Thief invisible...

[Tanuki.4603]

I tried to go to world vs world but the thieves are invisible. You can't even fight thief, you start fighting he goes invisible... How cant hey make a class that is invisible... I can throw my grenade on hte ground but it will never hit, this bull sit needs to bes topeed NOW!!! How can i play the game!!!

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

lmao welcome to wvw, been like this for ages.

[Fueki.4753]

Many people hate Stealth in this game, especially on Thief, and voiced their opinion on the forums. But Arenanet did not respond to their wishes.

My best advice is to just auto-attack, while you move on. Don't try to fight them, it's not worth the effort.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Doggie.3184]

That's why CCs and Reveal debuff exists.

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

That's why CCs and Reveal debuff exists.

However, Revealed is unreliable at best and useless at worst. There's not a lot of access to it. It doesn't exactly help that Deadeye's elite utility can remove Revealed.

And using CCs against stealthed enemies is no more than pot-shooting at literal nothing.

But Arenanet is unwilling to even slightly bend on their downside-free absolute invisibility without proximity-based detection, so any discussion about it is pointless anyway.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

However, Revealed is unreliable at best and useless at worst. There's not a lot of access to it. It doesn't exactly help that Deadeye's elite utility can remove Revealed.

And using CCs against stealthed enemies is no more than pot-shooting at literal nothing.

But Arenanet is unwilling to even slightly bend on their downside-free absolute invisibility without proximity-based detection, so any discussion about it is pointless anyway.

No, deadeye's elite, shadow meld, cannot remove revealed anymore. It's been like that for quite some time now.

Besides revealed, or timing it after/during hard cc, the best application vs stealth is Area of Effect skills, block skills, piling on conditions and or and swinging your weapons around by pressing the "1" skill. Most stealth lasts only 2-3 seconds per application. Although things can be chained depending on what was used.

There was a interesting thread a while back where people discussed some pretty interesting ideas on the topic of stealth / revealed reworks when "shadow meld" got changed. Personally I liked some of them IMO. One of them talked about turning the targeted reveal skill into a personal buff. See below.
 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

Besides revealed, or timing it after/during hard cc, the best application vs stealth is Area of Effect skills, block skills, piling on conditions and or and swinging your weapons around by pressing the "1" skill.

And all of these are no more than doing pot-shots at something that may or may not be where you aimed.

And the Thief may very well wait until you have blown all your stuff on pot-shots, if the Thief didn't run away already.

[Antrix.4512]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And the Thief may very well wait until you have blown all your stuff on pot-shots, if the Thief didn't run away already.

ANet is quite a forward-thinking company and they've anticipated situations like this. They've graciously placed a golem in Lion's Arch specifically for such purposes! Just think about it - it doesn't go into stealth, it doesn't run away from you, it doesn't heal, it doesn't wait until you blown all your stuff and it doesn't even hit back, and has a myriad of other virtues! 🤣

Lord Almighty, I'm so glad that ANerf doesn't care about the players and they don't listen to their feedback and such whine-posts. And maybe I'm even starting to understand them..

Edited October 8, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Chips.7968]

17 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Many people hate Stealth in this game, especially on Thief, and voiced their opinion on the forums. But Arenanet did not respond to their wishes.

My best advice is to just auto-attack, while you move on. Don't try to fight them, it's not worth the effort.

They did listen. They buffed it and overloaded it with benefits such as superspeed and initiative gain on both enter/exit stealth \o/

 

They LISTENED 🙂

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just run as far as you can, don't travel alone or stay close to your structures.

It's the hard truth about roaming : this isn't a place for single duels based on a code of honor with coresponding balance between specs, this is WvW.
Players can aggro a fight, can flew, reset fight, kill afk players, camp on positions, stealth in structures, etc; and may be your class or build isn't mean to ohko every others.

[kash.9213]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:48 AM, Chips.7968 said:

They did listen. They buffed it and overloaded it with benefits such as superspeed and initiative gain on both enter/exit stealth \o/

 

They LISTENED 🙂

And they have to enter, and exit, stealth frequently for those benefits.

[cyberzombie.7348]

Holosmith + lock on + prime light beam is your friend 

[prototypedragon.1406]

My favorite part when it comes to fighting a thief is building a guild ballista while running a tanky build and let them come to you.  Hit them with the net shot.plus the bleed and most get downed within 1 to 3 ballista shots if the shots are timed well.

[cyberzombie.7348]

@prototypedragon.1406Lol nice. My favorite trick is to glide on top of the trees in alpine and counter snipe using a old-school killshot build. I even camo my gear for good measure.

Edited October 10, 2023 by cyberzombie.7348

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:50 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

And all of these are no more than doing pot-shots at something that may or may not be where you aimed.

And the Thief may very well wait until you have blown all your stuff on pot-shots, if the Thief didn't run away already.

Not really and if you are blowing all of your stuff all at once then you are ill prepared. If one has a high level grasp of skill of the game it's much more than pot shots. For instance, the reason I mentioned skill 1 is because if you see a damage number go off you know you are right on top of them. If you use a block then there is a considerable timeout before you can attack again with skill 1 for the stealth reveal damage. If you use damage over time skills you may get your thief opponent to blow all of their condition cleanse and or force them to retreat using stealth.

Knowing the limits of your class is key, but also knowing the limits of your opponent is also key. Pick your battles, learn to take advantage. When I started to play WvW I got overpowered by the pub stomp ranger longbow builds... and yes, those builds can get a ton of kills on non experienced players. However after I gained experience, I specifically hunt those types of build users down and execute them with precision. I will go for them first. The number one thing is... You should not expect one build to overpower all builds in all situations. This is the same for most game balance. There is a little bit of rock paper scissors going on in some instances as well which is also a good thing.

 

I won't go into detail, but lets compare a different game mode. Let's compare a beginner raider vs a veteran one. A beginner will not adjust their builds to fit encounters. A beginner will miss mechanics, and time skills poorly. A advanced raider will be able to fill multiple roles and will adjust their build for a higher success rate where applicable. For instance if you do some content as Firebrand you will swap out (stand your ground), (advance), (bow of truth), (sanctuary), (Mantra of Lore), (Mantra of flame), (Wall of Reflection), (Feel My Wrath) or (Mantra of Liberation), (Signet of Courage) depending on your build (HB, QB or Firebrand), team composition, boon uptime and encounter. A beginner will just stick to the cookie cutter build and won't read what these skills do either. A advanced player, however knows when and where to use these skills and even swap them out. The same goes with reading your opponent and counter play in WvW etc.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_guardian_skills

Like I said before, it's my opinion that it would be nice if stealth was readjusted to improve player experience. There are plenty of classes that are just as mobile as thief nowadays, so besides stealth the class itself is caught in a tough place. If there were more counter-play to stealth such as revealed changes it would only be fair if things such as damage and survival were upped. The counter play being that revealed changes to (1) it becomes a self buff that can be applied by a skill or by being stealth attacked and (2) it becomes a partial stealth vision within x range (you see more of smokey a outline).

Edited October 10, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

18 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

My favorite part when it comes to fighting a thief is building a guild ballista while running a tanky build and let them come to you.  Hit them with the net shot.plus the bleed and most get downed within 1 to 3 ballista shots if the shots are timed well.

You sound like me. I used to run a one shot deadeye build to defend a camp with a portal set to a ballista on a ledge overlooking the fight. 

[Chips.7968]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:54 PM, kash.9213 said:

And they have to enter, and exit, stealth frequently for those benefits.

Yes, its almost as if you think the benefits of repeatedly stealthing now are detrimental compared to originally?

Please let me know how a thief is disadvantaged from entering/exiting stealth repeatedly - whether via an actual attack, or the microsecond between exit/enter via blackpowder - meaning you can't target.

Let me know.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Chips.7968

[Parasite.5389]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:21 PM, Tanuki.4603 said:

I can throw my grenade on hte ground but it will never hit

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detection_Pulse

[kash.9213]

22 minutes ago, Chips.7968 said:

Yes, its almost as if you think the benefits of repeatedly stealthing now are detrimental compared to originally?

Please let me know how a thief is disadvantaged from entering/exiting stealth repeatedly - whether via an actual attack, or the microsecond between exit/enter via blackpowder - meaning you can't target.

Let me know.

If all they're doing is going in and out of stealth, then they're not doing much else. But at least you know they'll be coming out of stealth often. If you didn't pack anything to jump on that, that's on you. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Imagine having lock on and still getting bamboozled

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

Yes, its almost as if you think the benefits of repeatedly stealthing now are detrimental compared to originally?

Please let me know how a thief is disadvantaged from entering/exiting stealth repeatedly - whether via an actual attack, or the microsecond between exit/enter via blackpowder - meaning you can't target.

Let me know.

"Thief must actively suffer for having access to stealth at all. If they are benefitted in any way for using their mechanic, it's unfair."

[Sleepwalker.1398]

22 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

If all they're doing is going in and out of stealth, then they're not doing much else. But at least you know they'll be coming out of stealth often. If you didn't pack anything to jump on that, that's on you. 

In and out of stealth and not doing much you say. Pls go fight the [PNOY] Deadeye from FA and then post us a clip of how great that is.

[MalekithDG.6124]

22 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

If all they're doing is going in and out of stealth, then they're not doing much else. But at least you know they'll be coming out of stealth often. If you didn't pack anything to jump on that, that's on you. 

There is nothing to "pack something" when they come out of stealth because you will be in a pistol 5 smoke field thats constantly blinding you, hitting you for 10k and going back into stealth to come back again for another 10k.

Kash... Lets drop it man. You grew old defending this class. Time to admit it. This class should have never designed in this way, it was a mistake which is not exclusive to thief. From the game design to boons, to maps, to bosses, to in game economy, to classes everything ANET did was a mistake. Stealth is not an exception. 

Its not the stealth itself that is inherently toxic it is the fact that they become untargeted so you have to click on them again every time they resurface which already eats away at your precious time, well, that and 50 second blind + unmatched mobility. If the game kept the targeting but no longer locked your character to the direction of the thief it would be less toxic. Thief's position could still be unknown and player get to defend a bit more easily.

Lets just agree on deleting Pistol 5 solves all of these, just add smoke field and a leap to any other weapon. You get to keep your mobility and untargeting mechanic and stealth.

[MalekithDG.6124]

30 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"Thief must actively suffer for having access to stealth at all. If they are benefitted in any way for using their mechanic, it's unfair."

Shouldnt be designed like this in the first place. ANET made it so that stealth was thiefs core mechanic (even though it isnt, it is the steal mechanic that identifies with THIEF". So nerfing stealth becomes awfully personal to thieves... Its almost as if pets dealt insane damage and had insane AI people's whining about ranger pets would be personal against rangers. 

This class is long over due for reworking. Steal mechanic needs to be extended to provide thiefs with more gameplay options and stealth should (From every class that has access to it ) needs to be slowly deleted or atleast stay as an option only and not game plan. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by MalekithDG.6124

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 minute ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

it is the steal mechanic that identifies with THIEF

Imagine if getting a single usable skill that in most cases does little to no damage every 17-21 seconds was your core mechanic. Oh god. ☠️

2 minutes ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

So nerfing stealth becomes awfully personal to thieves... Its almost as if pets dealt insane damage and had insane AI people's whining about ranger pets would be personal against rangers. 

True, but lemme sharpen your equivalency. It's like if pets dealt insane damage and had insane AI, then due to whining the insane damage and AI were removed, but people keep whining because having a pet out doesn't cause damage over time to the ranger despite their kit being built around the pet, and they really think the pet being out should come with more drawbacks because...idk sometimes it knocks you down or something.

Quote

Shouldnt be designed like this in the first place. 

Truuuu but nobody wants to suggest rebalancing that lets thieves play. It's almost all sweetly-worded "please kill the class, I don't like it" despite there being direct answers to dealing with it.

If they wanna redesign thief, go for it. I am willing to bet gold that if the result is usuable the same people would be peddling the "darn thieves" argument adapted to whatever other shenanigan they get up to.