Are we really comfortable paying for unfinished expansions?

[XenesisII.1540]

You guys not enjoying the preordered early access expansion? 🤭

[Vayne.8563]

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I would gladly pay more if the "Update" had actual content. Any QoL updates, balances patches, and new profession weapons aren't playable content but rather reworks or QoL updates.

You're missing the point entirely.  It has nothing to do with paying more or paying less. It has to do with what you get for what you're paying. I don't know about you, but I paid $25 for the expansion.  That means, each single part of the expansion costs me $6.25.  You talk about a worthy quarterly update as if this exists in a vaccuum, but it doesn't. It's part of something larger.  This update was absolutely $6.25 worth of content to me. 

Do you know how many people buy a WoW expansion for $50, play it for 3 months, gear up to max and then stop playing for the next year or two?   That's $50 and $15 a month for the second 2 months, or $80 and they're bored and say the same thing. I know this because I have two sons that buy every WoW expansion, play it, get bored and that's it. In the mean time, they're not having so much fun from where I'm standing.

Sure I'd rather have new stuff to do every day forever, it's true. But different expansions give you different things. But these updates break down to $6.25 each.  That's what the expansion costs divided by four.  Where I live that's a large cup of cappuccino from a bakery.  It's nothing. 

I agree, more content is better, but more content in the past has left us with very long content droughts. Not my favorite situation either.  People complained on this forum about PoF and not having anything to do 30 days after they beat it.  And if you're not working on legendary armor, and you're not running the challenge mode strike missions and you're not playing with the new weapon combos, and you don't care about taking off on your skyscale in combat or using fireballs with it, or riding updrafts and leylines on it,  for you're not doing wizard's vault tasks, sure you may feel that way,. but we were talking about value.

And the vast majority of people I talk to, feel like they either have their money's worth or, by the end of the expansion cycle, will most likely have their money's worth.  This is less than two months of WOW or Final Fantasy for four patches.

[Rauderi.8706]

Answer: Yes. 

Because if the expansion released in a finished state, y'all would locust it down in a month and complain there's nothing to do. This is a lesson we've known as far back as WoW's mistake with Burning Crusade. 

[Lucius.2140]

3 hours ago, Quirin.1076 said:

Gw2 Release Date - August 28, 2012
HoT - First Expansion - October 23, 2015
PoF - Second Expansion - September 22, 2017
EoD - Third Expansion - February 28, 2022
SoTO - Fourth Expansion - August 22, 2023

That gap between PoF and EoD was fatal, still don't know why IBS wasn't an expansion.

[Ashen.2907]

16 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

The value of £20 is set by the economy, not to a individual player.

No, the price is set by the producer according to their perception of their needs and general economic conditions, value is determined by the individual for himself. Value, particularly when discussing luxury goods, is subjective.

[kharmin.7683]

4 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

But that don't change the simple fact, GW2 isnt being abandoned. It just isn't generating enough money lol. That's just the simplicity of the situation. 

On what do you base this simple fact? 

[Puck.3697]

46 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

On what do you base this simple fact? 

The fact gw2s makes 14million a quarter. And it being ncsofts lowest earner, 

The fact its team dedicated to the game is so small they can't work on more then 1 project. 

140 job axes in PoF. 

Apart from this, games don't tend to mess with games monetization etc etc unless it's not working. 

Its pretty obvious, GW2 isnt generating enough money. Regardless if you think it should be, its not reaching the expectations set upon it. 

[Puck.3697]

58 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

No, the price is set by the producer according to their perception of their needs and general economic conditions, value is determined by the individual for himself. Value, particularly when discussing luxury goods, is subjective.

Lol. No, if anet thought they could get more money for their expansions they would, the games extremely cheap when compared to other mmorpgs box prices. And jts obvious why. 

It isnt set according to their needs, if their needs wrre being met, the games team wouldn't of been axed to a skeleton crew, and content wouldn't be shrinking lol. 

It's very obvious anet opted into reducing content development considerably to reduce the price of their game. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 hour ago, Lucius.2140 said:

That gap between PoF and EoD was fatal, still don't know why IBS wasn't an expansion.

the irony is, it wouldn't take much to flesh it out and make it a full expansion, then sell it to new players who are just joining. its literally just missing elite specialisations and a proper finale. they could also rework drms into something more viable like five-player strikes, as i've suggested before.

 

if they didn't want to deal with the balance implications of new specs, they could introduce new weapons and treat it as a mini-expansion.

 

unfortunately arenanet's allergy to touching past content has begun to severely harm the game's long-term sustainability. we're being left with a tangled mess of unfinished things that new players are subjected to, which we shrugged off because at least it was new content at the time (and not to mention, free).

Edited November 18, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Vayne.8563]

4 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

The fact gw2s makes 14million a quarter. And it being ncsofts lowest earner, 

The fact its team dedicated to the game is so small they can't work on more then 1 project. 

140 job axes in PoF. 

Apart from this, games don't tend to mess with games monetization etc etc unless it's not working. 

Its pretty obvious, GW2 isnt generating enough money. Regardless if you think it should be, its not reaching the expectations set upon it. 

The amount of assumptions you're making in your so-called facts is astounding.

Every single indication indicates Anet is working on another project, including advertisements for that project. 

Guild Wars 2 is NOT NcSofts worst performing game, also by a long shot, but there computer games make very little compared to their mobile games. That doesn't mean theyre abandoning all computer games.

As for you don't mess with monetization unless it's not working?  This is completely 100% factually wrong. Companies that have working monetization never stop and say, yep, that's enough money, let's not make more. That almost never happens. Companies that were working fine and enjoying record profits STILL mess with monetization. I don't think you know as much as business as  you think you do.

What's pretty obvious here, pretty much the only thing that is, is that you have a pet theory and you're willing to interpret all facts to support it. 

[robertthebard.8150]

21 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

I see you're still in denial.

Anet is working on an unreal engine 5 game, rumored to be a new MMO. Obviously most of the staff is working on that. Yes we are getting milked with a skeleton crew to fund what might one day replace GW2 as their only title.

"Anet isn't going to kill their only game on the market"? Please, they already did just that with GW1. Why wouldn't they do that again?

How much money are they making on that game currently?  Wait, it's "rumored to be a new MMO", so they're not making any money on it yet, since it's not on the market, right?

Of note, the last time I checked, GW1 is still up and running, although I don't really know how populated it is, or how much, or if, it's generating any income.

[Scar.1793]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:39 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

SotO is 20 bucks. What did you expect? 

That not even 2 hours of work here. Even on a low paying job. 

20 euros is simply not much money and we get what we pay for. 

Remember that most games are 70 euros + now. 

Look at the money blizzard is asking for its games. 

It's unreasonable to expect the world for this little money.

 

Your comparison is off.

Just as example, a WoW expansion (base edition if you want to compare to base SotO) is 49.99€.

Are you saying that by missing ~30€, you can justify having a half baked expansion that is more of a small DLC than actual expansion ?

Yes WoW has more manpower due to the playerbase being way higher and the subfee, but I don’t remember HoT or PoF being bare bones at release and having to wait months of patch cycles to actually get the « expansion » features.

To be honest this doesn’t look good for the long run. Since new games will keep coming with better and fresher gameplay.

If anyone want GW2 to do well it has step up its game. But Anet abandoning GW2 then failing on their old « secret » project… then coming back to GW2 their tail between their legs… it just shows the lack of passion/enthusiasm by the company to evolve with their flagship game.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Scar.1793

[Ashantara.8731]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You're missing the point entirely.  It has nothing to do with paying more or paying less. It has to do with what you get for what you're paying.

My previous post should tell you that I do not miss the point at all. I just stated that, if for ANet money was the issue (more money = hire more devs = produce a better quantity), I'd gladly pay more than 25 bucks if it would guarantee me a proper amount of content (quality- and quantity-wise). This last update was a joke.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[firedragon.8953]

I think it's fine. The expansion isn't overly priced in my opinion. The content does seem a bit lighter, but there is also other stuff happening such as fixing bugs and updating older content, introducing new weapons to professions, consistent balance updates, future guild hall pvp, more stat selectable exotic gear vendors, etc. I feel the devs are more engaged with the content they are releasing. If that means the amount of content is a bit "less" then I'm fine as long as they continue polishing current content. Tyria is already a HUGE world and I am looking forward to more narrative and gameplay systems (specifically player driven ones like guild pvp, etc.) that will just make the game feel more polished.

I mean, it is a live service game, so I don't mind paying a yearly cost of $20 or whatever to play the newest story content, etc. while still enjoying everything else.

[Morvran.8265]

2 hours ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

How much money are they making on that game currently?  Wait, it's "rumored to be a new MMO", so they're not making any money on it yet, since it's not on the market, right?

Of note, the last time I checked, GW1 is still up and running, although I don't really know how populated it is, or how much, or if, it's generating any income.

What's your point? I don't get it.

[Morvran.8265]

9 hours ago, Lucius.2140 said:

That gap between PoF and EoD was fatal, still don't know why IBS wasn't an expansion.

Because they didn't want to continue GW2 after PoF so there was no expansion planned. IBS was quickly thrown together after the layoffs happened and NCSoft forced Anet to keep working on GW2.

[Balsa.3951]

10 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You guys not enjoying the preordered early access expansion? 🤭

yeah that's how it feels.

the start was good but not it feels like a kickstarter expansion.

i can't complain got good years of the game tho. but the shrinking effort is showing.

but nothing better than gw2 on the market now so i can understand them for not feeling the need to push harder

[Tanuki.4603]

How can anyone defend last patch btw? This was the worst update in GW2 history since LWS1. With the least content. I get it, you care about the game, I once did too but we cannot be content with what we're getting and being asked to pay for it. We used to get more regular, great updates for free. Arenanet is dropping the ball and we should expect some sort of standard or we will keep getting less. This is the gaming industry. If companies get good press from fanboys like you they never have a reason to change

Edited November 18, 2023 by Tanuki.4603

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

My previous post should tell you that I do not miss the point at all. I just stated that, if for ANet money was the issue (more money = hire more devs = produce a better quantity), I'd gladly pay more than 25 bucks if it would guarantee me a proper amount of content (quality- and quantity-wise). This last update was a joke.

This update wasn't a joke, you just don't like it. As far as the idea that hiring more devs automatically makes things come out faster, you're laboring under a serious misconception.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

We have winner for the most deluded fanboy in the thread

I'm sorry, which of the factual things that I've said do you have evidence for. You know, one liners without proof are so easy.  You could go and look at the Anet page and see the positions they've advertised for. Reddit has spoken about them, even though they're not strictly Guild Wars 2 related. But you know, it's easy to make stuff up and use fanboy as a derogatory name.

They told me I was a fan boy before EoD came out when they said there'd never be another expansion. They also called me a fan boy when I said that EoD wasnt' the end of the line. It's nice that you think that fanboy has any meaning other than I disagree with some of the obviously misinformed posts that pop up from time to time.  People have been talking nonsense about the game dying since a couple of months after launch when they introduced ascended armor.

Your comment doesn't really say anything. It offers no proof. It makes no comment. I'm okay with that.

[Balsa.3951]

16 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm sorry, which of the factual things that I've said do you have evidence for. You know, one liners without proof are so easy.  You could go and look at the Anet page and see the positions they've advertised for. Reddit has spoken about them, even though they're not strictly Guild Wars 2 related. But you know, it's easy to make stuff up and use fanboy as a derogatory name.

They told me I was a fan boy before EoD came out when they said there'd never be another expansion. They also called me a fan boy when I said that EoD wasnt' the end of the line. It's nice that you think that fanboy has any meaning other than I disagree with some of the obviously misinformed posts that pop up from time to time.  People have been talking nonsense about the game dying since a couple of months after launch when they introduced ascended armor.

Your comment doesn't really say anything. It offers no proof. It makes no comment. I'm okay with that.

well they where right about no new expansion after eod.

and anet is selling living world now

[Vayne.8563]

43 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

well they where right about no new expansion after eod.

and anet is selling living world now

Actually, the new expansions are neither like the old expansions exactly, nor are the like the living world. You can call it what you want. It's just a label mate.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

Its also the community thats the problem. They whine for the price being too high. (While imo path of firers mounts feature is already worth the 50 euro, the mounts made and make all next expansions so much easyer) So they make it cheap(er) for the ppl that dont want to spend on an expansion to hurt their own income. Anet just has to make an expansion 50 euro. OR 20 euro for each part. 20 gives 1/4. And by the time part 2/4 releases they have to pay 20 again. So in the end they paid the same as ppl who spend 80 euro for it. The reward for paying 80 in the beginning is the 4k gems that comes with it. 
 

you all expect anet for ‘good’ content. But dont want to pay the full price. Thats because of the low 20 euro expansion. And the players that get punished are the ones that pay 50 or 80 euro. 
you dont want your lovely game go in maintenance mode. Then pay the right value. 
 

maybe anet have to ADD a new currency for exclusive content/skins that can only be paid with real money. And not with gems. Maybe unfair. But they dont have to destroy their game because ppl say 30 euro is too much. Whats the price of a pizza? €9,50. 
 

btw 20 euro is the price for an Unfinished expansion. The unfinished expansion is faulth of the ppl who dont want to spend more then 25 euro. So the ppl who paid 50 or 80 get lower value content for what they paid. The ppl who spend 25 for it get what they paid for. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490

[Puck.3697]

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

What's pretty obvious here, pretty much the only thing that is, is that you have a pet theory and you're willing to interpret all facts to support it

Lol. 

They tried to give up entirely on the game during PoF. 

They had to drop every project and start a expansion hald way through doing so. 

Living world story got hacked because they said they can't manage both due to team limitations. 

Soto comes out with basically 0 content. 

22.7 billion KW, is 14 million pounds. Lol blizzard takes 173million per quarter. Lol considering most consider WoW to be falling, and the games constantly named "dead" the fact your defending this games earnings are laughable. 

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, Scar.1793 said:

Your comparison is off.

Just as example, a WoW expansion (base edition if you want to compare to base SotO) is 49.99€.

Are you saying that by missing ~30€, you can justify having a half baked expansion that is more of a small DLC than actual expansion

Gw2s quarterly earnings are 22 billion KW, (14 million) 

WoW quarterly earnings are 173million per quarter. 

No, we are saying this is what 150million pounds makes difference wise, WoW is a sub based game to play. Gw2 is not. Lol. But ignore that if you really like. 

A b2p game, without a sub should be more expensive then a sub based games box price to begin with. Because of that Lol. 

Hence why. NON sub based games in 2023 drop at £80 like hogwarts now we have a store unlike that game so prolly should be that extremely high. But I think people miss the fact

B2p games are nowadays £70+ at launches. 

Zelda has a 4 year old game that still sells for more money then gw2 prices its brand new box prices. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Puck.3697