Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Revenant

[Buran.3796]

P E R F E C T I O N

[Ephyr.2175]

Can anyone tell me how this new weapon will be better than the ones already available and in what situations it will have an advantage for each class because somehow I don't see the point of using it.

[draxynnic.3719]

24 minutes ago, Ephyr.2175 said:

Can anyone tell me how this new weapon will be better than the ones already available and in what situations it will have an advantage for each class because somehow I don't see the point of using it.

I think the intent is for heal rev - shield is going to be a more desired offhand for support rev now because of the buffs, and sceptre generates barrier and a few other support effects. Not sure if it will actually beat out the might generation from blasting fire fields with mace, though.

[Phyrak.7260]

For flavour sake; a slight change in condition application on either auto or skill 2 as to be a land version of the trident based on the legend you're in would further cement some theme in the weapon 

[draxynnic.3719]

29 minutes ago, Phyrak.7260 said:

For flavour sake; a slight change in condition application on either auto or skill 2 as to be a land version of the trident based on the legend you're in would further cement some theme in the weapon 

Or, at least, make it work with condi builds as well.

Bonus points: Make the autoattack beam change colour depending on your legend!

[lunaeclipse.6843]

I am unhappy with the weapon as a whole. The weapon as a whole is really only good at one thing: barrier. To me, this really makes the weapon feel really one-dimensional. I like the gimmick of the weapon with the auto attacks 'powering up' but in practice is often really difficult to use as there are often better skills that are needed when simultaneously would also be ideal to use the weapon's mechanics. It also seems like its trying to be a hybrid weapon, but I find its offensive side is incredibly lacking.

Changes I would like to see:

• target cap increases on Skills 2 and 3. Skill 2 in its current design already makes sense to damage enemies in AoE (perhaps adding a secondary strike-damage based Dot on affected enemies if you reach 6 stacks before detonation). Skill 3 should increase damage to all targets struck, not just the tethered target. The pull should remain single target.
• Add ally condition cleanse in some form to the weapon's kit. In my opinion, Sceptre lacks a real identity or reason to use it over Mace especially when considering the Karakosa relic. When used as a support weapon, mace offers a ton of flexibility: 6 blast finishers for a huge amount of utility, a fire field for on demand might blast, and burst healing if you take Karakosa Relic to be able to support while using  non-healing legends (i.e. dwarf for stability). Conversely, Sceptre can only do one thing, although it does it well, which is barrier.
• I dont have much to say about the Auto attack chain, I like it personally. The only thing it leaves me wishing I could use it on allies. This would allow for barrier and might pre stacking before an encounter in PvE or before a push in WvW.

All in all, in it's current iteration I think this weapon 'works' in controllable environments such as Instanced PvE. However in other game modes like WvW it leaves a lot to be desired. Additionally, with its offensive capabilities being lackluster alongside its almost entire focus around barrier, it makes the weapon almost exclusively useful for pure support builds, leaving it overall feeling one-dimensional. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by lunaeclipse.6843

[Kydar Schattendolch.6879]

I dunno, what to do with the scepter. My wish was an ranged suppoer weapon. And we get som mix&match melee-range-weapon, which does not know, where to be.

My suggestion:

Make the auto attack chain 900 range as the other skills. Instead of the "light saber" create an "orb", that's controlled by the movements of the revenant from range. Like a telepath moving stuff. 

Dunno what to do with Skill 3. Reduce upkeep costs to at least 2, maybe even 1. Or remove it in total and make it just a skill with a fix duration of 8-10s.

[phokus.8934]

Skill 3:  Change it to: Wrenching Gaze - Tether to enemies to damage and drag them closer.

Keep it as a -3 upkeep and scrap the auto-attack hit requirement.

[Narrenwinter.2637]

The description text (tool tip?) for Mace Scepter Skill 3 Otherworldly Bond is just way too long.

It does not fit into my screen, the top part is cropped off. It's even worse for the german version (even more text).

Please consider a different layout (enemy and ally versions side by side?) for the description text or shorten it altogether.

 

Edit: I couldn't even see that this skill has an upkeep cost, lmao. Pls fix!

Edited November 29, 2023 by Narrenwinter.2637

[Nokaon.4603]

-Increase damage anet, don't make this hammer 2.0, let us pve/pvp/wvw'ers have fun with it

-increase attack speed

-reduce amount of attacks needed for the tether to 3 (nobody got time for 6  successful auto attacks)

-increase range on the auto attacks to 600 at least (its a scepter not a mace)

-make tether more interesting as you build it up in wvw nobody cares about you at all and dont consider you a threat when they're below 6 stacks.

-skill 2 needing LoS does not feel very good at all

thats my thoughts so far at least.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Nokaon.4603

[Kris Knives.8513]

The scepter feels very bad, has no wow factor and lacks a strong identity.  Nothing seems to connect to anything.

The negative:
1.)  Nothing synergizes
The weapon has no identity.   The unique element here is the tether but it doesn't have any connection to the auto-attack or 2 attack skills nor any meaningful synergy with the rest of the revenant.

2.)  Visual Noise
As a rule the bigger and more intrusive the effect, the bigger impact it should have.  Big visual draw the eye and should therefor be large effects that take priority.  The tether here doesn't seem to have a big enough effect, particularly on allies, to justify its visual noise.

3.)  It is not fun, nor impactful.
I spent only a minimal amount of time on this one, I saw no reason to stop using staff and start using this for support.

I rarely say this but I'm in the total rework camp.  I'd love to see this weapon redesigned around a new core mechanic.  If they are keeping the tether it needs something special.  I'd like to see the pay off for the tether be summoning a spirit that provides an AoE buff/debuff effect based on the target which then performs some kind of attack when you use you #2 attack.  I feel like that would be both uniquely rev and properly impactful.

Additionally since the tether is draining a good chuck of energy it would be great if you got an extra pip of energy while auto-attacking.

4.)  The sword visuals are bad
I've heard people suggest this should be more like a whip and I strongly agree.

The positive:
1.)  The auto attack is okay.

2.)  Being able to spam weakness on 2 synergizes well with Dwarven Battle Training.

3.)  Tether offers some CC potential.

Overall:
I strong dislike this weapon and it is design does not really show any unrealized promise that I can see.  It doesn't seem to have strong synergy with any elite and it is high tether cost makes it particularly bad for Herald despite the their many upkeep traits.

[arazoth.7290]

•SCEPTER•  I will say it again

-auto attacks: Should have barrier spread on all 3 auto attacks. while each auto attack grants 1 might. It is still a chain attack, so each auto attack chain does more damage. 

Make each auto attack grant 1 stack for empowering and not only on last chain hit.

Make it 600-900 range auto attacks with more fluent animations because they are slow for a 0,5 second cast.

-Weapon Skill 2: Make this 5 energy instead of 10 energy. It's little bit much for a 2nd weapon skill.

-Weapon skill 3: The upkeep for the weapon is little too much. 3 upkeep => 2 upkeep.

It requires atm 6 auto attacks. Make it so when the chain is applied it also gains passively every 1 second, 1 stack.

 

This way if you keep ranged, it takes longer to activate Outworldly bond and if you do auto attacks, you get the stacks faster. This would already make it more fluent/faster.

[Diremongoose.1326]

From a primarily WvW perspective:

- Six autoattacks is an unreasonable requirement for anything. Even six hits from multiple targets to create charges is pushing it. Maybe put the effect on a large cool-down and have autoattacks reduce it per-hit

- The bond needs to do more to the target while active - it costs 3 pips/s so it needs to be as useful as activated skills every few seconds. A debuff for the enemy and damage reduction/barrier/other. NOT might. More might is generated by the Mace more quickly.

- Make the bond beam do something interesting to those caught in the path between the Rev and the target to allow interesting positional play with allies. This effect could change with different legends.

-skill 2 is fun on golems but in WvW it’s constantly blocked or evaded and does nothing. Make the initial cast unblockable but stick around as an AoE

-add at least one combo finisher. Ideally a blast, to make it competitive with mace

 

I can’t even comment on how much barrier it produces because of how difficult it is to use on other players.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Diremongoose.1326

[Yasai.3549]

Scepter 3 is way to unwieldy to use in a practical scenario. Either:

1. 3 Upkeep only. Can recast after 2s. If I want to keep the target tethered, it's my choice, or I can yank it to end it. 

OR 

2. Tether, and need 6 hits from the Revenant,  to charge up. I say hits, not auto attacks.

Both is unnecessarily heavy of a condition for something other weapons can do in 1 button. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Angesombre.4630]

2 hours ago, Diremongoose.1326 said:

add at least one combo finisher. Ideally a blast

It's true that since EoD dragon mainly the combo is not crazy either, a good one with the alliance.

[Shagie.7612]

17 hours ago, InvaderJim.7023 said:

over a distance of 1600 or more for the full duration of 1,5 mins.

It's 1200. Actually more like 1190, as Phase Traversal/Spear is still within range when it breaks but if you inch back ever so slightly it's out of range as well, but it's pixels worth of distance.

A 3 upkeep tether having a 30% leeway on the range isn't that busted, especially when it's not doing damage and can't be weapon swapped during it, and Rev has a total of one utility skill that can hit from that far (Vindi elite spear).

Really don't think that matters that much.

[Jin.8501]

Not everything needs to be ranged always, keep it strictly melee like it is now (auto attack). Gunsaber was already ruined due to ranged complaints. Not this one too. 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think the intent is for heal rev - shield is going to be a more desired offhand for support rev now because of the buffs, and sceptre generates barrier and a few other support effects. Not sure if it will actually beat out the might generation from blasting fire fields with mace, though.

I mean herald generates might just standing around. Adding another upkeep requirement in a weapon definitely won't relieve the pressure of maintenance costs on Herald though.

[Squigglez.1236]

I barely even bothered testing this one, the tether just gives some boons, and mace 2+3 already gives might and doesn't risk sacrificing other maintained skills, and herald/renegade already have a method to generate might. I just wanted to post what I say, and probably will continue to say, every time targeting allies in this game sucks. The game wasn't made with that requirement in mind and there have been no changes that make it less unwieldy. Having a single skill that requires ally target means this is worse than playing specter.

[Phyb.6704]

1 hour ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I mean herald generates might just standing around. Adding another upkeep requirement in a weapon definitely won't relieve the pressure of maintenance costs on Herald though.

With change to herald 7% per upkeep skill. If we could have 6 upkeep up at once thats 42% dmg buff with herald + scepter. But 5 upkeep skills is the max. So letting scepters upkeep also contrib kinda kills the whole point when you max out either way at 5 upkeeps skills and 35% dmg buff. That was probably the idea to keep buffing herald dmg but it doesnt work due to 5 skills limit. 
Note that if you use scepter upkeep and a upkeep like shiros or the dwarf hammers.... thats 27% dmg bonus. 20% + 7%. 
The problem is that it just doesnt do very much damage and is a support weapon so none of that is worth much.

Given the above and the focus on support I would probably try to run herald for the dmg boost and have the auras so I then have zero need for ally target 3. 

It really needs a rework tbh. 
Add a faster rate of invul stacks on skill 3 for enemys. This lets you synergy with battle scars at mele range for self sustain. 
The skill 3 ally is pointless when its so support focused your running herald most likely. 

Skill 1 needs might removed. Rev generates might easily as core, ren and herald. 
Give the 2nd and third hits barrier that ONLY applys to the rev. Its a power and healing power weapon. For self sustain we need something since by taking this you are not ranged, have battle scars or have the dmg to kill stuff very fast. We need to survive in mele range.



 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I mean herald generates might just standing around. Adding another upkeep requirement in a weapon definitely won't relieve the pressure of maintenance costs on Herald though.

Might actually make handling Glint easier - one issues herald has is that if you use the actives of the facets you might not have enough pips of upkeep left to trigger your traits, while having an upkeep skill on your weapon allows a bit of margin for error there.

[Aeolus.3615]

idk if people said this but wand skill 3 can bork up quite easilly:

- w/o target still activates and consumes anergy pips.

- Sometimes on target looses link but keeps activated and still uses pip degen.

- can be used on minipets

-  failing to cast on target due elevation but still activating and consumes energy pips

 

Can the animation of autos be a  red whip based on elmentalist wand rather a weird beam???

Pros: impressed with the balance of the wand out of the box.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, ohericoseo.4316 said:

With change to herald 7% per upkeep skill. If we could have 6 upkeep up at once thats 42% dmg buff with herald + scepter. But 5 upkeep skills is the max. So letting scepters upkeep also contrib kinda kills the whole point when you max out either way at 5 upkeeps skills and 35% dmg buff. That was probably the idea to keep buffing herald dmg but it doesnt work due to 5 skills limit. 
Note that if you use scepter upkeep and a upkeep like shiros or the dwarf hammers.... thats 27% dmg bonus. 20% + 7%. 
The problem is that it just doesnt do very much damage and is a support weapon so none of that is worth much.

Given the above and the focus on support I would probably try to run herald for the dmg boost and have the auras so I then have zero need for ally target 3. 

It really needs a rework tbh. 
Add a faster rate of invul stacks on skill 3 for enemys. This lets you synergy with battle scars at mele range for self sustain. 
The skill 3 ally is pointless when its so support focused your running herald most likely. 

Skill 1 needs might removed. Rev generates might easily as core, ren and herald. 
Give the 2nd and third hits barrier that ONLY applys to the rev. Its a power and healing power weapon. For self sustain we need something since by taking this you are not ranged, have battle scars or have the dmg to kill stuff very fast. We need to survive in mele range.



 

 

nty, your nerfing it into a self sustain only and not support. What you say won't make difference to ur current sustain with it, it will stay the same. The only difference is that you proposed a nerf by no longer allies, it won't give more self barrier... bc they don't like real tanks

[Phyb.6704]

1 minute ago, arazoth.7290 said:

nty, your nerfing it into a self sustain only and not support. What you say won't make difference to ur current sustain with it, it will stay the same. The only difference is that you proposed a nerf by no longer allies, it won't give more self barrier... bc they don't like real tanks

You read wrong. First swing still gives barrier to allies. No change It would be the 2nd and 3rd that only give it to the rev. Talking about changing the 2nd and 3rd swings. Not the first swing. The problem is that sword gives vulnerability stacks for synergy with battle scars which does a lot in solo play. I do think attack 3 needs to give more vulnerability to help with survival in solo play and to buff the ally teather for group play. Personally I think the might on the 2nd swing and nothing on the 3rd is kinda bad. I want more options. 
 

 

[arazoth.7290]

14 minutes ago, ohericoseo.4316 said:

You read wrong. First swing still gives barrier to allies. No change It would be the 2nd and 3rd that only give it to the rev. Talking about changing the 2nd and 3rd swings. Not the first swing. The problem is that sword gives vulnerability stacks for synergy with battle scars which does a lot in solo play. I do think attack 3 needs to give more vulnerability to help with survival in solo play and to buff the ally teather for group play. Personally I think the might on the 2nd swing and nothing on the 3rd is kinda bad. I want more options. 
 

 

I read right, you didn't include when you wrote rework on auto attack that the first hit should now instead do barrier, you only wrote it for 2nd and 3rd.

So it would still be a nerf since the amount of barrier generated won't be higher for balancing tankiness issue. And now same time you lose might.

I agree on giving barrier on all 3 auto attacks spread but to allies also. And same for might on the 3. Make the stacking start at each auto attack and not only the 3rd giving 3, spread it.