November 28 Skills and Balance Update Preview

[F I Z Z Y.2380]

i'll hope the balance patch is also about the power creep in wvw. There is no fun anymore to face only try hards with classes that one or 2 shot u. if i check my combat log most single hits  are 8-9k and, then u have those rifle warriors those hit with a single hit 15 - 16k and take them a few second to hit that high again same goes for dragon hunters bow or willbender with bow.

Mesmer same story they hit to hard. and are barely catchable.

what i notice as well those aura share elementalist's feels to op u cant really counter them it gets even whorse when a group is full with them. 

another thing about the Dragon's stats. It might be good to lower the vitality on those stats make it similar as berserker & valkyrie stats, the dragon's stats is also a reason of the power creep since it adds  a lot ferocity + vitality it is the same as marauder but then less precission. there should be penalty if u want to do damage fine but, ur health should be lower with that amount of ferocity.

Edited October 31, 2023 by F I Z Z Y.2380

[Loke.1429]

Preview is somehow (how??) missing a nerf to willbender in wvw. E.g.

On 10/22/2023 at 2:08 PM, psizone.8437 said:

• Nerf the damage and/or increase the cooldown on Whirling Light.
• Add a small activation time to Judge's Intervention and Symbol of Blades.
• Remove the stability from Crashing Courage.

Those 3 should bring it in line with other specs without completely breaking it.

There is a lot of feedback on this in that thread.

 Who on the balance team plays wvw?

Edited October 31, 2023 by Loke.1429

[TheGrimm.5624]

Quote:

Mesmer

Our goal for mesmer in this update was to improve the set of tools available to support builds. We've made larger changes to the chaos and inspiration specializations to provide better access to certain boons and improve healing capabilities.

If the goal is more support options for Mesmer any chance on either:

* Reduce the cast time to prepare mantras since 2.25 seconds in WvW is a long time in a fight

or

* Move the heal trigger from the Restorative Mantra's trait to the use of the mantra versus the preparation but reduce the heal amount to account for the additional times that the mantra can triggered due to the ammo counts. Then the 2.25 preparation makes more sense since you could do that out of combat.

Right now if you are looking to help with some heals you need to leave the mantra unprepared before a fight which just doesn't seem like a good idea or you are burning ammo to get back to the preparation stage and then why use a 2.25 ability to trigger a heal.

Quick thought

[Chips.7968]

1 hour ago, Loke.1429 said:

Preview is somehow (how??) missing a nerf to willbender in wvw. E.g.

There is a lot of feedback on this in that thread.

 Who on the balance team plays wvw?

Roy. On Willbender.

[psizone.8437]

1 hour ago, Chips.7968 said:

Roy. On Willbender.

All roads lead to Roy.

[FalsePromises.6398]

I like what's going on with scrapper, but some of it just sits with me wrong.

1. As much as I love the idea of adding a new passive barrier source for nearby allies onto scrapper, to help pad up healscrapper, I don't think making it compete with Gyroscopic Acceleration will make anyone want or use it. It's a shame because it's a really good idea too, it just won't go far if it's conflicting with Gyroscopic Acceleration. That's practically a must-have for any scrapper build. 

2. Please stop bloating Function Gyro. It's lowkey a mess of a skill already. You want to use it off cooldown for traited purposes (superspeed, boons, etc.), but you also want to save it for revives, but using it for revives gives you a punishing cooldown, which then affects your ability to use your traited benefits... it's a skill that would be fine if it stood alone, but making more and more hinge on it is questionable. Honestly, turning it into a single revive target but have 3 skill ammo might be better than making it a single cast that scales up cooldown the more targets it revives. Gives you better ability to control how you use it. 

3. While these buffs are nice for healscrapper, there's still the major issues of no easy access fury and no aegis. Fury only comes from either dropping a whole traitline to get it or dropping Soothing Detonation, a strong passive heal, for Experimental Turrets and then dropping a whole utility slot for Rifle Turret solely for fury upkeep. Fury is a long-standing pain point for healscrapper, and no access to aegis also weighs against it. If you want to healscrapper to get a glow-up in PvE, add fury somewhere that doesn't require a tradeoff, akin to what most supports already have. Honestly you could just replace the protection on Expert Examination with fury instead, since Invention line's Reconstruction Enclosure is practically the same thing if you're using Medkit, or toss it on Blast Gyro like Scourge's Desiccate. 

Also I ain't been keeping up on dps scrapper, but I'd be careful with that Applied Force buff. 

[Chips.7968]

32 minutes ago, psizone.8437 said:

All roads lead to Roy.

Someone asked who of the devs plays wvw. He does. On willbender. It's just a fact. 

People can draw their own conclusions. Or not. But it *is* a true statement. He does play wvw. On willbender.

[psizone.8437]

40 minutes ago, Chips.7968 said:

Someone asked who of the devs plays wvw. He does. On willbender. It's just a fact. 

People can draw their own conclusions. Or not. But it *is* a true statement. He does play wvw. On willbender.

I know.

He also plays in a gvg guild, shouldn't draw any conclusions as to why boon strips keep getting nerfed as well. We'll just leave that as another statement.

[Aamu.3952]

Can we get rune of radiance back as a relic?

Was a fun and build-defining set effect.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Aamu.3952

[Angesombre.4630]

Revenant

I still say that changing "Contained Temper" is bad because the only traits that can provide non-elite fury are 
"Invoker's Rage" fury 5s CD 10s (why not change this trait instead)
"Contained Temper" our biggest source of fury, plus it's really synergistic with "Incensed Response" (Gain might when you grant yourself fury), with "Ferocious Aggression" (All damage dealt is increased while you have fury) and "Roiling Mists" (Critical-hit chance is further increased while you are under the effect of fury).

The other "Assassin's Presence" trait (While you are in combat, grant fury to yourself and nearby allies each interval) 3s CD10s.
So now you only need 2 traits to obtain fury.

And sword 5 gives some.

On elite trait specialization, there's only on renegat:
"Endless Enmity" (Grant fury to yourself and nearby allies when you critically strike a foe)
"Bold Reversal" (When you break a stun, unleash an empowering roar)
"Brutal Momentum" (Gain increased critical-hit chance. This bonus is increased further while your endurance is full. Gain vigor when you gain fury) Handy if you're erest static, which this game is, ironically.

For skills, there are 3:
"Riposting Shadows (Legendary Assassin. Dodge backward through the Mists. Remove movement-impairing conditions, and gain fury) cost 30 at the same time Breaks Stun
"Facet of Darkness Herald
"Scavenger Burst" Vindicator

So my question is should we use celestial stuff, concentrate all the time, or play exclusively with elite specializations?

All this to gain a little energy if we remove a stun.

The revenant doesn't choose these utility skills, they can't be changed, they're linked to the legends.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Angesombre.4630

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

Roy. On Willbender.

Mind expanding detail?

Edited November 1, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

Someone asked who of the devs plays wvw. He does. On willbender. It's just a fact. 

People can draw their own conclusions. Or not. But it *is* a true statement. He does play wvw. On willbender.

So this is why its a so easy to beat or so tough to beat point? We have a number of them on both sides in WvW?

[Xion.5694]

Beside missing willbender wvw nerfs I still do not see any projectile hate skill nerfs. 

It is insane that you can block 50 man zerg projectiles without any penality. 

[csuvix.9284]

Can you just get rid of the Mechanical Genius recharge increase penalty?

It is so dumb. Why ranger has no penalty when pet out of range then. 

Not only we have no toolbelt skills but this as well. Even the trait name is "Genius" not "Dumb".

Mech AI is not the best and I can't send it at least to facetank the champion while I range it because I have to be in range with it otherwise I have 50% "toolbelt" recharge rate.

Remove it or at least rework it.

Thanks

A casual GW enjoyer since 2005

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

In addition to leaving feedback on skills, let them know what you think about the way ArenaNet integrates your feedback.  Is it effective or efficient?  Do you think ArenaNet should include a PTR server?  Should ArenaNet upddate their design philosophy with more details and nuance?  Should they provide a balance road map, what is their end goals for balance? damage avoidance, stealth, boon balls, buffs, debuffs etc. etc.  Please provide specific feedback it will be helpful to them.

[psizone.8437]

31 minutes ago, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

Do you think ArenaNet should include a PTR server?

I think EotM should be updated with gliding and mounts and separated from the WvW balance side of the game and made into a testing area for changes. 
 

It's the perfect place for it and if the rewards are updated they'd have plenty of people going there to be guinea pigs. 

A separate PTR server might not get the player count needed for accurate testing as they wouldn't be able to easily reward players for playing there.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 10/28/2023 at 11:48 AM, Voyant.1327 said:

The only thing that isn't a nerf is the weapon skill changes.

Its a DPS & HPS loss in Chaos & Inspiration with these changes, and we lose more class identity. 

Those who think this benefit Mesmer haven't looked close enough at what is happening. 

The only people excited about it are people who don't use them currently. Those who do realize how awful these changes are. 

Was planning on buying the expansion today, but looks like another long break when this patch launches so I'm holding off. Maybe they'll get it right in another year lol. 

[Deleted]

 

I know from the Mesmer forum that you currently play Heal Virtuoso. Therefore there is not a single boon you can provide to the group and you have nothing but HP to provide. 

There is no way you can use the Shatter healing because it is a self only heal. Healing Prism triggers only once every 10 seconds and is triggered on Summoning Illusions if you use that heal.

Virtuoso has no way of applying Regen except to yourself if you Block or Evade. So you currently can't get 90% of the benefits of the Chaos traitline because you think you're the healer but you can't generate Regeneration.

You can't have been using the Signet trait for Distortion and Aegis because that is in the same tier as heal on summons.

 

The new changes will give you group Healing on Shatters, keep your group Healing on Illusions, and let you use the Revive boosting traits or group conditions cleanse.

You'll actually be able to provide permanent Protection and Regeneration.

You HAVE to be spamming Shatters because Virtuoso doesn't generate new Illusions when you already have max daggers so without changing anything you'll get the group heal from the Grandmaster heal trait.

Edit: I posted this after reading 8 pages seeing the poster repeat many times.

I see on page 11 it's tempered so I wanted to clarify.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157
Saw later post

[Joswi.2635]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Empowered Empowerment: This trait will now cause Elemental Empowerment to always be 50% more effective. Effectiveness at the maximum number of stacks is unchanged.

This is so close. I just don't know why this trait doesn't just make Elemental Empowerment always be 100% more effective, it seems like a good way to raise the floor of damage without increasing the ceiling which has been said on stream is one of the goals with the new balance philosophy.

[Dagger.2035]

The thief relic could use a few fixes.  I know it doesn’t trigger on Infiltrator’s Strike, Flanking Strike, Larcenous Strike, and Unrelenting Assault to name a few.

[urtos.5749]

Hi 

I found a bug, sphere specialist is not working. If you have your curser over deploy jade sphere, you will have a time for the quickness. If you have your curser over spectacular Sphere in hero build, you will have a different time if you use sphere specialist. 

If you chose a different trait for trait the difference will be gone. 

The quickness that you give will always be the lower time.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

heal scourge is a problem in wvw. You did not adress that.

Willbender has still too much burst, mobility and sustain. You did not adress that.

Thief still has access to stealth outside of pve. You did not adress that.

 

In short: total failure of a balance patch.

[CETheLucid.3964]

Bit disappointed Relic of Mabon didn't get another looking at. The way it works is antithetical to every might generating build in the game. No one is spacing their might in 3 second intervals. Not many classes can generate a singular might stack within a 5 second window (though some classes can put out several stacks; none of them count outside of that window and inside of it they count for 1) or risk losing the buff (8 seconds), and for all of the trouble all might stacks are buffed for 10 seconds before you lose all of them. It's a cool concept. Mabon's a cool character. Someone might be tempted to take that 10 seconds of super might, but it's just not viable to work with as is. It's needlessly complicated for meager gain.

[MagicBot.1570]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:50 PM, Milotnuis.8341 said:

I really wish dragonhunter got more love, you can't just look at the benchmark for its damage and say its okay because a lot of it is very contingent on 3 things:

1. You need 100% aegis uptime

2. You need to have 10 boons permanently on you

3. You need to be above 90% health

And if you do magically somehow meet all 3 of these conditions in an actual encounter you get out performed by someone playing soulbeast for half the effort. It just feels really bad that soulbeast has more burst AND more sustain without it being so dependent any annoying conditions. I'm not saying I want to see a soulbeast nerf, I just wish I didn't have to worry so much meeting those conditions to deal damage. It'd be nice if you had to struggle to decide between playing dragonhunter or soulbeast in endgame pve but at the moment it's not even close.

Oh, I absolutely want to see a Soulbeast nerf. This spec has been going under the radar for too long, and it happens to get free buffs here and there every time there's a patch. It is dominating in fractals, with nothing coming close to its burst, and sustained damage, and CC, on top of an already absurd self-boon uptime. I actually think fractal balance is a pretty big problem right now, which is completely disregarded.

Here are a few examples of the direct or indirect buffs Soulbeast got this year, off the top of my head:

- introduction of hammer

- sword rework

- damage coefficient increases across the board

- an insane amount of free power on the sword trait, too

- awesome synergy with both Firework and Dragonhunter Relic

- and now a full pet rework, which not only buffs Soulbeast indirectly from the double pet bug abuse, but they went out of their way and hard buffed Devourer as well (perfect for precasting!)

You can call this however you want, but nothing comes even close to the absurdity that is power Soulbeast right now. And let's not mention condi Soulbeast, which will also be overperforming after this update as well (it already is insanely good)

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by MagicBot.1570

[Netrizhul.3429]

People think this game balanced at all? It's not even close to being balanced. This happens when you add tons of weird traits. More trait game has have less balanced game will be. When you pass rock paper scissor, good luck balancing your game. And don't tell me about how a single ability can change depending on "game mode"

 

My suggestion for WvW would removing Elite Spec all together from that mode.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Netrizhul.3429
Suggestion

[Eramthgyn.6582]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Transmute: This trait will now activate after using a healing skill instead of upon reaching a threshold of conditions.

I like the enge changes expect for this quote here.

Really? Thats the 5th!

THE 5TH TRAIT an HAM (Heal Alac Mech) cant use because HAMs have no healing skill!!

Why didnt you at last fix this problem before you introduce more traits like this?

It shouldnt be to hard to actually fix it, just change the Med Kits Vital Burst skill to work as a healing skill for the purpose of skills, traits and relics when the Mechanist Traitline is equipped.

That should be an easy fix for this 5 traits, the HAM cant use (and with your change, 3 of this traits are 3 minors that are in every healer build).