Wizard's Vault account limits highly incentivize multiboxing

[Nightcore.5621]

19 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

More nonsense, oh boy
You would have to play your second account and do the dailies and weeklies to earn enough currency to buy them, no? 
 

I did this on 5 accounts already all the gold made for almost nothing is beyond broken. 1 day farm and u make more than u will do in 30 days playing each day. So yeah is broken for sure 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Nightcore.5621

[alteriel valie.4751]

This is the first time for vault, they will check their data(i believe) and take some decisions for later!
I believe they will nerf some of the rewards, either they will increase the price or the amount of the items you can get and maybe remove some items for 2-3 months!

Edited September 2, 2023 by alteriel valie.4751

[ShadowCatz.8437]

19 minutes ago, Nightcore.5621 said:

I did this on 5 accounts already all the gold made for almost nothing is beyond broken. 1 day farm and u make more than u will do in 30 days playing each day. So yeah is broken for sure 

I suppose you only funnel all that Gold and Mats from all four account to one main account, other wise it would not make sense. If you play on all 5 account as in working to have Legendary armour and weapons, fully upgraded accounts to store item and so on, on all five account, you will probably not have that much advantage of this system as you make it out to be.

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I think it's permitted to log into accounts automatically (if you have a launcher for each one with the username and password saved all you need to do is have Windows launch them automatically) but from the moment it gets into the character select screen you need to be operating it yourself, and only 1 account at a time (software to copy manually input commands to multiple accounts so they all move together is also banned).

Yes. You can operate several accounts at the same time (i.e. in different windows) but Anet made it very clear that the rule is "one keyboard press or mouse click goes only to one account". So it is allowed if you activate/focus window 1 (with an account), press some buttons, activate/focus window 2, (with another account), press some buttons, and so no.

But pressing a button that is send to several accounts or to activate some "auto-follow script" (you control one account and all others follow this account automatically and do the same), that's how multiboxing in other games work, is strictly forbidden in GW2.

 

[Nightcore.5621]

17 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

I suppose you only funnel all that Gold and Mats from all four account to one main account, other wise it would not make sense. If you play on all 5 account as in working to have Legendary armour and weapons, fully upgraded accounts to store item and so on, on all five account, you will probably not have that much advantage of this system as you make it out to be.

I have unlocked all legendaries already thanks to the old daily login makein 1000s gold for just log into the game each day doin nothing. But yeah i transfer all the gold to main

[ShadowCatz.8437]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It's important to remember that actual multiboxing like you're describing - using scripts to not only log into but automatically play several accounts - is (and always has been) against the rules. I'm not sure how Anet monitors it but if anyone gets caught doing it they could get all their accounts banned.

I think it's permitted to log into accounts automatically (if you have a launcher for each one with the username and password saved all you need to do is have Windows launch them automatically) but from the moment it gets into the character select screen you need to be operating it yourself, and only 1 account at a time (software to copy manually input commands to multiple accounts so they all move together is also banned).

It still happens of course, because making a rule against something doesn't make it impossible, but Anet do ban people for it, especially if they're stupid enough to talk publicly about how they do it.

So anyone who is openly claiming they're doing dailies on 100+ accounts does mean doing them manually each time, and yes that would take a lot of time (if we assume a conservative estimate of 5 minutes per account - which is probably low - that would be over 8 hours) which makes it seem unlikely. But this system has only been in place for 11 days so it wouldn't surprise me if some people who had dozens of accounts to farm login rewards are trying out what they can do to keep farming with them and what the profit vs. time is. The question is whether they'll keep it up or conclude it's not actually worth it.

Thanks, @Danikat.8537 it is that claim that there are some people that have more then 100 accounts that was a bit sceptical about as it seem to not fit into what I experience with my two accounts.

First you will need to have hardware that can handle that kind of load on CPU and GPU. Second to get Astral Acclaim you would still need to click on screen to claim reward and also to do task to get AA which in my opinion still do take some time depend on what today's task for Daily and for Weekly.

With 100 accounts you also will have to account for each time there is an update (new patch) that client need to download, and update DAT file for your log in email and password, which still can be messed up with that large number of accounts that now need to be kept in place.

Most GW2 players will have reasonable amount of accounts they handle on daily basis as too many accounts would also mean that they trigger Arena Net security as they all have to be going through the same IP addresses (if they don't spoof or hide it through some kind of VPN magic). Connecting to Internet through ISP isn't free as far as I know for most people, so there is also that and getting public static IP is something most ISP charge extra for, if those 100+ accounts are to be connecting as unique IP with each their own IP.

So just from this I would expect that this isn't the average user that have bought or got their hands on "free" accounts (promo accounts which is "paid account" given away from Amazon in some package sale or something like that), but that would demand special knowledge to handle this large amount of accounts and not get into trouble on several layers (manually keeping track of each account would not be practically impossible at that point).

Not to forget that even log in to character screen and from there into character is not something GW2Launcher or any other app that can handle multiple accounts for GW2 will do just to keep it on the safe line to not break TOS.  

A family can have a certain number of accounts connecting from the same IP (that is why we use router - to be able to connect different IP [devices] to one central IP that is one ISP), so there is probably some room until it gets noticed as suspicious activity from Arena Net when log in server can see more connection then what would be for a normal house keep (let say up 10 person in case they have a very large family with grandparents and cousins living in the same house and all playing GW2) before it would trigger some question about IP addresses.

What I tried to point out where that it sounds very unlikely that farming through having a large scale operation with 100 accounts on one computer and with only one ISP is not cheap as you need to have infrastructure to handle that amount, you would have to have special knowledge to set it up, you would also have to spend a lot of time make it work (like you said 5 min for each accounts adds up very fast) and in the end to what purpose as it still bound to in game currency, items on your account etc  (as in is this to sell "pre-made accounts" for those who are willing to pay with real money - only for bragging rights)?

[ShadowCatz.8437]

18 hours ago, illuminati.8453 said:

So, you are saying they should not take your money?  This is *exactly* what they want the army of alt accounts to do.   They want each one of those to buy SoTo.   That army, by the way, also didn't really have issues with building legendaries so I'm not sure they really care if a few extra thousand legendaries hit the TP.   In their mind, they have lowered the prices for people to buy legendaries from the TP if they choose or if a player doesn't want to do that they have given them the same opportunity at a low cost crafted legendary as well.  

Win/Win in Anet's mind.

Why would Arena Net even put their mind on it the way you put it?

They offer Legendary as a base (Starter Chest) for crafting your first Legendary and that way also introduce both new player and long time player that might not even have started on any Legendary collection or plan on using a Legendary in the future to get a taste of what a Legendary is instead of crafting Ascended weapons or armour.

You seem also to forget that in that Vault you have now Build Template (limited to only 2 in WV), so this is to encourage players that have their first Legendary to start to look in Gem Store on how to use the built in Template system on what items that they can buy there with Gems to upgrade their account for using templates and Legendary.

Legendary weapons and Legendary Armour are rather "useless" compared to Ascended as they have the same attributes, but with the only difference being that you can now change attributes without any cost as long you are out of combat and with only a keybind if you set it up in Options>Controls. That is something that change how you can adopt you character as needed as crafting Ascended gear is still limited by time gated items and not that cheap if you play on several characters.

[Danikat.8537]

51 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Thanks, @Danikat.8537 it is that claim that there are some people that have more then 100 accounts that was a bit sceptical about as it seem to not fit into what I experience with my two accounts.

First you will need to have hardware that can handle that kind of load on CPU and GPU. Second to get Astral Acclaim you would still need to click on screen to claim reward and also to do task to get AA which in my opinion still do take some time depend on what today's task for Daily and for Weekly.

With 100 accounts you also will have to account for each time there is an update (new patch) that client need to download, and update DAT file for your log in email and password, which still can be messed up with that large number of accounts that now need to be kept in place.

Most GW2 players will have reasonable amount of accounts they handle on daily basis as too many accounts would also mean that they trigger Arena Net security as they all have to be going through the same IP addresses (if they don't spoof or hide it through some kind of VPN magic). Connecting to Internet through ISP isn't free as far as I know for most people, so there is also that and getting public static IP is something most ISP charge extra for, if those 100+ accounts are to be connecting as unique IP with each their own IP.

So just from this I would expect that this isn't the average user that have bought or got their hands on "free" accounts (promo accounts which is "paid account" given away from Amazon in some package sale or something like that), but that would demand special knowledge to handle this large amount of accounts and not get into trouble on several layers (manually keeping track of each account would not be practically impossible at that point).

Not to forget that even log in to character screen and from there into character is not something GW2Launcher or any other app that can handle multiple accounts for GW2 will do just to keep it on the safe line to not break TOS.  

A family can have a certain number of accounts connecting from the same IP (that is why we use router - to be able to connect different IP [devices] to one central IP that is one ISP), so there is probably some room until it gets noticed as suspicious activity from Arena Net when log in server can see more connection then what would be for a normal house keep (let say up 10 person in case they have a very large family with grandparents and cousins living in the same house and all playing GW2) before it would trigger some question about IP addresses.

What I tried to point out where that it sounds very unlikely that farming through having a large scale operation with 100 accounts on one computer and with only one ISP is not cheap as you need to have infrastructure to handle that amount, you would have to have special knowledge to set it up, you would also have to spend a lot of time make it work (like you said 5 min for each accounts adds up very fast) and in the end to what purpose as it still bound to in game currency, items on your account etc  (as in is this to sell "pre-made accounts" for those who are willing to pay with real money - only for bragging rights)?

A few things here:

The claims that some players have over 100 accounts pre-dates the Wizard's Vault. Even then I don't think many people have that many. One Youtuber did a video saying they had 100 accounts and showing how they collected login rewards, but I suspect even most people who farmed them had less than that. But I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that anyone bought 100+ accounts in the last 2 weeks for the Wizard's Vault. It's more that some players assume one of the reasons for this system is to discourage login reward farming, so it's a question of how those people who already had a lot of accounts will use them. (And no it's definitely not about the 'average user' but the small number of dedicated login reward farmers who have been annoying some people on the forum for years.)

Secondly unless you're planning on multiboxing there's no need to use a VPN or otherwise ensure they're all on different IP addresses because Anet has always allowed played to have multiple accounts, even to log into them at the same time. The only thing you can't do is automate playing multiple accounts together.

And again because they were using them to farm login rewards - not dailies - the people who had loads of accounts didn't need to be able to log into them all at the same time. They'd log into one, collect the reward, log out, log into the next one, collect the reward, log out and so on. Yes that would take longer than automatically logging into all of them at once, but it also gets around all the problems you raised.

They could do the same thing now to do dailies - log into one account, do dailies, log out, log into the second account, do dailies, log out etc. etc. It wouldn't require any kind of special setup, only enough time to cycle through all of them. The question is whether the rewards justify spending the time required to do that. The OP seems to think it does, but other people are not convinced.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

I had a big laugh about people abusing the multi boxing thing as opposed to the old system of only needing to log in.  They might be willing to spend 5 minutes per account to get rewards for a while but sooner or later that’s going to get old. Most are going to go back to logging in only to get their 5 AA. It’s going to quickly become too tedious for most people to do multiple dailies/weeklies on multiple accounts. That time adds up and for most people there’s better things to do with their time than spend 1-2 hours a day grinding dailies/weeklies. 

[kharmin.7683]

Have we seen any significant shift in the in-game economy?  If not, then I don't see the problem here.

[Danikat.8537]

24 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Have we seen any significant shift in the in-game economy?  If not, then I don't see the problem here.

The legendaries available in the starter kit have all dropped in price by about 300-400g since SotO was released, and Mystic Coins are down to about 1.2g from 1.4g before SotO (which isn't a big change on an individual coin, but if you're buying, or selling, a lot it adds up).

On the other hand many of the materials in the Large Craft Bag (the one heroic accounts can buy) have gone up in price, but those have a lot of sources and prices for crafting materials always fluctuate when an expansion comes out because there's always some new use for them, plus returning players either selling ones they had stored to get gold or buying them up because they want to make stuff.

It's harder to check the impact on things which can be traded directly like laurels (which mainly get converted into materials to sell) and obsidian, or gold bought directly with AA. It's also hard to say how much of the change in price for legendaries and mystic coins is people using the Wizard's Vault to farm them and flood the market, or people cancelling buy-orders because they can get their own and sell orders are adjusting to match the shift in buying price, or if it's people who had them stockpiled before the update selling them on the assumption the price will drop even further.

We saw that last one with HoT - the price of precursors started dropping when the collections were announced - before it was possible for anyone to actually make them that way. Which means the drop must have come from some combination of people who had buy orders in cancelling them to wait for the collections and people who had stockpiled precursors selling them in anticipation of lower demand, it can't have come from new ones entering the game because it wasn't possible at the time.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

4 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

 

 

(with the 100+ accounts) I was talking about PRE-WIZARD'S VAULT. BACK WHEN YOU COULD JUST LOGIN, CLICK BUTTON, RECEIVE BACON, PROFIT. It doesn't take scripts or a super computer or even godtier internet to log in clients in batches, manually click your chars on the char screens, load into the game, right click the login box on each client, log out, and load up the next batch of accounts. @_@ Literally, 4 total accounts at the same time for myself pre-Vault took less time to take care of than it would for me to walk from one end of my apartment to the other...without using scripts. Collecting daily rewards pre-Vault was EASY and extremely rewarding for the time it took.

The Wizard's Vault is great in that it MAKES THAT NOT AS VIABLE. You can no longer profit like that across DOZENS of accounts for 5 total minutes of effort. Not only do you now have to go through multiple menus (which is honestly AWFUL UI/UX), you only get 5AA per day if all you do is login. You actually have to go do something else on the account to even come near the value of the account pre-Wizard's Vault; if you do multiboxing and use scripts to autofollow the main account + pressing a button gets all the clients to use a button, then you risk getting banned because that is against the rules. Additionally, even if one is playing multiple accounts now (one at a time or "multiboxing" manually), you exhaust the big gold value items within ~2 or so weeks, and then you have to decide whether continuing to put the effort in on the alt accounts is worth it or not since you'd be making less per day for the time you spend on the alt account.

Obviously not everyone who has multiple accounts has 100+ multiple accounts. There are people who do, though, and the smarter ones among them don't say anything about it. Most people I know who have multiple accounts cap out at 5, maybe 10, additional accounts, though some of the more hardcore people have 20+ accounts. I have 3 alt accounts (1 w/PoFHoT, 1 w/PoFHoTEoD, 1 heroic from Prime Gaming), and my computer + internet have no issues running them at the same time (<$2000USD computer + gigabit internet). Anet doesn't get fussy about logins from same IP until ~50(?) different accounts are involved, and then there are ways around that.

Obviously, if you have a toaster for a computer and 56k dialup internet, you're not going to be as fast/viable as you are compared to people with OC'd i9s, 256 GB DDR5 RAM, ultra super highend M2 NVME drives, RTX4090, excellent networking hardware on gigabit internet, etc.

People have their own weird reasons for playing this game the way they do. Some people love collecting unholy amounts of materials/gold/etc for reasons of their own, whether for clout or to fund fashion or whatever they want. Some people really enjoy playing Wall Street with the market, and that's, like, literally all they do in the game. Some people here are choosing to play on multiple accounts because "value" rather than have fun on their main accounts instead. People are weird.

Short summary: Logging in on multiple accounts pre-Vault days was one of the best and easiest ways to farm gold. Now you have to actually play on the accounts to even come near that value, and now you have to weigh if the cost of your time is worth it.

[DeanBB.4268]

10 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

-snip-

Legendary weapons and Legendary Armour are rather "useless" compared to Ascended as they have the same attributes,-snip-

Yes, some of your points are valid, but not entirely. I pretty much never need to buy or craft a weapon, rune or sigil now, the exception being some dual-weapon setups (axe + axe). I can transmute almost all weapons for free. I only need to store those few ascended weapons that I might someday use, again a 2nd axe or dagger. That makes my collection of legendary weapons highly useful, aside from the stat selection and rune swapping.

[WaifuJanna.9108]

Multiboxing? In an Horizontal Progression Game like GW2??? Oh lord. what have gaming nowdays become lol.

[Shaban.7192]

This could all be resolved by making all rewards account bound.

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

Multiboxing? In an Horizontal Progression Game like GW2??? Oh lord. what have gaming nowdays become lol.

 

[Lucy.3728]

On 9/1/2023 at 12:41 PM, Nightcore.5621 said:

I did this on 5 accounts already all the gold made for almost nothing is beyond broken. 1 day farm and u make more than u will do in 30 days playing each day.

I did this on 3 accounts and don't share your enthusiasms. The cheap gold bags and the mystic bags were easy to get but what else is interesting in that setting? And now I have to wait months for it to reset?

And my main acc def. does more gold in that time.

[Danikat.8537]

I've kept on logging into my second account for the AA, but I'm only doing very quick dailies and weeklies like salvaging items or doing the daily activity and only on the one account so it's not taking a lot of time and it's highly unlikely I'll have excess AA to use up once the easy gold items are gone. It also helps that I didn't get the account for login rewards and it's not the only thing I use it for so it's not going to be a waste if the AA isn't worth it.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

4 hours ago, Shaban.7192 said:

This could all be resolved by making all rewards account bound.

You know that "account bound" would mean no trading at all would be possible in that case? For items that are account bound like those crafting chest you can buy in WV it would also mean that all material that you get in those contains also would have be account bound if that is to prevent any transfers across different accounts. I don't think you understand what you are asking for here.

You suggestion is not realistic as that would have a very large impact on how this game have been developed and for most players independent if they are playing only on a single account or have several other accounts this would have  major impact on how to play this game.

Look at how items where for several years ago bound when you open a chest, this changed to be something you need to activate (decide if you want to make soul bound or sell/trade by not making use of it).

[Doggie.3184]

I've noticed more people multi-box botting since the update so looks like they're finally playing their alt accounts.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

You make several mistakes here.

1. The accounts need to have at least SotO, so that is the cheapest option. If you own everything except SotO: No legendary starter kit for you.
2. You talk about multiboxing, but later talk about playing each account seperately for 1 hour instead of 5 hours on main account. That is NOT multiboxing.
3. Multiboxing is - within strickt rules - ALLOWED in this game. 
4. Most weeklies are Multibox UNFRIENDLY. You are better off to do them seperately on each account rather than doing on multiple accounts simultaniously.

I do multibox (WITHIN GUIDELINES!) and I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE that I do weeklies SEPERATELY, not while multiboxing.

READ the policies before you start yapping: https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013658134-Policy-Dual-or-Multi-Boxing

And read them carefully, you will see that the old system was much more multibox friendly. SPECIALLY to those with dozens of accounts.

Old situation you only had to log in, get your reward and log out for passive income. So having say 20 accounts on extremely low settings was enough. That way you could log in a lot of accounts at the same time. 

I find it weird, that so many think that this change is better for multiboxing. Active is better than passive? That won't fly with me. 

As for the legendary kits: Yes I can get those on 4 accounts... And I did! and here we go:

EACH account still needs a gift of exploration - hard to do that on 2 account the same time due to variety of content. Yeah sure few hearts are kill enemies, where you can grab a turtle and get a 2nd account as gunner. But it sure is not practical. 

EACH account still needs Gift of Battle... Multiboxing in Competitive (WvW, PvP, even activities and the WvW overflow map Edge of the Mists) is STRICKTLY forbidden. 

One last thing to OP.

Who are you to say how many accounts I play? ArenaNet allows multiple accounts. 
Who are you to say I should play 1 main account and not multiple?
Who are you to dictate how I spend my free time?
I payed for all accounts!
They are all 4 FULL accounts with ALL content unlocked... For that reason alone, I stick within Guidelines! 
I ALONE decide which account I play and when.

Even if they forbid multiboxing, I will NOT stop playing all 4 accounts. 
The sheer arrogance that you think you should dictate that I should play only 1 is staggering.

 

[Neferpitouh.4356]

OP you are 100% right.

Vault daily/weekly farming on alt accounts are beyond broken. It is simply unacceptable. You make 20x more gold on alt accounts than you would've made on a single main. It benches around 400g/h if you are efficient. 

People who are arguing with you are the same people who are abusing it. These very same people do it on every topic whenever alt accounts are mentioned.  They are very very desperate to not get it nerfed. 

anet you are slowly killing your own game. Stop ruining it. There is no justification of 20x income on free heroic alt accounts. 

Restrict stocked MC, gold bag and laurels behind expansion purchases asap. If people want to farm gold on alt accounts, make them at least pay 30$ for expansions. Don' t let them do it with 2$ keys they bought on g2a.

Inflatated player numbers won't help you if your dedicated players keep talking about how unfair the game is. Good luck having new players in that case.

[Sweetbread.3678]

Outside of straight up banning multiboxing, there's nothing Anet can really do to stop dumb, myopic psychopaths from optimizing the joy out of every single thing in their life. This is a personality defect not a game design one.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

On 8/31/2023 at 5:26 PM, gkoogz.3089 said:

So they got rid of daily log in but made it even worse -- if you open a second account, you can easily get extra cheap Legendary Starter Kits,  cheap 90 bags of coins, cheap 60  mystic coins, cheap heavy crafting bags.

These rewards are once-per-account so dedicated players get screwed while it's a bonanza for multiboxers.

What a nightmare of a patch.

 

Guildwars 2 is now even more rewarding for no life playing. The only option to get rich in this game (for the onces with trash rng) is playing no life grind meta’s with low silver drops (cant call this rewards) had a guildy that played with 3 accounts on a pc and 2 laptops or something, yes he was rich but did metas all day long with 3 accounts. Imo thats not relax what gaming should be. Now guildwars 2 is even more no life because the easy alt account gold income is gone. Means more ppl will spend cash on gems because they are used to swim in gold. But alt accounts got useless (ruined investment from real cash) they had many alt accounts so they didn’t have to play (no lifing) for gold. But now they have to. 
 

i think thats why there are also so many semi afk players for gold. Because playing an actual meta has the same reward. Reward/effort ratio is better when afk. Do nothing gets you the same reward as work you 455 off. Except when looting something worth gold. But thats a mythe. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490

[Danikat.8537]

Since this debate is starting up all over again I'm going to bring back my question, which I don't think was ever actually answered:

Is the current system worse than the previous one where you could get many of the same rewards just for logging in and didn't need to play your alt accounts at all?