Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Revenant

[Esufer.8762]

The Scepter is a really fun playstyle in groups, but incredibly useless solo due to non-existant power scaling.
I love the playstyle of whacking things to provide boons + barrier to your team, and the tether is really nice and visible (although sometimes it just disappears, especially when moving around keeps - it stays active, you just can't see it.)

I'm a little concerned the might is... completely unhinged, especially if you're packing any boon duration at all. Looking forward to running this on a heal vindi, wish I had a reason to use it on a hybrid bruiser/heal vindi.

[Nokaon.4603]

37 minutes ago, Esufer.8762 said:

The Scepter is a really fun playstyle in groups, but incredibly useless solo due to non-existant power scaling.
I love the playstyle of whacking things to provide boons + barrier to your team, and the tether is really nice and visible (although sometimes it just disappears, especially when moving around keeps - it stays active, you just can't see it.)

I'm a little concerned the might is... completely unhinged, especially if you're packing any boon duration at all. Looking forward to running this on a heal vindi, wish I had a reason to use it on a hybrid bruiser/heal vindi.

idk tbh, i did see a herald mess up a power vindi yesterday with scepter, and that vindi wasn't a noob either.

it just feels weird in general, but atm at least it has potential with heralds kit for dps purposes, but im still on the rework train.

the herald was using scepter/sword and staff fyi.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nokaon.4603

[Iustitian.9176]

- Skill 3: Toolbox is too big (heigh) for the screen. We need tooltips with 2 columns to see all information.

[Angesombre.4630]

Everyone's talking about herald and vindicator with the sceptre. I think it's a shame that no effort has been made to make it more useful with renegat, which could be a better heal or alacrity support.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

37 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

Everyone's talking about herald and vindicator with the sceptre. I think it's a shame that no effort has been made to make it more useful with renegat, which could be a better heal or alacrity support.

I mean the barrier is so oppressive that you can make a heal ren build. Spent 5 mins in full harrier... perma aoe alac, fury, prot, and 20-25ish might (would be 25 all the time if scepter 3 wasnt so pricy). Only issue is regen. It's there, just not perma. Would be nice if the tablet pulsed regen or scepter 2 did a few seconds. Also has access to stab, resistance, and aegis.

Don't really need any other boons, but we're so used to every support just vomiting out an entire boon bar so it seems underwhelming. Would also be nice if they made Soul cleave's icd to 1/4s and balanced out the numbers, I hate the 1s icd. Rest is fine, just gotta use a brain to play it.

Edited November 30, 2023 by UncreativeGreen.2019

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I mean the barrier is so oppressive that you can make a heal ren build. Spent 5 mins in full harrier... perma aoe alac, fury, prot, and 20-25ish might (would be 25 all the time if scepter 3 wasnt so pricy). Only issue is regen. It's there, just not perma. Would be nice if the tablet pulsed regen or scepter 2 did a few seconds. Also has access to stab, resistance, and aegis.

Don't really need any other boons, but we're so used to every support just vomiting out an entire boon bar so it seems underwhelming. Would also be nice if they made Soul cleave's icd to 1/4s and balanced out the numbers, I hate the 1s icd. Rest is fine, just gotta use a brain to play it.

They could give tablet on their already pulsing heal also regen boon yes. Or what if staff as support core weapon applied more regen to cover it?

Soul cleave 1 sec icd is high yes, when there wasn't an icd it was too strong. But on 1/4 sec it's easier to balance numbers. 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Might actually make handling Glint easier - one issues herald has is that if you use the actives of the facets you might not have enough pips of upkeep left to trigger your traits, while having an upkeep skill on your weapon allows a bit of margin for error there.

The amount you actually need to upkeep as a support herald is very minimal to get 6 pips going. I don't get how this is something people struggle with. The upkeep on the weapon actually throws a lot of wrenches in support builds on its own.

[Phyb.6704]

13 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

The Scepter is a really fun playstyle in groups, but incredibly useless solo due to non-existant power scaling.
I love the playstyle of whacking things to provide boons + barrier to your team, and the tether is really nice and visible (although sometimes it just disappears, especially when moving around keeps - it stays active, you just can't see it.)

I'm a little concerned the might is... completely unhinged, especially if you're packing any boon duration at all. Looking forward to running this on a heal vindi, wish I had a reason to use it on a hybrid bruiser/heal vindi.

I think they tried to fix the power scaling with all the insane bonus dmg added this patch.

Herald 5% ---> 7% // 15% --> 20%
Herald 4x ability = 28% bonus dmg
Scepter 3 = 7%
35% so far. 

facet of strength is another 15%. You can only keep 5 upkeep at one time so you just burn this for the 15% since you get strength might from auto attacks anyway.
If we could keep more upkeep at a time then herald could max at 7 upkeep with facet and scepter but thats not possible.

Invocation gives another 20% and destruction gives another 25%.
Then bonus strike dmg on weapon. 

Thats about 2x dmg then say 2x crit means your basically doing 4x dmg if you manage it all well.

With the hammer power scaling increased its quite fun with hammer but with scepter its still quite a lot of bonus dmg. The problem is scepter is still so weak in dmg. Its a total group play button. Which is sad when the only weapon skill that uses the herald 7% bonus is scepters 3. I wish stacking all that bonus dmg was actually worth it but even when done it does nothing compared to just going renegade. Even with a huge investment to bonus dmg it just does not really do much dmg at all.

Maybe if there was a power/ferocity/healing power set but the closest is crusader but you loose stats to toughness. 
I could see this being scepter/shield with hammer to spam boons / barrier and swap for chunky ranged dmg with lifesteal combofield but the problem is when would this be used for scepter vs going centaur healing. 
Its much better to either go renegade solo or herald healing for groups. Scepter is cool. Just wish the synergy paid off more outside of just being a ventari healer.

Edited December 1, 2023 by ohericoseo.4316

[Sash.1940]

Auto-attack animation and Skill 3 really need some animation cleaning. We were testing healing output in a raid and with 2 Charr Revenants those two skills were so overwhelming with visual clutter that it became obnoctious really fast to us, players, but also teammates. We had a choise to either switch to different class or to roll Asuras. Skill 3 clutter was still there, even stronger on Asura as it was the size of whole character model but auto-attack was way more bearable.

Suggestion for Skill 3, just completely remove blue/red beam animation and let string animation change color depending on the tether. Default black-redish for Hostile target and bluish for Friendly.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

The amount you actually need to upkeep as a support herald is very minimal to get 6 pips going. I don't get how this is something people struggle with. The upkeep on the weapon actually throws a lot of wrenches in support builds on its own.

Most rotations want to use Strength and Elements for damage. Darkness is your stunbreak, and Light might be what saves you from being downed it a tough situation. Chaos, meanwhile, is a potent CC. Not saying it's common, but I can see situations where using a tether instead of a facet is desirable.

Full power DPS herald also exists, and that might well want to get to 10 pips if it can sustain it. Mind you, the overall damage on sceptre at the moment is probably too low to want to do that.

[Tobias.4975]

First i thought the AA i realy like the animation, but it get's annoying already after few minutes. It looks like you hit your target with a visualbug. Mistsword all well and good, but please not another sword. Thematically i think a whip fits the Kryptistheme much better (they are Demons no Jedi). I know you can do it better! 

Animation of skill 2 and 3 is ok.

Also the 300 range is realy nice for a melee weapon (900 for Skill 2 and 3). Maybe we can meet at the middle and give the AA a range of 450 and the two other skills 600 range for cast, so it isn't a real melee weapon, but also no real ranged weapon. Eventually it's a compromise for a few players, who wished a ranged sceptre. 1200 range for holding the link is fine. 

The idea of skill 2, to buff the damage /barrier of the skill by striking the enemy is a good new concept.

Personally i like the idea of being bound to a target, although allytarget feels very clunky, but it's ok. But 3 points upkeep is way too much for the benefits for the supportiv variant. Might and fury... For Healherald the skill is garbage, you need too much upkeep, better invest the upkeeps into better Boons.  You don't need the might + fury from sceptre. Maybe HealRenegade can shine again (only tested Herald in raids), but it lacks on regeneration. For both healers the amount of barrier is a very good enrichment.

 The dps-side of the bound feels ok, if  AA and Skill 2, would do more damage. otherwise the 3 points upkeep are there also too much in its current situation.

Harsh criticism from me, but i know you will do it.

 

 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Most rotations want to use Strength and Elements for damage. Darkness is your stunbreak, and Light might be what saves you from being downed it a tough situation. Chaos, meanwhile, is a potent CC. Not saying it's common, but I can see situations where using a tether instead of a facet is desirable.

Full power DPS herald also exists, and that might well want to get to 10 pips if it can sustain it. Mind you, the overall damage on sceptre at the moment is probably too low to want to do that.

Yea, no. Just no. First and foremost, as support chaos and light with darkness are the things you are focused on upkeeping since that will let people make mistakes. You use elements for added damage and strength to boost your damage for a burst of strength. Even ignoring the reality that most DPS builds make their own fury and supply themselves with some might, there is not a scenario on the planet that you want an upkeep of 10 ever. You can never sustain it, you will get a few attacks in and be needing to stance swap long before your legend swap is off cool down, never mind being unable to use the critical CC that Herald's wield in staff. And that's ignoring the weapon is garbage for heralds since it does nothing for them and doesn't do enough to make it worth your time on renegade or vindicator. It's one saving grace is barrier, which again is not really a saving grace and the ally target buffs are things we do passively on herald as is. The only thing you will use the tether for is the debuffing on a targeted enemy but you will be sacrificing a lot for it, since the upkeep maintenance will cost you more in utility just to be a minor condition applier when the DPS is probably doing more better already.

As DPS it becomes even more of a question of which becomes better either just going dwarf/shiro over using dragon at all with the added benefit of dwarf providing you with inspiring reinforcement. If you go dragon you are using nature, darkness and strength for your 6 upkeep and interspersing the others as needed. Using the scepter will just be a DPS loss. Tethering yourself will be a waste of time since any other build out there in the revenant toolkit will do the same thing for less energy. This weapon is not good. Not even in the best paper theory crossword puzzle. 

Best case scenario it gives healing vindis in PvP a way to supply might regularly that they don't have a great option for, but it definitely won't give them any greater options for PvE strike/raid/fractal healing. But if you are aiming at just using the shield just because of aegis I would still just suggest using a mace instead of the scepter, especially since it has no CC or boon strip on it, since our one and only method of boon strip is locked behind malyx, and even then it's so costly as to be unusable (ignoring that condition based non-core rev builds are actually hamstrung quite a bit).

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[BadSanta.6527]

legendary wepon animation !1 there is non on the sepcter please fix it 

i want my storm lightsaber 

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Feedback on Revenant Scepter

I cannot deny the support effectiveness. The barrier this chucks out and can maintain is insane. 100% see this becoming the BiS mainhand for support Revenant. I was a bit worried at first if it could compete with Mace (that gets burst heals from its blast finishers under Karakosa), but who needs heals if you can chuck out massive barriers for days?
So in that way, the goal is reached. My problem with it is more that it does not feel very engaging to me. Pop it, smack auto's, repeat. It's amazing at what it does, it just does not feel very fun doing it to me.

The DPS potential is simply not there (in case this was meant as a hybrid weapon). So if this was meant as not just pure support but as a hybrid DPS/support thing, the DPS part is not cutting it.

TL;DR: Support part works and is busted, but does not feel very engaging. DPS part, if there was meant to be one, is currently non-functional.

[aixsponsa.5179]

Hewwo: 

I appreciate the new sceptre weapon in concept, but would offer the following:

1.  Change the straight beam effect to look more whip-like. Coalescing mists essence feels more ethereal to me than a "lightsabre." A mists-whip effect lashing at your enemies/frenemies would be way cool!

2.  How know when we reach 3 or 6 stacks of "charges" with weapon skill 3? No visual cue in the Ui that I could see. The coalescing mists essence==could it shift color slightly?

I also note the real power seems great at lower threats levels, but what happens when you're toon is being pressured?

Keep going with this, I like it!

Best :-)

[GrayListen.3587]

Some quick thoughts from me:

- My initial reaction is that this weapon feels like a chore.  Revenant has always felt like weapons are your "there when you need it" and utilities are more about pip management, particularly on support/herald.  Scepter does not feel like a weapon that's there when I need it, it feels like something I have to build up to being worthwhile.  Not my favorite, though perhaps it's just in need of some tuning adjustments.

- Speaking of tuning adjustments, the #1 thing I'd like to see with this weapon is being able to generate stacks for the skill 3 tether outside of auto attacks, or adjustments to the stacks per skill.  I feel like anytime my tether is up I'm locked into just auto attacking - I'm draining more energy via the tether, and if I use my skill 2 during it almost feels like I've wasted time (and energy) when I could be auto attacking instead.  Would be nice if skill 2 also counted as a stack for skill 3 tether (not on each pulse, but at least on the initial hit).  Or perhaps the 3rd skill for the auto attack chain grants 2 stacks?  Anything to shorten or add some variation in building up those stacks.

- As other have said the pull is super weird.  Especially in game modes like WvW where stability exists in abundance, having to build up 6 stacks on skill 3's tether - in melee range, for the privilege of being able to try to pull someone seems very silly.

I don't hate the weapon, but it definitely feels like it takes over a playstyle at the moment.  Optimistic about it after some tweaks and art adjustments.

[Orion Templar.4589]

The main thing that felt off to me was that as an upkeep skill, Otherwordly Bond needs to have no cooldown.  -3 energy upkeep is pretty expensive, having the cooldown added to that seemed like too much.  Especially in PvE I felt like the playstyle feel of the scepter would be greatly improved if I could immediately bond to a new foe as soon as the current one died.

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Yea, no. Just no. First and foremost, as support chaos and light with darkness are the things you are focused on upkeeping since that will let people make mistakes. You use elements for added damage and strength to boost your damage for a burst of strength. Even ignoring the reality that most DPS builds make their own fury and supply themselves with some might, there is not a scenario on the planet that you want an upkeep of 10 ever. You can never sustain it, you will get a few attacks in and be needing to stance swap long before your legend swap is off cool down, never mind being unable to use the critical CC that Herald's wield in staff. And that's ignoring the weapon is garbage for heralds since it does nothing for them and doesn't do enough to make it worth your time on renegade or vindicator. It's one saving grace is barrier, which again is not really a saving grace and the ally target buffs are things we do passively on herald as is. The only thing you will use the tether for is the debuffing on a targeted enemy but you will be sacrificing a lot for it, since the upkeep maintenance will cost you more in utility just to be a minor condition applier when the DPS is probably doing more better already.

As DPS it becomes even more of a question of which becomes better either just going dwarf/shiro over using dragon at all with the added benefit of dwarf providing you with inspiring reinforcement. If you go dragon you are using nature, darkness and strength for your 6 upkeep and interspersing the others as needed. Using the scepter will just be a DPS loss. Tethering yourself will be a waste of time since any other build out there in the revenant toolkit will do the same thing for less energy. This weapon is not good. Not even in the best paper theory crossword puzzle. 

Best case scenario it gives healing vindis in PvP a way to supply might regularly that they don't have a great option for, but it definitely won't give them any greater options for PvE strike/raid/fractal healing. But if you are aiming at just using the shield just because of aegis I would still just suggest using a mace instead of the scepter, especially since it has no CC or boon strip on it, since our one and only method of boon strip is locked behind malyx, and even then it's so costly as to be unusable (ignoring that condition based non-core rev builds are actually hamstrung quite a bit).

Reality doesn't always agree with your 'these are the facets I'll be using to get to 6 pips'. Sometimes, an extra CC is worth losing some protection uptime, especially when it's not your only source. Sometimes you need to use light to keep yourself alive, or darkness for a stunbreak. It happens. I'm sure there are fights where you can be reasonably confident it won't happen, but when it does, I can see value in another upkeep skill as a safety valve.

Pure DPS herald would require the damage to be higher, but that's a problem with the numbers overall not the upkeep in particular. If that does happen, though, it's worth keeping in mind that the tether is an upkeep skill that's available in Dragon that's not a facet upkeep. Combine with as many facets as you can keep up and that's a big modifier.

[Matt H.6142]

I think I disliked this weapon for the same reason I dislike guardian mace.  Its support is good in theory, but it can't do as much as staff.  And they both have one skill I would probably avoid using.  Skill 3.

I think melee swipes really confuse it as a weapon, and switching to an ally target on 3 then back to an enemy for auto attacks to be rewarded with a typically undesirable teleport for barrier that's already provided by the other two skills never answers the question "why am I doing this?"

I did appreciate skill 2 and that the "blossom" isn't lost if the enemy dies though.  

It also suffers from some poor off-hand choices, and one obvious one in shield, especially with this week's patch.  I predict the self-root of shield 5 will be gone one day.  

Edit - I did find this somewhat enjoyable on a second try, and I do enjoy the autoattack, and all the blue numbers of skill 1 and 2.  I don't think it needs the teleport on the 3 still however.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Matt H.6142

[wesly.6497]

The main problem is that the scepter has skill 2 the explosion should imitate 5 targets.....it should be added to the auto attack as well as to the skill 2 additional damage depending on the legend you are in like a trident....the last chain in the auto attack should be like Mistsfire will depend on the legend you are in...then the scepter will have more opportunities like condi/suport/dps.

in wvw he is useless, but in pvp he is completely useless after nerfs...I'm a little disappointed

 

[Shadow Legend.1657]

As a rev main, Im very happy about the recent sheild buffs and this new sceptre can finally replace mace on heal herald. Overall I am quite happy with the sceptre, my main issue at the moment is with the 3 points of upkeep to use the tether. Maybe its not as much of an issue on other rev builds but Herald specifically, whether you are playing quickness or DPS herald they both require you to have 6 points of upkeep for the quick or the damage bonus. I am quite used to doing this already with glint facets and the upkeep skills on other legends (eg impossible odds) and having another 3 points of upkeep on top of that is just too much. Althrough I will say it has made it more interesting and active to try to balance this additional upkeep skill with the existing 6 points I usually use, I still think that pro would be present if the upkeep of the sceptre tether was lowered.

Especially in competitive gamemodes rev already feels quite limited to how reactive it can be because of how limited it is by its energy. You have to use the tether if youre using sceptre, its the main mechanic to get the most out of the weapon, and I really feel like it should be lowered to 2 or even 1 point of upkeep.

Im not a huge fan of the sound effects but I dont hate them either like some other people have mentioned.

Another little thing I wanted to mention is the skill 2 tooltip is a bit confusing for me, it mentions the auto attacks make it stronger but Its a bit confusing how exactly that works. Do you have to be tethered first before autoattacks start effecting skill 2? How many auto attacks should you do? Does it keep getting stronger forever? If not how many autoattacks gets it to maximum strength? Does it scale the same way as skill 3 and 6 stacks of "otherworldly charge" is the max? Its a bit vague.

Things I do like: As much as I was hoping for a solid fast casting 1200 range weapon for rev (Just dont like hammer) I was happily surprised at how unique of a concept rev sceptre is. using the sceptre as almost a handle for an energy melee weapon? how creative. I think its cool and I like the general concept. I love that it pairs perfectly with shield for heal herald. I love that it makes heal herald feel a bit more active to play instead of just staff autoattacking and keeping 6 points of upkeep. I love being able to change an effect based on if im targeting an ally or an enemy (even if its a bit clunky and new to me to try to select a specific target especially when most of the time the whole squad should be stacked on the boss) Overall I'm happy with the sceptre and I trust that a lot of these issues will be ironed out upon the official release!

[Knighthonor.4061]

Blossing Aura, how does this skill work? Seem clunky. Sometimes the barrier doesnt trigger

[ViolentMuffin.9573]

Seems ok. The tooltip for skill 3 is huuuuuge and goes over the screen (I'm on 1440x900 resolution, dunno if it contributes).

[Kaliso.9461]

After sitting with it for a few days, I can firmly say that the weapon grew on me, but never really found a niche that the Revenant couldn't already fill.

There is an unfortunate amount of clunkiness to the weapon's kit, and the visuals are no exception - but this rigidity is the only feature that provides the weapon an identity.

Does the weapon feel like a sword rather than a scepter? Yes.

Does the additional range make it feel distinct? No.

Does it feel worse than Rev Sword? Yes.

I really don't understand what the weapon is supposed to achieve. It could have an identity as a support weapon, especially as it gives the profession new ways to apply barrier and might, but these are two mechanics the class already has access to. First of all, support/ boon Herald doesn't really benefit from might gain, as it can already get to over 20 stacks on demand. Similarly, Vindicators can also generate over 20 stacks of might without issue, and can already generate barrier. In many ways, the scepter is an anti-mace: it has less mobility, no combo potential and no condi synergy, which means Renegades won't even look at the weapon. So who is this for?

From a strike damage perspective, the weapon feels better - but still not *good*. The barrier and might additions are just ok here: an added bonus to a busy rotation. Otherworldly Bond becomes a fire and forget ability that you can't actually forget because it has a maximum duration. The damage bonus could be a fun combo piece, but doesn't work with any other weapons, and the wind-up to 6 attacks is aggravating -- which brings me to the kit's main problem...

Blossoming Aura makes this weapon annoying to use. Clunky auto-attacks can be ignored as they do their own thing. Skill 3 can be switched on and ignored until its timer runs out or you need to do some defiance damage. Skill 2 however, needs constant attention and energy as the cooldown is so low -- not to mention that this is the highest energy cost skill 2 available on any Rev weapon, which also happens to be on the only Rev weapon that has an upkeep skill. This means that Heralds will be swapping out of their stance more often, Vindicators can't maintain upkeep skills or selfish buffs anywhere near as long, and Renegades still want nothing to do with it as being an Alacrity bot is just better than using the scepter skills.

For the icing on top of this egregiously long and visually cluttered red mist cake, the window for skill 2 is too short. This doesn't really present an issue if you're aiming to generate barrier for your party, but that all changes when you have to dodge something - which is almost all the time. Dodging becomes a loss of energy, DPS or survivability, if not a combination of all three. To avoid this, you would need to be very familiar with every encounter to be able to best use the skill, as there are definitely times - even in open world - where this extremely high energy cost skill feels wasted.

Overall, I think the animation needs cleaning up, the costs need rebalancing and stipulations of scepter auto-attacks have to go to make it more weapon swap-friendly.
I suggest skill 2 becomes cheaper (maybe 7 energy) with a longer fuse timer, cooldown and better healing power scaling to accomodate the less frequent barrier application, and removing skill 3's upkeep component, giving the effect a fairly lengthy set duration (10-15 seconds), facilitating faster stacking and opening up its benefits for use with other weapons -- the flip-over skill can still only be used while on scepter, as this is already an opportunity cost of switching off that weapon set.
These changes (I would hope) could allow the weapon to function more as a strike damage weapon with support features that could enhance existing support sets with additional boon generation, and enhance existing strike damage sets with increased vulnerability and damage output. It's still not got a perfect niche, but would still keep its only defining feature as an anti-mace, taking its place in a number of builds.

As an addendum, I don't dislike this as a melee weapon! But the range may as well be 130 like everything else, as it doesn't feel any different at 300. I'd be happy to move closer as it feels like an afterthought, otherwise it should see an increase to 600 or 900 range to really get the use out of ally casting skill 3.

[Phyb.6704]

I feel adding a blast finisher to skill 1's combo so it can also cleanse if you use ventari bubble would be a very nice since staff has it. You swap out the heal on staff for barrier but do not get the ability to toss cleansing bolts.

Also a water combo field on skill 2 would then also let us go between cleansing bolts and water field healing. This would help buff it for support as others could also use the water field.

blast finisher so you get area cleanse and area heal. Rather then just regeneration. Whirl could also work but throwing regen boon out with water field is kinda meh if you choose to use herald.

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by ohericoseo.4316