, ouch...), and so on - and it feels like I have to run crit strikes, zerk, etc to gain equivalent burst to my competitors who has more health and defenses anyway. I wonder how many DEs *aren't* running the quickness GM trait at this point, and how much harder is it to secure kills/contribute without it. I've tried M7 in the past, and while it is lovely for sustained damage, it doesn't really give DE the durability it needs to fully capitalize off it, imo. You're still a squishy thief and a few secosnd of prot isn't going to change that. Anyway I forget where I was going with this.

Edit: Wait I remembered. Yeah, DE has some issues. I'd like to see skrim shot damage nerfed, but three round burst buffed (consensus has been for quite a while that rifle 2 spam is superior in every way despite 3 being the dedicated 'damage' skill) and two round burst (is that even it's name? I don't know, never used it) changed to utility instead of an even worse version of TRB. A conal mid-range AoE would be super cool. Then decrease ranger longbow and kneeling rifle range to 1200 or something. 1500 is bonkers.

I don't want DE overall damage touched much - especially since judgement damage seems to be much lower lately. I think once we get out of this uber glass cannon burst meta and folks run a bit more durability, DE will be less of an issue since its burst (and its success or lack thereeof) is very dependent on the opponent's setup. Right now, I can get kills because everyone is bursty but also rather squishy - a little bit more tankiness and I think the issue will be diminished. Imo, at least. Could be wrong. But I'd like DE, particularly rifle, to be more fun to play against, cause rn it's just like ranger longbow.

lets be honest. you said you are a DE main, yet don't even know the name of skills. odd thing is, i remember you playing lots of Mes. this is how the game is balanced, by fake mains.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 8/30/2023 at 2:55 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

I agree but this is mostly only for Plat1++, Almost everyone in this thread is below Gold3 and won't experience what you are saying. That's just the honest truth.

Anet always had an issue with easy classes like Guardian being a noob stomper class while also being a crappy class conpetitively, outside of core support. WB won't receive the buff it needs for AT competition because of this. And it really sucks.

i think you might want to take another look at the leaderboards; the entire platinum tier barely exists now. poor matchmaking, dual queue and so on have forced the majority of the remaining population down into gold the last few seasons and it continues to deteriorate.

Edited September 3, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Dreams.3128]

They killed healer as soon as they removed all the good healer amulets. Thank the people here that just can't seem to stand the fact that there were actual good support mains to do their job and not allowing them to one shot the team into oblivion. 

[Curennos.9307]

15 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

lets be honest. you said you are a DE main, yet don't even know the name of skills. odd thing is, i remember you playing lots of Mes. this is how the game is balanced, by fake mains.

Sorry, can't take you seriously unless you fill out this 100 question test on the state and name of different skills throughout the life of the game and write me a 3 page essay on the implementation of stealth in different games, including the pros/cons of each implementation. Send it to me in game with a processing fee of 100g, thanks. Edit: Also name every anime ever.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Curennos.9307

[Barabbas.8715]

Why is PVP frustrating? Geeeeee, I don't know. Maybe because there are blokes that will call out a point like home, then not back you up when you go to it. Or the morans that don't know that you have to hit an enemy while downed to get back up when an enemy dies? There should be an IQ test to play PVP in this game. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[Shagie.7612]

20 minutes ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

There should be an IQ test to play PVP in this game.

20 minutes ago, Barabbas.8715 said:

the morans

this is bait right

[Kuma.1503]

"The Morans" sounds like a 90's sitcom tbh. 

[Bast.7253]

5 man Team "enter country here" groups spamming unranked matches is another issue.

As is throwing matches for cartel friends on the other team just for funsies. Had a few of those today too. 

[JTGuevara.9018]

(sigh)....

Why do people even play this game? Action combat, tank-and-spank, spam-all-the-things with no dedicated roles has aged poorly over the years. What is even the point?

22 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i think you might want to take another look at the leaderboards; the entire platinum tier barely exists now. poor matchmaking, dual queue and so on have forced the majority of the remaining population down into gold the last few seasons and it continues to deteriorate.

Well, that's just delicious! I made a joke about that a year ago! And now it's come true lmao!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119362-has-pvp-gotten-harder-over-the-years-higher-skill-caps/?do=findComment&comment=1728579

 

[Okhu.7948]

15 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

(sigh)....

Why do people even play this game? Action combat, tank-and-spank, spam-all-the-things with no dedicated roles has aged poorly over the years. What is even the point?

 

 

Because I like playing it. Why are you on the forums overdosing on black pills? What is even the point?

[Burnfall.9573]

speaking of new Profession players..one has already figured it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymQKz-0R8SI

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Bast.7253]

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

speaking of new Profession players..one has already figured it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymQKz-0R8SI

 

Am I missing something? All I'm seeing is a video of carefully edited free-casting deadeye clips doing very little damage. (Oh, there's an 11k finally).

Edited September 4, 2023 by Bast.7253