The lack of "horror"...

[Ashantara.8731]

Just playing through Orr again, and once more I am confronted with the fact of how much potential was wasted here. There is literally nothing that really gives you the chills.

The only remotely scary moment was the Estate of Decay story mission where the undead Mesmer was hosting a party, turning the living into one of them.

Apart from that, we only have karate zombies and necromancers roaming the lands. *yawn*

If we ever get to visit another "domain of the undead", I hope we will feel the chill -- creepy baddies (e.g. vampire lords/ladies), scary story-telling, and some cool quests (e.g., getting infected and having to find a cure).

Until then, walking through Orr will remain a disappointment, though the ambience is really nice and the undead also look creepy enough.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Randulf.7614]

I think the themes are there even if the portrayal wasn't 100%. I do think they did the horror vibe a lot better with sections of early LS4 and sections of Icebrood Saga. Taking the Scarab Plague out, seeing Kralk crystallise civilians outside AMnoon and Jormag do the same in the DRMs as everlasting ice prisons, is a very dark, horror idea

They probably could have a gone further, but there's a balance to strike not to overdo it entirely in a game with pink sparkles everywhere

[Ashantara.8731]

3 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I think the themes are there even if the portrayal wasn't 100%. I do think they did the horror vibe a lot better with sections of early LS4 and sections of Icebrood Saga. Taking the Scarab Plague out, seeing Kralk crystallise civilians outside AMnoon and Jormag do the same in the DRMs as everlasting ice prisons, is a very dark, horror idea

They probably could have a gone further, but there's a balance to strike not to overdo it entirely in a game with pink sparkles everywhere

Well, there is a lot of death in GW2, so I wouldn't call it a game of pink sparkles everywhere. 😉

I just feel sad everytime I am seeing the potential that was wasted in Orr. The vibes are there, but it's all tease and no substance. Orr could have been my favorite GW2 region and story. 😞

Edited November 4, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Danikat.8537]

I think part of it is Anet want to stick to a 12+ age rating, so they can't make things too scary even when they're aiming for more of a horror theme.

But I also think horror depends on a lot of factors, even for one person it can vary depending on the details. For example in most settings I'd find it absolutely terrifying if I had to find my way through almost complete darkness which is definitely full of monsters. But I've been playing a lot of Tears of the Kingdom, where I'll regularly do exactly that without any real worry, because I'm reasonably sure I can handle whatever comes at me out of the darkness. I don't know what it will be, but a lot of the uncertainty which makes that situation scary is gone, so it becomes a lot more mundane.

GW2 is similar. In other games zombies can really scare me, because they're not easy to deal with, especially if they get close or there's too many of them. In GW2 they don't bother me nearly as much, because they're just another enemy and you can kill them the same way as everything else. There's also the fact that they're never going to do anything too drastic to our characters, because they want us to be able to keep playing them. Even when we died it didn't stick, and I think that's why Caithe got branded but the Commander didn't.

I think the game can still be pretty disturbing in places, but again that's subjective. One of the parts of Orr which really stuck with me was seeing a risen farmer endlessly tilling the soil in what I assume had been a field. It doesn't sound like much, but the sight of this dead farmer endlessly preparing dead soil for crops that were long-gone because they were incapable of recognising what had happened to them really hit me. There's bits like that throughout the game, for some recent examples there's Bright Shore's collection in the Aberrant Forest in Bjora Marches, or some of the stories from the Astral Ward and the people in Skywatch about their experiments with the Fractals. The whole story about the begining, and end, of the Elder Dragons in EoD as well. But a lot of that is dependant on the player taking the time to slow down and explore the details, it's not something Anet can really build into everyone's experience.

[Shuzuru.3651]

Well, to be fair, I don't think the goal for Orr ever was horror. It's more designed to be something oppressing, something like "nowhere is safe, anyone could die any moment and instantly turn against you"

And to be honest this sentiment is pretty well done in both the story and environment design. (Well, now less with powercreep, featurecreep and Orr nerfs due to complains, but you got the point) 

Honestly, horror wouldn't really work in a game like gw2, at least not at the degree you would except. (It kinda work a bit in lws4 and ibs, but let's be honest, it's small compared to a game designed for it) 

The player character is just too much able in the normal gameplay to allow that. 

[MrGarlic.1834]

In Orr, if you listen to the ambient sounds, you might hear the call of the fearsome Magpie. They have a special set of skills that will chill you, they will find you and they will swoop you.

If you have ever been attacked by a Magpie in real life, then you will understand.

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

One of the parts of Orr which really stuck with me was seeing a risen farmer endlessly tilling the soil in what I assume had been a field. It doesn't sound like much, but the sight of this dead farmer endlessly preparing dead soil for crops that were long-gone because they were incapable of recognising what had happened to them really hit me.

But then the undead farmer would see you and attack you, you'd kill him in the blink of an eye, and thereby the whole scene was ruined. 😄 I would have liked Orr a lot better had we seen more scary things that don't immediately come running to karate-kick us -- that really ruins the mood for me.

I don't know if you have ever played the game "The Vanishing of Ethan Carter" (not a zombie game, mind you; completely different genre, and I don't want to spoil any details, because it is a great game everyone should give a go). The game had me constantly anticipating something horrific to happen any second now, and that anticipation was super thrilling and made for an exciting gaming experience.

Often, things are a lot scarier when they are sparsely spread across an area and startle you, when you don't see them coming, or when you just anticipate them and they put all sorts of scary images in your head. That's why the beginning of the Bjora Marches episode was so well executed: you could sense the horror of what must have happened there without having hordes of enemies come running at you and attacking you.

34 minutes ago, MrGarlic.1834 said:

In Orr, if you listen to the ambient sounds, you might hear the call of the fearsome Magpie. They have a special set of skills that will chill you, they will find you and they will swoop you.

If you have ever been attacked by a Magpie in real life, then you will understand.

😂

No magpies, but this came to mind: seagulls

Edited November 5, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Farohna.6247]

I do not care for horror or jump scares.  Just not my thing.  I don't like going around with a sense of anticipation that something horrible is going to happen...it really does nothing good for my anxiety.  Not into adrenaline pumping before bedtime lol.  

I prefer a good story, interesting environments, and more relaxed overall.  I don't mind a little creepy or a bit of uneasiness, but more just to enhance the story, i.e. abominations cobbled from parts, voices speaking to the commander, the tragedy of some of the characters.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Bjora marches is the only real horror themed map. 

[Randulf.7614]

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Well, there is a lot of death in GW2, so I wouldn't call it a game of pink sparkles everywhere. 😉

I just feel sad everytime I am seeing the potential that was wasted in Orr. The vibes are there, but it's all tease and no substance. Orr could have been my favorite GW2 region and story. 😞

Quite correct I apologise.

Some sparkles are green

[Fueki.4753]

With GW2's current age rating, there's nothing they can do but barely scratch the surface of horror themes.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Gazrul.3086]

Bastion of the Penitent raid wing is pretty horrific, when you find out what was going on in there. 

[Pomdepin.7068]

Let's hope Nayos will be just that. It has potential and feels creepy the first time you arrive there and you're chased by Cetus. I'm hoping they'll keep a darker and oppressive vibe.

[Luthan.5236]

Also depends on how you define "horror". A lot of people seem to think just  zombies/vampires or a serial killer mean horror. Same for "jump scares". I think the best "horror" is when the character actually fears stuff. When in movies the people there experience fear and it is well-written vs. just aimed at scaring the viewer.

This could contradict with the open world gameplay. (You can't really create a good atmosphere with tons of other players running around there with their mounts and infusion/legendary effects. 😄) Age rating also has been mentioned. At best I think it would work in the personal story.

[Fueki.4753]

15 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Same for "jump scares".

in my opinion, this does not belong into the Horror genre at all. Jump Scares are all about cheap instant effects to break immersion and get the heart rate up, which is not what horror should be about.

At least to me, Horror is more about immersive atmospheres and build up of the feeling that the environment itself grows increasingly unwelcoming. Whether it ends up with a grotesque monster in the end or not, does not matter to me. The only important aspects to Horror for me are the atmosphere and the increasingly squeezing feeling in my chest.

15 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

You can't really create a good atmosphere with tons of other players running around there with their mounts and infusion/legendary effects.

The ever-growing particle vomit and the resulting performance drops are the scariest part in the game to me.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Noah Salazar.5430]

lack of horror you say?

Imagine coming with army that you raised for so long, ready to conquer whole tyria, only to spot commander menacingly aproching your direction

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

12 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Bjora marches is the only real horror themed map. 

If they had the level of uneasiness Bjora had for Soto maps.. oh boy.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

At least to me, Horror is more about immersive atmospheres and build up of the feeling that the environment itself grows increasingly unwelcoming.

Oh, I absolutely agree. 🙂 Unfortunately, most horror story writers don't know where to go with it and the conclusion of the stories often turn out to be quite generic.

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The only important aspects to Horror for me are the atmosphere and the increasingly squeezing feeling in my chest.

True. And I think we can agree that Orr has none of that. 😉

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

If they had the level of uneasiness Bjora had for Soto maps.. oh boy.

👍

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The ever-growing particle vomit and the resulting performance drops are the scariest part in the game to me.

🤣

[Randulf.7614]

I think we need to be very careful in defining horror. Right now, horror writing - something I read a lot of from many different countries - is perhaps at its peak across traditional and indie publications. As a result, the style of horror and the themes it produces is incredibly diverse and varied.

“Most horror story writers don’t know where to go with it” is very much against the grain with what such a wide genre is seeing right now. Certainly in written form.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I think we need to be very careful in defining horror. Right now, horror writing - something I read a lot of from many different countries - is perhaps at its peak across traditional and indie publications. As a result, the style of horror and the themes it produces is incredibly diverse and varied.

“Most horror story writers don’t know where to go with it” is very much against the grain with what such a wide genre is seeing right now. Certainly in written form.

As far as I am concerned, Horror is not as broad of a genre as other people think it is. Not everything that's scary is horror.

Some people even think that anything (except obvious comedy) with vampires, werewolves or zombies is horror by default, when most of it actually isn't.

Some people think gore and splatter are part of the horror genre, even thought those are different genres. They can overlap, if done well (like in the second half of Bloodborne), but they still are distinctly different.

Just because there are people who label their art as horror, doesn't mean it actually is.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I think we need to be very careful in defining horror. Right now, horror writing - something I read a lot of from many different countries - is perhaps at its peak across traditional and indie publications. As a result, the style of horror and the themes it produces is incredibly diverse and varied.

“Most horror story writers don’t know where to go with it” is very much against the grain with what such a wide genre is seeing right now. Certainly in written form.

I should have specified this as writers in computer games (and movies often as well).

I recall playing a game called Through The Woods, which was awful in many regards (the controls and AI in particular), but the worst thing about it was the blatant ending. Another horror adventure called The Cursed Forest was super well done, but then everything was ruined by a disappointing ending (I went, "What? That's it??").

That's what I meant when I wrote “Most horror story writers don’t know where to go with it”.

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

As far as I am concerned, Horror is not as broad of a genre as other people think it is. Not everything that's scary is horror.

Some people even think that anything (except obvious comedy) with vampires, werewolves or zombies is horror by default, when most of it actually isn't.

Some people think gore and splatter are part of the horror genre, even thought those are different genres. They can overlap, if done well (like in the second half of Bloodborne), but they still are distinctly different.

Just because there are people who label their art as horror, doesn't mean it actually is.

Horror has evolved beyond just scary - partly because people have become harder to scare in this medium. It's very much an umbrella for lots of sub genres. There's a lot of very good articles and essays on the subject and I follow a lot of auhors globally who talk about it in greater depth than I can. I will say most of it falls under the radar because of the Stephen King effect and the lack of visibility in bricks and mortar bookshops for the genre. It's one of the richest, yet overlooked genres right now and also one of the most blooming in terms of horror from others countries (Mexico, Japan, Sweden, Poland to name but a few)

49 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I should have specified this as writers in computer games (and movies often as well).

I recall playing a game called Through The Woods, which was awful in many regards (the controls and AI in particular), but the worst thing about it was the blatant ending. Another horror adventure called The Cursed Forest was super well done, but then everything was ruined by a disappointing ending (I went, "What? That's it??").

That's what I meant when I wrote “Most horror story writers don’t know where to go with it”.

You are prob right on movies. I don't watch enough to have an opinion. Games I'm a bit ambivalent on. There's a very good book on horror in games right now which I'm hoping to get to explore it more (Ants to Zombies)

[Doam.8305]

From the get go Gw2 is targeted at a broader and younger audience than its predecessor Gw1. Your not going to see Afflicted or people with four eye holes to hell on their faces. Heck Gw2 Gw2 necro minions are more fleshy and pink while the Gw1 is more something that would give small children nightmares especially the maxed out versions. Basically they made a line when making gw2 and they aren't about to cross it to keep that broad appeal for everyone vibe.  Even the skill names and classes are more family friendly especially Mesmers who were more nightmarish and psychological the type of person who'd use their magic to give you a lobotomy.

[Ashen.2907]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:54 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Just playing through Orr again, and once more I am confronted with the fact of how much potential was wasted here. There is literally nothing that really gives you the chills.

The only remotely scary moment was the Estate of Decay story mission where the undead Mesmer was hosting a party, turning the living into one of them.

Apart from that, we only have karate zombies and necromancers roaming the lands. *yawn*

If we ever get to visit another "domain of the undead", I hope we will feel the chill -- creepy baddies (e.g. vampire lords/ladies), scary story-telling, and some cool quests (e.g., getting infected and having to find a cure).

Until then, walking through Orr will remain a disappointment, though the ambience is really nice and the undead also look creepy enough.

100% agreed. As much as I love Orr despite the lack you point out, it could have been so much better.

[Doggie.3184]

There's a shortage of Horror MMOs for some reason. Only ones I can recall are "Requiem Bloodymare" and "The Secret World" and they're ultra old naow.

At least there are attempts here with Orr, HoT and now SOTO (and the tiny Jormag story window). Also one reason I liked GW1 Cantha so much but it's become all bright and political.

PS: I mentioned before Zhaitan shoulda got his own map like the other dragons:

Spoiler

"Dragon's Grave:" Where after he's sliced in half his still alive upper body crashlands and creates a crater where he crawls underground leaving a trail of undead behind to defend him in a Dragon's Stand type spooky cave map.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Doggie.3184