Builds/specs with plainly unfun mechanics

[bethekey.8314]

What builds/specs have the most unfun design to play against / play as?

IMO, this isn't the same as what's OP. Untamed is OP, but I don't see it have glaringly toxic mechanics. On the other hand, Mechanist is inherently PvE garbage in PvP and goes even further to self-punish with Mechanical Genius.

My list:

- Mechanist, with PvE design and self-punish mechanic

- Berserker, with stupid relic synergy and too many immunities/stunbreaks, some projectile immunity

- Bladesworn, with a PvE design that oscillates between broken and useless, literal projectile immunity

- Virtuoso, block spam lol

- Deadeye, stealth spam and relic synergy

- Dragonhunter, for many classes the whole fight revolves around the spear, landing one skill shouldn't be so deciding for both players

- Vindicator, I think it can dodge 5+ times in a row, the class wasn't designed for 2 dodges

The more of these current builds/specs I see in a match, the less fun it is. Certainly there are changes that can improve fun without necessarily nerfing?

For DH as an example, changing the spear to a ground targeted grappling hook of sorts, allowing disengage / engage, and speeding up how fast traps are laid? That way, either player isn't screwed if they get hit or miss, it adds skill, and improves flow by reducing casts.

Edited September 17, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[ArthurDent.9538]

-Core engi, surprise shot procs static discharge, aim assisted rocket, and explosive entrance for instant 6k+ burst even while stunned. Slick shoes instant unblockable unevadeable knockdown

[bethekey.8314]

5 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

-Core engi, surprise shot procs static discharge, aim assisted rocket, and explosive entrance for instant 6k+ burst even while stunned. Slick shoes instant unblockable unevadeable knockdown

That certainly is a list of abilities, and I'm surprised someone struggles against Core Engi so much!

I'll offer some advice since you're clearly a new player. On Revenant, use your desync'd, no-LoS-required teleport to unblockable-quickness burst the Core Engi down in 1 second before he can react. As for slick shoes, just don't move for its duration or stand on top of the Engi and it does nothing 🙂 

Edited September 17, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[aymnad.9023]

13 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

- Spellbreaker, with a PvE design that oscillates between broken and useless, literal projectile immunity

While I have said that Spellbreaker Full counter is unfun and overloaded since PoF I think you meant Bladesworn which yes deserves its place on this list.

I have no idea what you wanted to say with mechanist but my list would be really close. 

I probably would remove deadeye from the list. I think it could be solved if the rifle did not allow a spam that can deal 80% of someone hp so fast. I have a list of weapon skills that should have smaller values and / or better visual tell but this would be a different thread. I find daredevil more annoying / dangerous with the approach “big hits, hide, repeat until you get a kill”.

I would have added virtuoso because it also shares with Bladesworn lots of defense + unblockables without much investments. edit : just noticed you had it on your list.

edit 2 :  Dd with its dodge + attack spam builds are never fun, neither are stunlock + good damage builds like dagger + sword mirage.

I am still not sure if cata hammer is fine or horrible as you cannot really survive on a node when there is one + they have enough sustain vs range specs. Finally there is chrono where... I still cannot say if the design, the numbers or both (most likely) are the issue.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Shagie.7612]

i don't get to play the game very much when there's a tempest in the match, cata to a lesser extent these days. not allowed to hit bladesworn either cause shield master is silly, but at least they don't give everyone reflect and i can just go elsewhere.
i think the projectile/projectile hate minigame's swung too far back in the other direction
even worse if you're condi projectiles

not a fan of glass cannon vs glass cannon match ups having certain ones who can try and one shot you but can't be as easily counterpressured if/when they whiff it
that's mostly chrono at this point, but it's applied to others at times too

the obviously overtuned numbers on things like zerk are whatever, they'll change eventually, but as someone who played czerk almost exclusively from the 2020 patch until the rework, i don't like that their solution to making it better was to slap on a bunch of sustain and damage ignoring procs to turn it into another sidenoder

buff me pls i want to citadel bombardment someone for their entire hp bar

[Dadnir.5038]

Anything with absurd amount of hard CC and/or imobilize is unfun to play against.

Builds/specs relying heavily on stealth are also a chore to fight against.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

10 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Untamed is OP, but I don't see it have glaringly toxic mechanics.

Untamed pet is toxic af. Teleport, rip boons, big green bubble in your face, chain cc with the ranger, constantly attacks you while the ranger runs away and kites at 1500 range.

[vilesoldier.9826]

pee/pee bound daredevil will have you looking to a higher power for salvation

[bethekey.8314]

9 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I think you meant Bladesworn which yes deserves its place on this list.

Oops yeah my bad, meant Bladesworn haha.

9 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I have no idea what you wanted to say with mechanist but my list would be really close. 

It's nice to hear there's good overlap. For Mechanist, AI-based classes are notoriously awful in PvP but work ok in PvE where you're facing other AI. They further added https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mechanical_Genius that severely punishes you from being away from your Mech. Being able to do 2 things in separate locations is the whole advantage of pet classes (otherwise why involve the clunky mechanic). It's not fun to play, it's not good, and if you manage to die it feels bad. Unfun overall.

5 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Untamed pet is toxic af. Teleport, rip boons, big green bubble in your face, chain cc with the ranger, constantly attacks you while the ranger runs away and kites at 1500 range.

It's very strong. Individually those abilities seem ok, but in one package it is a lot.

[GewRoo.4172]

- any build that contributes to the visual cluster fkkk I experience in every match since PoF release

- any build that is almost exclusively carried by passives 

- Support Tempests bc of traits like Powerful Aura and Elemental Bastion 

- Core Nectards with two health bars and a full stack of Death's Carapace 

- never forget old PoF Mirage 

[Vancho.8750]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:08 AM, bethekey.8314 said:

That certainly is a list of abilities, and I'm surprised someone struggles against Core Engi so much!

I'll offer some advice since you're clearly a new player. On Revenant, use your desync'd, no-LoS-required teleport to unblockable-quickness burst the Core Engi down in 1 second before he can react. As for slick shoes, just don't move for its duration or stand on top of the Engi and it does nothing 🙂 

I think it's more of the proc bulshit from core that you can exploit on the elite specs, they really resemble condition builds where you get hit by random weak looking attack but get 5 conditions. The other thing is that other professions had similar procs but they got nefed to oblivion(200 damage can't crit stuff) or removed while engi kept them.  I think it would be actually better if the procs didn't exist and the skills on the bar were buffed. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:53 AM, GeneralBM.5781 said:

pee/pee bound daredevil will have you looking to a higher power for salvation

*Distant cackling* 

Plainly unfun? only Bladesworn, but that's largely because it's the current occupant of "I have built to be literally immortal, now fight me! Itll be fun!" Mayyybe virtuoso too. Mayyybe condi zerk. The closer you get to roleplaying as a wall the less I like fighting you.

Anything that bleeds is p fun though, even things with cheese setups. 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

SA deadeye, laserbeam thief. 

[bethekey.8314]

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I think it's more of the proc bulshit from core that you can exploit on the elite specs, they really resemble condition builds where you get hit by random weak looking attack but get 5 conditions. The other thing is that other professions had similar procs but they got nefed to oblivion(200 damage can't crit stuff) or removed while engi kept them.  I think it would be actually better if the procs didn't exist and the skills on the bar were buffed. 

So we've got the power Core Engi issue and now the condi Core Eng issue? I didn't realize it people found it that annoying.

I have no idea what you're talking about though. The 1 burn on a 10 sec cd? The 1 vuln on explosion? The 1 bleed on 1/3rd of crits?

If these are issues, then certainly Berserker is 10x the issue. Other comparable Warrior procs/passive condis:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sundering_Burst

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodlust

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cull_the_Weak

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crack_Shot

Edited September 19, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Khalisto.5780]

first thing that comes to mind is stealth spam

pulsing ccs is also something i think shouldnt exist in the game, necro fear ring, dh trap, sanctuary etc

things uninteractive like pre nerf virtuoso are also kitten

there are prolly more stuff i forgot cuz nobody is playing

Edited September 19, 2023 by Khalisto.5780

[Flowki.7194]

Oh easy haha

 

Necro general issues: High levels of forgiving sustain and moderate to high dmg for only moderate effort. Necros also have access to the most obnoxious pulls and long lasting large aoe CCs. Has to be the most casual dps? but they are like part of the furniture, every match has at least 2. The general aoe spam in group fights is also annoying,  either burns your dodges or its free dmg/sustain for the necro, jut for clicking on the floor.

 

Core gaurd and gaurd in general, particularly willbender: So much face tank ability, and so many blocks that make them difficult to CC in defence, while they put in minimal effort to achieve that status. At least cata had to combo to reach that.

 

Mesmer target drops, clone spam, and the general noise/visual spam.

 

Thief mobility/target drops on any of its specs.

 

Warrior is like thief, all of it is annoying to fight. Blade too much sustain/dmg for little effort. SPB too many stuns that are not fun to fight, zerker with condi spam+ high mobility, which makes it feel like you are fighting a DD thief in plate armor -stealth.

 

Ranger builds that focus on immob spam

Condi mechs, simply becuase its afk dmg

DH/ranger traps on points, long lasting area denial/dmg for 0 effort.

 

Any spec that can pump out more condi than can realistically be removed.

 

Any spec that has an active that lets them take no damage, while still being able to attack back. Warrior, mesmer, some rangers, etc. Im suprised more is not made of this, becuase immunes was a frequent complaint about cata, which could not attack back while doing so (just pointing that out for the inconsistancy of peoples complaints).

Edited September 19, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

So we've got the power Core Engi issue and now the condi Core Eng issue? I didn't realize it people found it that annoying.

I have no idea what you're talking about though. The 1 burn on a 10 sec cd? The 1 vuln on explosion? The 1 bleed on 1/3rd of crits?

If these are issues, then certainly Berserker is 10x the issue. Other comparable Warrior procs/passive condis:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Body_Blow

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sundering_Burst

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodlust

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cull_the_Weak

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crack_Shot

Read again don't skim. There is nothing about condi engi, there is something about power procs that work like condition builds. The engi main bias is showing too much.

[bethekey.8314]

4 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Read again don't skim. There is nothing about condi engi, there is something about power procs that work like condition builds. The engi main bias is showing too much.

7 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I think it's more of the proc bulshit from core that you can exploit on the elite specs, they really resemble condition builds where you get hit by random weak looking attack but get 5 conditions.

Sorry, but if you think this doesn't read as if you're talking about conditions, then you need to rephrase or use a better example. If you mean Explosive Entrance (EE) / Aim-Assisted Rocket (AAR), then just specify those lol. Weird to call out a fairly normal interpretation of what you wrote as bias.

Otherwise, I'd be fine with EE and AAR getting their damage shifted across all Engineer abilities. I showed Engi Rifle is among the worst DPS weapons so I'd expect heavy buffs to compensate 🙂

Edited September 20, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Terrorhuz.4695]

15 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Mesmer target drops, clone spam, and the general noise/visual spam.

GW2 players when a spec themed after misleading and deception misleads and deceives: 🤬

[CallousEye.5018]

Any class that can essentially do their full damage while being invulnerable in some way, this includes guardians with their blocks (focus 5 and similar), vindicator evades that do damage, and mesmer f4.

Deadeye insane mobility while stealthing is ridiculous.

Anything that can “global” or nearly global you, especially DH.

Quickness probably needs to be nerfed in pvp as a +50% damage shift is going to be hard to balance.

[Flowki.7194]

11 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

GW2 players when a spec themed after misleading and deception misleads and deceives: 🤬

If I get mislead from a necro/mesmer off a ledge etc, fair play, thats skilled deception. However, it is stupendously easy to target drop+clone spam with 1 button, which is not skilled deception.. and, it becomes obvious fast to more experianced players who the real mesmer is. So its basically just a target drop.. and with the clone spam, retargeting can be difficult becuase of clones being in the way of the real mesmer to click back on him. Scanning for the real mesmer is not hard, but it takes time (some say chrono has high dmg, so time matters).. and then to retarget is just a pain, and the mesmer achieves all of that with minimal effort. Deception, lol.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[dead.7638]

You do understand to do all that the Mesmer is using 60%+ of all their skills in a matter of seconds.   Being smart and using aoe dmg to instantly kill all clones is a basic understanding of fighting a Mesmer.   Simple kitting mechanics so clones never catch you unless you really just stand still while fighting.   It’s a very telegraphed class.   Most class invuls are well over 3 seconds, a Mesmer can for sure spam everything in one go and you take no dmg from a burst.   Also every class is allowed to spam skills, a lot of them do it better.

[Lighter.5631]

anything ranged focused

ex: your build

[bethekey.8314]

38 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

You do understand to do all that the Mesmer is using 60%+ of all their skills in a matter of seconds.   Being smart and using aoe dmg to instantly kill all clones is a basic understanding of fighting a Mesmer.   Simple kitting mechanics so clones never catch you unless you really just stand still while fighting.   It’s a very telegraphed class.   Most class invuls are well over 3 seconds, a Mesmer can for sure spam everything in one go and you take no dmg from a burst.   Also every class is allowed to spam skills, a lot of them do it better.

I agree there are some things that can counter Mesmer, but your logic here is full of issues.

1) Not every spec is power, and not every power spec does AoE. Conditions often take too long to kill clones.

2) Most(?) power AoE is melee I believe, meaning you can't cleave clones while also kiting them

3) A class can't be both telegraphed and able to use "60% of their skills in a matter of seconds". That means many of their important casts are fast/instant, which are difficult to react to. Mesmers can port on top of you with a daze for a nearly unreactable burst.

4) Most class invulns ARE NOT "well over 3 seconds" and don't often let you attack through them. I believe Mesmer can go for 8 - 10 secs, maybe even more? They aren't comparable.

Edited September 21, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, dead.7638 said:

You do understand to do all that the Mesmer is using 60%+ of all their skills in a matter of seconds.   Being smart and using aoe dmg to instantly kill all clones is a basic understanding of fighting a Mesmer.   Simple kitting mechanics so clones never catch you unless you really just stand still while fighting.   It’s a very telegraphed class.   Most class invuls are well over 3 seconds, a Mesmer can for sure spam everything in one go and you take no dmg from a burst.   Also every class is allowed to spam skills, a lot of them do it better.

 

Sorry but I never ever have that issue on chrono when using timecatch+bountiful+escape artist. On pistol their is a stun, free clone and then a phantasm spawning 2 more clones. Swap to GS, and as soon as you have 2 clones from phantasm, split contin, pretty unlocky if those get cleaved in .1 second? Then spam mirror image, GS abilitys, shatter when applicable. Split reset, spam all gs again, saving mirror for distortion. So you spam all pistol (also not bad dmg), 3 or 4 shatters and 2x gs abilitys in around 15 seconds? + quickness autos.. which still do dmg. Then swap back to pistol and spam that again + more shatters. How many cleaves do you think people have? and do you think spending 15-20 seconds cleaving in the middle of a group fight when a chrono jumps is at all viable? you los abuse, spam dodges, go immune, or die. Its very unlikely you will outburst a chrono in a dps race, so counter pressuring them if they jump you is pretty fking difficult if they are playing range and using their team as a meatshield.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Flowki.7194