Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Thief

[Lightsbane.9012]

harrowing storm is immensely hard to land in wvw.  it feels like it was meant to hit stationary targets.  i like the weapon as it gives me a way to use my frostfang, but harrowing storm really needs the axes to teleport to the target not to the player casting them, otherwise they simply will not hit the target.

 

the dual skills for both axe/dagger and axe/pistol need to do something other than bring the axes back to you or shoot them at your target.  i'm not seeing much use of the off hand weapon in the dual skills so far.  not to mention both animation s for a/d and a/p look very similar.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Lightsbane.9012

[Doggie.3184]

3 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

I thought they said it was going to be AoE?  Is it literally just the fan of axes attack that cleaves?  What about dual skills and axe/pistol?

180 radius. also the radius of new dust strike. u.u

power axe also gets no benefit from deadeye's malicious stealth attack

Edited November 28, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[whooot.5784]

For spvp, this is by far the worst weapon set ever released.. Bad, cluncky as hell, do no damage cause the tracking is completly useless, can be dodged without even dodge lul, just have to run away and axes won't barely touch the oppent. Axes are slow, entierly projectile, cost way to much inti for the damage it does.

Idk, I don't really like it, I was waiting this weapon to be released in order to decide if I'll buy the new Soto, well, this is an hard pass for me. Soto for thiefs is a complete joke honnestly. This is absolutly NOT worth it.

[TheDasktragon.5279]

Hi Anet devs!

I really love the concept of axe thief!
I just have a few things to point out:

♦ The throws are a bit slow so people can strafe them too easily.
♦ The 2nd ability is difficult to use because of it requiring to be close to a creature despite being a ranged weapon (to get optimal damage).
♦ The returning axes reveal you if you hit with them after using Axe 3 + Dagger 5

I think these are the only issues with the axe.
I think people saying its too clunky is most likely due to how slow the axes travel.

[Sash.1940]

• Thief Axes can fall off the cliff/terrain and once they are recalled with Skill 3 they dont do damage.

How to recreate: Get into PvP Lobby and close to Indestructible golem. Do auto-attacks or Skill 2, they will do damage and you can visually clearly see them how they fall off the cliff. If you pan camera above your character you can see them rotating below the cliff.
Try to recall them with Skill 3 and nothing will happen. Axes will not return, no return animation is displayed and axes will do no damage at all.

• Thief Axes ignore collision/terrain elevation.

How to recreate: Get into PvP lobby and teleport to "Siege training waypoint." Go right from it, close to the stairs going down to soldier spirits.
Target Champion Target Golem -  Heavy. Do auto-attacks or Skill 2, axes wont do any damage and you can visually see them stuck on the rocks/terrain. 
Try to recall them with Skill 3 and they will fly trough the rocks/terrain, hit the target and apply dots.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sash.1940

[PaulPottwal.7239]

I think axe/dagger #3 recalling the axes to your position and not the targets position is a problem. It requires you to be on top of the target which isn't quite possible all the time, especially with targets with small hitboxes. You just have to stand a few steps beside the target or the target moves a bit and 85% of the axes won't land. Leading to no damage at all. The slow on dagger #4 helps a bit with moving targets but doesn't solve the problem. If it is supposed to stay that way axe/dagger #3 would need an immob after the teleport or something else to make sure it lands. But I guess that would be too strong, as the immob would be spammable. Maybe if the skill would teleport you behind the target, as the tooltip states, it could work?

[Nomad.4301]

22 minutes ago, PaulPottwal.7239 said:

think axe/dagger #3 recalling the axes to your position and not the targets position is a problem.

Funnily enough, if you have no target on Axe/Dagger the #3 skill actually just recalls all the axes to your position doing full damage to any target hit, ignoring the entire "teleport" function altogether. I wish the power version also worked like this 🥲.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nomad.4301

[PaulPottwal.7239]

7 minutes ago, Nomad.4301 said:

Funnily enough, if you have no target on Axe/Dagger the #3 skill actually just recalls all the axes to your position doing full damage to any target hit, ignoring the entire "teleport" function altogether. I wish the power version also worked like this 🥲.

That's the point. Why do the condi and the power variant behave differently?

Why can't axe/dagger #3 recall the axes to your targets position like axe/pistol #3 does and why does axe/pistol #3 not recall the axes to your position if there is no target like axe/dagger #3 does? They should just equalize them

[hugo.4705]

OK so here's my feedback for that new weapon: (Through I do think that it lacks utility/elite skills to be like other specs)

Character animations:  The character do throw the axes with some style...

Skills animations: The rotating axes are cool, but it would be cooler if it uses the skin of the axe used.

Mechanics: The mechanics of having skill 1 and 2 throwing projectiles that can then be attracted back to player with skill 3 like magnet... it does sounds like an engie or scrapper gimmick but it is pretty cool for thief. I always struggled to find cool weapon to use as thief. Those rotating axes do remind me of the leggy legendary aetherblade captain for twilight arbor, it is a nice gimmick worthy of an elite spec weapon.

Damages and effects:  Bleeding, poison, torment. A good trio inflicting good damage on the duration. Good potential for condi. The damages are quite good when many axes are deployed and called back.

Yeah. To me it is a nice weapon spec and I will surely use it on my thief. As others specs, needs weapons skill icons.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, itspomf.9523 said:

Had this been a revision to Mirage's axe, I'd have said you were spot on and had a brilliant idea.

Instead, it feels cumbersome, out of place, and like Pistol ... *checks notes* ... v4.0, only this time with even worse general synergy.

dagger offhand forces you to port behind target which behind target is nice...its not generally a good idea for a RANGED WEAPON!....bad idea. identity is what they are going after but this is like a duck thinking its a cat.

pistol offhand and initiative costs are way too kitten high even with trickery which isnt worth it in the end because you lack damage for condi builds.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

feels like the axe being a mainhand only was rushed, shoved as mujch as it could with POSSIBLE synergies in other specs AND dagger and pistol offhand... its not working and stuff like this is going to demand a new offhand as well, its just too clunky to manage as is with dual skills.

power builds on deadeye dont make sense as malicious axe deals poison damage?! what?

[purplefrog.9261]

My thoughts right now is that axe really only works with daredevil or deadeye(and even that is questionable with odd condi combinations, as per the previous post).  The axes when you call them in need to automatically hit your target(s).  The stealth axe 1 when you call it in needs to hit 5 percent harder.  As others have said when you throw axes out they need to go out faster and pistol 4 and 5 are just for show for the power version when they could have modifying effects on your axes, like might generation for instance or more evade frames.  They only weapons you can really pair with them are dagger pistol or shortbow I've found.

Edited November 28, 2023 by purplefrog.9261

[Zacchary.6183]

The damage seems alright per skill, however the weapon is slow. There seems to be a sizable aftercast that's holding it back and the projectile speed is bad. I don't see it working in competitive modes at all because of it. Maybe in pve, but definitely not competitive.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Zacchary.6183

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

18 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

The damage seems alright per skill, however the weapon is slow. There seems to be a sizable aftercast that's holding it back and the projectile speed is bad. I don't see it working in competitive modes at all because of it. Maybe in pve, but definitely not competitive.

until we get people to realize thief is the most misunderstood class, then its going to go nowhere. yes new shiny toys...but its just a façade on the fact that there are still ton of bugs that need to be fixed that have existed for years just to be covered up by bandaids. im aware spaghetti code but at least LOOK into trying. Acrobatics has been busted for years with kitten-all changes.

thief used to be the SCARY class to fight against or be ganked by burst wise...but the bursts we do now just tickles against celestail gear which can hit harder on other classes. its busted as a class and not in the good sense. with more offhands instead of 1 mainhand using dual skills on p / d offhand itll be worth it. mainhand axe isnt going to hold my attention long...yes its going to be touched up on but to what end? anything and everything excels past what thief can do...its just not worth it and im not going to be sucked into playing anets golden child the guardian just for big numbers.

do better than an axe mainhand is all im saying...this is pathetic 

[weed.3761]

As a thief main I'm used to getting the short end of the staff, but nothing is cool or fun about main hand axe. Especially the skill 3 is WAYYY to slow and you need to be blind and deaf to not dodge it in pvp or wvw. Instead of giving us more off-hand weapons to have MORE options, you decided to give us ONLY 2 options (dagger and pistol) which don't have ANY synergies. Dagger skill 4 and 5 and meant for power builds and axe is most definitely a condi way to play it (very original yes) and pistol's smoke combo field has no combos except for useless 1/100000 chance projectile. It feels like thief is still in GW1 and other classes are in GW3. Other classes get insane dodge/block skills or overpowered boons and we get the same 3 condis: bleed, poison and torment. I want to be an assassin a a THIEF not as an Elementalist or Ranger! 

[Eddie.9143]

THEYRE SO SLOW! they work horribly with deadeye. 

[Dextra.8162]

I will just say, wish the axes stayed on the target not spin on ground behind doing nothing.. the 2 skill could be like birds on warhorn for ranger.

also found it odd how i couldnt cleave a person in the water they just spin on top of water like they jesus or something :c

really sad this does nothing for zerg aoe once again :c

 

[Rosabell.4283]

I have a few comments about axe for thief.

I noticed is that the axe skills don't give shadow force when you are a specter spending initiative with axe 2 and 3. This makes it more difficult to recharge your shadow shroud. Another is that the axe is slow and very easy to dodge, making the axe more difficult to play in compensative game modes, when all target has to do is run to avoid being hit, not even dodge. 

The tooltip for a/d 3 says it teleports behind the target, but instead is shadow stepping to the target. Also, why are we teleporting to target with a/d? I understand that dagger 5 is a melee attack, but that is technically the only melee attack since the axe is a ranged weapon. Also, why does the spinning axes return to me and not go straight to the target when using a/d, it makes it even more difficult to hit the target if the target is moving. I personally find it hard as a thief to lock down a target and feel like most of the time I am "setting up" axes, only for them to fly past the person I am targeting. 

I find a condi build is great with the axe, but only on a stationary target, which makes the axe a difficult choice to bring into pvp and/or wvw, with wvw being to game mode I spend most of the time enjoying. 

 

Edit: also forgot to mention that when the axes go off a ledge or something, they follow the ground, so on a tower wall or near a cliff, makes it even more difficult to use axe 3 to hit a target

Edited November 29, 2023 by Rosabell.4283

[Eddie.9143]

i thought anet understood that when thieves go TO their target, it needs to be an instant , so it can be combo'd with cloak n dagger.

[HeliosMagi.9867]

Why is everyone ignoring how good the AoE is? Axe 2 and 3 can hit up to 15 targets,  that's amazing! One of Thief's biggest weaknesses in PvE was a lack of cleave for add phases or swarms of trash mobs, and Axe fills that niche quite nicely.

[BobbyT.7192]

Math time.

So I did some quick calculations and the damage coefficients, I came up with the following (rough math):

• skill 1: 0.80
• skill 2: 0.5 per axe for 1.5 total
• stealth: 1.5

Interestingly, with the dual attacks, not only does it take the conditions properties of the above skills, but the damage coeff as well. Which means the strike damage from 2 uses of skill 2 is actually less then 6 uses of skill 1.  (6x 0.5  vs 6x 0.8)  Of course the time it takes  to max the axes will be depended on the skill used. In theory, you would want 6 axes of the stealth attack for big numbers,  but getting 3 would be a struggle. Damage would seems low but keep in mind that these are 5 target piercing projectiles, and we all know what ANET thinks about piercing attacks for thieves.

[Okaerin.3145]

I don't know why but I can't believe for any reason that after almost 10 years of GW2 going on the Thief can only use 2 weapons on the Off-Hand, at this point even with new weapons the combinations just feel boring and repetitive.

So please, consider adding at least 1 new weapon to Off Hand on Thieves, it's all I ask, even if it is the worst in the game, even if it's a meme, just put a new weapon to use on the Off-Hand, since the Thief can now wield super weird things in the Main-Hand there is no reason to limit the Off-Hand that much over all theese years.

[Bunny.9834]

After playing the other weapons like Warrior staff and Guardian Pistol... this axe feels like an after thought. 

Like really... this is it? 

Since this is beta and there's not even actual art yet for these skills... please redo this whole weapon and give us something else that would give thief actual options like an OFF-HAND weapon (this will give you more options for a 3rd skill for MH sword, dagger, pistol and scepter). Like ooohh maybe an off-hand sword??? anything but this clunky mess of a weapon. 

[agnlaa.7594]

Thief axe gives me the same feeling as mechanist did in the EoD spec beta, which was that the base class wasn't considered at all beyond a cursory nod to the theme. It's bad, like... really, really bad. It's not at all what the class needs or what anyone has been asking for - which is overwhelmingly 'another offhand weapon please.' Coincidentally, I quit playing engi after the boring mess that is mech was pushed out, and I'll probably drop thief if this isn't drastically overhauled. Not just because this is bad, but because it shows a fundamental ignorance (willful or not is irrelevant) of how thief plays and what it needs.

[Dagger.2035]

The Axe doesn't add anything new besides a silly gimmick.  Why doesn't it have a ranged AOE or a non-projectile auto-attack?  Also, the thief relic is still broken after 3 months...