GW2 needs more optimization than just DX11.

[Sindust.7059]

I have an AMD 7950X3D CPU and an AMD 7900XTX GPU with 64GB of DDR5-6000 CL30 RAM. And this is my FPS in some places that are nearly empty (if the pic gets deleted some day: 20-30 fps in Amnytas if looking towards the center of the zone, dpending on where I stand and the exact direction of the camera, at 1440p with settings cranked, aside from those that I don't like visually), and it can get even lower during intense metas. This is unplayable sub-30 fps with hardware that is close to the absolute best available that is 10 years newer than the "recommended" system requirements. ANet needs to do to GW2 what ZOS did to ESO, and perform some massive optimizations if they intend to continue creating zones that are this bad on the hardware. Not even Starfield dips this low in the most intensive places and situations.

[Jin.8501]

ESO turned out great performance wise. It's impressive to see it use all your system resources unlike GW2. It used to be just as bad how GW2 was/is

[Astralporing.1957]

It has been explained by devs when they first mentioned moving to dx11: By itself, it's not an optimization process at all. It merely opens the doors to a future optimization work. So, in that sense, you are completely right - GW2 does need more optimizatio work than just dx11, because dx11 by itself does not do much.

[Sindust.7059]

2 hours ago, Jin.8501 said:

ESO turned out great performance wise. It's impressive to see it use all your system resources unlike GW2. It used to be just as bad how GW2 was/is

This. The multithreaded rendering that they implemented a few years back almost doubled my FPS, and back then I was on R7 1700 + RX580. The other optimizations pushed it even farther. Nowadays I'm basically locked at 165 FPS (refresh rate of my display), and it never drops below 100 FPS in even the most intense scenarios.

But with GW2 you can keep using a 10 years old mid range GPU while blowing your budget on the CPU every year, and you'll still be CPU bottlenecked because the game is basically single-threaded. It's insane.

[Mortifer.2946]

Maybe you don’t have enough RAM?

Just kidding 🎃 

I don’t know about everyone else here but to me GW2 already feels outdated (even though still best MMO overall for me).

I wouldn’t mind starting all over in GW3, with fresh graphics and gameplay mechanics

Edited October 29, 2023 by Mortifer.2946

[AllNightPlayer.1286]

More optimisation than DX11? DX12 then?

[SweetPotato.7456]

My FPS is 60, i run in a 3 ways 50 man map.

[Gazrul.3086]

I agree, Amnytas and even Skywatch are pretty hard on the FPS. Especially if you are facing the interior of the zones. It's a shame, since both zones are beautiful and with fun events and metas. 

[xDumplinx.7983]

I think it is something else wrong with your PC, because im on Ryzen 7 7800x3d and RX7900xtx on 4k 144Hz monitor, and never had any issues keeping smooth frames, even in SotO

[Holgarf.6581]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It has been explained by devs when they first mentioned moving to dx11: By itself, it's not an optimization process at all. It merely opens the doors to a future optimization work. So, in that sense, you are completely right - GW2 does need more optimizatio work than just dx11, because dx11 by itself does not do much.

But it doesn't really. It gives opportunity for more eye-candy, which will further tank any weak efforts Anet typically employ to help boost any sort of performance.

[Astralporing.1957]

36 minutes ago, Holgarf.6581 said:

But it doesn't really. It gives opportunity for more eye-candy, which will further tank any weak efforts Anet typically employ to help boost any sort of performance.

It does both. As with any tool, what matters is how it is used. DX11 just gives developers more options than dx9 did - but they do need to take advantage of those for it to matter.

[Sindust.7059]

6 hours ago, xDumplinx.7983 said:

I think it is something else wrong with your PC, because im on Ryzen 7 7800x3d and RX7900xtx on 4k 144Hz monitor, and never had any issues keeping smooth frames, even in SotO

Do exactly what I described, not just loading into the zone. Because in that spot where I stand in the screenshot if I swing the camera around 180 degrees, it goes up to ~70 fps... Which is also kitten, because that's worse than what I get in Starfield on average, but it's certainly smooth enough to not be immersion breaking.

[Bladestrom.6425]

43 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

Do exactly what I described, not just loading into the zone. Because in that spot where I stand in the screenshot if I swing the camera around 180 degrees, it goes up to ~70 fps... Which is also kitten, because that's worse than what I get in Starfield on average, but it's certainly smooth enough to not be immersion breaking.

60 fps is general regarded as perfect for all games bar competitive shooters.  I've got an old i3 9350 clocked at 5k with an rx570 with frames locked at 60 fps and the game is smooth as butter,  including WVW.  Amanitas occasionally was dipping to 50, but I brought shadows down by one notch, and i'm fine with that.  GW2 is actually smartly optimised because it supports such old systems. 

[fatihso.7258]

14 hours ago, Mortifer.2946 said:

Maybe you don’t have enough RAM?

Just kidding 🎃 

I don’t know about everyone else here but to me GW2 already feels outdated (even though still best MMO overall for me).

I wouldn’t mind starting all over in GW3, with fresh graphics and gameplay mechanics

There is no guarantee we will have true multi core support in a gw3, it may very well be performing problematic as gw2. 
 

this said, a degree of optimization always occur to keep things running. But the kind of optimization you are asking for is extra and it needs to be looked at the cost of financial expense and dev time lost. They said a few times the further offloading of main thread in the current gw2 state is very risky and would break a lot of things like physics and cause entire game mechanics to fail and do not work as intended at all. They said some code/logic are meant to be run together in main thread and separating them is not possible without ruining how the game works.
To make you imagine, for example dodge stops working, or you can see the animation but you actually don’t dodge or even if you dodge it does not dodge anything or dodges some of the things only. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by fatihso.7258

[Antrix.4512]

13 hours ago, xDumplinx.7983 said:

I think it is something else wrong with your PC, because im on Ryzen 7 7800x3d and RX7900xtx on 4k 144Hz monitor, and never had any issues keeping smooth frames, even in SotO

I think you should try to set GW2 setting at least a bit higher than ultra low 🤣

[starlinvf.1358]

10 hours ago, Antrix.4512 said:

I think you should try to set GW2 setting at least a bit higher than ultra low 🤣

Ultra low would make it run worse, since some setting will offload TO the CPU to compensate for a weak GPU. 

[Antrix.4512]

24 minutes ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

Ultra low would make it run worse, since some setting will offload TO the CPU to compensate for a weak GPU. 

Friend, to be honest, I don't really care. It was kind of sarcastic in response to yet another post along the lines of "I don't know what you're talking about, I always get 999 FPS with a 300-members squad in the center of Amnytas during the meta event", nothing more than that 😉

[killerkram.5129]

I get better performance in Star Citizen than I do in guild wars. That's nuts to me considering how much is going in Star Citizen when it comes to big events and how good the graphics are compared to guild wars 2.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

On 10/29/2023 at 12:07 AM, Sindust.7059 said:

This. The multithreaded rendering that they implemented a few years back almost doubled my FPS, and back then I was on R7 1700 + RX580. The other optimizations pushed it even farther. Nowadays I'm basically locked at 165 FPS (refresh rate of my display), and it never drops below 100 FPS in even the most intense scenarios.

But with GW2 you can keep using a 10 years old mid range GPU while blowing your budget on the CPU every year, and you'll still be CPU bottlenecked because the game is basically single-threaded. It's insane.

Why torture youself with this? If you can afford a pc like that you can probably also afford a subscription based mmo that has much more to offer. I mean, gaming is for fun. Guildwars 2 is a gold grind simulator. Besides story and beautiful maps it has nothing. Gathering mats that sell for nearly nothing with the tp fee. Meta’s that only drop junk loot. The real reward that is Super Rare and 1/10k droprate. Ofc you can start raiding. Then you have a nice goal for some months or a year. If you have full legendary armor and some weapons. Where to use it? In a huge boss fight thats immerse for max 5 times. Sure the skins are nice. Pvp is no longer as what it was back then (by reading comments) the only content that gets refreshed often are gem store items. Thats the income. I had read that ppl finished soto within a few days while playing casually. Wvw is nice but imo i always need a group. Solo is not my thing. Ofc the game has strikes, dungeons, open world but thats just for fun. Its not rewarding for me. Only fractals and raids does have rewards. But thats for skilled players. Not the casual. 

[Sindust.7059]

9 hours ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

If you can afford a pc like that you can probably also afford a subscription based mmo that has much more to offer

1. What does that have to do with anything?

2. If you think subscription based MMOs have much more to offer just because of their monetization strategy, I think you haven't played them.

3. In the post you quoted I'm talking about ESO, and ESO is not a subscription based MMO, you can buy all the DLCs like you can buy all the story in GW2. The monetization strategy of these games is very similar, which makes it a very good comparison.

4. There is no guarantee that subscription based MMOs will run any better.

[Bladestrom.6425]

46 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

1. What does that have to do with anything?

2. If you think subscription based MMOs have much more to offer just because of their monetization strategy, I think you haven't played them.

3. In the post you quoted I'm talking about ESO, and ESO is not a subscription based MMO, you can buy all the DLCs like you can buy all the story in GW2. The monetization strategy of these games is very similar, which makes it a very good comparison.

4. There is no guarantee that subscription based MMOs will run any better.

ESO performance is also a car crash anywhere where you have a group of people casting spells, i.e the only place its not an issue is open world where there is no big groups and 5 man pve dungeons (and even that it can be dodgy as hell)    its so bad wvw is only playable when the maps are empty (work that one out!).  GW2 destroys it on performance.

Edited November 1, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Sindust.7059]

36 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

ESO performance is also a car crash anywhere where you have a group of people casting spells, i.e the only place its not an issue is open world where there is no big groups and 5 man pve dungeons (and even that it can be dodgy as hell)    its so bad wvw is only playable when the maps are empty (work that one out!).  GW2 destroys it on performance.

That was true like 3-4 years ago. It isn't true now, and that's the entire point of me bringing it up. Idk how it is in pvp, because I never play it (I hate pvp in mmorpgs), but raids do not drop the FPS much, and in crowded cities I also still get 100+ FPS in ESO. In GW2 you can drop to sub-30 while standing in the middle of nowhere as I've shown in the screenshot. That doesn't happen in ESO at all. There was a place in a dungeon (final boss room in Fang Lair if it tells you anything) where I had the same effect of FPS jumping by 4x depending on where I point the camera like in the screenshoted place in GW2, but since the implementation of multithreaded rendering that does not happen any more, anywhere in the game.

[Assolador.3598]

1 hour ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

ESO performance is also a car crash anywhere where you have a group of people casting spells, i.e the only place its not an issue is open world where there is no big groups and 5 man pve dungeons (and even that it can be dodgy as hell)    its so bad wvw is only playable when the maps are empty (work that one out!).  GW2 destroys it on performance.

I was playing it some minutes ago and thinking, man, I wish gw2 was optimized as eso

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i think the map artists don't use proper culling materials in the new map areas, as all the surfaces you can't see have real textures and aren't eliminated at build time. you can see this on any map by breaking out of it (often by accident), but on most of them the other side of the surfaces isn't visible.

 

in a properly designed map, hidden surfaces are supposed to have a culling material and get dropped entirely when the map is built.

 

maybe this system would work if their dynamic culling applied at run-time worked very well, but it seems to be only very basic since they removed gpu-accelerated umbra culling when they made the switch from directx 9 to dx11, actually slowing the game down for some players.

Edited November 1, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Bladestrom.6425]

21 hours ago, Assolador.3598 said:

I was playing it some minutes ago and thinking, man, I wish gw2 was optimized as eso

then you clearly don't raid or pvp or wvw or are aware of the general consensus or aware that the developers themselves 2 years ago admitted there was major issues and started a program of work.